(QAM)Magic DW Sorc 1vX, One Tamriel

Force-Siphon

Lich, spinners, 2 monster is not a secret some of us been running since day 1

loki547

The amount of noobness in this thread is off the charts

Malamar1229

no one said anything about spinners build being a secret. And Im well aware QAM that you ran DW Julianos/Lich preDB. I ran the same build minus dawnbreaker if you recall...I have a new forum name now but my sorc was Makkir up until about early September...

I was talking about running lich/julianos on destro/resto using two 1 pc monster sets instead of a 2pc monster set. The build performs very well if you set your bars up right and I was really just giving you a hard time about talking about it...no big deal.

Minalan

Malamar1229 wrote: »

no one said anything about spinners build being a secret. And Im well aware QAM that you ran DW Julianos/Lich preDB. I ran the same build minus dawnbreaker if you recall...I have a new forum name now but my sorc was Makkir up until about early September...

I was talking about running lich/julianos on destro/resto using two 1 pc monster sets instead of a 2pc monster set. The build performs very well if you set your bars up right and I was really just giving you a hard time about talking about it...no big deal.

Jules works out a little better than spinner versus shielded targets. You can't crit, but 3500 spell damage and 44.5K max magicka rips those shields down with timed burst. You can give a much more skilled Sorc a fight for his life even if you don't win.

Spinner is a little better against pure heavy tanks. Julianos spell damage and extra crit does 'OK' but Spinner really shines here.

Both are about even on medium or light builds. Those builds don't have enough armor that removing it with spinner increases damage appreciably over the 7-8K spell penetration LA Sorcs already have (concentration plus erosion).

Lord_Hev

Spinners is also more expensive to get, considering it requires a destro staff, and a sharpened one at that, to truly be the counter to stam heavy armor abusers.

Malamar1229

and spinners looks like poop on a stick



not braggin but i got a sharpened lightning on first night T1....I think Min cried a little

Minalan

Malamar1229 wrote: »

and spinners looks like poop on a stick



not braggin but i got a sharpened lightning on first night T1....I think Min cried a little

I hated you so bad. We were grinding that dolmen and boss mob all day, and you ended up with extra spinner rings and necklaces.

Then I got a lightning sharpened spinner the next Saturday morning. Then I found a sharpened ice spinner staff up for sale like 5K or so.

I don't even use them now, wish I had just sold the gold lightning spinner staff when it was going for like 200K. I chose the 'hit harder' build with spell damage, max magicka, and crit.

I switched my CP and picked up 2.3K or so spell erosion to help make up for the missing 4K spell pen. It works.

What it comes down to for me: There is no CP that makes up for having crappy 2500-2700 buffed spell damage and there is only one star for spell crit that you can't pump up with more CP points. As I get closer to the latest CP cap this build only gets more effective.

Jsmalls

Dual wield Sorcs are fun, but you have no chance against a good s&b user (or Mag DK), defensive posture will ruin your life with your only projectile being your frags.

Main reason I pick destro over Dw

Skitttles

QAM the man doing work on all these stam lambs in one tam.

Lord_Hev

Skitttles wrote: »

QAM the man doing work on all these stam lambs in one tam.

Skittlez

It's a dirty job, and someone's gotta do it.

Jsmalls wrote: »

Dual wield Sorcs are fun, but you have no chance against a good s&b user (or Mag DK), defensive posture will ruin your life with your only projectile being your frags.

Main reason I pick destro over Dw

Yeah, sword and board + heavy is a very big counter. But with enough damage from ultimates like meteor and just the right timing and persistence, can be overcome.

Derra

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Yeah, sword and board + heavy is a very big counter. But with enough damage from ultimates like meteor and just the right timing and persistence, can be overcome.

Only if they´re slacking on def posture though. If you meet anyone of the oldschool 1.5 users of this skill that actually know how to time it instead of keeping it perma active you´re in proper trouble as they won´t let you switch to resto bar.

