Should BOP be removed ?

ForsakenSin

YES remove the useless BOP on all items ( not including VMSA drops)

Morbash wrote: »

BoP and RNG are killing ESO for me. Please ZOS, change BoP to BoE on everything except vMA and Master weapons. Add a token system to vMA.

thats right!

this is what supposed to happen it will fix everything the 1000 of VMSA runns and not getting a drop they need , the economy would get a kick start again and people would actually start playing the game again

Rev Rielle

Honestly, they should remove it for everything. If a player is good enough to do some particular content and get the reward or lucky enough to get something otherwise, I think that reward should have more value to them than just being something they have to use themselves. They should also be able to get the monetary reward of being able to sell it if that's what they want.

Similarly if a player has worked hard for a lot of gold or otherwise, then they should be able to purchase a difficult to achieve item that they otherwise would not be able to attain.

Just think if we had a BoP mentality in real life how crazy it would be. I think North Korea as much as anywhere has such, and just look at them. No, BoP is not good.

ForsakenSin

YES remove the useless BOP on all items ( not including VMSA drops)

"Just think if we had a BoP mentality in real life how crazy it would be. I think North Korea as much as anywhere has such, and just look at them. No, BoP is not good."


LOL that is awesome so true imagine a real life with BOP heheheheh

alexkdd99

YES remove the useless BOP on all items ( not including VMSA drops)

STEVIL wrote: »

i voted no leave it as it is because the poll is obviously intended to be self-serving.

if YOUR fun is being hit because of BOP getting between you and your objectives, then its hypocritical to complain and start a poll about it but refuse to consider letting ALL BOP go away as even an option in your poll.

IMO, excluding the option to vote for making ALL BOP gone... thats saying "but hey lets get a poll which supports me getting what i want and who cares about anyone else."

SOme people will say BOP deserves to be in for "accomplishment" and "things earned".

Some will say that about VMSA-hard mode.
Some will say that about the dungeons you worry about.

But you dont want to say "sorry your VMSA hangup is bad for other players to the former so you construct a poll that eliminates that.

So i vote no to your proposition.

EITHER BOP is an OK mechanic to be employed in the game to enable fun for those wanting "special limited gear they earned" or "its not" and the dividing line should not be decided by whether or not a particular piece of gear is in your amazon wishlist.

That said, there are now so many drop sets of every flavor out there with many many things dropping from chests.... its not like there aren't very good options for building/buying sets you can be competitive in.

He stated why vma drops were left out in a post above yours. Have you not seen the countless post of people arguing about vma?

Wanting them to revert changes is quite a bit different than asking them to change something that was never Boe to being boe.

Has nothing to do with Amazon wishlist as you say. If you can not see the difference between vma weapons and literally every other item in the game then there is no point in discussing this.

Waseem

remove that *** BoP or introduce token system or introduce trait change
we want useful ***

Yamenstein

NO leave the BOP as it is, you need to earn the items.

They might as well remove normal dungeons then and just have vet ones for the monster masks. People will complain. But no need to have them as you aren't playing for loot.

If everyone could buy every single gear piece then it will just lead to people playing less of the game due to dislike of doing that content. You think role players are going to be playing this game longer than those who play for continuous farming/gearing? I doubt it. You think you will enjoy the game when you don't have a reason to do the content? I doubt it. Someone said they want to get straight into end game instead of worrying about farming for gear and wasting time. What are you going to do the content for?! It makes no sense whats so ever.

As I said before, Zos you might as well get rid of CP grind, motifs, and any form of farming because people just want the easy way out and have everything given to them. Everyone can craft any gear sets! Yay. Everyone can craft every motif! Yay. Everyone can have 561CP! Yay. We all love stories right? I know I love the dungeon stories. Im not 100% sure how often I would play those dungeons for JUST the story, but obviously everyone that doesn't want to farm must love them more than me.

---

Honestly thought. If they change anything they should just make trial gear BoP, dungeon gear BoE. Increase chances of training and prosperous trait drops. Or maybe even have it so that only vetDungeon drops are BoE.

OR keep as it currently is and just remove or change what training and prosperous traits do slightly so they are better. I can believe that drops are skewered towards those two traits even though in vet dungeons I normally end up looting sturdy or infused traited pieces. The chance of getting divine and or impenetrable isn't that much more lower than the other traits. It just works out that I get the good traits for gear sets I don't really need. I suppose sharpened is the hardest trait to get, so maybe they can increase the chance of getting those slightly.

