In the long run, the developer mentality of Crown Crates will make ESO fall apart

Quantact

I am a veteran of online gaming, and I see the same pattern with each game I play: begin with an enticing, community-friendly environment, and once the player base is there, crank up the cash incentives and eventually make the player base decline. Gambling is invariably the threshold where the decline begins.

I think the whole "MMORPG of the Year" line of thinking was because up to now, ESO WAS the best game. There's a lot of DLC and patch content constantly introduced, and the game is genuinely fun. Money and online gaming is always mixed because all people who understand things know the gaming company has to make a profit and pay the developers. Yeah, there have always been gamers raging on ESO forums about whatever, but this is actually tangible. Selling stuff for a set price, even for a period of four days, is different than this. Once you get the gambling started, it's going to progress to more and more cash-grabbing measures, partially through the regular Crown store, partially from more incentives to gamble. Gambling to me doesn't seem to be a random "improvement," it is more or less a business model which progresses from the reasonable to the unreasonable and assumes the game's eventual and permanent decline as the staff is ready to accept that escalating cash-grabbing measures will disenchant the playerbase and eventually tank the game at the cost of maximizing profits.

Putting amazing things in crates is going to alienate people who can't have the best stuff and breed permanent resentment. It's also going to alienate people who are willing to gamble but who haven't bought tons of stuff from the regular store. For example, if you consider the Soul Shriven outfits to be low-quality, and you didn't buy them, you're a tier down from the collector who chose to buy them regardless; the collector's Soul Shriven item will bounce back more Crown Points, whereas the other person will be stuck with an item he doesn't like. The collector, who spent more money to begin with, will end up with tons of Crown Points more because he buys more in the Crown Store itself. The non-collector not only doesn't get the stuff he wanted, he's stuck with stuff he considers garbage and normally wouldn't buy.

This is the threshold at which this game's philosophy stands, because if gambling is cut off, not only will lots of people be happy but also the game model will not go down the road of the likes of Maple Story and Gaia Online, which used to be genuinely fun but now exist only to scalp their remaining players of as much money as possible while the game's been driven to near-nothing. Cut the gambling, and keep the previous business model, and this game is probably going to end up very good for a very long time. Embrace the new "business model," and eventually Queen Ayrenn, High King Emeric and the Skald-King are probably going to eventually need to enter Cyrodiil themselves because all the gamers will seek greener pastures.

Sharee

Quantact wrote: »

Putting amazing things in crates is going to alienate people who can't have the best stuff and breed permanent resentment.

I think you are projecting your own feelings on others here.

For example, I can't have the best stuff (not gonna buy any crates), but it does not breed any permanent resentment in me - in fact i don't give a rat's ass about what pixels the other players' models/mounts are comprised of.

bellanca6561n

Another topic destined for early closure....

Quantact

Sharee wrote: »

Quantact wrote: »

Putting amazing things in crates is going to alienate people who can't have the best stuff and breed permanent resentment.

I think you are projecting your own feelings on others here.

For example, I can't have the best stuff (not gonna buy any crates), but it does not breed any permanent resentment in me - in fact i don't give a rat's ass about what pixels the other players' models/mounts are comprised of.

Well, you're assuming that I can't gamble and don't have all the stuff from Crown Stores. I actually do have almost all the Crown store stuff, and do have the money to gamble. I tried the 5000 crown crate, took a look at what I got, compared to what I ready with other people, and compared the model to what I've seen on other games.

For me it's mainly -- will this game exist in like 6 years? I can have all the mondo cool stuff, but I am not sure I want to be here if the people worse off end up as angry as I've seen in other places.

Hanokihs

Quantact wrote: »

For me it's mainly -- will this game exist in like 6 years? I can have all the mondo cool stuff, but I am not sure I want to be here if the people worse off end up as angry as I've seen in other places.

To be fair, the game probably won't be more than a barren wasteland in 6 years, anyway; unlike other MMOs that have managed to last for ages, ESO has The Elder Scrolls VI to contend with when it's eventually released; I've never considered this game more than a time sink until the next single-player title comes out, and my guess is that the devs feel the same way.

