Should There Be Other Dark Brotherhood Sanctuaries for Players to Access?

Korah_Eaglecry

Ive really enjoyed running a few of my characters through the DB storyline but it nags me that there arent other sanctuaries my DB characters can access. While I understand that the main DB storyline should only be accessible from the Gold Coast. I feel like the dailies and repeatable quests should be accessible from other locations.

We have Outlaw Refuges in every Zone. Why not at least one DB Sanctuary in every Alliance for a start?

Doctordarkspawn

Likely because it would be too much work to make. it'd be cool though.

crashen17b14_ESO

What would be in the sanctuary though? Outlaw refuges have more amenities (fence, the bequeather, bank and merchant). The only think the samctuary has is crafting stations and quesy givers.

Now, if you ask me, each outlaw refuge should have a tip board and a contract board, only usable by members of the thieves guild and dark brotherhood respectively. These boards would only offer bounties for the zone they are in, rather than anywhere in the world. You would still have ti return to the main bases for heists and silencer contracts, and said bases would still offer "anywhere in the world" bounties.

Same for mage, fighter and undaunted quests. This way, you can take contracts in whatever zone you are questing or farming in, or just have a reason to hang out in your favorite zone.

I for one love working jobs in shornhelm, wayrest and daggerfall. They feel the most outlaw appropriate in terms of theme and atmosphere.

Korah_Eaglecry

crashen17b14_ESO wrote: »

What would be in the sanctuary though? Outlaw refuges have more amenities (fence, the bequeather, bank and merchant). The only think the samctuary has is crafting stations and quesy givers.

Now, if you ask me, each outlaw refuge should have a tip board and a contract board, only usable by members of the thieves guild and dark brotherhood respectively. These boards would only offer bounties for the zone they are in, rather than anywhere in the world. You would still have ti return to the main bases for heists and silencer contracts, and said bases would still offer "anywhere in the world" bounties.

Same for mage, fighter and undaunted quests. This way, you can take contracts in whatever zone you are questing or farming in, or just have a reason to hang out in your favorite zone.

I for one love working jobs in shornhelm, wayrest and daggerfall. They feel the most outlaw appropriate in terms of theme and atmosphere.

That would definitely work. It would give players more variety and allow some to stay in certain regions that they choose to call "home" or at least enjoy the atmosphere there more.

Taleof2Cities

Great idea.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

crashen17b14_ESO wrote: »

What would be in the sanctuary though? Outlaw refuges have more amenities (fence, the bequeather, bank and merchant). The only think the samctuary has is crafting stations and quesy givers.

Now, if you ask me, each outlaw refuge should have a tip board and a contract board, only usable by members of the thieves guild and dark brotherhood respectively. These boards would only offer bounties for the zone they are in, rather than anywhere in the world. You would still have ti return to the main bases for heists and silencer contracts, and said bases would still offer "anywhere in the world" bounties.

Same for mage, fighter and undaunted quests. This way, you can take contracts in whatever zone you are questing or farming in, or just have a reason to hang out in your favorite zone.

I for one love working jobs in shornhelm, wayrest and daggerfall. They feel the most outlaw appropriate in terms of theme and atmosphere.

Lore wise the Brotherhood at this time is very powerful and fear with Sanctuaries in every country. ZoS is just being lazy.

Rohamad_Ali

Yes

NewBlacksmurf

I don't know the lore well but I believe the only reason NOT is because the night mother can't be in more than one so it may be lorewise incorrect.

Korah_Eaglecry

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I don't know the lore well but I believe the only reason NOT is because the night mother can't be in more than one so it may be lorewise incorrect.

Theres multiple Sanctuaries. You travel to one of them, the one that was cleansed by the Black Dragon in Blackmarsh, during the DB storyline.

Its not the Night Mother that cant be in more than one place at one time but the Listener. I suspect that the Listener uses portals to get around when He/She needs to. And with 4 Speakers spread over Tamriel I suspect that the Listener doesnt need to do all that much.

Abeille

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I don't know the lore well but I believe the only reason NOT is because the night mother can't be in more than one so it may be lorewise incorrect.

But we don't need the Night Mother to be in more than one Sanctuary. Afaik, she isn't even in our Sanctuary in the Gold Coast anyway.

I mean, we have a Matron, so that must mean the Night Mother is in another Sanctuary.
Isn't that why we didn't have a Matron in Oblivion? Because the Night Mother was in our Sanctuary in that game? And in Skyrim, the conflict was because Astrid, who was the Matron, would have to step down after Cicero brought the Night Mother to the Skyrim's Sanctuary, no?

