A (long) Rant From a Healer

VampiricByNature

As a healer and a trial team leader, I'm always trying to add great healers to my group.
But.
Here's the phrase I hear. And when I hear it, I know I'm not going to have a good trial.
"Why do I need a BoL that hits for more than a players healthbar?
So. For my own sanity, I feel like this needs to be written somewhere. It's not your BoL you need to look at. It's your healing springs. Why are you healing only 3 players in a 12 man trial?
Yes. Fine. Your BoL spam can get it done. Pump your magic recovery to 4k and go crazy. Whatever. But I don't just want to scrape through the trial. I want it to be easy for all parties involved. If you can just spam BoL, then all dps should just use their 1 spammable ability on repeat.
If dps have rotations, healers should too. If 12 people on my team take damage? I want to healing springs them to full health with ease and have relaxation time to ele drain and siphon. Balls. Shards.
And flawless conqueror? Stop telling your healer what to do. You might have a score in maelstrom as sky high as the stars but in my trial? There are no sigils here. The best I can do for you is not intentionally let you die after you wholeheartedly suggest I run ele drain. And healers? The only reason the dps are jerks to you is because you couldn't heal or buff your way thru a fight with a tin can.

Salty like a cracker. If you can't tell, we all make mistakes and my post is all in good fun. I just feel like healers get off so much easier than dps sometimes! Sure, we get screamed at, but so many healers attribute that to "dps standing in red".
So how do you guys rate your healers? Do you even notice any difference in my try hard ways vs. a BoL psychopath? Does anyone out there have a "heal test" before they take someone into a trial?

P3ZZL3

Look at the floor, and stay outta the red.
Don't look at me, cause you know you'll be dead!

Dasovaruilos

I'd love to see some more stuff to read and watch about healing in trials.

I've watched some videos from healers PoV, take notes, but without commentaries it is very hard. I heal normal trials fine, but the difference is just too big. People in normal trials just don't need to think too much about strategies to finish it.

For example, how do you coordinate buffs / debuffs between healers?

I know people do SPC + Worm and SPC + IA for two healers. But how about Ele Drain, Siphon, Shards, Orbs? Siphon takes too long to cast.

Should healers also rotate between them for the healing and supporting phases of the rotation?

Each run one morph? Each run a couple (one does shards, other does orbs, for example)?

Share the knowledge for us not vet trial material yet, hehe.

EDIT: Also, is there such a thing as a healing test, like the Bloodspawn DPS test? I'd love to try it out.

That Darn Argonian

Zoom camera out.
Need shards? Give a shout!
Communication is the key - to an easier victory!

Sorry, I thought we were all rhyming our responses!

EvilCroc

[deleted]

vyndral13preub18_ESO

In normal trials as long as it isnt a one shot i dont even care if you stand in red. But you sure as hell better be standing in the same red as everyone else. if i cant hit you all with springs people are going to die.

And really i dont care. Springs dont care neither. I asked. They said 12 people? 2 people? I dont care i can keep them all alive easily as long as they are sort of near each other. And less just means it takes longer to kill what ever we are fighting. So let the snow flakes and unicorns dance alone until they melt or vanish from exsistance we will finish up with those smart enough to stay in the glowing circle of love.

KingYogi415

You should run eledrain!

-A healer

AzuraKin

dont know if its possible to solo heal most parts of vet trials with 1 healer, but i know i have solo healed on normal. so you actually have one solid healer spamming heal springs on a group and another healer just cycling through buffs if your healers want a simple rotation. least that my take, have one healer spam healing springs other combat prayer and they can alternate the one morph of restro staff ult between warhorns.

SquareSausage

BoL spam prob wont even work as it only heals 2 people and in phases when the whole raid take damage its not enough. Everyone needs to be healed at once so both healers dropping springs is the way to go. Either pump up spell power and/or plus healing and springs rules the roost. An occasional BoL is required for like a tank who misses a block but thats only really it, or the occasional loss of aggro on multi trash packs or adds on bosses.

ye its all about communication. Tanks, dps, healers all must talk to let each other know what they require be it shards, siphon, ele drain or to move to new location. Also as a healer if you see someone outside your springs diameter tell them to move to where they will be healed.

Delimber

I have a toon for each role (Tank, Healer, and DPS). As I'm usually tanking for dungeon runs I've seen the healers take too much flak from the glass cannons.