Let them squeeze the money out of people who want to make it rain; if this is what people want to buy, then they'll buy. If not, they won't, and the feature will get the ax or a complete overhaul. Personally, I don't care what any of the other players outside my friend circle believe; I don't talk to or otherwise interact with them. I bought enough crates to get the items I want, and now that it's done, I'll wait a few months and see what else comes down the pipe. If anything. It is what it is.

Quantact

Hanokihs wrote: »

Quantact wrote: »

For me it's mainly -- will this game exist in like 6 years? I can have all the mondo cool stuff, but I am not sure I want to be here if the people worse off end up as angry as I've seen in other places.

To be fair, the game probably won't be more than a barren wasteland in 6 years, anyway; unlike other MMOs that have managed to last for ages, ESO has The Elder Scrolls VI to contend with when it's eventually released; I've never considered this game more than a time sink until the next single-player title comes out, and my guess is that the devs feel the same way.

Let them squeeze the money out of people who want to make it rain; if this is what people want to buy, then they'll buy. If not, they won't, and the feature will get the ax or a complete overhaul. Personally, I don't care what any of the other players outside my friend circle believe; I don't talk to or otherwise interact with them. I bought enough crates to get the items I want, and now that it's done, I'll wait a few months and see what else comes down the pipe. If anything. It is what it is.

Well, I definitely see your point. Just thought it would be a happier playerbase if everybody was pleased and nobody felt resentment/left out. I hope the crates get axed and the older model persists, but realistically they probably won't do it.

Hanokihs

Quantact wrote: »

Well, I definitely see your point. Just thought it would be a happier playerbase if everybody was pleased and nobody felt resentment/left out. I hope the crates get axed and the older model persists, but realistically they probably won't do it.

Here's the deal though... I think these crates are the best way, if not the only way, for them to leak limited time items back into the store without an insane uproar from the whale demographic. I've always thought it, from the moment crates were even a genuine possibility. Notice how the Frost Mare snuck in there; the cloud senche, too. These are rare items, limited quantity, and there's nothing players get more defensive about than rare items that they don't want other people to have.

Angering players into not buying a new thing may be a shot in the foot, but potentially pissing off the people who've already proven they have cash to burn in the name of exclusivity? That's a shot in the head.

Mulgorrah

Quantact wrote: »

Putting amazing things in crates is going to alienate people who can't have the best stuff and breed permanent resentment. It's also going to alienate people who are willing to gamble but who haven't bought tons of stuff from the regular store.

This is spot on. I couldn't have said it better myself. As these crown crates have come out and I tried with 8 of them, and didn't get what I wanted (actually got crap, just as you described), I'm already feeling very resentful. I'm not going to spend more money and I'm considering cancelling my ESO plus membership. I actually feel like playing less since these crown crates have come out. It's just a dirty way for them to exploit people for their money. They'll see a large boost in profits and then it'll plummet, along with people's respect and appreciation for the game and the company.

JKorr

Hanokihs wrote: »

Quantact wrote: »

Well, I definitely see your point. Just thought it would be a happier playerbase if everybody was pleased and nobody felt resentment/left out. I hope the crates get axed and the older model persists, but realistically they probably won't do it.

Here's the deal though... I think these crates are the best way, if not the only way, for them to leak limited time items back into the store without an insane uproar from the whale demographic. I've always thought it, from the moment crates were even a genuine possibility. Notice how the Frost Mare snuck in there; the cloud senche, too. These are rare items, limited quantity, and there's nothing players get more defensive about than rare items that they don't want other people to have.

Angering players into not buying a new thing may be a shot in the foot, but potentially pissing off the people who've already proven they have cash to burn in the name of exclusivity? That's a shot in the head.

Way back when they came out with the first "limited time" items, they did say there was a good chance the items would return to the store at some point. This statement came after a lot of complaints that people either missed the sale/couldn't get the crowns in time/were out of town/ whatever.

The only item they said would never be in the store or available for purchase at all was the tiger senche loyalty mount.

LucidxNightmare

Mulgorrah wrote: »

Quantact wrote: »

Putting amazing things in crates is going to alienate people who can't have the best stuff and breed permanent resentment. It's also going to alienate people who are willing to gamble but who haven't bought tons of stuff from the regular store.

It's just a dirty way for them to exploit people for their money.

No one is forcing you to buy these. If you get hosed on it it's your own fault. I just bought twelve because of the uproar and wanted to test it first hand. I got way more than I paid for even excluding the atro guar mount I got or the consumables I exchanged for gems. I said it in another thread, personally I don't care if they stay or go I wish they would fix all the technical issues in the game instead of adding cosmetics or even housing.

