TBS vs Spriggan vs NMG vs Two Fanged Snake

Lukums1

I'm in a heated debate with a few of my fellow players and going to put it out there to the player base to get your opinion on the following.

TBS - a Trial set and a Dungeon PVE set if someone is running NMG - This I believe to be TRUE
Spriggan - A power house set literally adding damage out the but hole with MAX stam and 4000 PEN - Downside you lose crit which ultimately forces you to run Evil Hunter or Cit Pots - Again I believe this statement to be True
NMG - A Group set passively increasing dps as a whole, also a good set but does not compete with Two Fanged Snake adding a massive 5k armour pen compared to 2.6k as well as offering weapon/stam/crit - An amazing set but doesn't compete with Two Fang Snake YOU vs AOE (solo content) - I believe this to be TRUE.
Two Fanged Snake - The perfect set for single target POWER house DPS, but wait there's an issue. For this set to be viable you MUST obtain axe/daggers SHARPEN from SO/Hel Ra Trials.
OTHER wise you will effectively lose the monster helm of Krags offering 2k armour pen straight up.

Now here's the question.

For VMA.

5 piece VO (which can't be swapped out for anything) + 5 piece NMG + Krags - totalling 4.6k armour pen (roughly)

OR

5 piece VO (which can't be swapped out for anything) + 5 piece TFN "Two Fanged Snake" + Maelstrom weapon AXE/Dagger Sharpen.

Spriggan can't be sustained easily without making changes to skills due to lack of crit supplied.
TBS doesn't compete with the sheer armour pen power of NMG/Two Fanged
NMG = 2.6 Armour Pen
Two Fanged Snake = 5k Armour Pen WITH the loss of 2k armour Pen due to no monster helm and the GAIN of maelstrom weapons.

Go.

ryanborror

First option. A lot of enemies in vma won't be hit enough times for the pen to stack from tfs. I'd also consider trying velidreth over 2 Pc kragh for vma specifically. 1 Pc kragh is awesome but I think velidreth beats out 2 kragh when doing anything with multiple targets. Also NMG is just too powerful with the added crit and pen.

Lukums1

Yeah but if you use two fanged snake it has way more pen and you get more from it as a whole.
I think you're right though khrags has been amazing for me single target but I think veli may show better results.

If I ever got two fanged snake sharp there would be no question to this.

SienneYviete

IMO penetration sets are way over hyped for running VMA with, for starters armor on mobs and bosses didn't really get normalized in one tamriel and have less armor and spell resist than in raids and dungeons. They hover around the 12k mark (tested using the 2h ultimate and checking character sheet and confirmed with damage) in vma compared to 18k in raids and dungeons so you need to be careful especially if you're a stamblade or stamdk running armor debuffs (reapers mark/noxious breath) as you will overpenetrate which does nothing for your dps. Secondly running penetration sets in vma means that you lose crit and weapon damage of which equals higher burst heals from vigor.

A really good setup especially on a stam DK using noxious breath is 5 hundings, 5 vicious ophidian, 2 kraghs or velidreth (I find the burst from veli alot more important than pen in vma but if pen means more to you then use kraghs)

Using the setup I posted on a stam dk or stam nb with sharpened weapons nets you 12375 pen with zero cp any more would be overkill.

Izaki

NMG is the best for vMA aside from proc sets like Red Mountain or Viper.

Twice-Fanged could have its uses in trials if you're the only stamina build in the raid group. Other than that, I don't consider it to be good enough for vMA as you simply won't have enough time to stack the full 5K debuff on the mobs. On bosses it could happen, but proc sets or NMG are simply better for the rest of the arena. I do use this set when I'm the only stamina build in a raid and I have to say that its very good indeed.

Spriggan is a decent set, but not for PvE as it doesn't offer any crit which kinda makes it worse than Twice Fanged. And obviously, in vMA Twice Fanged is outplayed by proc sets and NMG.

TBS are two very viable options for vMA, but in solo content penetration is more important than the extra crit damage, which isn't really used to full potential as you aren't getting Warhorns.

Kra'ghs and Velidreth are both very good options in vMA. Velidreth offers more burst which is often more important than the sustained damage that Kra'gh provides in vMA. Remember the quicker you take the trash out the quicker the next wave will spawn. Boss fights are a smaller part of the arena, so you need to minimize the time to take all the trash out. The AoE component on Velidreth is just amazing for Stage 5 and 6 in my opinion though. While Kra'gh also has an AoE component, the radius is very small.

