Magicka Gank Build - Best setup?

psychotic13

I've started to make a Magicka NB Ganker, so I'm looking for some suggestions on the best way to go about it.

Currently Ive gone with DW/Resto x5 necropotence, x5 Stygian, x1 kena and x1 grothdar and I'm a Dunmer. Using the the shadow Mundus and full divines to make that first blow (guarenteed crit after shadowy disguise) hit harder.

My problem is it doesn't seem to be all that strong, at first I was testing it on a few potatoes and could kill them with shadowy disguise then soul harvest -> impale easily. But trying my burst seems to be lacking, Stygian does give 20% spell damage and max Magicka while stealthed but it comes at the cost of wearing medium armor.

I'm not looking to make the VD bomber but more a single target gank approach.

I did also try using a destro with elegance, may opt to go back to that if I fail with this style.

So just looking for some suggestions to see where people thought I could improve, what's the best option for burst on a magblade?



This is what the character sheet currently looks like while buffed with major sorcery, Stygian and necropotence. No gold glyphs, weapons or cyrodil buffs.

PrinceRyzen

Working on a mag gank blade myself. Glad to see it discussed.

Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on Necro for ganking? I'm considering it for a destro heavy attack build.

Snit

I have mageblade alt, and I've been toying with a combination of the Keena set and Merciless Resolve. Four Consecutive Light Attacks could set up a very buffed burst, all the more so if you make proper use of Clever Alchemist. You could even add empower by toggling magelight, or guarantee a crit with Shadowy Disguise.

The problem is that you've got a whole lot of setup for that burst, most of which cannot be done stealthed. The other problem is simply that any stam build with a couple proc sets will perform better under almost all circumstances.

Lexxypwns

5 Alchemist 5 spinners 1 kena

cloak, pop a pot, inner light to proc empower, cloak again, charge a destro heavy attack, animation cancel it with soul harvest, funnel, concealed weapon. Execute as needed.

You'll need the penetration from spinners when ganking heavy armor builds, there's no way around it.

Brutusmax1mus

Staff damage does not scale of max magicka i thought, only spell damage

Kutsuu

I would replace Stygian with Elegant or maybe Clever Alchemist and use inferno staff heavy attacks. Dunmer ftw of course.

Stoopid_Nwah

Destro staff is your friend. Use it. Love it. Stygian also is not great imo, too finicky. Clever alchemist is necessary for magblade ganking, the other 5 piece you could use necropotence (also a bit iffy on this as I've recently learned you're better off with more spell damage than magicka when ganking, plus the shade can ruin things), elegance, spinners, or 2 torugs/3 willpower.

BiS though? Not sure, but I like:
VMA sharpened inferno staff, poison
backbar dw clever alchemist swords
kena helmet
clever alchemist chest
ilambris/grothdarr/infernal guardian shoulder
clever alchemist gloves
torugs/spinners/necro/etc.. waist
clever alchemist pants
torugs/spinners/necro/eetc...shoes

necklace-willpower/spinners/necro/etc...
ring-as above
ring-as above

Max magicka, max health food use spell power potions to buff. I sit buffed at 44k max magicka, 4500 spell damage.

Looks like this in action-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ZhCFb1SNk&t=1s

@Brutusmax1mus I was recently shown the math on this. Spell damage amps up heavy attack damage significantly more, but max magicka still does increase it. And with magblades, it's significantly easier to up magicka versus spell power so there's not much of a choice unfortunately.

Bazeric

Melee gank is super weak right now. You'll be stuck choosing targets that are noobies with less than 23K health. I keep trying to get it to work, and while I am getting better at it, I'd be 3x more effective as a proctard. I'd get 3x the kills in 1/3 the time and I'd would have a larger pool of targets to pick from.

It sucks having a 17k+ soul harvest tooltip that when you buff with empower/shadowy still only crits for 10K on average* in Cyrodiil. The follow up conceals rarely get more than 6K (so that is a total burst of 16K avg*) and after that, more competent players will have broke free, healed, and countered... and you'll pop because you have to go full stupid to even pretend to do damage. So if you like be exceptionally selective with picking targets go ahead and keep working on it. I am too lazy/anti instant stam proc to farm vipers so I just /y RAGE most the time.