Mojmir

MMORPG of year because there's hardly any competition atm. History will repeat and the game will be a f2p clone. Defend all you want,"oh it's different this time". Same as the others,can't wait to move on.

threefarms

No free napkins

Kronz

I haven't bought any crates yet(n probably wont) but I have no problem with other players are doing it if they aren't getting anything that will give them an in game edge. If you want a mount or pet or w.e bad enough to buy a ton of crates knowing there's no guarantee it will drop that's on you. That has no effect on me. Now if some people got gear upgrades better then what I could earn then yeah I would have a problem with it.

Also most games that invoke this type of thing and fail as an MMO is bc they were gonna fail anyway. I don't know of any game that let you "gamble" on appearance upgrades and failed bc of that specifically.

If ZOS makes more money bc people want to gamble on things that do not give competitive advantage then that can only help me as a player of ESO as they will have more money to further develop the game. I am not saying they will use it for such but I surely don't see it as a negative.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but this is mine.

Stopnaggin

Hanokihs wrote: »

Quantact wrote: »

Well, I definitely see your point. Just thought it would be a happier playerbase if everybody was pleased and nobody felt resentment/left out. I hope the crates get axed and the older model persists, but realistically they probably won't do it.

Here's the deal though... I think these crates are the best way, if not the only way, for them to leak limited time items back into the store without an insane uproar from the whale demographic. I've always thought it, from the moment crates were even a genuine possibility. Notice how the Frost Mare snuck in there; the cloud senche, too. These are rare items, limited quantity, and there's nothing players get more defensive about than rare items that they don't want other people to have.

Angering players into not buying a new thing may be a shot in the foot, but potentially pissing off the people who've already proven they have cash to burn in the name of exclusivity? That's a shot in the head.

But those 2 mounts were not labeled rare, they were labeled limited time. There were no limited quantities, you had the crowns you bought one. I have the clouded senche and the dro mathra senche. I don't care how many of them are out there. As far as I remember there wasn't anything offered in limited quantity, just time.

People should realize the difference, just because McDonald's release the McRib every so often doesn't mean it was limited quantity.

Palidon

The Crown Crates are a money making scheme on the part of ZOS and a lot of players are falling for it. ZOS knows that players after buying the first few crates and not getting what they wanted will buy more and more. Heck you would get better odds gambling in Vegas.

Stridig

Crown crates have not affected the game for me at all. I haven't purchased a single one and all my characters are still competitive.

Stovahkiin

I don't necessarily like crown crates either, but I think people need to calm down. There have been other games that implemented them and lasted for years after that, SWTOR comes to mind in that regard. And you guys act like Zeni is the first company to do this ever, when really they're just following a business tact that has been proven to give them more revenue (if you didn't know, businesses usually like to make money)

Stopnaggin

Stovahkiin wrote: »

I don't necessarily like crown crates either, but I think people need to calm down. There have been other games that implemented them and lasted for years after that, SWTOR comes to mind in that regard. And you guys act like Zeni is the first company to do this ever, when really they're just following a business tact that has been proven to give them more revenue (if you didn't know, businesses usually like to make money)

Yes a business needs to make money, that's a tired old argument. I gladly hand over money for things that I feel have enough value. I have tried the crown crates, wasn't all that great. While the monetary value may have been equal to what I recieved, it was not items that I would normally buy.

I sub every month, I have purchased plenty from the Crown store in the way of mounts, riding lesson, motifs and costumes. I purchase crowns when on sale, as of now there is nothing worth purchasing. While other games have implemented the same sort of system to gain revenue and survived, that's not to say it's above board. Lots of businesses have shady practices that work.

My biggest complaint with the crates is the ROI, spend 40 dollars and get a bunch of stuff that isn't of any value to me, and after trading those in on gems, not enough to buy what I would normally have paid straight out cash for.

Skirting the gambling laws is akin to rich people skirting the tax code. While you aren't buying Crown crates directly you are still gambling. You have to purchase crowns with rlm then spend that digital currency to gamble.

