Can we please buff Pelinal's?

Solariken

Pelinal's Aptitude is [supposed to be] the pinnacle of what is available to players via crafting. It requires 9 traits and was the most recent addition to craftable sets.

I appreciate that ZOS was listening to many of our requests for build hybridization options, but no matter how you spin it, the set results in a net loss in almost every meaningful way. It is certainly effective for a few gimmick builds like ultra-healing werewolf or stamina beamplar, but all of those builds are one-trick ponies which don't truly accomplish the hybridization goals for which the set was created.

The most obvious buff option is to also provide resource damage scaling via ((max mag + max stam) / 2) to the current 5-piece bonus. This would make damage and healing output respectable for both spells and weapon attacks. It would also allow the player to distribute attribute points into more than one pool without being gimped.

Another option is to simply add a decent amount of max magicka and max stamina to the 5th bonus.

My favorite option though is to make even an incomplete set of Pelinal's attractive; the set could be resigned with mirrored benefits on each bonus tier as follows (gold quality items):

2 items - Adds 532 max health, 467 max magicka, and 467 max stamina.
3 items - Adds 90 health recovery, 90 magicka recovery, and 90 stamina recovery.
4 items - Adds 129 weapon damage and 129 spell damage.
5 items - [same as current]


Let's do this @Wrobel, let's make hybrids cool and fun again. @ZOS_GinaBruno would you be so kind as to make sure he at least has a look at this?

acw37162

If you could craft jewlery this set would be very interesting.

Waffennacht

I like it!

Reorx_Holybeard

Great idea! Hybrid builds definitely need a little love although I'm interested in seeing what they'll do with Health in the next balancing update.

DragonBound

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

Great idea! Hybrid builds definitely need a little love although I'm interested in seeing what they'll do with Health in the next balancing update.

I have no idea why people think health will do more then just health? Did they say there would be a new stat with it?

Alucardo

This set definitely needs a buff considering everything scales from your max stats, and Pelinal's is additionally weakened because of the CP system. Them two reasons alone makes no sense for this to be a 9 trait set as it currently stands.
It's hard to buff it without making Pelinal's completely OP. My suggestion would be:

(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health.
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery.
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery.
(5 items) Your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage both become the highest of the two values.
Adds 20% to your Max Stamina and Max Magicka
Adds 1064 Max Health

or

(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health.
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery.
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery.
(5 items) Your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage both become the highest of the two values.
The constellations have merged, Mighty and Elemental Expert now act as one, and are affected by the highest of the two values

Baconlad

oooo thats a good one alucardo i like both them suggestions...how about both wrapped into one bonus XD

Waffennacht

What about, "for damage calculations the higher resource pool is used" or however they would word it. I like @Alucardo 's idea too.

sneakymitchell

Crafted sets need a buff since one tamerial came out. People would rather use open world and grind in duegeons. This game is now an MMO grind. Just a typical MMO grind feast.

SickDuck

Alucardo wrote: »

This set definitely needs a buff considering everything scales from your max stats, and Pelinal's is additionally weakened because of the CP system. Them two reasons alone makes no sense for this to be a 9 trait set as it currently stands.
It's hard to buff it without making Pelinal's completely OP. My suggestion would be:

(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health.
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery.
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery.
(5 items) Your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage both become the highest of the two values.
Adds 20% to your Max Stamina and Max Magicka
Adds 1064 Max Health

or

(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health.
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery.
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery.
(5 items) Your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage both become the highest of the two values.
The constellations have merged, Mighty and Elemental Expert now act as one, and are affected by the highest of the two values

The first version is way OP, would outperform any resource related set. For example it's much better than Necropotence. You may tweak the numbers but not sure if a good balance can be achieved.

The second approach looks interesting and more feasible.

Alucardo

SickDuck wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

This set definitely needs a buff considering everything scales from your max stats, and Pelinal's is additionally weakened because of the CP system. Them two reasons alone makes no sense for this to be a 9 trait set as it currently stands.
It's hard to buff it without making Pelinal's completely OP. My suggestion would be:

(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health.
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery.
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery.
(5 items) Your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage both become the highest of the two values.
Adds 20% to your Max Stamina and Max Magicka
Adds 1064 Max Health

or

(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health.
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery.
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery.
(5 items) Your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage both become the highest of the two values.
The constellations have merged, Mighty and Elemental Expert now act as one, and are affected by the highest of the two values

The first version is way OP, would outperform any resource related set. For example it's much better than Necropotence. You may tweak the numbers but not sure if a good balance can be achieved.

The second approach looks interesting and more feasible.

Wouldn't hurt to have a 9 trait set that actually outperforms a BoE dropped set for a change

Izaki

Hey guys just got a pretty sweet idea for a build... Hurricane + Eye of the Storm + Endless Fury + C-Frag + Curse + Poison Injection + Rearming Trap + Mines + Streak + Hardened Ward + Vigor + Overload bar (Shuffle, Defensive Rune, etc.)

Pretty OP right?

Alucardo

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Pretty OP right?

With Pelinal's as it stands now? Nope.

Isellskooma

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Hey guys just got a pretty sweet idea for a build... Hurricane + Eye of the Storm + Endless Fury + C-Frag + Curse + Poison Injection + Rearming Trap + Mines + Streak + Hardened Ward + Vigor + Overload bar (Shuffle, Defensive Rune, etc.)

Pretty OP right?