I personally enjoy 5 bsw + 5 lich + 2infernal the most in terms of raw dmg builds. People are not used to 4000+ spelldmg build on staves.

Minalan

Derra wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Yeah, sword and board + heavy is a very big counter. But with enough damage from ultimates like meteor and just the right timing and persistence, can be overcome.

Only if they´re slacking on def posture though. If you meet anyone of the oldschool 1.5 users of this skill that actually know how to time it instead of keeping it perma active you´re in proper trouble as they won´t let you switch to resto bar.

I personally enjoy 5 bsw + 5 lich + 2infernal the most in terms of raw dmg builds. People are not used to 4000+ spelldmg build on staves.

I thought about something like that. Is there some sort of visual cue that tells you when BSW procs?

The only reason I don't like it is the one chance in five to go off on a fire ability.

Jsmalls

@Derra

I'm also curious, how's burning spell weaves up time? I don't use force pulse so I'm worried that weaving alone would cause limited use of it.

loki547

Derra wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Yeah, sword and board + heavy is a very big counter. But with enough damage from ultimates like meteor and just the right timing and persistence, can be overcome.

Only if they´re slacking on def posture though. If you meet anyone of the oldschool 1.5 users of this skill that actually know how to time it instead of keeping it perma active you´re in proper trouble as they won´t let you switch to resto bar.

I personally enjoy 5 bsw + 5 lich + 2infernal the most in terms of raw dmg builds. People are not used to 4000+ spelldmg build on staves.

In my experience player skill trumps "hard counters." I've never had a problem killing anyone in duels using reflect or wings. QAM is right that timing and unreflectable Ult's are the key.

For sorcs max Magicka is still king. I have 55k Magicka and 3400 spell dmg. I'd rather have raw dmg all the time and big shields than 8 seconds of higher spell dmg and smaller shields.

Derra

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Derra

I'm also curious, how's burning spell weaves up time? I don't use force pulse so I'm worried that weaving alone would cause limited use of it.

It´s definetly only usable with firestaff and forcepulse/crushingshock - however for that case scathing mage is a decent alternative or just good old julianos.

loki547 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Yeah, sword and board + heavy is a very big counter. But with enough damage from ultimates like meteor and just the right timing and persistence, can be overcome.

Only if they´re slacking on def posture though. If you meet anyone of the oldschool 1.5 users of this skill that actually know how to time it instead of keeping it perma active you´re in proper trouble as they won´t let you switch to resto bar.

I personally enjoy 5 bsw + 5 lich + 2infernal the most in terms of raw dmg builds. People are not used to 4000+ spelldmg build on staves.

In my experience player skill trumps "hard counters." I've never had a problem killing anyone in duels using reflect or wings. QAM is right that timing and unreflectable Ult's are the key.

For sorcs max Magicka is still king. I have 55k Magicka and 3400 spell dmg. I'd rather have raw dmg all the time and big shields than 8 seconds of higher spell dmg and smaller shields.

What i don´t understand about these builds is: How do you actually sustain against an competent opponent using magica increase poisons (the proper ones with 10s duration)? Do you have purge slotted? Do you hope to kill them before you run dry? How do you engage an opponent that kites you - do you not fight them at all (funny enough a magica sorc without stormarmor and a low sustain build is probably the most immobile class in the game when not considering nonvamp magdk and templar).

Also is that 3400 spelldmg permanent or is it with the glyph procc (resource buff, staff or dw build)?

I can´t comment on duels at all. The setup is stupid. The small dueling area negates every single mobility advantage sorcs have compared to other classes in open world pvp (which makes my build worse but i guess petsorcs or 2 toggle only maxmagica sorcs work fine - most of the time i duo or trio nowadays as supportheal/dps where i need: shock to interrupt, finisher curse fragments... a).
In my personal experience on the EU server it´s simply not possible to run a low sustain build for real open world pvp without cherry picking opponents (which i don´t like to do) and not utilizing stealth. Once you´re spotted you can´t get away and you won´t kill any of the 10 ppl coming out of stealth (including multiple healers) aswell.
To top that off there are multiple people on EU only spamming different hardCCs in grps (especially on AD side strangely). I can not get away with base stamreg against those opponents in a Xv1 situation. As a result the most well rounded build i could create has: 2k magreg 1.1k stamreg 44k magica 22khealth 48% crit 3100 permanent spelldmg and is able to utilize poisons (which imo is mandatory) and an undaunted 2p set staffbuild (3 toggles still which is a heavy limitation).