I am curious though how many of you, not just the commentors but also the voters, are min-maxers? Do sharpened traits matter so much to you that you need it to get closer to 50k DPS or are you still trying to get over 20k -_-

ForsakenSin

YES remove the useless BOP on all items ( not including VMSA drops)

@Yamenstein


I appreciated your input and this is what forum is about to get all points of view but im not sure what you are trying to say there buddy ... sorry maybe its just me but ...to me your all over the place ...

however i will try to see if i can respond to that somehow if anybody has better response please go ahead

People will still do doungens and run trials even if the items are BOE same as they did before, and here is why

1) they dont have money and want to get the item
2) they want to farm and sell it to get gold so they can buy mats or other items they need
3) undaunted to get the key and try their RNG to get the actual shoulders they need.
4) achivments / speed runs
5/ training the new people in guilds and preparing them for trials ect.

before the update i believe the ratio betwen BOP and BOE was significant there were many items that were BOE and few that were BOP.



I am curious though how many of you, not just the commentors but also the voters, are min-maxers? Do sharpened traits matter so much to you that you need it to get closer to 50k DPS or are you still trying to get over 20k -_-

if you are a player in any MMO you want to be the best you can be , i believe this is just the way most humans are we compete in everything to be better then other person or to be best and be proud , so its only natural you want that extra %2 to push you over the limit. I guess unless you just don't care i or are lazy then there are people like that so they would not care what trait they get but then again those are probably the same people who complain when they get kicked out of dungeon for doing 10k damage when they should be doing 30-40k minimum.

Then there are also theory crafters out there who LOVE to experiment with different builds and are wasting so much time trying to get all of the right items to try it out.


Like i said to me BOP affects allot of people

Iyas

YES remove the useless BOP on all items ( not including VMSA drops)

I dont see any reason for bop at all.

Alucardo

Ehhh I'm still in the air about it. vMA, vDSA, undaunted sets, and end game trial gear should always remain BoP. Everything else I don't care too much about. There should be some gear in the game that says "Hey, I earned this". It also promotes people to try different things.

One change I would like to see is having the shoulders you pick up from undaunted chests tradeable to your group (similar to the helmets) for a period of time. So in a way, the undaunted keys are linked to the dungeon you got them from, and the group who helped you get the keys. That would be pretty cool.

There's no real reason for group dungeon gear to be BOP.

lardvader

YES remove the useless BOP on all items ( not including VMSA drops)

Well to the ones who say we play the game for the rng - well this is right but I think we play the game for the wrong reasons.

We are more forced to play the game this way since the developers are not confident enough in their product. I would for once focus on things I enjoy instead of soloing COA every day for a destro spellweave staff.

Grinding trials for gear made me take a months pause the last time and it's gonna be grinding for gear the next time as well.

This is the main reason I'm still on the fence with vMA. I refuse to jump on that train and create that "need" to have those weapons in best trait.

Remove BOP and lower the drop rate IMHO.

Sunburnt_Penguin

YES remove the useless BOP on all items ( not including VMSA drops)

I've done COA1 >300 times now and not once have I (and I'm guessing nor has anyone that I've grouped with as I offer a lot of gold) dropped the sharpened inferno of BSW.

Someone in a guild I'm in got it on their first run whilst another person I farmed with bought it after >200 runs.

How does earning come in to this when there's such a disparity of RNG?
- The guy who got it on his first run didn't earn it: he got extremely lucky.
- The guy who bought it after >200 runs didn't earn it: he got lucky that someone in his group got lucky.
- Me not getting it after >300 runs isn't me not having earned it: it's just me not being lucky.

There's no earning involved when randomness is present in group content that I can solo with my eyes closed: it's simply luck or a lack thereof.

From me getting excellent drops in other dungeons, I know that there's going to be people who've dropped this and have no use for it so it just sits in their bank or gets deconned, whilst others are farming it and have no way to get it off them. The people who got lucky could've made a lot of gold from listing it at a trader and then used that gold to buy whatever the hell they want. But no, they'll have to farm gold/sets themselves because ZOS thinks that just because someone gets a drop they want that their playtime is in danger of decreasing.

Just so you know, ZOS:
- I'm not going to stop playing or reduce my playtime once I get this inferno (why tf would I be farming it if so)
- My playtime hasn't gone up just because I'm farming it (as I have finite playtime available)
- My time spent farming this isn't going to increase the total time that I'm playing the game for.

All this is doing is reducing my enjoyment of the game because it's taking me away from doing things that I like doing. I'm not going to get a lob on when I get it and then plan on farming something else for 100s of hours because I want that excitement back: it won't be excitement, it'll be a relief.