I for one don't like putting all my faith in the healer. There are a few fights I'm glad to get some heals as some fights its just easier if the tank stays in the danger zone to keep the group in a small area and makes things like Healing springs more effective.

Best example of that would be that giant Deadroth in Banished Cells (I think its BC's) where if you don't stay in one place you end up spreading fire everywhere lol.

I have found the Healer role to be the most stressful in the game. Not so much with a good group but with some pugs it can be, to the point where you abandon the group.

As for a "heal test" for an unknown player, I say it'd come down to the experience healers talking to the unknown guy to see how they are set up and hopefully the guy is open to suggestions on the most suitable bar set up for a trial run.

I've only done a couple of trial runs with guild mates as a DPS so I'm rather limited in trial XP.

VampiricByNature

AzuraKin wrote: »

dont know if its possible to solo heal most parts of vet trials with 1 healer, but i know i have solo healed on normal. so you actually have one solid healer spamming heal springs on a group and another healer just cycling through buffs if your healers want a simple rotation. least that my take, have one healer spam healing springs other combat prayer and they can alternate the one morph of restro staff ult between warhorns.

I've actually found it to be far more effective for both healers [on veteran] to have a rotation. I prefer 1 to take ele drain- one takes siphon. Siphon is very slow. I prefer to have my twilight or worms healer run this. I like my aether healer to use ele. 1 takes combat prayer- or both- depending on the spread of the fight.
Right now it is typical to have 2 healers on veteran. There are times stacking healing springs is very important.
I, personally, prefer warhorn. There are also some times when a nova mitigation is wonderful.

idk

I don't understand the rant. Is it about BoL, which I think I only use on the warrior and maybe some on the twins and Rakkhat. Or is this about having to run ele drain and other buffs which is pretty standard for a trial healer?

Hamiltonmath

hugocbp wrote: »

I'd love to see some more stuff to read and watch about healing in trials.

I've watched some videos from healers PoV, take notes, but without commentaries it is very hard. I heal normal trials fine, but the difference is just too big. People in normal trials just don't need to think too much about strategies to finish it.

For example, how do you coordinate buffs / debuffs between healers?

I know people do SPC + Worm and SPC + IA for two healers. But how about Ele Drain, Siphon, Shards, Orbs? Siphon takes too long to cast.

Should healers also rotate between them for the healing and supporting phases of the rotation?

Each run one morph? Each run a couple (one does shards, other does orbs, for example)?

Share the knowledge for us not vet trial material yet, hehe.

EDIT: Also, is there such a thing as a healing test, like the Bloodspawn DPS test? I'd love to try it out.

We follow the 75-25 rule: One healer does 75 percent of the ele drain, the siphon spirit, the shards and orbs and 25 percent of the healing (usually a BoL when needed). The other healer heals 75% of the time and 25% buffs. Note that this is usually the one to make sure that Combat Prayer is on everyone. Both healers are responsible for SPC though, since it maxes at 6 people. This makes the buff b**ch usually drop a ritual to constantly heal over time. Alternatively, you can have one healer do all buffs and one healer do all heals, but its tough to keep SPC up that way.

AzuraKin

dont see twilight worth using period in any situation, and i dont see worm being good other then reducing the cost of cleanse (nothing else is costly enough to justify the 5p). aether is good in pve as there enough dps to make it a solid boost of damage. but to be honest i really see no need for siphon or ele drain really as in my experience those only return magicka back to the caster not anyone who hits boss (if they did pretty sure i could run a trial with out any regen passives or enchants or cost reduction enchants on single target boss and never lose magicka and never have to use a potion, yet i currently have to use a cost reduction enchant and potion to achieve a near zero balance magicka cost. and that is based on the fact there is no difference in my sustainability in a 4 man dungeon single targeting a boss vs a trial vs pen and paper based on cost of sum of skills used / (skills used divided by 2) - regen.

RavenSworn

Tank Dies, healer's fault. Healer Dies, tank's Fault. Dps Dies, its their own damn fault.

idk

AzuraKin wrote: »

dont see twilight worth using period in any situation, and i dont see worm being good other then reducing the cost of cleanse (nothing else is costly enough to justify the 5p). aether is good in pve as there enough dps to make it a solid boost of damage. but to be honest i really see no need for siphon or ele drain really as in my experience those only return magicka back to the caster not anyone who hits boss (if they did pretty sure i could run a trial with out any regen passives or enchants or cost reduction enchants on single target boss and never lose magicka and never have to use a potion, yet i currently have to use a cost reduction enchant and potion to achieve a near zero balance magicka cost. and that is based on the fact there is no difference in my sustainability in a 4 man dungeon single targeting a boss vs a trial vs pen and paper based on cost of sum of skills used / (skills used divided by 2) - regen.