Personally I have gone the penetration route as it seems to be helpful if I am solely single target. I think it is worth trying destro gank, some people around the forums seem to be okay with it (I don't have the pieces I want for it and I'm kinda over the grind). Still best thing to do would be stam proctard. If I had a magicka(melee) set that instantly added 10k to my open burst, I'd be getting rage tells from all L2P git gud scrubs.

FriedEggSandwich

Lexxypwns wrote: »

5 Alchemist 5 spinners 1 kena

cloak, pop a pot, inner light to proc empower, cloak again, charge a destro heavy attack, animation cancel it with soul harvest, funnel, concealed weapon. Execute as needed.

You'll need the penetration from spinners when ganking heavy armor builds, there's no way around it.

Yeah if you want to suprise people with damage you will need spinners.

psychotic13

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

5 Alchemist 5 spinners 1 kena

cloak, pop a pot, inner light to proc empower, cloak again, charge a destro heavy attack, animation cancel it with soul harvest, funnel, concealed weapon. Execute as needed.

You'll need the penetration from spinners when ganking heavy armor builds, there's no way around it.

Yeah if you want to suprise people with damage you will need spinners.

Is spinners better than elegance in this situation though? I figured the 20% extra damage on your heavy would be more beneficial but I haven't checked numbers or anything

kaithuzar

My question is when you have 5 light + a destro staff, the staff gives "passive penetration" which doesn't show up on harvens ext. stats
Do you really need spinners if you are already using the above? What if 80~100 points into spell erosion?
What is the optimal for crit vs dmg vs penetration? Because I understood that you should have them all around equal for maximum effectiveness is that not right? Should you go medusa inc crit dmg + 100 into sp erosion? Or 100 into crit dmg inc?

FriedEggSandwich

psychotic13 wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

5 Alchemist 5 spinners 1 kena

cloak, pop a pot, inner light to proc empower, cloak again, charge a destro heavy attack, animation cancel it with soul harvest, funnel, concealed weapon. Execute as needed.

You'll need the penetration from spinners when ganking heavy armor builds, there's no way around it.

Yeah if you want to suprise people with damage you will need spinners.

Is spinners better than elegance in this situation though? I figured the 20% extra damage on your heavy would be more beneficial but I haven't checked numbers or anything

Depends on the resistances of your target. If you're fighting light armour users with wards then spinners won't help, but if you're fighting tanks and heavy armour users then spinners > all. With the amount of players wearing at least 5 heavy atm spinners is a safe bet imo. 4k resistances mitigate about 6-7% damage, so 4k spell pen against someone with the resistance to penetrate amounts to about 6-7% more damage. Afaik there is no other 5 piece bonus that will reliably buff all your damage by that much.

FriedEggSandwich

kaithuzar wrote: »

My question is when you have 5 light + a destro staff, the staff gives "passive penetration" which doesn't show up on harvens ext. stats
Do you really need spinners if you are already using the above? What if 80~100 points into spell erosion?
What is the optimal for crit vs dmg vs penetration? Because I understood that you should have them all around equal for maximum effectiveness is that not right? Should you go medusa inc crit dmg + 100 into sp erosion? Or 100 into crit dmg inc?

The penetration from destro passive is only for destro skills. 60cp into elfborn wil give you just over 3k spell pen, so it's expensive. Fwiw 5x light armour + 5x spinners + sharpened staff + 60cp into elfborn will get you upto about 17k spell pen, which is still less than most players resistances in cyro atm.

Jbugz97

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

Destro staff is your friend. Use it. Love it. Stygian also is not great imo, too finicky. Clever alchemist is necessary for magblade ganking, the other 5 piece you could use necropotence (also a bit iffy on this as I've recently learned you're better off with more spell damage than magicka when ganking, plus the shade can ruin things), elegance, spinners, or 2 torugs/3 willpower.

BiS though? Not sure, but I like:
VMA sharpened inferno staff, poison
backbar dw clever alchemist swords
kena helmet
clever alchemist chest
ilambris/grothdarr/infernal guardian shoulder
clever alchemist gloves
torugs/spinners/necro/etc.. waist
clever alchemist pants
torugs/spinners/necro/eetc...shoes

necklace-willpower/spinners/necro/etc...
ring-as above
ring-as above

Max magicka, max health food use spell power potions to buff. I sit buffed at 44k max magicka, 4500 spell damage.