Just take 1mill gold out of my account and mail me that *** sharpened inferno! (pls & ty bb )

disintegr8

@Yamenstein - people play for their own reasons and while there might be a lot of people farming for gear, not everyone is doing so. I run dungeons to level up new characters in the Undaunted line, catch up and run with friends, helping them level up and to have fun.

Changing everything to BOE will not stop people running dungeons or trials, as the stock people are selling still has to come from somewhere. The people that want to make money selling items will still be happy to go and farm them because they benefit from it.

KimberlyannKitsuragi

YES remove BOP on all items except for trials drop ( not including VMSA drops)

I can definitely agree to wanting the BOP removed. What if I want to sell something that's bound? Obviously I can't on the guild store and sometimes I can't to a merchant so all I can do is destroy it. I could use the money or mats

Milvan

NO leave the BOP as it is, you need to earn the items.

Do you want your gear? Get out there and farm it. Buying gold online to have a BIS is stupid.

Azuramoonstar

NO leave the BOP as it is, you need to earn the items.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

i'm guessing all people voting yes are new to MMO.

most people who are not new to mmo would love this.

@Azuramoonstar

Please explain your comment. Considering there was a lengthy thread in the pts forums about concern that. BoE gear was being removed from the trials I would suggest the results would be opposite.

Maybe I have misread your comment.

people who want removal of the BOE/BOP are too new to mmorpg to fully understand why this is in place.

BoP and BoE itens are to prevent a few things based on the game, and the games age.

In EQ/EQ2 it was put in place to prevent mass looting of corpses due to the open world PK system.

Now a days, BoE/BoP items are to help curb rmt activity. FF11 is an older mmorpg that didn't have as much BoP/BoE gear but due to increase in rmt activity, such as their bots farming the world bosses, they made changes.

Now a days, games have most high end gear, outside crafted gear, to be under the BoP and BoE to help in preventing rmt.

Like in ff11, before the change, you could sell any gear outside endgame gear, the economy became a stagnate inflated mess. Then SE changed it took out billions of currency from the system(rmt they banned) to help fix the issue.

People who are not new to mmorpg, enjoy BoP/BoE due to rmt reasons, and it makes people earn it.

I don't use the ptr so i don't read threads, but due to the amount of voting for its removal, it makes it pretty obvious that most eso forum community is new to mmorpg.

xeNNNNN

YES remove BOP on all items except for trials drop ( not including VMSA drops)

There was no other option but this so;


I want it removed from dungeons sure, but trials including vMA no. vMA stuff needs to be "earned" thats the whole point.

As for trials its the same principal and thats part of the fun for the entire group too especially when you can trade between eachother completely free. I dont want too see gold trial jewellery on the guild stores its just.....No. No no no. I earned mine. So did my friends and I dont want too see anyone charging stupid amounts for them. IF people want them they should earn them. The tradable for a certain ammount of time is perfect and BoP doesnt need removing from trials because of this.

Dungeons are different they are quick and fast and frankly the RNG right now is pain. BoP should be removed from dungeons only.

Azuramoonstar

NO leave the BOP as it is, you need to earn the items.

Iyas wrote: »

I dont see any reason for bop at all.

play an older mmo w/o b.o.p and see how much rmt you gotta deal with. It isn't pretty.

Necrelios

YES remove BOP on all items except for trials drop ( not including VMSA drops)

Okay so for something as infuriatingly grind happy as VMA I'd like to see a token or reputation system set up where you can work towards earning your gear. The current RNG system is like leading you with a carrot in one hand and a big beating stick in the other.

LEGENDARYYY

YES remove the useless BOP on all items ( not including VMSA drops)

I loved making new builds in ESO. Thats what I spent most of my time and money on. Right now when I go into eso wiki and theorycraft, I always end up needing items that are BoP. This leads me to just exit the game and play something else. I have already farmed dungeons for ages for a slim chance of getting what I need, its unbearable. I've ran CoA 20 times and gotten 0 divine bsw pieces for example, its NOT fun. I will not spent 10 hours in a game and get nothing but frustration in return.

Volrion

YES remove the useless BOP on all items ( not including VMSA drops)

It certainly feels quieter around the main hubs of late...

Dungeon finder seems very slow compared to before BOP was implemented also.

Trading was such a great part of this game! The traders in Mournhold used to have crowds all around them. Sadly, they are dead now.

I am bored of grinding the same *** dungeons over and over.