Stovahkiin

Well, I know some people get sensitive about this point too but it's true nonetheless... you know you don't have to buy them? I don't plan on buying them, but I'm not begrudging those who do.

dodgehopper_ESO

Hanokihs wrote: »

Quantact wrote: »

For me it's mainly -- will this game exist in like 6 years? I can have all the mondo cool stuff, but I am not sure I want to be here if the people worse off end up as angry as I've seen in other places.

To be fair, the game probably won't be more than a barren wasteland in 6 years, anyway; unlike other MMOs that have managed to last for ages, ESO has The Elder Scrolls VI to contend with when it's eventually released; I've never considered this game more than a time sink until the next single-player title comes out, and my guess is that the devs feel the same way.

Let them squeeze the money out of people who want to make it rain; if this is what people want to buy, then they'll buy. If not, they won't, and the feature will get the ax or a complete overhaul. Personally, I don't care what any of the other players outside my friend circle believe; I don't talk to or otherwise interact with them. I bought enough crates to get the items I want, and now that it's done, I'll wait a few months and see what else comes down the pipe. If anything. It is what it is.

This is an awfully cynical point of view. In many ways they play off of one another. Imagine that some players might take a break from ESO to play TES 6, and they might then go back to ESO, then back Morrowind. I don't think any of this makes Crown packs a great idea, nor does it address the complaint. I'm one of those players who finds the gambling mechanic distasteful, and it is a large reason I lost heart with SWTOR. Its a great way of sucking hard earned cash from people, offering very little in return. It is despicable. I really wish they'd go back to a better model.

Stopnaggin

Stovahkiin wrote: »

Well, I know some people get sensitive about this point too but it's true nonetheless... you know you don't have to buy them? I don't plan on buying them, but I'm not begrudging those who do.

I agree they don't have to buy them. And as of now I don't see the point. The reward at least for me, isnt enough. I tried it, didn't like it, easy enough for me to say nope. My entire point to these has been and will continue to be, not enough return on my investment. I'm not one of those that is going full blown panic, I'm not quitting or anything like that. I do find it a bit underhanded for a business practice. But they aren't the first nor probably the last. In the end its their decision to do what they want.

I have said before and again, that they would have been recieved better if the gem rates were adjusted. It would at least be more palatable for some players. It's not P2W so I dismiss those arguments. What I really really hope is that they use the extra income to actually improve the game. Not just pay some exec some super high bonus and not fix the known issues and such. Maybe get some better servers, more coders to help fix issues. Some actual quality control would be nice as well, seen them push updates out knowing there were problems. But that's a whole topic unto itself.

Hanokihs

Stopnaggin wrote: »

But those 2 mounts were not labeled rare, they were labeled limited time. There were no limited quantities, you had the crowns you bought one. I have the clouded senche and the dro mathra senche. I don't care how many of them are out there. As far as I remember there wasn't anything offered in limited quantity, just time.

People should realize the difference, just because McDonald's release the McRib every so often doesn't mean it was limited quantity.

I agree, 100%. Just the same, there are people in every thread about bringing limited items back for another rotation who hate the idea. Money talks, and they've already bought ZOS's ear.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Hanokihs wrote: »

Quantact wrote: »

For me it's mainly -- will this game exist in like 6 years? I can have all the mondo cool stuff, but I am not sure I want to be here if the people worse off end up as angry as I've seen in other places.

To be fair, the game probably won't be more than a barren wasteland in 6 years, anyway; unlike other MMOs that have managed to last for ages, ESO has The Elder Scrolls VI to contend with when it's eventually released; I've never considered this game more than a time sink until the next single-player title comes out, and my guess is that the devs feel the same way.

This is an awfully cynical point of view. In many ways they play off of one another. Imagine that some players might take a break from ESO to play TES 6, and they might then go back to ESO, then back Morrowind. I don't think any of this makes Crown packs a great idea, nor does it address the complaint. I'm one of those players who finds the gambling mechanic distasteful, and it is a large reason I lost heart with SWTOR. Its a great way of sucking hard earned cash from people, offering very little in return. It is despicable. I really wish they'd go back to a better model.

Emphasis mine - and I addressed the complaint just fine. OP is/was worried that these types of practices will alienate large swaths of the playerbase, thus making them quit. My view is that a good number of players are just playing this because it has "Elder Scrolls" written on it, and because this is where their friends are. When everyone runs off to play Skyrim II or whatever Bethesda comes out with, this game will be largely forgotten for most of the players - many won't return. That's the nature of a franchise: most people want the new shiny thing, not the old one. Cynical, but true; when was the last time Daggerfall was a big hit, and how many people even know about Arena?