I run Velidreth, Red Mountain and Vicious Ophidian in vMA and I gotta say, I've never seen trash melt that easily on any other set up. The extra burst damage also helps A LOT on bosses.

If I were you, I'd use proc sets instead of penetration reduction sets in Maelstrom. Viper is also very good, but doesn't proc off your bow abilities which kinda makes it inferior to Red Mountain. But then again getting RM daggers was very long and annoying. Luckily the guy who farmed the public dungeon with me, happily swapped a dagger for a sword of the Sun.


EDIT: As someone already mentioned, there's really not much point in stacking too much penetration as mobs in Maelstrom barely break the 12k. Bosses are at 18k obviously, but you only have 9 bosses in the whole arena and a few k extra penetration won't win you a whole lot of time. You have A LOT more trash mobs.

Izaki

BTW lose the vMA DW in the arena. They are useless, you never have time to apply a proper rotation on a boss. Its much easier to through all the DoTs and then spam Rapid Strikes and watch the procs go off. The results are also much better. Remember the Maelstrom Dagger+Axe is sustained damage. In vMA, you want burst.

Lukums1

That's cool guys thanks for the input so far.

You all are making very valid points.

Food for thought some more cheers!

builder680

Spriggan LITERALLY adds damage out my 'but' hole? That's awesome.

jkolb2030

builder680 wrote: »

Spriggan LITERALLY adds damage out my 'but' hole? That's awesome.

I was thinking the same thing! But then I realized it just sounds like a normal night after Taco Bell..

On a serious note - After coming back to this game after a few month hiatus, this also was very informative for me! Love the explanation here!

kylewwefan

Would you run VO and Red Mountain...no monster helm over say, VO/ NMG/Veledrith? It's a bit more than annoying trying to get VO or Red Mountain sharp daggers.

Kutsuu

Spriggan is still nice for vMA if you're not going to be running major fracture - Bloodthirst or w/e instead. Andy S makes a pretty convincing case for using Viper over Red Mountain in vMA - and 2x sharpened Viper daggers are very easy to get with the named dagger off the 2nd boss in Fungal II.

Izaki

kylewwefan wrote: »

Would you run VO and Red Mountain...no monster helm over say, VO/ NMG/Veledrith? It's a bit more than annoying trying to get VO or Red Mountain sharp daggers.

The world first 600k score used this exact setup so it is indeed very viable. I'm currently thinking of switching over to that as I think that 2 procs is kinda overkill too until stage 5 (except on bosses obviously).

Erock25

I run Spriggan over NMG. It's 60% more penetration than NMG and as a sorc i'm not running any penetration besides sharpened, Spriggan, and CP. I'm also a khajiit so I guess I don't miss the crit bonuses from NMG. You also have to consider all the times you're opening up on an enemy with no NMG proc.

Izaki

Erock25 wrote: »

I run Spriggan over NMG. It's 60% more penetration than NMG and as a sorc i'm not running any penetration besides sharpened, Spriggan, and CP. I'm also a khajiit so I guess I don't miss the crit bonuses from NMG. You also have to consider all the times you're opening up on an enemy with no NMG proc.

As a khajiit its even better to run NMG as You can push your crit dmeven higher. You only lose 1.5k penetration and you get 6% more crit. Penetration is important but you can't over stack it. You don't need any CP into pen too. Spriggan<NMG

ryanborror

When in doubt, follow jace.

Izaki

ryanborror wrote: »

When in doubt, follow jace.

^^^^^^^^^^ This

kylewwefan

not worried about penetration on my niteblade. Who is jace? Is that the Streak guy? His 600 run was inspirational....but I'm not there yet....might not ever be.

Bobby_V_Rockit

I've been trying to gear up for my first vMA run, running 5 TBS (medium, divines, stamina enchant) 5x spriggan (3 jewellry, robust, weapon damage. 2 sharp daggers, wpn damage and crusher, sharp spriggan bow on backbar, poison enchant) and 2x velidreth, medium infused head, heavy divines shoulder.

Still cant get past stage 2 lol. Also, all legendary (except jewellry) and all kuta enchant. Ah well. Maybe after the patch I'll have more luck

Lukums1

@Bobby_V_Rockit

Hey Bobby,

Best to look at my twitch videos.

Particular VMA Bible Guide + VMA Flawless Guide as highlighted in video section.

I know I've helped hundreds of people to date get their clear and if you need solid help don't be shy to send a message.

Ultimately NMG is good on sorc and NB/DK is best with TBS as we already have major fracture.

Luke