[Lore discussion] So if Julianos is the Owl...

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Per the Crown Store mask, Jhunal, aka Julianos, occasionally is represented by an owl. Given that Akatosh is known to be a dragon, and Kyne/Kynareth is frequently depicted in the form of a hawk or eagle...

...why it occurs to me that that's three of the nine animal forms that appear in Nord crypts. So, who is who in regards to the other six?

Rosveen

On the Nord's Totemic Religion, from Skyrim design documents.

tl;dr
bear - Tsun
dragon - Alduin
hawk - Kyne
fox - Shor
moth - Dibella
owl - Jhunal
snake - Orkey
whale - Stuhn
wolf - Mara

It was discussed quite often a few years ago, some totems were obvious (dragon, hawk, wolf), some less so. Tsun as bear and Stuhn as whale instead of the other way around was quite a surprise for me, but I guess it makes sense if you think about it.

Ghrimn

Kyne = Hawk;

Alduin = Dragon;

Orkey = Snake;

Shor = Fox;

Tsun = Whale;

Dibella = Moth;

Mara = Wolf;

Jhunal = Owl;

Stuhn = Bear.

adriant1978

Rosveen wrote: »

It was discussed quite often a few years ago, some totems were obvious (dragon, hawk, wolf), some less so.

Just curious, but how is it obvious that Mara - Goddess of Love, patron of the bountiful earth, and source of mortal compassion and understanding - would be represented by a wolf? I'm not really seeing the connection ...

Rosveen

adriant1978 wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

It was discussed quite often a few years ago, some totems were obvious (dragon, hawk, wolf), some less so.

Just curious, but how is it obvious that Mara - Goddess of Love, patron of the bountiful earth, and source of mortal compassion and understanding - would be represented by a wolf? I'm not really seeing the connection ...

Process of elimination.
If you look at the murals, three totems are represented by a female figure: wolf, hawk and moth. Conveniently, there are also three major female deities in the ancient Nordic beliefs. Mara is associated with the mothering role (though that's also part of Kyne's sphere), the protector of family - much like a close-knit wolf pack. It's not as strong a connection as some of the other gods, but still, out of all nine animals, wolf is the one that fits her best. What else would you see her as?

But then again, a lot of people were (and probably still are) sure that Tsun was whale, so... :P

adriant1978

Rosveen wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

Just curious, but how is it obvious that Mara - Goddess of Love, patron of the bountiful earth, and source of mortal compassion and understanding - would be represented by a wolf? I'm not really seeing the connection ...

Process of elimination.

Process of elimination is always a valid method when it comes to these things.

Rosveen wrote: »

If you look at the murals, three totems are represented by a female figure: wolf, hawk and moth. Conveniently, there are also three major female deities in the ancient Nordic beliefs. Mara is associated with the mothering role, the protector of family - much like a close-knit wolf pack. It's not as strong a connection as some of the other gods, but still, out of all nine animals, wolf is the one that fits her best. What else would you see her as?

Ah, I had forgotten about the figures in the murals. It's been so long since I played Skyrim ...

But yes, thinking about it you are right, the wolf fits her better than the moth and the hawk is obviously Kyne. What you said about mothering and protecting is also plausible. I guess a goddess of love and family doesn't automatically have to be soft and cuddly.

Enodoc

Most of those can be equivalated directly to the rest of the Nine as well:

bear - Tsun - Zenithar
dragon - Alduin - Akatosh
hawk - Kyne - Kynareth
fox - Shor - Shezarr
moth - Dibella - Dibella
owl - Jhunal - Julianos
snake - Orkey - Arkay
whale - Stuhn - Stendarr
wolf - Mara - Mara

Kendaric

Enodoc wrote: »

Most of those can be equivalated directly to the rest of the Nine as well:

bear - Tsun - Zenithar
dragon - Alduin - Akatosh
hawk - Kyne - Kynareth
fox - Shor - Shezarr
moth - Dibella - Dibella
owl - Jhunal - Julianos
snake - Orkey - Arkay
whale - Stuhn - Stendarr
wolf - Mara - Mara

You mean the Eight I assume Since the mighty Talos is not yet born...

Enodoc

Kendaric wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Most of those can be equivalated directly to the rest of the Nine as well:

bear - Tsun - Zenithar
dragon - Alduin - Akatosh
hawk - Kyne - Kynareth
fox - Shor - Shezarr
moth - Dibella - Dibella
owl - Jhunal - Julianos
snake - Orkey - Arkay
whale - Stuhn - Stendarr
wolf - Mara - Mara

You mean the Eight I assume Since the mighty Talos is not yet born...

No, I meant the Nine, where Shezarr fills in the final spot as the Missing Divine

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Ah; thank you for the link, I've not seen that before.

Rosveen wrote: »

fox - Shor

Fitting for Lorkhan/Shor to be a fox.