It really doesn't make sense. Isn't ZOS business model about DLC purchases and crown store cosmetics.

How is keeping us in game doing boring content providing anything positive for either party?

Dungeon grinding won't increase ZOS revenue, and it will result in the player base quitting from boredom.

EVERYBODY LOSES!

I just don't get it. The most consistent complaints on these forums are PVP performance, and end game RNG.

So what do they do?

BoP.

Gg ZOS, gg.

dday3six

I say leave it, but I didn't vote because the no option doesn't accurately reflect my opinion. Which is without BOP bots and hackers would run rampant with an economy that better supported RMT.

MasterSpatula

BOP absolutely has its place.

Bound to Character, however, does not. Maybe on the very, very most exclusive items in the game, but even then, only if the item is not random. (For example, I shouldn't be able to do something like vMA on a Mag character and choose a sharpened dagger for a Stam alt, but if I do vMA on a Mag character and the game gives me a Sharpened dagger, that absolutely needs to be bound to account, not character.)

Tannus15

NO leave the BOP as it is, you need to earn the items.

BoP is fine.

it's the RNG you're complaining about. The drop RNG is painful in this game, mostly because they don't want to "limit" the loot pool.

Sure, they could make destro inferno the only weapon to drop for burning spell weave, but what about that magi DK who wants to run dual swords?
Or resto on the back bar?
Or sword and shield.
Stupid magi DK's

Most of the complaints have been around the fact that sharpened is so much better right now than everything else which means 8 out of 9 possible drops are undesirable.

The problem is that ZoS have put a genuinely random drop system in place with a MASSIVE pool of items. It needs to be a LOT more intelligent.
For a start it should weight the type of items dropped for you by the gear you're actually using.
Secondly they need to either nerf sharpened, buff everything else, or fix the resists on mobs. Sharpened shouldn't be so far ahead that for all DPS drops 8 or 9 traits are a waste of time.

Tannus15

NO leave the BOP as it is, you need to earn the items.

SourishWhale wrote: »

It certainly feels quieter around the main hubs of late...

Dungeon finder seems very slow compared to before BOP was implemented also.

Trading was such a great part of this game! The traders in Mournhold used to have crowds all around them. Sadly, they are dead now.

I am bored of grinding the same *** dungeons over and over.

It really doesn't make sense. Isn't ZOS business model about DLC purchases and crown store cosmetics.

How is keeping us in game doing boring content providing anything positive for either party?

Dungeon grinding won't increase ZOS revenue, and it will result in the player base quitting from boredom.

EVERYBODY LOSES!

I just don't get it. The most consistent complaints on these forums are PVP performance, and end game RNG.

So what do they do?

BoP.

Gg ZOS, gg.

ROFL. you're comparing pre 1T dungeon activity to post 1T dungeon activity.
Remind me again what you were doing in dungeons before 1T was released? Hoping for that very rare will power weapon?
What a joke.

Before BoP for dungeons there was ZERO incentive to run any dungeons apart from the daily reward because all those BoE items in the dungeons were trash.
Utter trash.

I don't remember anyone selling cp140 purple "Stormcallers blade" which wasn't part of a set.

You know what was selling well? Elegent Sharpened sword from trials. Which are still BoE, just not in trials anymore.

"Dungeon grinding" as you put it increased the viable content for this game by 16+ dungeons. BoP. Before good gear was dropping from dungeons there was ZERO incentive to run non vet dungeons because every single thing they dropped was crap.

There are 16 zones which drop BoE gear to sell, some of it BiS. This is more than double the pre-1T available BoE gear on traders.
As a result 16 zones are now viable content for end game drops.

Most stamina builds are using Spriggan, dropped from Bankorai.
A lot of sorcs want Elegant from Auridon.
Thunderbug from Malabal Tor is awesome.
Seventh Legion Brute from Bankrai is also great.
Soulshine from Rawl'ka
Red mountain from stonefalls

And this is just stuff I'm personally buying from vendors.

In a nut shell, I'm saying you're full of it.
Trial groups no longer hold a monopoly over the trade in ESO and not all BiS drops from trials anymore. That's what 1T did.

Get over it.

ForsakenSin

YES remove the useless BOP on all items ( not including VMSA drops)

Tannus15 wrote: »

SourishWhale wrote: »

It certainly feels quieter around the main hubs of late...

Dungeon finder seems very slow compared to before BOP was implemented also.

Trading was such a great part of this game! The traders in Mournhold used to have crowds all around them. Sadly, they are dead now.

