OPEN LETTER TO ZOS: Crown Crates

dimensional

Hi ZOS! I appreciate you taking the time to read this post, as I am sure this will express a sentiment shared by *many* of your players. First of all, I want to take a moment to praise you all for the hard work you're continuing to put in towards this great game. Many of us are extremely passionate about ESO and even more, for some of us it is the only game we play. I love all of the new content you guys have been putting out every year, and to all of the unsung heroes in the QA department, community management and other areas that don't get shown a lot of love, I want to say thank you for everything you do.

Over the past few years I've been playing this game I have seen it grow from something that wasn't quite as great as the potential it offered, to a legit contender to one of the best MMOs ever created. And you guys and gals have not let up! This excellent rate of progress has been met with some speed bumps and set backs, sure, but we fans here know the reality of game development and are more than happy to persevere through the relatively rare and short bad times to see the good.

You have just now added the crown crates to the store, which have been previewed and tested for several months now. They offer all sorts of desirable rewards, a fun chance to get something of great value in exchange for a little gamble. On the surface, there's really nothing wrong with this. These kind of RNG crates have been implemented in other games and met with varying degrees of success both in monetary terms for the business, and satisfaction levels for the players. Your new experiment may prove to be one of the better attempts at this monetization method, or it might be a disaster. Clearly only time can tell.

I speak for myself and hopefully, I think, for many others that as it is currently implemented, these crown crates leave much to be desired. The actual RNG drop rates per item would not be much of an issue if you simply paid closer attention to one aspect; crown gems. Right now, you need to purchase an *absurd* amount of crates just to convert enough items into gems to be able to get any of the apex rewards. I would like to assume you folks have done all the relevant calculations and maths necessary to understand what I am talking about here. Sure, there might be outliers due to the RNG function of these crates, but as a whole, things don't look good.

I am proposing a simple solution for the short-term until you have figured out a better way to make purchasing crates a consistently valuable choice for players to make. I think the problem is in the current crown gem costs for all of the items. Myself and many others have no problem taking a gamble at something as long as there is a measured payoff in the end. For the people who get lucky and achieve success from just opening a few crates, that's absolutely great and I feel happy for them. But after running the simulations and various worst case scenarios (many of which have already happened to several players), I simply can not see the justification in having to spend an exorbitant amount of money just to get the right amount of crown gems to purchase the highest tier reward. This particular interaction of your crown crate system should be thoroughly overhauled in my humble opinion to allow for more fairness from a paying customer's perspective.

Now I know about the economics of micro-transactions. You're banking on the 1% "whales" as they are known, people who spend massive amounts of money on your game and actually are themselves the bulk of the entire revenue for your service. This is entirely fine. You should know that I *am* one of those whales, and there are many others on this forum, who are very unhappy with these crates. I personally can not justify buying any of them as they are right now, and I'm the type of person that actually would purchase $100 dollars' worth in a day just to see what I get. Please carefully consider what I have written here, it would be a great show of faith to your current players if you can see the wisdom in my words.

Thanks for your time!

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_GaryA
@ZOS_KaiSchober
@ZOS_TristanK
@ZOS_RichLambert
@ZOS_MattFiror

JD2013

This topic has been gone over and over with a fine tooth comb until the carcass is picked clean. There's really nothing left to say as it's just going around in circles.

The only thing left to do would be to allow people to buy crown gems and to buy everything except the top tier special mounts. But they won't. I'm disappointed that the Chub Loon pet is in the crates but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ it's just cosmetics that I don't need. And that's all they are. Cosmetics and pixels for a game who one day will shut their servers and none of it will exist.

dimensional

You're woefully missing the point of the post. Everyone that plays this game already knows they are cosmetics for a game that will eventually cease to exist, that's just a tautology that literally no one needs or wants to hear right now. Feel free to speak about the points I raised in my post though, if you have anything to add other than a tired "oh this has been talked about". Yes, we can see all of the threads, we know.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

"Open Letter" = TLDR from an English major

dimensional

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

"Open Letter" = TLDR from an English major

No, not really. It's pretty short and only takes 3 minutes to read. It's also very poignant and relevant for both the company and the players.

