Undaunted Plunder on vDSA and vMA

Rataroto

Simple change, 1 plunder per round, 3 for final boss. 13k for vDSA complete and 12k for vMA complete. Makes sense because they are trials, and I can finally have a nice regular income on my 40 minutes vMA runs :^)

Cody_svk

I guess you meant 1 plunder for arena, not round...I like the idea, but 12k for vMA is too much when considering that people can do it in less than 45 minutes...I would say that 50% chance for 1 plunder for each arena would be okay...

Beardimus

Less than 45 mins for VMSA sounds insane!

DRXHarbinger

Cody_svk wrote: »

I guess you meant 1 plunder for arena, not round...I like the idea, but 12k for vMA is too much when considering that people can do it in less than 45 minutes...I would say that 50% chance for 1 plunder for each arena would be okay...

It's not like they'd farm it over and over for a measly 12k. It would just be a nice to have given its costs about 1.5k in repairs alone plus pots, gems etc.

Voxicity

vDSA and vMSA are not trials, they are arenas.
vDSA and vMSA are in fact trials and I'm a stupid kitten

DRXHarbinger

KaiVox22 wrote: »

vDSA and vMSA are not trials, they are arenas.

Really? I could have sworn I just saw it say...veteran maelstrom arena ( Trial ) when I just loaded in.....

Maybe I am trippin'

Voxicity

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

vDSA and vMSA are not trials, they are arenas.

Really? I could have sworn I just saw it say...veteran maelstrom arena ( Trial ) when I just loaded in.....

Maybe I am trippin'

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Trials
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Arenas

Just checked and you are indeed correct it says trial when you enter the first stage... but I can't find anywhere else they even refer to it as a trial even here http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/10/23/orsinium-guide-maelstrom-arena

It plays completed differently to a trial (round based rather than linear and story driven) so I would still consider it (and vDSA) different beasts to trials.

And I'm pretty sure the undaunted has nothing to do with the story of MSA (or DSA if im correct) so I don't think it'd make sense having 'undaunted plunders' drop there.

DRXHarbinger

KaiVox22 wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

vDSA and vMSA are not trials, they are arenas.

Really? I could have sworn I just saw it say...veteran maelstrom arena ( Trial ) when I just loaded in.....

Maybe I am trippin'

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Trials

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Arenas

Yeah actually look at the game and not unofficial created by anyone content. It says they are trials in game.....as in Zos put that wording in there.

redspecter23

This is hardly necessary and certainly not at the rate proposed by the OP. If you're getting it done in 45 minutes, your reward is your fast efficient run, your chest at the end of each round and potentially your leaderboard reward. At that pace, you can just use hobo pots instead of crafted pots as well to keep costs down. If that's not good enough, then maybe ZoS could look at enhancing the chest rewards to make the gear more useful. Undaunted plunder in vet trials is silly enough. To put over 10k worth of monetary reward into vMA is just as silly. You shouldn't be running this sort of content to make gold. You should be running it for the rewards within the dungeon.

Voxicity

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

vDSA and vMSA are not trials, they are arenas.

Really? I could have sworn I just saw it say...veteran maelstrom arena ( Trial ) when I just loaded in.....

Maybe I am trippin'

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Trials

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Arenas

Yeah actually look at the game and not unofficial created by anyone content. It says they are trials in game.....as in Zos put that wording in there.

Already edited and linked an article from http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/ mate

Voxicity

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

vDSA and vMSA are not trials, they are arenas.

Really? I could have sworn I just saw it say...veteran maelstrom arena ( Trial ) when I just loaded in.....

Maybe I am trippin'

Correction. It actually reads: Maelstrom Arena (Veteran) Trial

DRXHarbinger

KaiVox22 wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

vDSA and vMSA are not trials, they are arenas.

Really? I could have sworn I just saw it say...veteran maelstrom arena ( Trial ) when I just loaded in.....

Maybe I am trippin'

Correction. It actually reads: Maelstrom Arena (Veteran) Trial

So you're wrong then? The info supplied by the creators and writers is in fact....trial?

Voxicity

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

vDSA and vMSA are not trials, they are arenas.

Really? I could have sworn I just saw it say...veteran maelstrom arena ( Trial ) when I just loaded in.....

Maybe I am trippin'

Correction. It actually reads: Maelstrom Arena (Veteran) Trial

So you're wrong then? The info supplied by the creators and writers is in fact....trial?

Well, yeah, if it'd make you happy then yes I was wrong. It does indeed say it's a trial in game. I guess you're more observant than me

Svenja

Dragonstar Arena even is in the weekly trial's rotation.

FrostFallFox

I'd love this.

Rataroto

Cody_svk wrote: »

I guess you meant 1 plunder for arena, not round...I like the idea, but 12k for vMA is too much when considering that people can do it in less than 45 minutes...I would say that 50% chance for 1 plunder for each arena would be okay...

Most people can't speed run, if some of use can thats not an excuse to take it from us. You don't punish people for being ood man. MOST people take 1 to 2 hours to complete, "the leaderboards" are a very small % of the Stormproff people out there.

