Next ESO Live needs a balance with Wrobel segment

MaxwellC

to have Wrobel for 2 hours. We need a segment called "Balance with Wrobel" for the next ESO live. Proc sets have run rampant through-out all of tamriel and has resulted in fights for example yesterday. I fought a NB he blocks, then light attack a few times till velidreth procs, incaps, and viper kicks in boom dead.
I still rely on animation cancelling for my stam dk to prevail in PvP using 2h/bow and my mag DK needs some major love. I feel that Black rose has become the new meta and almost everyone I fight uses it as I can see wrath proc then I throw them a little whisper. I feel that all proc sets need a 15 second+ cooldown timer especially velidreth,viper sting, and silenes.

PvP needs some adjustments in all honestly I feel that shields should be based off max health like Igneous shield and they should have buffs applied like Major ward or Minor ward so they cannot be stacked but if this happens the duration should be increased/reinstated. I feel that healing needs to scale off your max health not max stamina/magicka so for example vigor without major mending heals me for around 15k and my max health is 22k in PvP (16k in PvE) I believe my healing for vigor should heal half of what my health is. Obviously that's pretty huge and could be disastrous but I feel it's the step in the right direction.

Lastly I feel the return of soft caps is needed, many will disagree but I certainly feel it needs to be back. If we get soft caps back maybe the changes I want above could be removed as they will take care of themselves.

MaxwellC

I'd also like new things for PvP like a bounty system that I made a post about a long time ago listed here - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/292167/bounty-hunter-idea-for-eso#latest

mdylan2013

'Balance with Wrobel' is that some sort of comedy on Netflix? It certainly should be.

Doctordarkspawn

It would litterally be two hours of him sitting in front of a camera cracking his knuckles and going "The ballance is -fine-."

IcyDeadPeople

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

PvP needs some adjustments in all honestly I feel that shields should be based off max health like Igneous shield and they should have buffs applied like Major ward or Minor ward so they cannot be stacked but if this happens the duration should be increased/reinstated.

Which shields no longer scale based on max health?

Thought it was only the sorc class shield that scales with max magicka and bone shield with max stamina, but all others max health.

N2woR

I agree, as will most dedicated PvPers but unfortunately the likely hood of any of this happening is slim me thinks. We live in hope and who knows, if half of the things we know as PvPers are tweaked then it might draw a crowd from the PvE side

Elsonso

First, we need a next ESO Live...

Zakor

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

PvP needs some adjustments in all honestly I feel that shields should be based off max health like Igneous shield and they should have buffs applied like Major ward or Minor ward so they cannot be stacked but if this happens the duration should be increased/reinstated. I feel that healing needs to scale off your max health not max stamina/magicka so for example vigor without major mending heals me for around 15k and my max health is 22k in PvP (16k in PvE) I believe my healing for vigor should heal half of what my health is. Obviously that's pretty huge and could be disastrous but I feel it's the step in the right direction.

Lastly I feel the return of soft caps is needed, many will disagree but I certainly feel it needs to be back. If we get soft caps back maybe the changes I want above could be removed as they will take care of themselves.

1. Any of your changes ONLY if they seperate that strictly from PVE. They already said that wouldn't do that, so no
2. Shields based of health?! It's a horrible concept already with igneous shield, why would you doom all other classes too? My DK-Heal would love a redone version of igneous without 100%+ but stronger shield for group scaled on magicka.
3. Heals based of health? You are killing me...so my healer is supposed to run around with 40k HP and 10k magicka just to heal you and runs OOM the moment he casted 3 spells? I'm healer not a tank. With your idea I would be both.
4. Soft caps? Seriously? Is that horse still not dead? They are gone and that is fine, the problem aren't soft caps the problem is the max magicka/stamina meta since it boosts your damage. THAT needs to be redone.

Sorry, but imho your ideas are horrible.

Ashtaris

Although I understand your concerns with PVP, that's not the entire world of ESO. Myself, I want to get some information on the next MAJOR DLC we will be getting. Although ZOS is celebrating their one year Anniversary with Wrothgar, that was the last time we really received a major update. When are we going to see Vvardenfell or Clockwork City? Is player housing the only thing we will be getting in the next update?

Rune_Relic

lordrichter wrote: »

First, we need a next ESO Live...