Biro123

How you get those kind of stats? I'm struggling to reach 44k magicka and that's with only 1800 regen and 1500 spell dmg.

loki547

Derra wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Derra

I'm also curious, how's burning spell weaves up time? I don't use force pulse so I'm worried that weaving alone would cause limited use of it.

It´s definetly only usable with firestaff and forcepulse/crushingshock - however for that case scathing mage is a decent alternative or just good old julianos.

loki547 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Yeah, sword and board + heavy is a very big counter. But with enough damage from ultimates like meteor and just the right timing and persistence, can be overcome.

Only if they´re slacking on def posture though. If you meet anyone of the oldschool 1.5 users of this skill that actually know how to time it instead of keeping it perma active you´re in proper trouble as they won´t let you switch to resto bar.

I personally enjoy 5 bsw + 5 lich + 2infernal the most in terms of raw dmg builds. People are not used to 4000+ spelldmg build on staves.

In my experience player skill trumps "hard counters." I've never had a problem killing anyone in duels using reflect or wings. QAM is right that timing and unreflectable Ult's are the key.

For sorcs max Magicka is still king. I have 55k Magicka and 3400 spell dmg. I'd rather have raw dmg all the time and big shields than 8 seconds of higher spell dmg and smaller shields.

What i don´t understand about these builds is: How do you actually sustain against an competent opponent using magica increase poisons (the proper ones with 10s duration)? Do you have purge slotted? Do you hope to kill them before you run dry? How do you engage an opponent that kites you - do you not fight them at all (funny enough a magica sorc without stormarmor and a low sustain build is probably the most immobile class in the game when not considering nonvamp magdk and templar).

Also is that 3400 spelldmg permanent or is it with the glyph procc (resource buff, staff or dw build)?

I can´t comment on duels at all. The setup is stupid. The small dueling area negates every single mobility advantage sorcs have compared to other classes in open world pvp (which makes my build worse but i guess petsorcs or 2 toggle only maxmagica sorcs work fine - most of the time i duo or trio nowadays as supportheal/dps where i need: shock to interrupt, finisher curse fragments... a).
In my personal experience on the EU server it´s simply not possible to run a low sustain build for real open world pvp without cherry picking opponents (which i don´t like to do) and not utilizing stealth. Once you´re spotted you can´t get away and you won´t kill any of the 10 ppl coming out of stealth (including multiple healers) aswell.
To top that off there are multiple people on EU only spamming different hardCCs in grps (especially on AD side strangely). I can not get away with base stamreg against those opponents in a Xv1 situation. As a result the most well rounded build i could create has: 2k magreg 1.1k stamreg 44k magica 22khealth 48% crit 3100 permanent spelldmg and is able to utilize poisons (which imo is mandatory) and an undaunted 2p set staffbuild (3 toggles still which is a heavy limitation).

3400 is with spell dmg weapon glyph proc, 3k spell dmg without on dual wield build (major sorc buff only, no resource buff). Glyph is on my resto staff and I'm constantly using light/heavy attacks so it's up as much as it can be. Also when I'm talking about 1v1's I'm talking open world, not /duels, of which I have no interest in. I have 1400 mag regen which is kind of low I admit but with Dark Conversion it works for me. My burst DPS comes from my ult, proc'd frags and endless fury so spells are cheap casts, against stam users I don't use harness at all and stick with just hardened and healing when I get in trouble to keep mag costs down. If someone is using mag drain poisons again I'm not terribly affected by that since my spells are pretty cheap and Dark Conversion totally gets around that since it's actually a Stam cost ability that restores magicka.

loki547

Scroll to 1:30, here's me bursting down a pretty good player (heavy armor stamblade) relatively quickly using an older setup running less magicka than I am now.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://youtu.be/wrKtRDZbC84&quot; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Derra

loki547 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Derra

I'm also curious, how's burning spell weaves up time? I don't use force pulse so I'm worried that weaving alone would cause limited use of it.