Rataroto

redspecter23 wrote: »

This is hardly necessary and certainly not at the rate proposed by the OP. If you're getting it done in 45 minutes, your reward is your fast efficient run, your chest at the end of each round and potentially your leaderboard reward. At that pace, you can just use hobo pots instead of crafted pots as well to keep costs down. If that's not good enough, then maybe ZoS could look at enhancing the chest rewards to make the gear more useful. Undaunted plunder in vet trials is silly enough. To put over 10k worth of monetary reward into vMA is just as silly. You shouldn't be running this sort of content to make gold. You should be running it for the rewards within the dungeon.

yeah that infused sword on my chest in the end is sure worth it. Plus I said I can to it under 45 minutes, most people take 1 to 2 hours

ZOS_PeterT

We have moved this thread to: Dungeons, Trials & Arenas

f047ys3v3n

vMA currently has no rewards beyond the very low rng weapons. vDSA has the still unbound gear but following the changes to gear it is not worth much. Before I think I averaged 20k in salable gear a run. Now it is maybe 2k. There is therefore no incentive to continue running these pieces of arena content if you get the gear or to start running them if you deem the very daunting RNG not worth the frustration. I do not consider this a good incentive structure. A better one would be weapons that are more reliably and reasonably obtained coupled with a monetary incentive such as undaunted loot and / or salable and valuable loot for the complete. Maybe even some Wrothgar and Yokudan motifs respectively.

I am now down to 4 deaths avg and 1:05 in vMA and even with using only very few spell power pots I use at crucial times I don't think I quite break even with pots and repair on one side and gold drops and decon mats on the other. I'm not sure how much undaunted loot would be appropriate but I do believe it is currently the least monetarily rewarding activity in game despite being one of the most challenging.

Rataroto

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

vMA currently has no rewards beyond the very low rng weapons. vDSA has the still unbound gear but following the changes to gear it is not worth much. Before I think I averaged 20k in salable gear a run. Now it is maybe 2k. There is therefore no incentive to continue running these pieces of arena content if you get the gear or to start running them if you deem the very daunting RNG not worth the frustration. I do not consider this a good incentive structure. A better one would be weapons that are more reliably and reasonably obtained coupled with a monetary incentive such as undaunted loot and / or salable and valuable loot for the complete. Maybe even some Wrothgar and Yokudan motifs respectively.

I am now down to 4 deaths avg and 1:05 in vMA and even with using only very few spell power pots I use at crucial times I don't think I quite break even with pots and repair on one side and gold drops and decon mats on the other. I'm not sure how much undaunted loot would be appropriate but I do believe it is currently the least monetarily rewarding activity in game despite being one of the most challenging.

True. The people that are against this are people who either can't complete or take 4 hours to complete. What they need to understand is that everyone will get the money, but SOME people can complete faster, and why is that bad? All they gotta do is get gud
: ^)

Lukums1

Plunder needs to be considered for VMA even with no death runs it's still 1k-1.5k gold repair.

I know it doesn't sound like a lot but jeez it would be nice to get some return.

montiferus

I would be ok with NO plunder for VMA (though it would be nice). On my stam/mag sorc I run trash stam pots so it saves me gold. On stam DK I need the better pots.

However I absolutely agree there should be plunder for VDSA. Again this all goes to balance (or lack thereof).

Here are 2 examples of Vet Trials.

VAA (non-hardmode) - The groups I usually run with do it in 37-40 minutes. You get 1 gold item (I know sometimes a crap drop like yokeda but still), 12k plunder plus whatever drops for you. There are also 2 BIS sets in there (Aether, VO). Overall very fair return on effort IMO.

VDSA - TO be fair I've run it with groups who are not experienced (which is my stupidity) so I've done as quick as an hour to as long as 4. Even if we said 1:30 that is 2 VAA runs. What do we get for it? Drops that don't really sell well because they aren't BIS and a purple master weapon (which lets be honest there are only 2 that are useable resto and bow (maybe sharpened destro). Also as a tank for the last boss is such a pain I run tripots which costs a ton of gold.

From my perspective there is very little enticement to run VDSA. Most master weapons are not BIS, the dungeon takes long and you don't get good loot. The master weapon should be gold to match the other Vet trial rewards. That way you can at least deconstruct it when you get the charged staff. If you did that with plunder (say at least 12k as with VAA/VHRC/VSO) then it would be more balanced.

Rokushoh

vMA, I digress. You get too much loot, and people can farm it under an hour super easily. Now vDSA, plunders would be good because:

1. A LOT less people run vDSA nowadays except the score suckers.
2. vDSA has no good items besides for Healers and bow users (PvP)
3. It's a team-based instance, compared to vMA, which requires coordination.

Stalwart385

I second vDSA giving plunder. 12 man trials have all bop gear and vDSA has boe gear. I think this is why it didn't have it in the first place. Thing is, vDSA gear doesn't sell. You do better breaking it down and selling the mats. That method applies to boe or bop gear. An hour long time investment should not be a sink. Without a good group, it could take much longer. Not to mention if you are shooting for a time you are probably skipping the chests. I'd be fine with plunder in the final chest and making the gear bop.

LiquidPony

Cody_svk wrote: »

I guess you meant 1 plunder for arena, not round...I like the idea, but 12k for vMA is too much when considering that people can do it in less than 45 minutes...I would say that 50% chance for 1 plunder for each arena would be okay...

@Cody_svk not sure why the time to run is really relevant. vHRC and vAA runs are faster than vMA runs. My group runs vHRC in about 25 minutes and vAA in about 30, and we're by no means a "top raid group" (the top groups can do those raids in 20 minutes). Those times line up with what the absolute top vMA people do (Andy S, Streak, Gilliam, etc. do it in about 30 minutes).