Is this maternity related or just busy busy ?
I liked ESO live but if Gina is busy with the baby then

Zakor wrote: »

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

PvP needs some adjustments in all honestly I feel that shields should be based off max health like Igneous shield and they should have buffs applied like Major ward or Minor ward so they cannot be stacked but if this happens the duration should be increased/reinstated. I feel that healing needs to scale off your max health not max stamina/magicka so for example vigor without major mending heals me for around 15k and my max health is 22k in PvP (16k in PvE) I believe my healing for vigor should heal half of what my health is. Obviously that's pretty huge and could be disastrous but I feel it's the step in the right direction.

Lastly I feel the return of soft caps is needed, many will disagree but I certainly feel it needs to be back. If we get soft caps back maybe the changes I want above could be removed as they will take care of themselves.

1. Any of your changes ONLY if they seperate that strictly from PVE. They already said that wouldn't do that, so no
2. Shields based of health?! It's a horrible concept already with igneous shield, why would you doom all other classes too? My DK-Heal would love a redone version of igneous without 100%+ but stronger shield for group scaled on magicka.
3. Heals based of health? You are killing me...so my healer is supposed to run around with 40k HP and 10k magicka just to heal you and runs OOM the moment he casted 3 spells? I'm healer not a tank. With your idea I would be both.
4. Soft caps? Seriously? Is that horse still not dead? They are gone and that is fine, the problem aren't soft caps the problem is the max magicka/stamina meta since it boosts your damage. THAT needs to be redone.

Sorry, but imho your ideas are horrible.

Because you should be able to be tank/healer/dps all with one stat ?
OK.. Can I have health regen and light/heavy/ultimate DPS stack off my health please and be buffed by heavy armour.
Thanks.

Buff stacking is out of control and rock paper scissors is more like...
rock scissors scissor
paper rock rock
scissors paper paper.
Soft caps wont fix that only reduce the impact and make everyone spread out their skills to be much the same.
Gimped at source is the only fix that I can see working.

magnusthorek

Guess that what we need is less "No ETA"s

MaxwellC

@Zakor
Do note that I said those changes are disatraous but a step in the right direction. You should not be able to heal but then place a high amounts of DPS or even do high DPS and have pretty huge damage shields. That's the problem with the game in the first place, it's all about investing solely into stamina or magicka, screw health you got food for that. I can have all my stats in stamina and heal for over 15k using vigor alone but don't worry I got rally too.

Softcaps were pretty helpful back then as there wasn't such a disparity back then as it is now.

Yes shields should be based off of health, it's not like you as a mag dk have access to one shield you have 3 and potentially 4, so don't come crying about your shields especially when you can stack them. Igneous shield isn't even that bad imo as a stam dk it does just fine, I'd rather not have it increased as that would benefit us too much especially with major mending.

Heals based off health isn't necessarily a bad thing depending on how you look at it. I think as I stated before it'll be bad but exploring that region is a step in the right direction. We need heals to not solely be based off your spell damage/weapon damage and max resource which is what's giving that huge difference. You can fight a NB that has high burst but can also heal pretty fast thanks to rally/vigor or You can fight a mag templar who has high damage and high healing now is it fair.. No it's not.

I feel the game shouldn't be telling you to solely invest in one stat for the best outcome but multiple stats for a balanced outcome that provides sustain.

Jaronking

I would like this but doubt it would happen he wouldn't answer any of the real questions and just do the soft ball ones that no one care about.Plus fix dark cloak .

Zakor

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Zakor
Do note that I said those changes are disatraous but a step in the right direction. You should not be able to heal but then place a high amounts of DPS or even do high DPS and have pretty huge damage shields. That's the problem with the game in the first place, it's all about investing solely into stamina or magicka, screw health you got food for that. I can have all my stats in stamina and heal for over 15k using vigor alone but don't worry I got rally too.

Softcaps were pretty helpful back then as there wasn't such a disparity back then as it is now.

Yes shields should be based off of health, it's not like you as a mag dk have access to one shield you have 3 and potentially 4, so don't come crying about your shields especially when you can stack them. Igneous shield isn't even that bad imo as a stam dk it does just fine, I'd rather not have it increased as that would benefit us too much especially with major mending.