Looks like this in action-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ZhCFb1SNk&t=1s

@Brutusmax1mus I was recently shown the math on this. Spell damage amps up heavy attack damage significantly more, but max magicka still does increase it. And with magblades, it's significantly easier to up magicka versus spell power so there's not much of a choice unfortunately.

@Stoopid_Nwah
Hey whats up you never made a video comparing necro and alchemy and other new sets did you not like any of the new ones.

Kutsuu

Elegant + Clever Alchemist is probably going to be hard to beat for a heavy attack gank build. It's possible that Spider Cult could do ok vs Elegant, but I'm doubtful on that.

Stoopid_Nwah

Jbugz97 wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

Destro staff is your friend. Use it. Love it. Stygian also is not great imo, too finicky. Clever alchemist is necessary for magblade ganking, the other 5 piece you could use necropotence (also a bit iffy on this as I've recently learned you're better off with more spell damage than magicka when ganking, plus the shade can ruin things), elegance, spinners, or 2 torugs/3 willpower.

BiS though? Not sure, but I like:
VMA sharpened inferno staff, poison
backbar dw clever alchemist swords
kena helmet
clever alchemist chest
ilambris/grothdarr/infernal guardian shoulder
clever alchemist gloves
torugs/spinners/necro/etc.. waist
clever alchemist pants
torugs/spinners/necro/eetc...shoes

necklace-willpower/spinners/necro/etc...
ring-as above
ring-as above

Max magicka, max health food use spell power potions to buff. I sit buffed at 44k max magicka, 4500 spell damage.

Looks like this in action-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ZhCFb1SNk&t=1s

@Brutusmax1mus I was recently shown the math on this. Spell damage amps up heavy attack damage significantly more, but max magicka still does increase it. And with magblades, it's significantly easier to up magicka versus spell power so there's not much of a choice unfortunately.

@Stoopid_Nwah
Hey whats up you never made a video comparing necro and alchemy and other new sets did you not like any of the new ones.

Hey, sorry I have been extremely busy, but to answer your question without a vid-no, I hate necropotence for a gank build. The shade is finnicky and can sometimes give you away if you aren't careful, and spell damage is more useful for a boosted heavy attack. Go clever alchemist + elegance or clever alchemist + willpower and two torugs . As for new sets, I'm also doubtful any can compare to what I listed.

Rohamad_Ali

I truly don't like Majika gank builds and have more success with taking stealth off my bar . The burst damage just does not compare to stamina . If you are I would suggest a high dps Majic friendly proc like Alchemist with plenty of crit like Night Mothers Sorrow .

Kutsuu

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I truly don't like Majika gank builds and have more success with taking stealth off my bar . The burst damage just does not compare to stamina . If you are I would suggest a high dps Majic friendly proc like Alchemist with plenty of crit like Night Mothers Sorrow .

While it doesn't add up to a full on incap combo, the destro heavy attack itself can actually hit FAR harder than the bow heavy attack leading up a stam combo. I've been blasted by a few 20k+ destro heavies off my horse... but I'm a vamp.

Stoopid_Nwah

Kutsuu wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I truly don't like Majika gank builds and have more success with taking stealth off my bar . The burst damage just does not compare to stamina . If you are I would suggest a high dps Majic friendly proc like Alchemist with plenty of crit like Night Mothers Sorrow .

While it doesn't add up to a full on incap combo, the destro heavy attack itself can actually hit FAR harder than the bow heavy attack leading up a stam combo. I've been blasted by a few 20k+ destro heavies off my horse... but I'm a vamp.

Yep, like I've said elsewhere I have hit someone with an almost 26k destro crit. Add the lotus fan and soul harvest and that's already an insane opener. Stam ganking will change a bit when proc sets go (obviously talking about the viper builds).

NoFlash

Do you guys know if its possible to gank in a no cp campaign or are the cp points for heavy attacks that important

psychotic13

EvoAZN wrote: »

Do you guys know if its possible to gank in a no cp campaign or are the cp points for heavy attacks that important

I would imagine it would be ok, cause they wont have CPs into elemental defender ect.