It´s definetly only usable with firestaff and forcepulse/crushingshock - however for that case scathing mage is a decent alternative or just good old julianos.

loki547 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Yeah, sword and board + heavy is a very big counter. But with enough damage from ultimates like meteor and just the right timing and persistence, can be overcome.

Only if they´re slacking on def posture though. If you meet anyone of the oldschool 1.5 users of this skill that actually know how to time it instead of keeping it perma active you´re in proper trouble as they won´t let you switch to resto bar.

I personally enjoy 5 bsw + 5 lich + 2infernal the most in terms of raw dmg builds. People are not used to 4000+ spelldmg build on staves.

In my experience player skill trumps "hard counters." I've never had a problem killing anyone in duels using reflect or wings. QAM is right that timing and unreflectable Ult's are the key.

For sorcs max Magicka is still king. I have 55k Magicka and 3400 spell dmg. I'd rather have raw dmg all the time and big shields than 8 seconds of higher spell dmg and smaller shields.

What i don´t understand about these builds is: How do you actually sustain against an competent opponent using magica increase poisons (the proper ones with 10s duration)? Do you have purge slotted? Do you hope to kill them before you run dry? How do you engage an opponent that kites you - do you not fight them at all (funny enough a magica sorc without stormarmor and a low sustain build is probably the most immobile class in the game when not considering nonvamp magdk and templar).

Also is that 3400 spelldmg permanent or is it with the glyph procc (resource buff, staff or dw build)?

I can´t comment on duels at all. The setup is stupid. The small dueling area negates every single mobility advantage sorcs have compared to other classes in open world pvp (which makes my build worse but i guess petsorcs or 2 toggle only maxmagica sorcs work fine - most of the time i duo or trio nowadays as supportheal/dps where i need: shock to interrupt, finisher curse fragments... a).
In my personal experience on the EU server it´s simply not possible to run a low sustain build for real open world pvp without cherry picking opponents (which i don´t like to do) and not utilizing stealth. Once you´re spotted you can´t get away and you won´t kill any of the 10 ppl coming out of stealth (including multiple healers) aswell.
To top that off there are multiple people on EU only spamming different hardCCs in grps (especially on AD side strangely). I can not get away with base stamreg against those opponents in a Xv1 situation. As a result the most well rounded build i could create has: 2k magreg 1.1k stamreg 44k magica 22khealth 48% crit 3100 permanent spelldmg and is able to utilize poisons (which imo is mandatory) and an undaunted 2p set staffbuild (3 toggles still which is a heavy limitation).

3400 is with spell dmg weapon glyph proc, 3k spell dmg without on dual wield build (major sorc buff only, no resource buff). Glyph is on my resto staff and I'm constantly using light/heavy attacks so it's up as much as it can be. Also when I'm talking about 1v1's I'm talking open world, not /duels, of which I have no interest in. I have 1400 mag regen which is kind of low I admit but with Dark Conversion it works for me. My burst DPS comes from my ult, proc'd frags and endless fury so spells are cheap casts, against stam users I don't use harness at all and stick with just hardened and healing when I get in trouble to keep mag costs down. If someone is using mag drain poisons again I'm not terribly affected by that since my spells are pretty cheap and Dark Conversion totally gets around that since it's actually a Stam cost ability that restores magicka.