Heals based off health isn't necessarily a bad thing depending on how you look at it. I think as I stated before it'll be bad but exploring that region is a step in the right direction. We need heals to not solely be based off your spell damage and max resource which is what's giving that huge difference. You can fight a mag templar who has high damage and high healing now is it fair.. No it's not.

I feel the game shouldn't be telling you to solely invest in one stat for the best outcome but multiple stats for a balanced outcome that provides sustain.

Okay, let me point out something before I go on: I play this game since beta and love it since beta. You are right that soft caps back then provided some balance between min-maxing and investing in something different for better outcome. I played and loved my hybrid build back then which isn't possible to do anymore.

Anyway, I agree with yout that the current "One stat and thats it" meta is horrible but I still disagree on your ideas.

1. Shields my DK has access to scale mostly from health. Now you totally lost the point that I don't care about shields for myself. I care about shields for my group. I'm a healer damn it. As a DK you are already more tanky than anyone in your group. If I run group content and the tank is down it's no problem for my little healer to tank it until the tank is back on his feet. The real problem is that I can't really shield my group except with barrier or bone shield synergy (with "heal/shield on click" is a horrible concept imho, it's the major problem for the blood altar). You acknowledged ignoeus shield as a healer morph. So I ask you: Why would the HEALER need a stronger shield while the group dies with it's low shield? If the healer want's a strong shield he wouldn't use igneous after all. So that's the first point.
2. Heals based on health are a very bad idea also. In the current state of the game you don't need a tank for most content. So imagine what will happen if you let heals scale based on health...right, healers and tanks role get mixed up and the outcome will be a taunting and healing tankler, that forgets to block since no stam left for that. So Tanler +3DD is new meta in group content. Created another problem with the fix. If you have a problem with magplars I suggest something to reduce his healings. Also magsorcs can do massive damage and gain big shields, and magblade heal themselves as they damage you. Even DKs can do damage and heal as the damage wears of. So no problem with balance here, just strategy.

The problem at this point isn't that this is possible but that there is no meaningful alternative. Hybrid builds are dead since ages, nobody plays a +xregen set/item with less than 35k mainstat for the damage. While I see and understand the goal you want to reach I have to say that this is the wrong way to achieve said goal.

So what can we do? Well, we saw health stacking in early builds since stats had no meaning, now that they have meaningful impact we see min-maxing those stats while other stats like regen are completly or at least mostly useless. I would go for an different approach here. Why not make heals not scale with max mag/stam but with stam-/magregen while shields scale from highest stat + highest regen. This would make regen a bit more viable while solving your problem with the healing and damage dealing templars (or whatever). It would need a heck of balance adjustments tho but seems a better approach to me.

MaxwellC

@Zakor
Your first thing about shields made no sense to me when it came to your DK. You want your igneous shield to be stronger for your allys well that's just not going to happen the shield is mainly a buff skill that provides you a bit of shielding so no it's fine where it's at. Igneous shield does fine as it is now especially on my stam dk which is what I'm getting at. If you want to shield your entire group then you can invest in bastion like most mag dks do and use it although it won't be as strong it'll still take the damage + it's not like you do not have healing ward. If you feel that oh this is for a trial well sorry buddy I haven't seen anyone run a mag dk as the main healer at all and I doubt that'll start as we do not have things to restore our groups stamina easily or provide a burst heal when needed.

We as DKs aren't the 'tankiest class' we can block 10% more damage and that's literally it, if that makes us tanky then I'm not sure how your view points stack up with mine. Dks only damage is to rely on DoTs that get purged easily or healed through easily. I've got no problem with a Magplar but if they're a tank magplar then that's a problem. You talk about reduce their healing when well you can purify/purge that instantly soo yeah. Sorcs can place insane amounts of shielding upon themselves, the only way to win a fight against a sorc like that is the shield breaker set.

Your approach also seems one sided if you want to make heals for magicka scale off of max resource while stamina heals scale off of mix resource/regen then that again isn't a good approach at all. You have to make it even based now you may think well "Oh certain class styles are better than X" well that's true but magicka classes who are healing have more access to major mending + will spend more CP in their healing done opposed to that of a stamina build.

Honestly I feel that wrobel will experiment with something along the side of my idea as he stated something about making us less rely on max resource in the reddit q/a.