Anyway, we are Silencers by the end of the quest line, so we are not bound to any Sanctuary according to Speaker Terenus. There must be some sort of internal organization regarding contracts, though, but if the Speaker needs us and can't go to our Sanctuary I see no reason for us to be unable to meet him somewhere else.

Enodoc

For our purposes, the Outlaws Refuges essentially are the DB locations for the other zones. Other Sanctuaries may exist, but since they aren't our Sanctuary, we probably wouldn't be expected to know about them.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Lore wise the Brotherhood at this time is very powerful and fear with Sanctuaries in every country. ZoS is just being lazy.

They haven't really been around long enough yet to have Sanctuaries all over the place, have they?

Korah_Eaglecry

Enodoc wrote: »

For our purposes, the Outlaws Refuges essentially are the DB locations for the other zones. Other Sanctuaries may exist, but since they aren't our Sanctuary, we probably wouldn't be expected to know about them.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Lore wise the Brotherhood at this time is very powerful and fear with Sanctuaries in every country. ZoS is just being lazy.

They haven't really been around long enough yet to have Sanctuaries all over the place, have they?

They have at the very least 4 to 5 other Sanctuaries not including the one that was cleansed by the Black Dragon.

bottleofsyrup

I think there's an entrance to one in Grahtwood. I was hoping they'd use it when DB came out but they didn't.

TheShadowScout

I kinda see no point to this idea. Why add sanctuaries to other regions, if they serve no additional purpose? Now, a "local contact" DB questgiver popping up in some outlaw refugee... that might make sense...

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Enodoc wrote: »

For our purposes, the Outlaws Refuges essentially are the DB locations for the other zones. Other Sanctuaries may exist, but since they aren't our Sanctuary, we probably wouldn't be expected to know about them.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Lore wise the Brotherhood at this time is very powerful and fear with Sanctuaries in every country. ZoS is just being lazy.

They haven't really been around long enough yet to have Sanctuaries all over the place, have they?

At this point in time they are a major power. The Three Banner Armies actually hire the Brotherhood to kill enemy commanders. You could say that they are at the height of their power. Countries having multiple sanctuaries. That we can't join or find other sanctuaries is madness even with not being a member.

Simply killing in their Territory may mess up any side deals they have like guards looking the other way with one sanctuary ordering the death of so many from across the world this is likely to make us a target of other assassins.

KimberlyannKitsuragi

It should have crafting stations, marked for death quest giver, fences, merchants, a banker, and an npc for the main lines for DB and TG. It should be in the alliance capital

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

TheShadowScout wrote: »

I kinda see no point to this idea. Why add sanctuaries to other regions, if they serve no additional purpose? Now, a "local contact" DB questgiver popping up in some outlaw refugee... that might make sense...

It would serve to mix things up different targets reasons and rules. Think of a heist like instance where you had kill X target without killing Y because the contact is for someone trying to advance in rank while as few of his own men as possible. Even better they could use current buildings.

Think of being labeled an Ebonheart assassin and sent to AD or DC lands to kill military leaders and being attacked by AD or DC guard for your crimes while having a bounty of zero in EP lands so long as you don't commit crimes their.

This would also add common sense and consequences to the game why would DC guard fine you for killing AD or EP soldiers?

nimander99

They are referenced and we do

visit a cleansed one during the main questline

.

In short, yes.

TheShadowScout

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

It would serve to mix things up different targets reasons and rules. Think of a heist like instance where you had kill X target without killing Y because the contact is for someone trying to advance in rank while as few of his own men as possible. Even better they could use current buildings.

I still don't see and reason for this to require additional locations to be done by coders they have to pay for their work. Like mentioned, a DB contact in an outlaw refugee could do the job of diversified contracts just as well...

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Think of being labeled an Ebonheart assassin and sent to AD or DC lands to kill military leaders and being attacked by AD or DC guard for your crimes while having a bounty of zero in EP lands so long as you don't commit crimes their.

This would also add common sense and consequences to the game why would DC guard fine you for killing AD or EP soldiers?

And now you are talking about splitting the justice system per faction. Which actually would make sense - but would also allow an "comitt crime, wayshrine away" exploitation option, so they would have to make fast travel impossible while having a bounty, and just think of what a hassle that would be for some people...

Besides, anyone knows the guards are fining people through divine inspiration - they pray to Stendarr, and he tells them if you have been guilty or not... or something of the sort!