@AzuraKin

The healer doesn't wear work for themselves. It's for the group and is fairly standard for high end raiding groups.

And did I read that correctly, you think there is no benefit to the healer wearing work yet you use cost reduction on your jewelry.? It reduced the cost of all magika skills.

As for siphon and ele drain, your information is incorrect. It returns magiia back to the one attacking.

Essentially, it is for the trial leader to determine ehat the healers should wear and use. It's up t the healers to perform in accordance with what's been requested. Same for any role.

Foxic

I hold my healers to the same standard that I hold my tanks and dps. If they aren't doing their job they're out. Someone tells me it isn't their job to run ele drain? They're gone.

As for a healing test, the only real way to do it is bring them on a hard trial and see what they can do with direction

AzuraKin

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

dont see twilight worth using period in any situation, and i dont see worm being good other then reducing the cost of cleanse (nothing else is costly enough to justify the 5p). aether is good in pve as there enough dps to make it a solid boost of damage. but to be honest i really see no need for siphon or ele drain really as in my experience those only return magicka back to the caster not anyone who hits boss (if they did pretty sure i could run a trial with out any regen passives or enchants or cost reduction enchants on single target boss and never lose magicka and never have to use a potion, yet i currently have to use a cost reduction enchant and potion to achieve a near zero balance magicka cost. and that is based on the fact there is no difference in my sustainability in a 4 man dungeon single targeting a boss vs a trial vs pen and paper based on cost of sum of skills used / (skills used divided by 2) - regen.

@AzuraKin

The healer doesn't wear work for themselves. It's for the group and is fairly standard for high end raiding groups.

And did I read that correctly, you think there is no benefit to the healer wearing work yet you use cost reduction on your jewelry.? It reduced the cost of all magika skills.

As for siphon and ele drain, your information is incorrect. It returns magiia back to the one attacking.

Essentially, it is for the trial leader to determine ehat the healers should wear and use. It's up t the healers to perform in accordance with what's been requested. Same for any role.

the cost reduction of 1 cost reduction enchant is greater then 5% cost reduction and i also run bare minimum regen and dont use siphoning attacks. if you want it to be put into perspective my 1 cost reduction enchant is = to 2 regen passives.

AzuraKin

oh and i dont use heavy attacks to restore magicka either. whole nature of my play style is constant skills not maintaining resources through heavy attacks, which any heavy attack weave with a destro staff should coupled with regen = zero mana loss. in fact should on average get 2-3 skills between heavy attacks and not lose mana at bare minimum.

VampiricByNature

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

I don't understand the rant. Is it about BoL, which I think I only use on the warrior and maybe some on the twins and Rakkhat. Or is this about having to run ele drain and other buffs which is pretty standard for a trial healer?

Sorry, I think my breakfast sarcasm was a bit off base. Ele drain, buffs, etc are essential to a trial imo. I keep running across BoL-based healers and it is very difficult to work with.

LadyNalcarya

Well, I play all roles, and for me a healer that just spams BoL with no support or a tank that just taunts and holds block is the same as dd with 1 dps ability.
Besides, healing with only BoL in trials? Sounds crazy.

uniq_faznrb18_ESO wrote: »

Tank Dies, healer's fault. Healer Dies, tank's Fault. Dps Dies, its their own damn fault.

That's not truth actually.
Its not healers fault if tank was ignoring mechanics... For example, I saw a tank being oneshotted by bear's charge attack in Selene's Web. And there are untauntable bosses as well so tank cant do much if theyre killing someone.
People could die to various reasons... And blaming anyone isnt constructive in most cases.

AzuraKin

hmm i didnt say anything about bol, and as for ele drain (tank should already be debuffing the phys/spell resist of the boss with s/b taunt. ele drain only returns magicka to caster in my experience (based on magesorc that uses destro staff) and neither does force siphon restore mana to anyone but caster (based on tooltip last i read it and based on all my dps toons experience).

Flameheart

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

So let the snow flakes and unicorns dance alone until they melt or vanish from exsistance we will finish up with those smart enough to stay in the glowing circle of love.

I think I just found a new signature. An "awesome" from me, thx.