Katahdin

Appreciate the effort but it will fall on deaf ears.
Crown crates are here to stay.
If you buy them, prepare to get the short end of the stick.

dimensional

Katahdin wrote: »

Appreciate the effort but it will fall on deaf ears.
Crown crates are here to stay.
If you buy them, prepare to get the short end of the stick.

I literally never suggested them to remove the crates, read the post again. Also, your assessment that it will fall on deaf ears is without merit, I've personally made posts on this forum directed to ZOS themselves about changes I'd like to see, and got an answer from company representatives confirming the change I asked for. If no one dares to speak out, nothing will happen. You can support this sentiment with positive encouragement or do what you're doing now, which isn't that helpful... Thanks for replying though.

idk

TL;dr

Dead horse. Didn't read because of length and it's probably nothing new/unique.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

dimensional wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

"Open Letter" = TLDR from an English major

No, not really. It's pretty short and only takes 3 minutes to read. It's also very poignant and relevant for both the company and the players.

3 minutes is an eternity in the Twitterverse. Be consise or most readers will just go words-words blah.

dimensional

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

TL;dr

Dead horse. Didn't read because of length and it's probably nothing new/unique.

You're just brimming with confidence and positivity. An exemplary member of our fine community. I wish we all cared as much as you about this game, it would certainly be better because of it. Thanks so much for all of your encouraging interactions and support!

dimensional

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

dimensional wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

"Open Letter" = TLDR from an English major

No, not really. It's pretty short and only takes 3 minutes to read. It's also very poignant and relevant for both the company and the players.

3 minutes is an eternity in the Twitterverse. Be consise or most readers will just go words-words blah.

The entire point of a post like this that is addressed to the company is to be as thorough as possible with the general sentiment one is trying to express. Being concise would defeat the purpose, and this isn't twitter so 3 minutes is not long at all. You've never sat in a thread and read posts for more than 3 minutes on here? Obviously you have.

wayfarerx

dimensional wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Appreciate the effort but it will fall on deaf ears.
Crown crates are here to stay.
If you buy them, prepare to get the short end of the stick.

I literally never suggested them to remove the crates, read the post again. Also, your assessment that it will fall on deaf ears is without merit, I've personally made posts on this forum directed to ZOS themselves about changes I'd like to see, and got an answer from company representatives confirming the change I asked for. If no one dares to speak out, nothing will happen. You can support this sentiment with positive encouragement or do what you're doing now, which isn't that helpful... Thanks for replying though.

While I appreciate what you are trying to do here, I think you'll find that most of the anti-crown-crate crowd is pretty discouraged this morning. We filled hundreds of pages with comments about how these crates could be made more consumer friendly or equitable and ZOS ignored every last one of us.

So best of luck to you, but I'm done with this fight.

Rouven

(...)I simply can not see the justification in having to spend an exorbitant amount of money just to get the right amount of crown gems to purchase the highest tier reward. This particular interaction of your crown crate system should be thoroughly overhauled in my humble opinion to allow for more fairness from a paying customer's perspective.

Now I know about the economics of micro-transactions. You're banking on the 1% "whales" as they are known, people who spend massive amounts of money on your game and actually are themselves the bulk of the entire revenue for your service. This is entirely fine. You should know that I *am* one of those whales(...)

The bold parts do not work together for me. I always thought the whale is happy to spend thousands of dollars on something that hardly anyone else will be able to get exactly because of the RNG.

That's my understanding anyways, not sure if there is such a thing as an official definition.

dimensional

I was one of those same people, don't get me wrong. The only thing one can do is be positive and constructive. Even though I may not affect any change at all, throwing tantrums or ignoring it is certainly a way to ensure nothing will happen. Thanks for posting!

dimensional

Rouven wrote: »

(...)I simply can not see the justification in having to spend an exorbitant amount of money just to get the right amount of crown gems to purchase the highest tier reward. This particular interaction of your crown crate system should be thoroughly overhauled in my humble opinion to allow for more fairness from a paying customer's perspective.