Korah_Eaglecry

TheShadowScout wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

It would serve to mix things up different targets reasons and rules. Think of a heist like instance where you had kill X target without killing Y because the contact is for someone trying to advance in rank while as few of his own men as possible. Even better they could use current buildings.

I still don't see and reason for this to require additional locations to be done by coders they have to pay for their work. Like mentioned, a DB contact in an outlaw refugee could do the job of diversified contracts just as well...

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Think of being labeled an Ebonheart assassin and sent to AD or DC lands to kill military leaders and being attacked by AD or DC guard for your crimes while having a bounty of zero in EP lands so long as you don't commit crimes their.

This would also add common sense and consequences to the game why would DC guard fine you for killing AD or EP soldiers?

And now you are talking about splitting the justice system per faction. Which actually would make sense - but would also allow an "comitt crime, wayshrine away" exploitation option, so they would have to make fast travel impossible while having a bounty, and just think of what a hassle that would be for some people...

Besides, anyone knows the guards are fining people through divine inspiration - they pray to Stendarr, and he tells them if you have been guilty or not... or something of the sort!

Theres plenty of things they add to the game quite often that doesnt make them money in the long run but does improve the games atmosphere. To argue something shouldnt be added just because YOU cant see why it should means nothing to me or the others who said theyd also like to see it. Sometimes, adding something to the game doesnt need to make money, just add to experience.

Abeille

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

It would serve to mix things up different targets reasons and rules. Think of a heist like instance where you had kill X target without killing Y because the contact is for someone trying to advance in rank while as few of his own men as possible. Even better they could use current buildings.

I still don't see and reason for this to require additional locations to be done by coders they have to pay for their work. Like mentioned, a DB contact in an outlaw refugee could do the job of diversified contracts just as well...

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Think of being labeled an Ebonheart assassin and sent to AD or DC lands to kill military leaders and being attacked by AD or DC guard for your crimes while having a bounty of zero in EP lands so long as you don't commit crimes their.

This would also add common sense and consequences to the game why would DC guard fine you for killing AD or EP soldiers?

And now you are talking about splitting the justice system per faction. Which actually would make sense - but would also allow an "comitt crime, wayshrine away" exploitation option, so they would have to make fast travel impossible while having a bounty, and just think of what a hassle that would be for some people...

Besides, anyone knows the guards are fining people through divine inspiration - they pray to Stendarr, and he tells them if you have been guilty or not... or something of the sort!

Theres plenty of things they add to the game quite often that doesnt make them money in the long run but does improve the games atmosphere. To argue something shouldnt be added just because YOU cant see why it should means nothing to me or the others who said theyd also like to see it. Sometimes, adding something to the game doesnt need to make money, just add to experience.

That's true, especially when it comes to voiced lines.
I always keep in mind that Elam Drals have a unique commentary for each of the thirty-something repeatable quests he can give you, while a generic "Good job, here's your pay" would be more than enough for the quest to be fully functional, but they went an extra mile and gave Elam a bunch of voiced lines and a personality that we uncover as we complete his quests.
Even more impressive is what they did with the guards. Every guard has a certain personality, and it will determine what they say when they stop you and also what they say if you run away or if you pay your bounty (there is a guard west of Shor's Stone that makes me uncomfortable ~.~). I remember the huge list of guard lines that was put together right before the Justice System went live. This was absolutely unnecessary for the efficient implementation of the Justice System. They could just have made every guard say "Stop right there!", "Pay the bounty or else!", "You are free to go" or something generic like that and it wouldn't in any way impair the functionality of the Justice System.
I'm really happy that ZOS didn't stop at what was "just enough" on these cases. Elam is my absolutely favourite character in the game because of how ZOS implemented him, and I always take into consideration if the guard is nice to me when deciding if I'm going to run or if I'm going to pay the bounty.

Enodoc

Meri20098 wrote: »

It should have crafting stations, marked for death quest giver, fences, merchants, a banker, and an npc for the main lines for DB and TG. It should be in the alliance capital

So... basically Outlaws Refuges then?

Korah_Eaglecry

Enodoc wrote: »

Meri20098 wrote: »

It should have crafting stations, marked for death quest giver, fences, merchants, a banker, and an npc for the main lines for DB and TG. It should be in the alliance capital

So... basically Outlaws Refuges then?