I am bored of grinding the same *** dungeons over and over.

It really doesn't make sense. Isn't ZOS business model about DLC purchases and crown store cosmetics.

How is keeping us in game doing boring content providing anything positive for either party?

Dungeon grinding won't increase ZOS revenue, and it will result in the player base quitting from boredom.

EVERYBODY LOSES!

I just don't get it. The most consistent complaints on these forums are PVP performance, and end game RNG.

So what do they do?

BoP.

Gg ZOS, gg.

ROFL. you're comparing pre 1T dungeon activity to post 1T dungeon activity.
Remind me again what you were doing in dungeons before 1T was released? Hoping for that very rare will power weapon?
What a joke.

Before BoP for dungeons there was ZERO incentive to run any dungeons apart from the daily reward because all those BoE items in the dungeons were trash.
Utter trash.

I don't remember anyone selling cp140 purple "Stormcallers blade" which wasn't part of a set.

You know what was selling well? Elegent Sharpened sword from trials. Which are still BoE, just not in trials anymore.

"Dungeon grinding" as you put it increased the viable content for this game by 16+ dungeons. BoP. Before good gear was dropping from dungeons there was ZERO incentive to run non vet dungeons because every single thing they dropped was crap.

There are 16 zones which drop BoE gear to sell, some of it BiS. This is more than double the pre-1T available BoE gear on traders.
As a result 16 zones are now viable content for end game drops.

Most stamina builds are using Spriggan, dropped from Bankorai.
A lot of sorcs want Elegant from Auridon.
Thunderbug from Malabal Tor is awesome.
Seventh Legion Brute from Bankrai is also great.
Soulshine from Rawl'ka
Red mountain from stonefalls

And this is just stuff I'm personally buying from vendors.

In a nut shell, I'm saying you're full of it.
Trial groups no longer hold a monopoly over the trade in ESO and not all BiS drops from trials anymore. That's what 1T did.

Get over it.

I have to disagree with you on some parts , yhea you are correct that before 1T people were running dungeons to get the monster helm and doing pledges , however the SourishWhale is right before 1T finding randoms or specific dungeons was quick and fast to find pugs some who needed teaching ect

You mentioned the items that are BOE and that are selling and you are right however at what price? i picked up soulshine in divines for 2k a piece cp 160.. now why do you think that is ? let me explain ..

If you have 10 sets BOE out of 50 .. people will be farming only those that they can sell and thus heaps of the same items are in guild traders and prices go down dramatically because its over populated if you have 50 sets BOE you mix the pool in sales and thus making the prices more fair and not decreasing as such... its simple.

Now if you are ok with selling say Soulshine shoulders for 2k while your guild traders increasing the weekly donation instead of selling the same item for 20k gold which they were before .. thats up to you however this is not good for economy when you pigeonhole so much what you can sell prices and economy crashes.

Trial groups no longer hold a monopoly over the trade in ESO and not all BiS drops from trials anymore. That's what 1T did.


they never did actually ? i don't know where you got that idea as i was always invited by random players to join...have you done it before?

Anyway ... before you could pick up gold DKS ring for 70k-150k which went to the Trial group player which mean they could re stock in potions repairs and help the other people gear up in doing more Trials now when most if not all items are BOP in Trial not many people are running it. And please don't tell me those who do not do Trials should not be able to able to get DKS gold ring because the golden vendor was selling them for 250k and also viper rings ect.

BOP is bad for players and bad for economy.

SaRuZ

I think it should be more complex loot system. Instead of RNG why not make it so each piece of a set you wear increases your chances of getting those set pieces. Let's say you equip a Viper axe with Sharpened traited. Your chances of finding another sharpened viper weapon is increased by 10%. Same for Armor. The more pieces you equip the higher chance you have of looting more set pieces.

Tannus15

NO leave the BOP as it is, you need to earn the items.

ForsakenSin wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

SourishWhale wrote: »

It certainly feels quieter around the main hubs of late...

Dungeon finder seems very slow compared to before BOP was implemented also.

Trading was such a great part of this game! The traders in Mournhold used to have crowds all around them. Sadly, they are dead now.

I am bored of grinding the same *** dungeons over and over.

It really doesn't make sense. Isn't ZOS business model about DLC purchases and crown store cosmetics.

How is keeping us in game doing boring content providing anything positive for either party?

Dungeon grinding won't increase ZOS revenue, and it will result in the player base quitting from boredom.

EVERYBODY LOSES!

I just don't get it. The most consistent complaints on these forums are PVP performance, and end game RNG.