Anyway, Crown Crates aren't really for the average player. I see where you're coming from on the not getting enough bang for your buck front, but think of it from the perspective of a player who already buys pretty much everything. Someone started a thread about spending a couple hundred bucks to max their rewards, and noted that the exchange rate got better once they filled in the missing items. Imagine starting out with 90% of the items filled in and getting only gems/exclusives as a reward. You'd think the complainers were just insanely unlucky or insanely greedy.

JWKe

One thing great about ESO is it's originality. I really really really dislike how ZO$ is just copying and pasting other games now with the RnG clown crates.

Stopnaggin

Hanokihs wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

But those 2 mounts were not labeled rare, they were labeled limited time. There were no limited quantities, you had the crowns you bought one. I have the clouded senche and the dro mathra senche. I don't care how many of them are out there. As far as I remember there wasn't anything offered in limited quantity, just time.

People should realize the difference, just because McDonald's release the McRib every so often doesn't mean it was limited quantity.

I agree, 100%. Just the same, there are people in every thread about bringing limited items back for another rotation who hate the idea. Money talks, and they've already bought ZOS's ear.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Hanokihs wrote: »

Quantact wrote: »

For me it's mainly -- will this game exist in like 6 years? I can have all the mondo cool stuff, but I am not sure I want to be here if the people worse off end up as angry as I've seen in other places.

To be fair, the game probably won't be more than a barren wasteland in 6 years, anyway; unlike other MMOs that have managed to last for ages, ESO has The Elder Scrolls VI to contend with when it's eventually released; I've never considered this game more than a time sink until the next single-player title comes out, and my guess is that the devs feel the same way.

This is an awfully cynical point of view. In many ways they play off of one another. Imagine that some players might take a break from ESO to play TES 6, and they might then go back to ESO, then back Morrowind. I don't think any of this makes Crown packs a great idea, nor does it address the complaint. I'm one of those players who finds the gambling mechanic distasteful, and it is a large reason I lost heart with SWTOR. Its a great way of sucking hard earned cash from people, offering very little in return. It is despicable. I really wish they'd go back to a better model.

Emphasis mine - and I addressed the complaint just fine. OP is/was worried that these types of practices will alienate large swaths of the playerbase, thus making them quit. My view is that a good number of players are just playing this because it has "Elder Scrolls" written on it, and because this is where their friends are. When everyone runs off to play Skyrim II or whatever Bethesda comes out with, this game will be largely forgotten for most of the players - many won't return. That's the nature of a franchise: most people want the new shiny thing, not the old one. Cynical, but true; when was the last time Daggerfall was a big hit, and how many people even know about Arena?

Anyway, Crown Crates aren't really for the average player. I see where you're coming from on the not getting enough bang for your buck front, but think of it from the perspective of a player who already buys pretty much everything. Someone started a thread about spending a couple hundred bucks to max their rewards, and noted that the exchange rate got better once they filled in the missing items. Imagine starting out with 90% of the items filled in and getting only gems/exclusives as a reward. You'd think the complainers were just insanely unlucky or insanely greedy.

The exchange rate didn't get better though. It because he already had certain item already. I mean if he/she doesn't understand the difference, kinda feel sorry for them.

DHale

As long as the stuff in the crates is cosmetic I am fine with it. To think I need a mount skin that goes no faster than any other mount is cray cray. The day it goes non cosmetic.... on to the five games I have been sitting on.

Hanokihs

Stopnaggin wrote: »

*snip*

The exchange rate didn't get better though. It because he already had certain item already. I mean if he/she doesn't understand the difference, kinda feel sorry for them.

It's a matter of perspective. If you look at the hard numbers, no; you still pulled the same tickets out of the RNG, except now, some of them are just duplicates. On the other hand, it depends on what those duplicate tickets are worth. Say you only want one apex mount: the lightning tiger. You're not allowed to buy it outright, so you have to roll for it. It is what it is; those are the facts and we're not gonna dwell on them for the sake of this example.