How do you sustain dark conversion though : P

I guess not many pll are running 10s magica cost increase on magica builds themselves yet.

edit: A pretty good players blocks in charge animation against a sorc

loki547

bolt twice out of gap closer range, throw down mines pop a couple a couple of dark conversions and you're there or LoS etc. PC NA most stam users run stam resource poisons or double health dmg poisons., no need to run someone out of resources when you can just burst them down

Derra

loki547 wrote: »

bolt twice out of gap closer range, throw down mines pop a couple a couple of dark conversions and you're there or LoS etc. PC NA most stam users run stam resource poisons or double health dmg poisons., no need to run someone out of resources when you can just burst them down

Yeah like i´ve said. Most likely people don´t play that way. I would be the logical counter to high maxmagica builds though.

I run 10s magica cost increase on a magica build because in 90% of the cases the builds giving me trouble killing them quickly enough are 50k+ magica shieldbuilds (and it´s fun when you watch them realise what´s happening and doing panic heavyattacks). Also nonheavy stamina builds are hurt much harder by magica cost increase.

Izaki

Jsmalls wrote: »

Dual wield Sorcs are fun, but you have no chance against a good s&b user (or Mag DK), defensive posture will ruin your life with your only projectile being your frags.

Main reason I pick destro over Dw

Resto light attacks don't count as projectiles?..

Derra

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Dual wield Sorcs are fun, but you have no chance against a good s&b user (or Mag DK), defensive posture will ruin your life with your only projectile being your frags.

Main reason I pick destro over Dw

Resto light attacks don't count as projectiles?..

Switching to resto lightattack and switch back costs you any momentum you might have because of the mini gcd on weaponswapping sadly.

Izaki

Derra wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Dual wield Sorcs are fun, but you have no chance against a good s&b user (or Mag DK), defensive posture will ruin your life with your only projectile being your frags.

Main reason I pick destro over Dw

Resto light attacks don't count as projectiles?..

Switching to resto lightattack and switch back costs you any momentum you might have because of the mini gcd on weaponswapping sadly.

True true, but what if you have Curse on your back bar, so you're technically weaving it anyway. At least, that's how I prefer to play nowadays. With bar swap being kinda way too unreliable on xbox, I decided to put hardened ward on the DW bar and switch curse over to resto. That way the ward also gets the magicka boost from Meteor and Entropy being on that bar. It also allows me to get that spell damage enchant to proc right before the combo. Then a damage magicka and a damage stamina poison on each sword, everyone is melee nowadays anyway. Works out pretty well for me at least.

Derra

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Dual wield Sorcs are fun, but you have no chance against a good s&b user (or Mag DK), defensive posture will ruin your life with your only projectile being your frags.

Main reason I pick destro over Dw

Resto light attacks don't count as projectiles?..

Switching to resto lightattack and switch back costs you any momentum you might have because of the mini gcd on weaponswapping sadly.

True true, but what if you have Curse on your back bar, so you're technically weaving it anyway. At least, that's how I prefer to play nowadays. With bar swap being kinda way too unreliable on xbox, I decided to put hardened ward on the DW bar and switch curse over to resto. That way the ward also gets the magicka boost from Meteor and Entropy being on that bar. It also allows me to get that spell damage enchant to proc right before the combo. Then a damage magicka and a damage stamina poison on each sword, everyone is melee nowadays anyway. Works out pretty well for me at least.

I can only speak for me personally in that case: Having curse on backbar hurt my dps a lot. I still think one of the main feats of sorc play is to maximise curse uptime on the enemy (especially with it´s recent buffs).

KisoValley

Force-Siphon wrote: »

Lich, spinners, 2 monster is not a secret some of us been running since day 1

Engine Guardian?

NordSwordnBoard

I love lich set in PvP. I was lucky enough to get a sharp lich sword, which allows me to proc it when I switch bars to DW.

I also get to keep 2 monster and 5 Julianos.

Force-Siphon

KisoValley wrote: »

Force-Siphon wrote: »

Lich, spinners, 2 monster is not a secret some of us been running since day 1

Engine Guardian?

if you pray at the alter of the guardian he will bless you with long life and fertility

Mayrael

Nice vid glad to see some fresh vid without proc sets. Isnt it a bit strange that after 1T launch suddenly amount of pvp "streamers" rised dramaticaly?