ESO out dated on release

Darethran

CossackHD wrote: »

I rarely see any DX12 game outperform DX11. Battlefield 1, horrible frametimes on DX12 while having marginally improved average framerate. All ESO needs is proper multithreading. Witcher 3 looks fantastic on DX11 and runs smoother than ESO. ESO engine is not well threaded, nothing to do with APIs.

You will find that Direct3D 11 isn't parallelizable. Now, NVidia has removed the hardware scheduler from their GPUs, so a few game engines have incorporated driver command lists, but you'll notice that NVidia GPUs don't scale up that much in the new APIs, unlike AMD, who have hardware schedulers in their GPUs. Naturally, NVidia will re-add hardware schedulers in the next couple of GPU architectures in order to keep up to speed.

But even with the best case scenario, a top-end Intel CPU with a top-end NVidia GPU, Direct3D 11 is still strangling the game. What takes more than four cores working in tandem, dedicated to providing the GPU with draw calls, Mantle, Vulkan, and Direct3D 12, can do better on just one core.

In regards to mainstream games having troubles with the newer APIs, it's the exact same thing we saw with Direct3D 9's introduction, Direct3D 10's introduction, and Direct3D 11's introduction; the developers are just getting to grips with the new API.

A big problem is that you're looking at benchmarks that are GPU limited; a fully modded Skyrim (e.g, >3x spawns + full detail characters at all distances) will issue a large number of draw calls, whereas Tekken or Dragon Ball Xenoverse won't.

Another pitfall, is that the benchmarks use extremely high end CPUs, ones that won't see much of a difference in games issuing several thousand draw calls (re: pretty much every single player game ever), when moving between the different APIs. Move to something like the FX 8350, the i3 2100, or the Phenom II x4 965 BE, and the difference will be night and day.

FriedEggSandwich

Idk OP, the game is pretty af and idc that much about the optimisation because it's not an fps. I had more criticism for BF4 if I'm honest. My biggest criticism of zos is that they lack experience, and it shows sometimes. I can't share your doom and gloom for the games industry because I still enjoy playing low-fidelity games such as minecraft, subnautica, terraria, don't starve etc. What will be will be.

Preyfar

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

They are doing something with performance and it is noticeable . For the last 2 weeks I've been able to PvP on a custom ultra high graphics setting with 45-50 FPS and low ping . I am the first one to jump with other on ZOS when performance tanks here so this no fan post at all . It's important to give constructive feedback and here it is finally . Who ever is fixing the performance issues is onto something @ZOS_GinaBruno , please let them continue with what they are doing on the PC platforms . It is noticeable .

This weekend's patch also reduced the memory requirement of character models which should, in theory, translate to a small performance increase for some players.

N2woR

Move along people, nothing to see here

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Solution: Buy a console and stop caring about the "performance increase" that is barely noticeable by 90% of non nerd humans.

Darethran

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Solution: Buy a console and stop caring about the "performance increase" that is barely noticeable by 90% of non nerd humans.

Fun fact? The consoles have way better draw call performance; their APIs are of the same vein as Vulkan, Direct3D 12 and Mantle.

If it were possible to adjust the settings on the PS4 Pro, so as to relieve the GPU (lower resolution, mainly), there isn't really a computer that could get the same framerate at the same settings.

CossackHD

MajinCry wrote: »

CossackHD wrote: »

I rarely see any DX12 game outperform DX11. Battlefield 1, horrible frametimes on DX12 while having marginally improved average framerate. All ESO needs is proper multithreading. Witcher 3 looks fantastic on DX11 and runs smoother than ESO. ESO engine is not well threaded, nothing to do with APIs.

You will find that Direct3D 11 isn't parallelizable.

And so what now? Most of FPS drops have nothing to do with on-screen draw calls. Polycount is way below what you see in Witcher 3 yet the performance sucks, CPU resource distribution is almost non-existent. Heck, I can stare at the sky while a zerg assaults a keep and I get 20FPS. Nothing to do with API, the game engine has too much to process and too little threading.

How come BF1 load my FX-8350 to 100% (yes, every single core in DX11 mode) yet ESO rarely manages to go above 30%? And if one thread is ultra heavy load (PVP zerg), the overall CPU usage decrases to 20, in other words, one core is full load while other are almost chilling. This is not graphics API issue, this is non-draw call related *** threading.