So what do they do?

BoP.

Gg ZOS, gg.

ROFL. you're comparing pre 1T dungeon activity to post 1T dungeon activity.
Remind me again what you were doing in dungeons before 1T was released? Hoping for that very rare will power weapon?
What a joke.

Before BoP for dungeons there was ZERO incentive to run any dungeons apart from the daily reward because all those BoE items in the dungeons were trash.
Utter trash.

I don't remember anyone selling cp140 purple "Stormcallers blade" which wasn't part of a set.

You know what was selling well? Elegent Sharpened sword from trials. Which are still BoE, just not in trials anymore.

"Dungeon grinding" as you put it increased the viable content for this game by 16+ dungeons. BoP. Before good gear was dropping from dungeons there was ZERO incentive to run non vet dungeons because every single thing they dropped was crap.

There are 16 zones which drop BoE gear to sell, some of it BiS. This is more than double the pre-1T available BoE gear on traders.
As a result 16 zones are now viable content for end game drops.

Most stamina builds are using Spriggan, dropped from Bankorai.
A lot of sorcs want Elegant from Auridon.
Thunderbug from Malabal Tor is awesome.
Seventh Legion Brute from Bankrai is also great.
Soulshine from Rawl'ka
Red mountain from stonefalls

And this is just stuff I'm personally buying from vendors.

In a nut shell, I'm saying you're full of it.
Trial groups no longer hold a monopoly over the trade in ESO and not all BiS drops from trials anymore. That's what 1T did.

Get over it.

I have to disagree with you on some parts , yhea you are correct that before 1T people were running dungeons to get the monster helm and doing pledges , however the SourishWhale is right before 1T finding randoms or specific dungeons was quick and fast to find pugs some who needed teaching ect

You mentioned the items that are BOE and that are selling and you are right however at what price? i picked up soulshine in divines for 2k a piece cp 160.. now why do you think that is ? let me explain ..

If you have 10 sets BOE out of 50 .. people will be farming only those that they can sell and thus heaps of the same items are in guild traders and prices go down dramatically because its over populated if you have 50 sets BOE you mix the pool in sales and thus making the prices more fair and not decreasing as such... its simple.

Now if you are ok with selling say Soulshine shoulders for 2k while your guild traders increasing the weekly donation instead of selling the same item for 20k gold which they were before .. thats up to you however this is not good for economy when you pigeonhole so much what you can sell prices and economy crashes.

Trial groups no longer hold a monopoly over the trade in ESO and not all BiS drops from trials anymore. That's what 1T did.


they never did actually ? i don't know where you got that idea as i was always invited by random players to join...have you done it before?

Anyway ... before you could pick up gold DKS ring for 70k-150k which went to the Trial group player which mean they could re stock in potions repairs and help the other people gear up in doing more Trials now when most if not all items are BOP in Trial not many people are running it. And please don't tell me those who do not do Trials should not be able to able to get DKS gold ring because the golden vendor was selling them for 250k and also viper rings ect.

BOP is bad for players and bad for economy.

Sorry, but I honestly don't think your argument holds up.

You can make dungeon gear BoE, but the content isn't hard to do so you'll still get over saturation in the market except for the really rare sharpened weapons. And because of the difficulty of getting specific traits weapons you'll flood the market with divines armour of all types and it'll shortly be selling for the same price as the current BoE gear you mentioned.

Running trials regularly is harder to do. You can't solo AA for drops like you can FG1. Just getting 12 people in a group takes as long as a solo run through vFG1. Trials groups DID hold a monopoly over the market because it was the only place BOE cp160 gear dropped. Sure you could get a pick up group on occasion, but the majority of "trade" was from HM groups, which do not just take some random.

There are core problems with itemisation in ESO at the moment. The most blatantly obvious is how much better sharpened is vs everything else, but I don't think BoP is really an issue.

ForsakenSin

YES remove the useless BOP on all items ( not including VMSA drops)

@Tannus15

I appreciate your opinion and not everybody will agree this is what makes forums great to see other point of view


In the first page of this i linked where one guy was running the same thing over 200 times and no drop.
Regarding the saturation of the market i don't believe that, as mentioned before the more items are BOE the greater the pool gets and more random it would have taken a year or more for every guild trader to get all items of the same trait the same weight and to be stocked with those items .

As mentioned the less items now are BOE the more people will get it and sell it overpopulate the traders hence why the soulshine is like 2k there is heaps of them available if there was 50 sets available imagine how wast that is 50 sets in all different traits and weight.