I used this set a while ago on a Stamplar and my breath of life's were hitting 10k+. It was crazy.

psychotic13

Alucardo wrote: »

This set definitely needs a buff considering everything scales from your max stats, and Pelinal's is additionally weakened because of the CP system. Them two reasons alone makes no sense for this to be a 9 trait set as it currently stands.
It's hard to buff it without making Pelinal's completely OP. My suggestion would be:

(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health.
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery.
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery.
(5 items) Your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage both become the highest of the two values.
Adds 20% to your Max Stamina and Max Magicka
Adds 1064 Max Health

or

(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health.
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery.
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery.
(5 items) Your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage both become the highest of the two values.
The constellations have merged, Mighty and Elemental Expert now act as one, and are affected by the highest of the two values

The 20% extra Magicka and stamina would be OP, I can already reach around 30k in all 3 pools and have 3.5k WD/SD.

Hyrbids are not that bad, they just take a lot of time and gold to find the right balance between the two. I can easily do well in cyrodil with mine, the only thing that really holds us back is the splitting the CP tree for damage output, this is what makes the difference when fighting a competent player

Solariken

Some great thoughts from you guys.

The bottom line is that there is no reason to not at least give the 5th bonus everything you need for complete parity in scaling of damage and healing between stamina and magicka abilities.

Panda_iMunch

Considering there are many crafted sets, which can come in light, heavy or medium, and yet many of them are deigned for one armor type. They really need to go back and adjust these crafted sets to be at least neutral with stamina and magicka.

Izaki

Imperial Physique + Pelinal could work in IC!

EldritchPenguin

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

Considering there are many crafted sets, which can come in light, heavy or medium, and yet many of them are deigned for one armor type. They really need to go back and adjust these crafted sets to be at least neutral with stamina and magicka.

Eh. Unless the current crafted Magicka sets were still just as proficient for Magicka builds after being made more neutral, then that change would just push me even further away from considering a crafted set over a BoE one.

Solariken

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

Considering there are many crafted sets, which can come in light, heavy or medium, and yet many of them are deigned for one armor type. They really need to go back and adjust these crafted sets to be at least neutral with stamina and magicka.

@Panda_iMunch you would probably appreciate this:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/292368/armor-skill-line-re-design-is-needed/p1

Birdovic

My suggestion is this:

(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage and 129 Spell Damage.
(3 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(4 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina
(5 items) Your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage both become the highest of the two values.

Why do I want it like that: Heavy Armor.

I think a Hybrid benefits most from using Heavy Armor, due to passives like constitution, wrath or rapid mending, where both stamina and magicka focused characters benefit from (with pelinal you still want to focus on one of them after all).
So: Heavy armor works great on both, Magicka or Stamina

So to me its most logical, that recovery is replaced with more max stats(heavy armor helps with sustain) and the additional weapon/spell damage helps the theme of this set, which basically is about the 5pc bonus for high Weapon/Spell Damage overall.


But who knows, maybe its just how I'd prefer it

Edit: Another Option could be unique 3pc and 4pc bonuses, which give reduced magicka and stamina cost like jewelry?

Zakor

I like the ideas provided here but they are all still too weak. Even considered the resource pools would also count for damage, there is one big problem left: Critchance. Since crit is also divided into magic and weapon crit you would never be able to pull off anything close to a "normal" char. So the solution must include critchance. But you can't just add it into 5 piece (or even the ideas provided here) since the set would grow too strong. So my idea would be something like this.

• 2Items: Increase Stam & Mag by 600. The lower one gets boosted by 20%
• 3Items: Increase Stamregen & Magregen by 100. The lower one gets boosted by 20%
• 4Items: Increase Magcrit & Stamcrit by 5%. Your critchance becomes the highstest of the two.
• 5Items: Increase Weapondamage & Spelldamage by 80. Your damage becomes the highest of the two.

So for a pure stam/mag dd for example this would result in a loss of power, since the boni are weaker than what he could get otherwise. But for a hybrid build this is damn strong, as it should be. Anyway, you would have to provide a strong set for the general stats.
I for myself even think that a 5 piece set is too much of a power loss for hybrids and they should bring something like this down to a 3 piece set like willpower or agi. THAT would be good for hybrids. For example, just take the last two boni for the jewelry set and hybrids are back. Well almost, still no dual-championpoints or something.

SickDuck

Alucardo wrote: »

SickDuck wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

This set definitely needs a buff considering everything scales from your max stats, and Pelinal's is additionally weakened because of the CP system. Them two reasons alone makes no sense for this to be a 9 trait set as it currently stands.
It's hard to buff it without making Pelinal's completely OP. My suggestion would be:

(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health.
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery.
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery.
(5 items) Your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage both become the highest of the two values.
Adds 20% to your Max Stamina and Max Magicka
Adds 1064 Max Health

or

(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health.
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery.
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery.
(5 items) Your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage both become the highest of the two values.
The constellations have merged, Mighty and Elemental Expert now act as one, and are affected by the highest of the two values

The first version is way OP, would outperform any resource related set. For example it's much better than Necropotence. You may tweak the numbers but not sure if a good balance can be achieved.

The second approach looks interesting and more feasible.

Wouldn't hurt to have a 9 trait set that actually outperforms a BoE dropped set for a change

I know... wouldn't hold my breath though

Chrlynsch

Some imbalance in design that will make it hard for hybrid success. Here are are some core changes that I would change for the game with minimal

Remove armor type passive requirements aka 5piece bonus, make it a per piece bonus.

Remove spell and weapon critical and give us one critical number.

Remove armor/spell penetration and give us penetration.

Once these are in place for the core game we can tweek Pelinal's.