Resources are weird in this game

smashcats

Just wanted to rant about how I find it weird that I have to pump every single point in magicka on a magsorc...or for any build the only way to make it is pump all points into resource...Wish I could make a sorc with more hp, every other game has a way to manage your "mana" so much better, by the time you get end game and put some work into your build you usually wouldnt have to worry about mana running out to 0 anymore, and can actually theory craft a more diverse type of build...so why are we basically forced to nly go 1 way magicka only or stamina only, I know i could attempt to make a 30hp/30mag sorc but you know, it just wouldnt be any good i guess...just seems weird

mumsspaghetti

It's not about managing your resources. The more stamina, or magika you have, the more damage your abilities do. So people just prefer the extra damage over having a higher health pool.

Lolssi

Stupid system anyways to tie your damage to your pools.

Alucardo

Lolssi wrote: »

Stupid system anyways to tie your damage to your pools.

Pretty much what kills hybrids and Pelinal's. Well, that and the champion system.

GreenSoup2HoT

mumsspaghetti wrote: »

It's not about managing your resources. The more stamina, or magika you have, the more damage your abilities do. So people just prefer the extra damage over having a higher health pool.

Even when ZOS makes higher health pools more viable by making healing a factor with health, you'll see a decline in people using drinks. So now having lower stamina and health pools means you'll have less healing and damage when using regen drinks. Thanks ZOS for giving us regen drinkers some incentive to use them..... not really

psychotic13

shields also scale off of max magicka, that's why sorcs go 64 into Magicka, bigger shields.

Snit

Alucardo wrote: »

Lolssi wrote: »

Stupid system anyways to tie your damage to your pools.

Pretty much what kills hybrids and Pelinal's. Well, that and the champion system.

Yep. I think it's mostly the champion system. You could put together a 5x Pelinals 5x Trainee gearset and have fairly good stats, but the CP system forces you to choose one path or the other.

And perhaps that's not all bad? I'm imagining a sorc that could take full advantage of both Hurricane and Liquid Lightning. Sounds fun, right? I may give it a shot if I can farm well-traited trainee, and hope that the diminishing returns built into the CP system make the character viable, if not optimal for four-man content.

Vaoh

Snit wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Lolssi wrote: »

Stupid system anyways to tie your damage to your pools.

Pretty much what kills hybrids and Pelinal's. Well, that and the champion system.

Yep. I think it's mostly the champion system. You could put together a 5x Pelinals 5x Trainee gearset and have fairly good stats, but the CP system forces you to choose one path or the other.

And perhaps that's not all bad? I'm imagining a sorc that could take full advantage of both Hurricane and Liquid Lightning. Sounds fun, right? I may give it a shot if I can farm well-traited trainee, and hope that the diminishing returns built into the CP system make the character viable, if not optimal for four-man content.

Nothing about that build will be optimal, because you aren't stacking everything into Stamina, or everything into Magicka.

It would be fun to try! But then you have to ask yourself, is it worth investing so much time/gold into something that'll likely suck?

Maybe Hybrids will be viable again, but atm Max Stats>>Regen. And CP investment....

Hybrids are hit at every turn. Yeah you can make a Hybrid tank (most are) or a Heavy Armor Hybrid with cheesy sets like Black Rose for 1v1s, but no more than that.

Snit

Vaoh wrote: »

It would be fun to try! But then you have to ask yourself, is it worth investing so much time/gold into something that'll likely suck?

My main already spends most of his time gathering gear for my alts My hobby has a hobby!

It all comes down to just how big the gap is between viable and optimal. If you exclude content for which optimal builds are heavily encouraged, if not required (Trials, VMSA), I think it might be close enough to work.

But, your overall point is correct. ZOS has taken baby steps to make hybrids viable (e.g., Pelinals), but nearly every other aspect of the skills and abilities design pushes toward a binary choice of either stam or magicka.

STEVIL

Te really make hybrids competitive is a major overhaul likely to be frought with several health in top periods.

Right now hvy arm sets and some like bubbleplars are either competitive or close and thats before shifting elements from stam/mag to health. Will see growth in pure or mostly hlt builds when it gets buffed.

How far is needed?
Shift all regen scale off health.
Shift defenses like shields, pets health,, dodging under health.

Healing needs to be lowered at base value with scaling healing done off the sta/mag of the spell but adding a healing recieved bonus per target based off max health of target or if you want to get clever base healing recieved bonus on amount of health lost - raw score not percentage lost. So a 60k maxhlt down to 10k would get a lot more heal rec than a 15kmax down to 2500.

Other possibiilities but expect a surge and uneven transition.

AtraisMachina

smashcats wrote: »

Just wanted to rant about how I find it weird that I have to pump every single point in magicka on a magsorc...or for any build the only way to make it is pump all points into resource...Wish I could make a sorc with more hp, every other game has a way to manage your "mana" so much better, by the time you get end game and put some work into your build you usually wouldnt have to worry about mana running out to 0 anymore, and can actually theory craft a more diverse type of build...so why are we basically forced to nly go 1 way magicka only or stamina only, I know i could attempt to make a 30hp/30mag sorc but you know, it just wouldnt be any good i guess...just seems weird

I assume when you say "other games" you mean other Es games. Yea you could make perma regen builds in skyrim. But skyrim believe it or not is not an mmo so it does not have to be balanced.

P.s. Op alchemy and enchant stacking in skyrim is for d bags.

Kutsuu

This game used to have softcaps, and people could either go hybrid with low health, or health + a main stat. Now it's all about min/maxing that one stat for the most part.

STEVIL

Kutsuu wrote: »

This game used to have softcaps, and people could either go hybrid with low health, or health + a main stat. Now it's all about min/maxing that one stat for the most part.

While i dont yearn for softcaps i would love to see similar diminishing returns factor applied to atts like we have for cp. Make going to 30 mag really big and going from 31 to 60 less appealing.

Maybe put half the total magica gain from keveling in the first 20 pts, then a third in the second 20 pts, then the rrst in the last 24 and in each bracket diminish gain as you go up.