On topic: As I understand the TO, he just wanted to point out the utter true fact that Healing Springs is the most awesome healing skill in the game, but to get it work all have to stand close together (which is possible for the most trial encounters and even the most 4-men-group-encounters). BoL (and therefore Healing Ward too) is a very nice support heal, you might use situational if rule number 1 (all can stand close together) does not apply or is reserved for the tank or people which have to stand outside (Archives -> The Mage for example, because there is no room for all in the middle without getting chain lightnings and the tanks standing nearby to tank the axes and atronachs).

timidobserver

AzuraKin wrote: »

hmm i didnt say anything about bol, and as for ele drain (tank should already be debuffing the phys/spell resist of the boss with s/b taunt. ele drain only returns magicka to caster in my experience (based on magesorc that uses destro staff) and neither does force siphon restore mana to anyone but caster (based on tooltip last i read it and based on all my dps toons experience).

You are wrong. You should look into what competitive groups are doing and maybe test some things yourself. Do not ever rely on tooltips to accurately tell you what an ability does.

I suspect that the people the write the tooltips and the people that code the abilities are different groups of people that don't talk to each other.

Lashiing

you dont need heal tests, you'll know within seconds if your healers are up to par
and if one is better than the other it's super obv
i keep a mental note whos good/who isnt

VampiricByNature

AzuraKin wrote: »

hmm i didnt say anything about bol, and as for ele drain (tank should already be debuffing the phys/spell resist of the boss with s/b taunt. ele drain only returns magicka to caster in my experience (based on magesorc that uses destro staff) and neither does force siphon restore mana to anyone but caster (based on tooltip last i read it and based on all my dps toons experience).

I'm sorry but you seem to have some misinformation. Ele drain actually stacks with other debuffs- there are a lot of things with different names that work together. Ele drain gives major breach for example where ransack gives minor fracture. They work together to make the bosses even weaker.

Re-read the tool tips on Ele drain and siphon spirit. (Ele says- attacks we with flame, shock or frost damage restore Magicka to the attacker)

VampiricByNature

Seeing a lot of posts makes me realize there is a definite lack of consistent info out there. If anyone is on ps4 feel free to friend me to test some things if you have any questions.

Doctordarkspawn

"And flawless conqueror? Stop telling your healer what to do. You might have a score in maelstrom as sky high as the stars but in my trial? There are no sigils here. The best I can do for you is not intentionally let you die after you wholeheartedly suggest I run ele drain. And healers? The only reason the dps are jerks to you is because you couldn't heal or buff your way thru a fight with a tin can. "

This is not just for healers, I am tired of the *** flawless conq thinking his achievement gives him the ability to magically know my tank roll and how I should run my build. Sick of it. People who think this is their 'got gud' badge need to STFU.

Gawd, Maelstrom only acts as a raid barrier nowadays and even then the people who can do it blindfolded now find NEW ways to fuel their ego and flaunt their qualification to tell everyone how to do their jobs.

LadyNalcarya

VampiricByNature wrote: »

Seeing a lot of posts makes me realize there is a definite lack of consistent info out there. If anyone is on ps4 feel free to friend me to test some things if you have any questions.

There's no consistency because healer's role is very dependant on situational awareness and other things that cannot be easily measured.
Of course, there is BiS gear for healing but healer's individual performance depends on many factors. Technically all healing checks in dungeons and trials can be passed just by spamming springs... But being able to spam one button doesnt make one a great healer.

VampiricByNature

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

"

This is not just for healers, I am tired of the *** flawless conq thinking his achievement gives him the ability to magically know my tank roll and how I should run my build. Sick of it. People who think this is their 'got gud' badge need to STFU.

Gawd, Maelstrom only acts as a raid barrier nowadays and even then the people who can do it blindfolded now find NEW ways to fuel their ego and flaunt their qualification to tell everyone how to do their jobs.

I will say that several of my really good friends are flawless. But sometimes, I could slap them! My main is a healer- I know to run ele, etc. I have started responding to dps suggesting they run their main attack. It seems to make them understand my feelings.
I think sometimes they are trying to be helpful- but pug runs make them forget the some supports take their role serious!

Ps- flawless is a HUGE deal. It is very impressive imo. Just like the maw skin. But having those things should not turn you into a buttcheek.

KingYogi415

If your healer is not running SPC, combat prayer, eledrain or warhorn, you might be in a pug.