Now I know about the economics of micro-transactions. You're banking on the 1% "whales" as they are known, people who spend massive amounts of money on your game and actually are themselves the bulk of the entire revenue for your service. This is entirely fine. You should know that I *am* one of those whales(...)

The bold parts do not work together for me. I always thought the whale is happy to spend thousands of dollars on something that hardly anyone else will be able to get exactly because of the RNG.

That's my understanding anyways, not sure if there is such a thing as an official definition.

No, a whale is just someone who spends a lot of money on a product or service relative to the rest of the paying consumer base. That's all.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

I took the time to read it. I'll give you credit for being polite, but there is nothing about this that ZOS needs to make fair. Nothing about this that they need to make equal out over a long period of time.

They know that you know that it's a bad investment. They know that you could plunk down 1000 crowns for the fire breathing horse mount of doom right now but ... most people won't.

Meanwhile ... many people will see a 0.0004% chance of getting that super sweet mount at half price and know they are the one who is gonna get it because gambling is fun.

Then, when they don't ... they will do it again ... and again ... and again ... until they have just spent $135 on a $10 item. But man was it a rush doing it!

Meanwhile you, or someone like you, me possibly, just paid for a ZOS employee's health insurance that month.

All that matters in business is making your company as much money as you can make it, or by helping someone else at your company do it by adding a smile while you're getting ram rodded. It's actually quite a great plan by them.

Also, Pacrooti.

Rouven

dimensional wrote: »

Rouven wrote: »

(...)I simply can not see the justification in having to spend an exorbitant amount of money just to get the right amount of crown gems to purchase the highest tier reward. This particular interaction of your crown crate system should be thoroughly overhauled in my humble opinion to allow for more fairness from a paying customer's perspective.

Now I know about the economics of micro-transactions. You're banking on the 1% "whales" as they are known, people who spend massive amounts of money on your game and actually are themselves the bulk of the entire revenue for your service. This is entirely fine. You should know that I *am* one of those whales(...)

The bold parts do not work together for me. I always thought the whale is happy to spend thousands of dollars on something that hardly anyone else will be able to get exactly because of the RNG.

That's my understanding anyways, not sure if there is such a thing as an official definition.

No, a whale is just someone who spends a lot of money on a product or service relative to the rest of the paying consumer base. That's all.

Ah ok, fair enough.

In any case I won't spend any hard cash on them.

I liked how Path of Exile handled their boxes, 99% of what was in the box would be released a few months after. So if I liked the armour set or pet that came out I did get a few boxes and then I could get the rest in the store later. Never felt "pressured" to buy more boxes - was overall a good experience. Not the most fair comparison though because their model is different.

dimensional

There's nothing wrong with trying to be constructive and having a voice for change. Like I said before, I have literally made a post like this in the past and it was actually met with an official response AND action by the company. So to state that it won't do any good is just simply not true. We don't know. The only way we will is if we try.

anitajoneb17_ESO

dimensional wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with trying to be constructive and having a voice for change. Like I said before, I have literally made a post like this in the past and it was actually met with an official response AND action by the company. So to state that it won't do any good is just simply not true. We don't know. The only way we will is if we try.

There are two problems with your post though...

- You are by far not the first nor the only one to express those opinions ;
- You're argumentation revolves around the fact that crown crates should be "fair". But crown crates are a lottery system, and every lottery system is based around the logic that some win more than others, via pure luck. It's got nothing to do with value/money. What people buy when they buy a crate (or a lottery ticket) is a thrill and/or a hope. Until it's converted into either nothing or a little or a lot. If it was "fair" or "guaranteed value" that thrill would be gone, it would be a standard purchase (maybe with some sort of surprise element in it).