[–]ZOS_eWrobel

Our goal is to make it more valuable to spend points in health instead of just going all magicka or stamina. The reason this is so powerful is you're getting to deal more damage and heal yourself for more by maxing offensive stats. The current design is still in progress, so l don't have concrete details for you right now.

Link if you want actual evidence

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/546mo4/welcome_to_the_one_tamriel_eso_ama/

Rohamad_Ali

Sounds like a comedy hour ...

KochDerDamonen

So Cyrodiil is a clown act with proc sets and we should... make all defensive spells scale off max hp and break the legs of currently existing specialist builds in favor of these mystical 'hybrid's of old?


Yeah, uhhm, gonna pass on this one Jim. Every class can dps with either stat, tank and heal in most settings. ZOS added a lot of sets last patch and they're a bit out of whack.

Drummerx04

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

PvP needs some adjustments in all honestly I feel that shields should be based off max health like Igneous shield and they should have buffs applied like Major ward or Minor ward so they cannot be stacked but if this happens the duration should be increased/reinstated.

#Nerfmagsorc thread confirmed.

I'm really not sure why this is even a thing anymore. Magsorc is fairly balanced, our self heals are generally minimal, so any health damage sustained before shielding more or less stays until our shields are dropped again. A decent Magsorc can take out quite a few builds with the usual skill combo, but a decent player of any class can survive and overcome. Proc sets on magsorc can be helpful, but typically aren't over tuned like velidreth/viper/tremorscale.

The only thing in pvp that I find really problematic and not just irritating is the cast on self destro ult. I think they should either reduce EOTS damage by 30% or make it work like the original Elemental Rage morph from PTS -- ground targetted and guaranteed application of status effects to targets hit.

Zakor

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Zakor
Your first thing about shields made no sense to me when it came to your DK. You want your igneous shield to be stronger for your allys well that's just not going to happen the shield is mainly a buff skill that provides you a bit of shielding so no it's fine where it's at. Igneous shield does fine as it is now especially on my stam dk which is what I'm getting at. If you want to shield your entire group then you can invest in bastion like most mag dks do and use it although it won't be as strong it'll still take the damage + it's not like you do not have healing ward. If you feel that oh this is for a trial well sorry buddy I haven't seen anyone run a mag dk as the main healer at all and I doubt that'll start as we do not have things to restore our groups stamina easily or provide a burst heal when needed.

We as DKs aren't the 'tankiest class' we can block 10% more damage and that's literally it, if that makes us tanky then I'm not sure how your view points stack up with mine. Dks only damage is to rely on DoTs that get purged easily or healed through easily. I've got no problem with a Magplar but if they're a tank magplar then that's a problem. You talk about reduce their healing when well you can purify/purge that instantly soo yeah. Sorcs can place insane amounts of shielding upon themselves, the only way to win a fight against a sorc like that is the shield breaker set.

Your approach also seems one sided if you want to make heals for magicka scale off of max resource while stamina heals scale off of mix resource/regen then that again isn't a good approach at all. You have to make it even based now you may think well "Oh certain class styles are better than X" well that's true but magicka classes who are healing have more access to major mending + will spend more CP in their healing done opposed to that of a stamina build.

Honestly I feel that wrobel will experiment with something along the side of my idea as he stated something about making us less rely on max resource in the reddit q/a.

[–]ZOS_eWrobel

Our goal is to make it more valuable to spend points in health instead of just going all magicka or stamina. The reason this is so powerful is you're getting to deal more damage and heal yourself for more by maxing offensive stats. The current design is still in progress, so l don't have concrete details for you right now.