So....basically you think a guild of assassins, that make it their mission to be secretive and hidden and has countless enemies, should set up shop in a Outlaws Refuge. Where not just thieves are known to hang out but just about all of the riff raff that might be wanted by the local guard and authorities. A place thats not only well known by the guard and authorities but is probably harboring individuals that would give up their mother for a chance at freedom?

Sure lets just stick the Dark Brotherhood, who was just targeted by the Order of the Hour (whom probably still harbor some ill feelings for all the killings and the death of their Primate), with a bunch of untrustworthy thieves and local scum. Because that totally makes sense lore wise.

Enodoc

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Meri20098 wrote: »

It should have crafting stations, marked for death quest giver, fences, merchants, a banker, and an npc for the main lines for DB and TG. It should be in the alliance capital

So... basically Outlaws Refuges then?

So....basically you think a guild of assassins, that make it their mission to be secretive and hidden and has countless enemies, should set up shop in a Outlaws Refuge. Where not just thieves are known to hang out but just about all of the riff raff that might be wanted by the local guard and authorities. A place thats not only well known by the guard and authorities but is probably harboring individuals that would give up their mother for a chance at freedom?

Sure lets just stick the Dark Brotherhood, who was just targeted by the Order of the Hour (whom probably still harbor some ill feelings for all the killings and the death of their Primate), with a bunch of untrustworthy thieves and local scum. Because that totally makes sense lore wise.

No, I was commenting on the fact that 2/3 of Meri's suggestion was something that Outlaws Refuges already do, while the remaining things (crafting stations and quest givers for the DB and TG repeatables) are something that we've been asking to be added to Outlaws Refuges since they first became available.

What I mean is, if additional DB Sanctuaries were to be added, they would have to have a purpose that is not already covered by the functions of Outlaws Refuges.

Kodrac

You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy...

TheShadowScout

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Theres plenty of things they add to the game quite often that doesnt make them money in the long run but does improve the games atmosphere. To argue something shouldnt be added just because YOU cant see why it should means nothing to me or the others who said theyd also like to see it. Sometimes, adding something to the game doesnt need to make money, just add to experience.

I am just asking, why should the people in charge sitting in a ZOS boardroom decide to pay their code jockeys to "add experience" if they don't also make additional profit from it?
You really should realize, they are into this to make a living, not to create free entertainment. Thus that question needs be asked, and answered if you want any chance of it happening...

Now, there are plenty of things that improve the games atmopsphere, but all of them are slipped in with other works that do earn them profit, and most of them are minor additions. The topic here is adding multiple new DB bases, meaning multiple new instances regions, which is quite more work to make then most of those "atmosphere" additions. So, again, why should they shell out the money for That, when it really is not needed, instead of working on the next DLC?

I would much rather have a new guild themed DLC (Bard's Guild, anyone?) then additional dark sanctuaries in every alliance...

Enodoc wrote: »

No, I was commenting on the fact that 2/3 of Meri's suggestion was something that Outlaws Refuges already do, while the remaining things (crafting stations and quest givers for the DB and TG repeatables) are something that we've been asking to be added to Outlaws Refuges since they first became available.

What I mean is, if additional DB Sanctuaries were to be added, they would have to have a purpose that is not already covered by the functions of Outlaws Refuges.

Exactly.

As for the secrecy... what happens in the outlaw refugee, stays in the outlaw refugee, because the outlaws there know that anyone who talks about the hooded figures whispering in the corner may just find that one day their name had appeared in a certain book in the dark sanctuary, and one of those figures may be the last thing they ever see as they experience a "blade of woe"...

UrQuan

Here's an idea for additional Sanctuaries. Add them as housing that can be purchased if you're maximum rank in the DB skill line. You're not really buying the Sanctuary, you're donating to the guild for the upkeep of the Sanctuary, and you then get to live there. Functionally it's the same as regular housing, except that it's got a bunch of Dark Brotherhood NPCs hanging around in there and you can pick up DB quests there.

Korah_Eaglecry

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Theres plenty of things they add to the game quite often that doesnt make them money in the long run but does improve the games atmosphere. To argue something shouldnt be added just because YOU cant see why it should means nothing to me or the others who said theyd also like to see it. Sometimes, adding something to the game doesnt need to make money, just add to experience.

I am just asking, why should the people in charge sitting in a ZOS boardroom decide to pay their code jockeys to "add experience" if they don't also make additional profit from it?
You really should realize, they are into this to make a living, not to create free entertainment. Thus that question needs be asked, and answered if you want any chance of it happening...