Besides, look at how many people run around ingame with crown crate items already. They love it. There's no reasoning against that.

Don't like crown crates ? Just ignore them. Problem solved.

leipatemeibbaa

You did use the word "gamble" but also mentioned that "at something as long as there is a measured payoff in the end".

I don't think you understand the meaning of gamble. I don't think any casino pay you off by the end. If you can't afford to lose then don't gamble at all.

dimensional

No one said I was the first, nor does it have any bearing on posting what I did in the first place. More voices to the choir is always a good thing.

Even lottery systems can be fair, and it has *everything* to do with perceived value/money. Casinos wouldn't be in business if people didn't think they could win.

Anyway, you completely missed the entire point of my post if you think I don't like them. I addressed one very specific aspect of the system and offered constructive criticism, something you're supposed to do on an official forum for a game.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

The problem is that many, MANY, video game companies do this and will continue to do it until pressured by Congress to stop.

How many of you have played FIFA Ultimate team, spent $100 on cards and never sniffed a Messi or Ronaldo? It's the same thing. ZOS ain't the first to do it, and certainly will not be the last. What they have done is totally within their industry standards. It is up to you to know when to say when. I always give myself a $20 Ultimate team budget and stick to it. You're gonna have to do the same.

dimensional

leipatemeibbaa wrote: »

You did use the word "gamble" but also mentioned that "at something as long as there is a measured payoff in the end".

I don't think you understand the meaning of gamble. I don't think any casino pay you off by the end. If you can't afford to lose then don't gamble at all.

That's missing the point. the payoff of every gamble can be measured, which is why it's called a "gamble" in the first place. I'm arguing for a more positive payoff. It's really that simple.

ArrerBoy

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Don't like crown crates ? Just ignore them. Problem solved.

Yes! Finally! Speak with your wallet! If you don't like, don't buy! Don't keep complaining while swallowing up crates. That just sends the message "I dun like it but I still buy it cuz I smart!"

leipatemeibbaa

All I see is a crying baby who didn't get what he wants.

dimensional

ArrerBoy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Don't like crown crates ? Just ignore them. Problem solved.

Yes! Finally! Speak with your wallet! If you don't like, don't buy! Don't keep complaining while swallowing up crates. That just sends the message "I dun like it but I still buy it cuz I smart!"

So no one should ever offer constructive criticism about anything ever, just either ignore it or not. Got it. Seems like an excellent way to improve the games you love playing.

mb10

too late now lol

most people on the forums are "experimenting with RNG" and buying loads of crates. Same people running around in atronach mounts and posting on here how bad of an idea it is lmao

ArrerBoy

dimensional wrote: »

So no one should ever offer constructive criticism about anything ever, just either ignore it or not. Got it. Seems like an excellent way to improve the games you love playing.

Way to totally miss the point of my post.

dimensional

mb10 wrote: »

too late now lol

most people on the forums are "experimenting with RNG" and buying loads of crates. Same people running around in atronach mounts and posting on here how bad of an idea it is lmao

Nothing is too late. Changes can be implemented at literally any time and there are multiple examples of it already happening due to posts on this forum, including one I was personally involved in. Only a defeatist attitude will ensure nothing changes.

dimensional

ArrerBoy wrote: »

dimensional wrote: »

So no one should ever offer constructive criticism about anything ever, just either ignore it or not. Got it. Seems like an excellent way to improve the games you love playing.

Way to totally miss the point of my post.

More like you missed the point of mine. If you read my post, I clearly already stated I will be voting with my wallet so why were you even offering that up as a relevant statement? It is understood already. This is for ZOS.

ArrerBoy

dimensional wrote: »

More like you missed the point of mine.

You said

dimensional wrote: »

So no one should ever offer constructive criticism about anything ever.

In response to

ArrerBoy wrote: »

Don't keep complaining while swallowing up crates.

Doesn't take a genius to connect the dots.