Link if you want actual evidence

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/546mo4/welcome_to_the_one_tamriel_eso_ama/

Again, let me go through the things you wrote one by one:

1. The shield is NO buff skill. It actually IS intended to shield the group (thats why it's affecting allies dude). A tank that naturally has high health values would use it to protect melees from cleave or aoe damage. But he would use the fragmented shield morph by nature since he wouldn't need major mending. So why would the igneous morph stay bad? Right, because of stamina dks like you that complain other healings are too weak or just use it as mini shield. It's not a problem with the shield but with other balance. Point one.
2. For your interest, I healed every content in this game with my DK-Heal so far. True, we may not have shards but in a good group that's no problem. There many ways around shards or (in raids most likely) a templar who is willing to throw some. And healing ward is no group shield and only effective when the target is around 30% health. In which world is that a comparision to shields like bone shield, barrier or even igneous?
3. It has a reason that DKs are THE class everyone thinks about when talking about tanks just like "every healer is a templar". Not only we can block 10% more damage (which is huge if you really would think about it) but we also get 3,3k magic resist which is more than a golden cp160 heavy armor chest piece. Also things like standard or magma shell or scales would need to be considered.
4. DK (or other) Dots being purged is AGAIN not a problem with the templars or purge nor the dots, it's a problem with DK passives not providing something that makes purging them hurt. And if they're a tank they can't deal as much damage or heal as a non tank magplar so you've made your own argument invalid plus your idea of health based healings.
5. If you would read my approach correctly I suggested that BOTH kinds of heal scale of regen and shields scale of a mix. Try reading before arguing.
6. The way wrobel mentions is probably (or hopefully) something different than your approach, else this game is doomed.

NewBlacksmurf

PvP cannot and will not ever be balanced because it's also PvE impacted.

The absolute only way to balance both is to seperate both completely.

Elsonso

Rune_Relic wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

First, we need a next ESO Live...

Is this maternity related or just busy busy ?
I liked ESO live but if Gina is busy with the baby then

Pretty sure it is just a change in focus and priorities. They are just spending money elsewhere. Might be that marketing did not feel it was worth the expense.

acw37162

Why?

Even if would, very few people actually listen to what he has to say and your not prurposibg actually listening to Wrobel your purposing having him sit there while everyone else tells him how bad he has jacked up the game.

Funny thing when you actually listen he's right about 85% - 90% of the time.

And I don't have time to list all the stuff players in this case PVP players have complained about incessantly needles to listen to PVP's complain about Proc sets is so exceptionally old.

Mojmir

Next eso live will only cover crown crates I'm betting,no pun intended.

KramUzibra

Yes this sounds like a great idea

Destyran

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

PvP cannot and will not ever be balanced because it's also PvE impacted.

The absolute only way to balance both is to seperate both completely.

Made plenty threads on this ages ago ever one screamed no when i suggested pvp changes to skills only be applied to battle spirit debuff so it only affects you in cyrodill. Either that or they have pvp sets and you cant leave the alliance gates till you are in full pvp gear

thankyourat

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

PvP cannot and will not ever be balanced because it's also PvE impacted.

The absolute only way to balance both is to seperate both completely.

That's not true because you can balance the game for PvP, and if need be lower or raise the difficulty of the NPC's in PvE. And everyone would be happy

Minalan

The next ESO live needs to show someone trying to play a magicka DK or magicka Sorc solo play.

In light armor.

Then try to tell us that *** is balanced after he's killed a few dozen times.

HoloYoitsu

Minalan wrote: »

The next ESO live needs to show someone trying to play a magicka DK or magicka Sorc solo play.

In light armor.

Then try to tell us that *** is balanced after he's killed a few dozen times.

I wouldn't be so sure, if they slot wall of elements, I bet they'll melt the proc builds.

sirston

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

The next ESO live needs to show someone trying to play a magicka DK or magicka Sorc solo play.

In light armor.

Then try to tell us that *** is balanced after he's killed a few dozen times.

I wouldn't be so sure, if they slot wall of elements, I bet they'll melt the proc builds.

and play as a Templar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7ft10jHwFs

arkansas_ESO

"PvP needs some adjustments in all honestly I feel that shields should be based off max health like Igneous shield"

This would gut light armor users and magic in general, but magic sorcs and magic NBs in particular. If you changed this you'd basically have to rework two entire classes on top of reworking light armor.

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

PvP needs some adjustments in all honestly I feel that shields should be based off max health like Igneous shield and they should have buffs applied like Major ward or Minor ward so they cannot be stacked but if this happens the duration should be increased/reinstated.

Which shields no longer scale based on max health?

Thought it was only the sorc class shield that scales with max magicka and bone shield with max stamina, but all others max health.

Annulment scales with max magicka.

Thealteregoroman

I personally wouldn't mind watching wrobel for a few hours........<3 lol