Now, there are plenty of things that improve the games atmopsphere, but all of them are slipped in with other works that do earn them profit, and most of them are minor additions. The topic here is adding multiple new DB bases, meaning multiple new instances regions, which is quite more work to make then most of those "atmosphere" additions. So, again, why should they shell out the money for That, when it really is not needed, instead of working on the next DLC?

I would much rather have a new guild themed DLC (Bard's Guild, anyone?) then additional dark sanctuaries in every alliance...

Enodoc wrote: »

No, I was commenting on the fact that 2/3 of Meri's suggestion was something that Outlaws Refuges already do, while the remaining things (crafting stations and quest givers for the DB and TG repeatables) are something that we've been asking to be added to Outlaws Refuges since they first became available.

What I mean is, if additional DB Sanctuaries were to be added, they would have to have a purpose that is not already covered by the functions of Outlaws Refuges.

Exactly.

As for the secrecy... what happens in the outlaw refugee, stays in the outlaw refugee, because the outlaws there know that anyone who talks about the hooded figures whispering in the corner may just find that one day their name had appeared in a certain book in the dark sanctuary, and one of those figures may be the last thing they ever see as they experience a "blade of woe"...

If you think the board room at ZOS is making decisions about what is and isnt going into the game that doesnt directly impact the Crown Store. You should probably brush up on how managing video games work.

There is no "RIGHT NOW" mentality in my post so as far as I care it could be done tomorrow or 5 years from now. Or not at all. The point of this discussion isnt to make a pitch to the ZOS boardroom.

Abeille

UrQuan wrote: »

Here's an idea for additional Sanctuaries. Add them as housing that can be purchased if you're maximum rank in the DB skill line. You're not really buying the Sanctuary, you're donating to the guild for the upkeep of the Sanctuary, and you then get to live there. Functionally it's the same as regular housing, except that it's got a bunch of Dark Brotherhood NPCs hanging around in there and you can pick up DB quests there.

I like this idea, especially if we can take Elam with us. He probably doesn't have a place to sleep in the Sanctuary anyway (at least I couldn't identify his bed in the common dorm), that poor food addict.

Although I would like more separated rooms - with doors! - on that case. Do all the assassins sleep in the common dorm in the Sanctuary? I mean, the Matron has her own bedroom (and it doesn't even have a door, so I guess they don't care much for privacy), but no one else does.
On a side note, there aren't enough beds for everybody in the common dorm, but we can see where the people who are important to the main quest sleep and how they customized their space, which I think is a nice touch. Kor, Hildegard, Tanek, Venom, Mirabelle and Amelie seem to be the only ones with set beds, though (that leaves two beds with no distinguishable features).

Yamenstein

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

crashen17b14_ESO wrote: »

What would be in the sanctuary though? Outlaw refuges have more amenities (fence, the bequeather, bank and merchant). The only think the samctuary has is crafting stations and quesy givers.

Now, if you ask me, each outlaw refuge should have a tip board and a contract board, only usable by members of the thieves guild and dark brotherhood respectively. These boards would only offer bounties for the zone they are in, rather than anywhere in the world. You would still have ti return to the main bases for heists and silencer contracts, and said bases would still offer "anywhere in the world" bounties.

Same for mage, fighter and undaunted quests. This way, you can take contracts in whatever zone you are questing or farming in, or just have a reason to hang out in your favorite zone.

I for one love working jobs in shornhelm, wayrest and daggerfall. They feel the most outlaw appropriate in terms of theme and atmosphere.

Lore wise the Brotherhood at this time is very powerful and fear with Sanctuaries in every country. ZoS is just being lazy.

Probably are being lazy - but at the same time practical. The Sanctuary really doesn't offer much outside of quests. Maybe if they added more to the guild, some sort of specific store and loot that is obtainable from innocent NPC kills. It wouldn't be that hard for them to add a trapdoor with a cloned, smaller, instance of a sanctuary.

trav2609rwb17_ESO

This Khajiit thinks that the outlaw dens are just hiding spots that don't have any relationship to each other. Remember that to do thieves guild quests and dailies you also have to go to the sole hideout in Hew's Bane. So there is a trend that is being followed. might also have an impact that they in restricted area that require prepayment while the Outlaw dens are open to all - so could be reason we have to dash back to the relevant areas to get word (taxes would be incurred for the "services")

This Khajiit would support having easier access to both but fears there might be to much internal politics and that is why they not yet come to an arrangement to make life easier for all special operatives.