I understand we might not agree on many things but surly you must see the point in economy if you can only sell say 10 things as other 100 players those 10 items will drop in price because everybody is getting them and trying to outbid to sell and prices crash. if you have a choice of 1000 different items how much competition will you get ? out of 1000 items and say 100 players what are the chances they will pick up the same set the same trait the same weight to undercut your sale.
And even if they got the same item and selling it what are the chances they will be in the same guild trader as you ?

Its simple economy the less items are available for sale the more people will be selling only those items as everything else is locked... the more items are available for sale the less of a competition.

Im sure you can understand my point there the less items available for sale the more saturated the market is.

Im not sure on what platform you are on but please have a look at the prices in items now ... supply and demand ... on xbox NA soulshine i picked up all pieces for about 2k -3k each no more ...


Give it time and all of the pieces that are BOE as there are so few of them will be selling for nothing.


"Running trials regularly is harder to do. You can't solo AA for drops like you can FG1. Just getting 12 people in a group takes as long as a solo run through vFG1. Trials groups DID hold a monopoly over the market because it was the only place BOE cp160 gear dropped. Sure you could get a pick up group on occasion, but the majority of "trade" was from HM groups, which do not just take some random."

I agree with you on that one to a point however if you are in a guild that runs trials its easy , i was always invited by them or by random people looking for DPS or a healer which i have and i suppose as long as you are cp 500 plus i don't see why you would say they don't take some random ? people are always looking to do trials i even started few of my own as well, just put in chat looking for people to run trials and you will be surprised how quickly people will pm you to join last night i ran 2 of them and we had one cp 80 lol and it was fine.

There were many items available for sale however you are right DGK gold ring was from trials and few other items as well however that is understandable as it is 12 man and it can cost money and time ect but as i mentioned is easy to find a people who want to do it , before there are people who just want to farm that all day so if you had time you can do that and get gear for your self or sell it make profit


"There are core problems with itemisation in ESO at the moment. The most blatantly obvious is how much better sharpened is vs everything else, but I don't think BoP is really an issue."

Well actually that is just the thing.... because sharpened is so much better then everything else you are pigeonholed in getting that and to get that chances are 1-641 so how much runs will you do to get that sharpen weapon until you quit ? once when you are doing the same content over and over and over and over and over again over 200 runs and got a staff in training or some other bs gear ... trust me you will wish instead of wasting all this time you could of just bought it for 50k gold and join your friends in PVP or something else you would rather do with your friends.


In the end BOP is bad is bad for economy now could this be fixed ? yes it can be as @SaRuZ said if you have one set of item your chances increased to find the same set by 10% of each item you have on Or remove BOP.

This would be as they call smart RNG however until we have that we are stuck in doing the same thing over and over and over again until you have enough move on. With us gamers there is a line .. we want game to be competitive it can't be too hard or too easy but we need to have a self achievement a reward in the end for the time and hard work we put it in order to fell some kind of accomplishment when that fades and you are doing the same thing you loose interest.

This is why mmos always have new content new items new cp level ect to keep us interested. But by doing the same thing without any reward you slowly loose interest. Just look at how many pols were made or how many threads are made regarding VMSA people done it over 400 times without getting the item they need NOW im not saying that should be for sale ect no im saying if maybe there was a smart system or a token system or a 2 man things would be better.


Anyway i am jealous of you that either you have all the gear you need so you don't need to farm to finish your build or you just started the game and you have that new excitement.

I do fell bad for PVP players and also theorycrafters.

Tannus15

NO leave the BOP as it is, you need to earn the items.

@ForsakenSin I get what you're saying, more sets being BoE IS better for the economy, but I think half the sets being BoP also gives players incentives to actually do content as well.

You can make a good build from BoE sets and crafted gear right now, which is why I think ZoS have hit the right balance between BoE and BoP.

The reason I brought up the sharpened weapons as an issue is that I feel right now people are OVER farming BoE sets in an attempt to get their BiS weapon and putting the rest of the drops on their guild vendor.

Because they have to do literally hundreds of dolmens or world bosses to get their weapon instead of getting it in say 20 or 30 drops the game has way more supply than demand which is why the prices have plummeted. The vast majority of these players would rather be doing something else, but they really want that BiS item and it's not for sale or they can't afford it on guild vendors.

My argument is that if you opened up dungeon drops to BoE then you will have exactly the same issue. The market will be flooded with viper bracers as people continue to do fungal grotto hundreds of times in their desire for those sharpened daggers. Supply will far outstrip demand and prices will drop through the floor, as they have with soulshine with the exception of sharpened dagger of the viper.

