Is Infernal Guardian actually bugged?

Waffennacht

Well after many duels, if I ward while they are cloaking or if they cloak while mortars are being sent, they have the potential of pulling a NB outta stealth, however if my opponent is already cloaked/stealthed prior to me casting ward IG will not go off... (duels experience only mind you)

Then the whole LoS thing... It's a MORTAR aka, GOES OVER walls, goes over trees and rocks. The ONLY los that makes since to me is going into a building... but even then there are windows and doors... a good mortar team could put one right through a window.

Imo IG is hardly bugged, I have not seen a previously cloaked or stealthed opponent (never combat engaged) be brought outta stealth etc from it. And LoS, imo, deserves to die a horrible horrible flame induced mortar death. - Edit: In duels - open world LoS is completely understandable, but if you're gonna LoS why did you even offer to duel?

Minalan

I use the set. It's fun. However it is very very broken.

1. The proc rate isn't balanced by any means whatsoever.

2. It ignores LOS and goes through walls and ceilings. I don't care that it flies over rocks that Stamina users are humping as hard as they can. It's a mortar round and it's supposed to fly up and over an obstacle.

3. In open Cyrodiil PVP so long as you're in combat it seeks cloaked players. I don't care much because cloaked players are one shotting people and it's ridiculous. They have one counter for a light armor magicka user and you bet your backside that I'm using it.

Waffennacht

1. Isn't a bug and with 50% chance it actually equals the same as a proc via attack, aka ward is a dps loss while melee is a dps gain... the two are very close to average dps because of the proc rate.
2. Again mortars can go into buildings (however how can ZoS differentiate between a wall with a door and stupid rock that somehow prevents MAGIC from hitting them?)
3. Closest thing to a bug, though I've yet to see it, in clip or while playing. Im still very suspicious that these players were not at all in combat (didn't engage or get spotted first?) This maybe an actual bug.

But that's my point. I don't see it was all that "bugged"maybe in one way people think of it. But the rock or tree or wall should not stop a freakin mortar

joe.smith21b14_ESO

I don't care how broken this set is with the crappy mechanics it has the main thing I don't like about it is the red ring breaks stealth not the actual mortar. If they would just change that you can keep the rest of the cheese that comes with it.

Waffennacht

joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »

I don't care how broken this set is with the crappy mechanics it has the main thing I don't like about it is the red ring breaks stealth not the actual mortar. If they would just change that you can keep the rest of the cheese that comes with it.

It's less cheesy than ANY proc set (see again, using ward dps loss, using attack dps gain) and not to mention you can actually counter this proc, unlike Tremorscale or Viper or Widowmaker or Red Mountain or Vicecannon or EVEN Skoria

The red circles as in the telegraph or as in the impact? I have only seen the impact bring NBs outta stealth

Isellskooma

The set is just another thing in a Zergs toolkit to zerg Nbs/ppl down.

Stoopid_Nwah

I have indeed been pulled out of stealth from it (I was not in combat at all, nor was I even in combat previous to being hit). I'll take videos for you the next time it happens. Also, the second the red ring appears I get pulled out, not from the actual mortar, so @joe.smith21b14_ESO is right.

WuffyCerulei

It launches its mortars are the farthest enemy, so it going over walls and hitting people seems alright, but taking players out of cloak seems too much. I mean, unless you already saw them, alright, but if you haven't, then that's an issue.

Waffennacht

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

I have indeed been pulled out of stealth from it (I was not in combat at all, nor was I even in combat previous to being hit). I'll take videos for you the next time it happens. Also, the second the red ring appears I get pulled out, not from the actual mortar, so @joe.smith21b14_ESO is right.

And that is something I'm all for changing, quite frankly I
1. Out of my own personal hatred for LoS (and the fact it's a mortar) makes me want this part to not change
2. Based on dps the set does not need a damage reduction - right on par with the magicka versions (grothdar, skoria)

But that stealth thing etc can/needs to be changed.


Edit: just an fyi about my suspicions @Stoopid_Nwah is in my duels (i keep preferencing this because it may make a difference) I have not seen it take someone out that cloaked - my example would be I SA, 2 secs go by, NB cloaks stopping the SA, at this point I can ward all day and not mortar them. And I completely believe you, no get a clip, I trust you

Lord-Otto

Well, to be fair, Magelight is so incredibly weak and d-pots so incredibly short, there needs to be a better hard counter to cloak. I personally can crawl out of the red ring on my sorc before it hits, so de-cloaking and denying LoS BS are the main benefits to me and should be strong.
I emphathize with magblades, but that's more to the class kinda underperforming at the moment. I have zero compassion for stamblades because reasons and explosions.

joe.smith21b14_ESO

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Well, to be fair, Magelight is so incredibly weak and d-pots so incredibly short, there needs to be a better hard counter to cloak. I personally can crawl out of the red ring on my sorc before it hits, so de-cloaking and denying LoS BS are the main benefits to me and should be strong.
I emphathize with magblades, but that's more to the class kinda underperforming at the moment. I have zero compassion for stamblades because reasons and explosions.