If you roll a lightning camel and some other things you don't care about, you've technically lost money, but consider the next roll. If you get the lightning guar on roll 2, you've technically lost. If you get a second camel, you've actually come out a bit ahead; the gems can be put toward the item you're actually shooting for. If you get the senche, it's game over and you can go home victorious. But every duplicate, even the ones you don't care about, are a step toward the ultimate goal.

...If you have the money to throw away on this stuff. Some do, and some don't. Those who do are usually the ones who've got all the previous items being recycled, unless they choose to abstain from the crates completely. This gives them an edge, because they can get gems immediately, instead of no return on a useless item.

Pops_ND_Irish

If I want to, ill buy crates, mounts, etc
If I do not want to, I wont

My money , my decision. Why blame anybody else for what I do with my money ?
I know what i'm in for when I buy

Nerouyn

Quantact wrote: »

Gambling is invariably the threshold where the decline begins.

World of Warcraft was built on gambling. From day one. Didn't hurt them in the slightest. They sold trading card packs which could include cards which granted you exotic in-game mounts which you couldn't acquire by any other means.

I dislike gambling and the crown crates in particular. I think games where the keys to unlock them and also the prizes can be purchased with in-game currency are better (eg. Guild Wars 2). But gambling is a revenue stream ESO's competitors are using and I don't fault them for trying their hand at it.

Though personally I think it should be illegal because children can and do play MMOs. If adults want to gamble that is their prerogative but there are ample opportunities to do so outside of MMOs.

Stopnaggin

Hanokihs wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

*snip*

The exchange rate didn't get better though. It because he already had certain item already. I mean if he/she doesn't understand the difference, kinda feel sorry for them.

It's a matter of perspective. If you look at the hard numbers, no; you still pulled the same tickets out of the RNG, except now, some of them are just duplicates. On the other hand, it depends on what those duplicate tickets are worth. Say you only want one apex mount: the lightning tiger. You're not allowed to buy it outright, so you have to roll for it. It is what it is; those are the facts and we're not gonna dwell on them for the sake of this example.

If you roll a lightning camel and some other things you don't care about, you've technically lost money, but consider the next roll. If you get the lightning guar on roll 2, you've technically lost. If you get a second camel, you've actually come out a bit ahead; the gems can be put toward the item you're actually shooting for. If you get the senche, it's game over and you can go home victorious. But every duplicate, even the ones you don't care about, are a step toward the ultimate goal.

...If you have the money to throw away on this stuff. Some do, and some don't. Those who do are usually the ones who've got all the previous items being recycled, unless they choose to abstain from the crates completely. This gives them an edge, because they can get gems immediately, instead of no return on a useless item.

I'm not defending crown crates. What I meant in my statement was about the item vs crown gem. The more items you have the more chance of a duplicate, which can then be traded for the crown gems. So the exchange rate has not changed at all, what has changed is the chance of a duplicate. The amount of gems never changed, you dont get more gem per piece for every duplicate.

Hanokihs

Stopnaggin wrote: »

I'm not defending crown crates. What I meant in my statement was about the item vs crown gem. The more items you have the more chance of a duplicate, which can then be traded for the crown gems. So the exchange rate has not changed at all, what has changed is the chance of a duplicate. The amount of gems never changed, you dont get more gem per piece for every duplicate.

Aah, I see. I should have better phrased exchange rate as "rate of return," as should anyone else making the same argument. The crates and items have a flat value, but the more crates you invest in, the more your chances of a worthwhile return increase. I wasn't really paying enough attention to the semantics of the whole issue.

For the record, I don't defend the crates either - not for the average player, anyway. Some are opposed to the gambling aspect in general, especially at these low odds, but I don't mind that part too much. I can definitely say that I'm annoyed it's such a massive ripoff to people who aren't hardcore collectors; I wish they'd make more themes and release them more frequently than the quarterly plan they seem to be going with. Lower prices and higher chances per item wouldn't hurt so much in that case, because if the rewards are shifting regularly, those who buy into the system will never have "a reason" to stop fishing for items they want.

Berret

Gambling has always been in MMOs, except with the way ZOS handled it it's just optional cosmetics stuff that you can gamble for. If it was stuff like end game armor, or entire skill lines/classes behind the crown crates then yeah I'll see what the issue is.

At least it's not lockboxes, boxes that drop from mobs that you can't open until you buy the key with actual money and even then you can just get trash from it.