This is why I'm saying the core problem right now isn't the lack of sets, there are more available now than before 1T.
The core problem is that it's so hard to get the 1 item that people want, not to sell, but to keep, and all the unwanted set items are getting put on guild vendors.

The people are not farming dolmens to sell items for very little gold (if it sells at all)
They are just trying to get that BiS item for their build.
Once they finally get it they will breath a huge sigh of relief and stop spending hours and hours doing the same dolmens or dungeons over and over.

I don't have all the gear I want right now. I still do vFG1 in an attempt to get those divine bracers. I still don't have sharpened viper 1 handers.
I have a divines tremorscale helm, but the shoulders are only sturdy
Most of my knight errant is reinforced or infused
Thankfully my drager hulk dropped in divines and I got suuuuper lucky to get that sharpened inferno staff of burning spell weave.
Pretty much all of my 7 vet characters need *something* to finish their sets. To stop myself burning out on it I work on different characters instead of just running vFG1 200 times in a row to try and get those weapons.

Right now I'm deconning at least a dozen decent items every night. Make dungeons BoE and I guarantee me and others like me will flood to market in a week and those sets will be worth less than 2k.

ForsakenSin

YES remove the useless BOP on all items ( not including VMSA drops)

@Tannus15

I can see the point you are making and your right you can make a good items and combine with some of the BOE items to be good but as BiS you would be farming for it.


"My argument is that if you opened up dungeon drops to BoE then you will have exactly the same issue. The market will be flooded with viper bracers as people continue to do fungal grotto hundreds of times in their desire for those sharpened daggers."


Thats just the thing .. we need to separate this for a moment let me explain.

If items were BOE then why would you need to run the same content 100 of times when you can look to buy the item you need hence you are removing your self from not only spending hr of farming but also from acquiring the items to sell and over flood the marker the less people are farming for one item the less people would get the same items and selling it. ( i understand the point then less people will run dungeons but i cover that below)

This is what would happen for example

you would see the item is worth 100k -200k

1) you got money to spend you buy it money goes to seller and they buy something else.
2) you don't have money you farm trying to get it , you get other items you put up for sale you get money and buy the item



I guess there is a point in what you are saying and also what i am saying but funny thing you mentioned this ...


"Right now I'm deconning at least a dozen decent items every night. Make dungeons BoE and I guarantee me and others like me will flood to market in a week and those sets will be worth less than 2k.
"

like i mentioned this is just the thing , if you buy the items it would remove you from farming and getting all other items to sell and overload the market if you already found in trader sharpened viper 1 handed for sale for 100k gold for example you would not need to farm VFG and get all of those other items to sell , you could buy it and move on Or you can farm it to sell it and make money , the thing is you are combining the BOP problem with demand...

and i know if you remove BOP people will not run dungeons however , the difference now and before 1T is the monster helm ..every dungeons has a monster helm that people want to get and due to the RNG and different traits weight people still run for those ..if we didnt have monster helm then i totally agree what would be the reason to run dungeons if you got what you need but IF you don't remove BOP people will get tired of content.

"I don't have all the gear I want right now. I still do vFG1 in an attempt to get those divine bracers. I still don't have sharpened viper 1 handers."

See the funny thing is ..i actually got a viper purple 1 handed sword sharp that i don't use .. i can't sell it or give it to somebody else and i don't want to decon it as i know its hard to find.... now if it was BOE and you were on xbox i could of sell it to you or give it to you as its just wasting my space.

so If things were reversed and you were on xbox NA and be honest now.. if my sword was BOE and i was going to sell it to you for 100k or give it to you as i don't need it would you rather buy it or get it OR would you take your chance in farming it?

Like i mentioned i respect your view and i know we will never agree on the same thing as both points are valid and now it depends on how many people agree with which points.

but i will say this , ever since this BOP items ive seen many of my guild mates take a long time off ..guild traders increasing price , people not able to make profit and quitting guilds and longer waiting times in finding pugs to run as all of the others are farming same content over and over and over again, pvp population has decreased as some have left to farm and some quit due to procs and lags.


I hope that you will stay optimistic and its good that you have other char to farm with thus making content less boring but honestly how long can you last when maybe after one month passes and you still don't get that viper sword ? after 300 runs ?

My best was after 230 runs for atomatons 1 handed .. and im not even talking about sharp sword 1 handed i have not seen ANY 1 handed atomatons drop .. maybe you will have better luck then me.