Jbugz97

@Stoopid_Nwah
Hey, sorry I have been extremely busy, but to answer your question without a vid-no, I hate necropotence for a gank build. The shade is finnicky and can sometimes give you away if you aren't careful, and spell damage is more useful for a boosted heavy attack. Go clever alchemist + elegance or clever alchemist + willpower and two torugs . As for new sets, I'm also doubtful any can compare to what I listed.



@Stoopid_Nwah
hey i here you about necropotence, what i notice is i think the player here that combat song come up when you put shades out which is a signal for them,
right now im liking the spinner set the damage seems more than other set even more than bsw, i just dont like the fact that i know its useless against shield player

psychotic13

Jbugz97 wrote: »

@Stoopid_Nwah
Hey, sorry I have been extremely busy, but to answer your question without a vid-no, I hate necropotence for a gank build. The shade is finnicky and can sometimes give you away if you aren't careful, and spell damage is more useful for a boosted heavy attack. Go clever alchemist + elegance or clever alchemist + willpower and two torugs . As for new sets, I'm also doubtful any can compare to what I listed.



@Stoopid_Nwah
hey i here you about necropotence, what i notice is i think the player here that combat song come up when you put shades out which is a signal for them,
right now im liking the spinner set the damage seems more than other set even more than bsw, i just dont like the fact that i know its useless against shield player

This is the exact reason I chose to not use spinners.

Jbugz97

psychotic13 wrote: »

Jbugz97 wrote: »

@Stoopid_Nwah
Hey, sorry I have been extremely busy, but to answer your question without a vid-no, I hate necropotence for a gank build. The shade is finnicky and can sometimes give you away if you aren't careful, and spell damage is more useful for a boosted heavy attack. Go clever alchemist + elegance or clever alchemist + willpower and two torugs . As for new sets, I'm also doubtful any can compare to what I listed.



@Stoopid_Nwah
hey i here you about necropotence, what i notice is i think the player here that combat song come up when you put shades out which is a signal for them,
right now im liking the spinner set the damage seems more than other set even more than bsw, i just dont like the fact that i know its useless against shield player

This is the exact reason I chose to not use spinners.

so what are you using, im going at the moment with bsw which i thought would have more damage but it doesnt seem like it does

psychotic13

Jbugz97 wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Jbugz97 wrote: »

@Stoopid_Nwah
Hey, sorry I have been extremely busy, but to answer your question without a vid-no, I hate necropotence for a gank build. The shade is finnicky and can sometimes give you away if you aren't careful, and spell damage is more useful for a boosted heavy attack. Go clever alchemist + elegance or clever alchemist + willpower and two torugs . As for new sets, I'm also doubtful any can compare to what I listed.



@Stoopid_Nwah
hey i here you about necropotence, what i notice is i think the player here that combat song come up when you put shades out which is a signal for them,
right now im liking the spinner set the damage seems more than other set even more than bsw, i just dont like the fact that i know its useless against shield player

This is the exact reason I chose to not use spinners.

so what are you using, im going at the moment with bsw which i thought would have more damage but it doesnt seem like it does

For ganking I go with x5 elegance x5 alchemist and 2 monster pieces, if I'm dueling I'll switch elegance for necropotence

kaithuzar

My vote would probably be 5 necro + 5 alchemist, but I'm not a bomber & personally don't often try it b/c I'm not good at it. #have_your_own_playstyle

-Kai
(The last magicka melee nightblade)

KingYogi415

Bombblade>

jarydf

On my MagSorc I have a set of Night Mothers Embrace that I swap in for my usual Necropotance when doing sneaky content like Dark Brotherhood / Thieves Guild / Lock boxes & general wholesale looting. It is enchanted magicka and with the vampire passive it makes the Alter sorc feel like a bosmer stam character for those stealthy quests etc. Even though it is medium armor I can still do 36k overload crits with it on. I was surprised how well it still worked even though it is not a normal BIS thing to do. I wonder whether someone better at pvp could make it work in a gank build with the smaller detection radius, extra stam and speed in stealth. Get fairly up close and personal, hard cast frags out of stealth, then a couple of overloads. If it all goes wrong drop a vanish or immobility speed pot, couple of streaks and head for the hills.