Danikat

CapnPhoton wrote: »

On the other side, there are those of us that think as much about the quality of content as the graphics, and think that just because its not using the best of this and that technology-wise it still works and is fun to play.

If you have the need to have the best and newest tech the moment it comes out, you are either very rich or very broke.

This is me. I still enjoy playing games which are 10+ years old. Like the original Bladur's Gate - I did get the enhanced edition because it's easier to install but the graphics are the same. I also do purely text-based role-play from time to time.

I really don't care if a game has the latest graphics or the newest fancy effects or whatever. My priority is fun gameplay and an engaging story, as long as the graphics are good enough that I can tell what's going on I'm happy.

Darethran

CossackHD wrote: »

And so what now? Most of FPS drops have nothing to do with on-screen draw calls. Polycount is way below what you see in Witcher 3 yet the performance sucks, CPU resource distribution is almost non-existent. Heck, I can stare at the sky while a zerg assaults a keep and I get 20FPS. Nothing to do with API, the game engine has too much to process and too little threading.

How come BF1 load my FX-8350 to 100% (yes, every single core in DX11 mode) yet ESO rarely manages to go above 30%? And if one thread is ultra heavy load (PVP zerg), the overall CPU usage decrases to 20, in other words, one core is full load while other are almost chilling. This is not graphics API issue, this is non-draw call related *** threading.

You don't know what a draw call is. It has absolutely nothing to do with polygon counts, shader intensity and all that. If you google'd the term, you'd realize pretty quick what they actually are.

A draw call is a tiny set of commands sent to the graphics driver, which the driver then distributes to the GPU. In layman's terms, a draw call would look like:

Draw Object
{
Draw Mesh mABC
With Texture tABC
Project Shadowmap sABC
}

They barely vary in size, and the CPU cost between varying draw calls is negligible; they are all expensive in terms of CPU time.

The parallel nature of a program does not hinge on a renderer. You can have parallel AI, and a single threaded renderer. You can have parallel sound processing, and a single threaded renderer. You can have parallel cloth physics, and a single threaded renderer. You can have parallel static batching, and a single threaded renderer. So on and so forth.

ESO is not a single player game. Most of the gameplay code is server-side; your computer is not calculating AI. It is not calculating quest progression. It is not calculating siege scripts. It is not calculating which player is where. Etc.

ESO is an MMO, and MMO clients are little more than interactive renderers with sound processing. And what's taking up all the CPU time, on your 8350, a rather heavily multicore CPU? The single threaded renderer. Even in the most intensive of games, sound processing will use around 10% of a single core's available processing power.

A single threaded renderer cannot be parallelized; it will only use a single core. That is why your performance is dreadful. The renderer is taking up all your CPU time, and until everything is drawn, the rest of the client's processing cannot proceed with what little else there is for the client to do.

The reason why you don't get a clean 60fps when looking straight at the ground or the sky, in an area with high object density, is that the game is not performing frustum culling on the players. Unless of course you want to have them constantly popping in and out of existence whenever you pan your camera around.

Naturally, you don't want that, so the game renders the characters even if they're not directly in your line of sight.

raglau

CossackHD wrote: »

I rarely see any DX12 game outperform DX11. Battlefield 1, horrible frametimes on DX12 while having marginally improved average framerate. All ESO needs is proper multithreading. Witcher 3 looks fantastic on DX11 and runs smoother than ESO. ESO engine is not well threaded, nothing to do with APIs.

It is related to the API: DX11 only permits one core to access the GPU at once. DX12 is not restricted in this way. DX12 is more scaleable and therefore offers developers more options for multithreading their games.

raglau

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Oddly enough, this game did run DX9. Why does it no longer? They decided with the thieves guild to upgrade for no good reason and *** their performance in the face.

DirectX9 is no longer supported by Microsoft, so you will not find any developers supporting it either, as they cannot raise a Premier call if they have issues.

mb10

well its almost 2017 now so either play the game or get out of here with your negativity

Aletheion

The Golden Age Of Gaming

https://youtube.com/watch?v=DjikLCPeUdo

-Aletheion

Tryxus

Aletheion wrote: »

The Golden Age Of Gaming

https://youtube.com/watch?v=DjikLCPeUdo

-Aletheion

I prefer my good ol' Sega Master System II, with Altered Beast, Marble Madness, Sonic the Hedgehog,...

...

Excuse, time for a retro break

Tannus15

Just want to say, you're awesome @MajinCry
All your comments on this thread have been stellar.