I know your kinda new or don't know how to play so well but mage light and det pots work really well I can keep magelight up on nightblades all day if you can't your doin somethin wrong

joe.smith21b14_ESO

And besides I don't care if it launches at me but at least make it the mortar itself break the stealth

FriedEggSandwich

Minalan wrote: »

I use the set. It's fun. However it is very very broken.

1. The proc rate isn't balanced by any means whatsoever.

2. It ignores LOS and goes through walls and ceilings. I don't care that it flies over rocks that Stamina users are humping as hard as they can. It's a mortar round and it's supposed to fly up and over an obstacle.

3. In open Cyrodiil PVP so long as you're in combat it seeks cloaked players. I don't care much because cloaked players are one shotting people and it's ridiculous. They have one counter for a light armor magicka user and you bet your backside that I'm using it.

You can bet your backside I use detect pots too, they're just too good not too.

Lord-Otto

joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Well, to be fair, Magelight is so incredibly weak and d-pots so incredibly short, there needs to be a better hard counter to cloak. I personally can crawl out of the red ring on my sorc before it hits, so de-cloaking and denying LoS BS are the main benefits to me and should be strong.
I emphathize with magblades, but that's more to the class kinda underperforming at the moment. I have zero compassion for stamblades because reasons and explosions.

I know your kinda new or don't know how to play so well but mage light and det pots work really well I can keep magelight up on nightblades all day if you can't your doin somethin wrong

I can tell you what I'm doing wrong, I'm not slotting a useless ability to increase my odds against a very particular class. D-pots come with immo, so that's viable, but you are not pinning down a nightblade long enough to finish the fight in that time window. Though that's more to how dodge and LoS and expedition/sprint work.
A counter is needed that doesn't cripple a build and works consistently hroughout a longer time period, and Infernal Guardian does that.

Hexys

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/302651/infernal-guardian-detects-cloaked-players-please-fix#latest

Zos doesn't give a ....

Stoopid_Nwah

Waffennacht wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

I have indeed been pulled out of stealth from it (I was not in combat at all, nor was I even in combat previous to being hit). I'll take videos for you the next time it happens. Also, the second the red ring appears I get pulled out, not from the actual mortar, so @joe.smith21b14_ESO is right.

And that is something I'm all for changing, quite frankly I
1. Out of my own personal hatred for LoS (and the fact it's a mortar) makes me want this part to not change
2. Based on dps the set does not need a damage reduction - right on par with the magicka versions (grothdar, skoria)

But that stealth thing etc can/needs to be changed.


Edit: just an fyi about my suspicions @Stoopid_Nwah is in my duels (i keep preferencing this because it may make a difference) I have not seen it take someone out that cloaked - my example would be I SA, 2 secs go by, NB cloaks stopping the SA, at this point I can ward all day and not mortar them. And I completely believe you, no get a clip, I trust you

I'm fine with the los stuff as well as I agree it's a mortar why wouldn't it be able to launch...as for the stealth thing, it's just annoying vs sorcs with streak because the second they see the red aoe they can safely assume I'm there/in the area and streak right on over (effectively tracking me wherever they feel like because the range is so long on IG and streak is fast and doesn't need a target).

As for why you aren't noticing it proccing in duels, I'm not sure. I never duel with my gankbuild or with cloak (no one ever should haha) so I haven't really noticed it. Could it be that it doesn't proc off of cloaked enemies but it does seek them out/include them in distance calculations for the actual mortar? Just because in a duel, they would be your only enemy whereas in Cyrodiil there are many more enemies around, so IG could be proccing off of visible nearby enemies, but including stealthed players in x radius for where the mortars actually land. If that makes sense...

I know for sure that I have been on the outskirts of a battle and been hit with IG while not in combat, and I know that I have also ganked someone, taken damage from a nearby sorc, cloaked off and was hit/tracked down with IG while being the only player around (so it procced while I was cloaking). So I would definitely say if a nb is in combat that it can both proc and hit, even if they are the only target in the area. This is why it's weird then, following that logic, that a nb cloaking in a duel wouldn't get hit as they would indeed be "in combat". Seems it sort of nullifies my previous idea above of why it wouldn't.

I don't know, now I'm just confusing myself .

Waffennacht

@Stoopid_Nwah what I have discovered is a "window" of the IG proc.

Example. In dungeons or in duels, I can cast ward outside of combat and if I Then start combat within moments (don't know exact time elapsed feels like at least full second between) IG can Then proc, almost like a pre combat proc.

I wonder if that has anything to do with it?

Stoopid_Nwah

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Stoopid_Nwah what I have discovered is a "window" of the IG proc.

Example. In dungeons or in duels, I can cast ward outside of combat and if I Then start combat within moments (don't know exact time elapsed feels like at least full second between) IG can Then proc, almost like a pre combat proc.

I wonder if that has anything to do with it?

That is also bizarre...the whole way in which the set works should probably be looked at. Keep the mortars lobbing over walls, but to proc there should have to be an unstealthed enemy in x radius and the actual mortar calculation of who they hit should not include stealthed players unless they are "in combat" (and the only reason I think including stealthed players in combat is even fair, as normally I wouldn't, is because of how quickly stealthed players can move, to the point most counters to stealth won't work). I'd also change it so it doesn't pull people out of stealth until the actual mortar hits; it should be enough of a giveaway of location that it would telegraph the red aoe where the player is.

RadioheadSh0t

It goes through keep walls.

I've been running around inner keeps and hit the quartermaster through the wall.

It's not that powerful of an attack, but I'd hate to get a killing blow through a wall with it. But, when more than half of the population is Stam builds on Viper/Veli and Maluplars, I stopped caring if the set I'm running is bugged.

There has been no cloak/stealth bug in my experience.

joe.smith21b14_ESO

Lord-Otto wrote: »

joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Well, to be fair, Magelight is so incredibly weak and d-pots so incredibly short, there needs to be a better hard counter to cloak. I personally can crawl out of the red ring on my sorc before it hits, so de-cloaking and denying LoS BS are the main benefits to me and should be strong.
I emphathize with magblades, but that's more to the class kinda underperforming at the moment. I have zero compassion for stamblades because reasons and explosions.

I know your kinda new or don't know how to play so well but mage light and det pots work really well I can keep magelight up on nightblades all day if you can't your doin somethin wrong

I can tell you what I'm doing wrong, I'm not slotting a useless ability to increase my odds against a very particular class. D-pots come with immo, so that's viable, but you are not pinning down a nightblade long enough to finish the fight in that time window. Though that's more to how dodge and LoS and expedition/sprint work.
A counter is needed that doesn't cripple a build and works consistently hroughout a longer time period, and Infernal Guardian does that.

Mage light has a lot of good utilities that come with it let me list them for you.
Prevents the sneak stun and reduces sneak damage while slotted.
Reveals sneaking players like 10 meters away.
Grants empower when you cast it.
I'm short not a useless ability you just choose not to use it.

Toc de Malsvi

Absolutely have been pulled out of stealth, just last night I jumped off a wall and snuck up to kill a Sorc who was trading shots with my buddies on the wall. As I approached him I was suddenly bombarded by bombs, which both revealed me and did damage of course.

This could be related to the in combat bug though, where you respawn and are still in 'combat'.


More importantly my personal issue with it is the damage being done over LOS. I was trying to defend a resource against four players, at least two of which had the set and despite the fact that they were standing on the flag in a group and I was upstairs in the tower behind a wall and under a roof, I was getting pelted with these mortars.

Personally I don't feel that is fair or balanced game play. It is a compound issue, the proc not only does damage without regard to LOS, but it also auto targets. This makes allows it to add tons of pressure without very much player input. Most proc sets require you to actually target a player or basically position yourself on top of them. This set completely bypasses that which makes it very strong.

Sandman929

The set needs a complete redo. The fact that it ignores LoS is the only thing keeping it from being completely and ridiculously OP, though. If you're the only enemy in range, don't get kited into a close space because the splash damage is ridiculous when it's focused on one person.

Sandman929

I actually think it's working as intended, but the intent wasn't well thought out.

Derra

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Well, to be fair, Magelight is so incredibly weak and d-pots so incredibly short, there needs to be a better hard counter to cloak. I personally can crawl out of the red ring on my sorc before it hits, so de-cloaking and denying LoS BS are the main benefits to me and should be strong.
I emphathize with magblades, but that's more to the class kinda underperforming at the moment. I have zero compassion for stamblades because reasons and explosions.

Magblades are currently all the rage on every leaderboard because of how good they synergize with eye of the storm (better than any other class *hinthint )

Can´t have everything - i guess. They´re zergfarmers and they´re doing that preeetty good.