Which Morph of Shield Wall Are You Using?

bellanca6561n

The description of the morphs seems odd...as if they were poorly described.

Shield Discipline says that it reduces sword and shield skill costs while also saying it reduces them 100%....

Spell Wall's description is also redundant....

From these unreliable sounding descriptions you'd think Shield Discipline would be the clear choice here. But I'm not convinced these descriptions are accurate or that Shield Wall is working properly. It doesn't seem to block properly.

What has been your experience and what is your advice?

Many thanks!

Sharee

Thats how all skill tooltips work when you are morphing them. The green texts is highlighting the difference between the morphs.

Shield wall is not a proper block - it reduces the damage as a normal block, but does not give the CC immunity you get when blocking normally. You also cannot use normal block while the ult is running.

bellanca6561n

Yes, Sharee, I know the green text is meant to be a summary of the difference delivered by the morph. What threw me was the percentage.

What I didn't know, and I appreciate your informing me of, was that you're not meant to hold block while this is running. I guess the word, automatic, is the key clue here

Yeah, I was holding block while it was running

Mostly I'd been using it because it generates resources if you're tanking, though not to the extent of, say, Magma Shell.

So....it's a block but not fully a block, alas.

bellanca6561n

Thus, I have to ask:

Is this feature working as intended?

OrphanHelgen

Sharee wrote: »

Thats how all skill tooltips work when you are morphing them. The green texts is highlighting the difference between the morphs.

Shield wall is not a proper block - it reduces the damage as a normal block, but does not give the CC immunity you get when blocking normally. You also cannot use normal block while the ult is running.

I noticed this too while using it in pve, bosses knocked me back while I had this ultimate active, also like you said, I couldnt even block it if I used block button. CC block are pure disabled with this ultimate active. Intended?

bellanca6561n

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Thats how all skill tooltips work when you are morphing them. The green texts is highlighting the difference between the morphs.

Shield wall is not a proper block - it reduces the damage as a normal block, but does not give the CC immunity you get when blocking normally. You also cannot use normal block while the ult is running.

I noticed this too while using it in pve, bosses knocked me back while I had this ultimate active, also like you said, I couldnt even block it if I used block button. CC block are pure disabled with this ultimate active. Intended?

So, if it not only fails to block in the manner of a.....block, but serves to also disable block while "blocking," then it is a form of self inflicted debuff in a way, isn't it?

Sheuib

If it granted CC immunity like a normal block then spell wall would be awesome in PVP.

TankHealz2015

Interesting that someone commented that the Shield Discipline would be the obvious choice... I looked at the two and thought Spell Wall to be the obvious choice.

Shield Discipline = so I can spam my 2 S&B skills - pierce armor and/or heroic slash. but how many times can you hit these skills in 6 seconds? and to what purpose, since I am a tank and my DPS is not very high anyways...

Spell Wall = reflects all projectiles = ranged in PvE and/or PvP get a taste of their own medicine now!

Dragonknight = 3 options to reflect back onto ranged attackers= Spell Wall, Defensive Stance, and Wings= LOVE

Thoughts?

OrphanHelgen

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

Interesting that someone commented that the Shield Discipline would be the obvious choice... I looked at the two and thought Spell Wall to be the obvious choice.

Shield Discipline = so I can spam my 2 S&B skills - pierce armor and/or heroic slash. but how many times can you hit these skills in 6 seconds? and to what purpose, since I am a tank and my DPS is not very high anyways...

Spell Wall = reflects all projectiles = ranged in PvE and/or PvP get a taste of their own medicine now!

Dragonknight = 3 options to reflect back onto ranged attackers= Spell Wall, Defensive Stance, and Wings= LOVE

Thoughts?

If you are a tank, you are correct, your dps wont be high and it looks more logical with reflecting projectiles. If you do some dmg and are more like a fighter, the other morph looks better. My guess is you can hit around 3-5 times in a 6 sec duration. If one skill costs around 1500 stamina, with that ultimate you would save 5-6k stamina everytime you use it. Look at it that way, its more sustain. Guessing its good with the 1h shield gapcloser and duneripper monster set with puncture.

WalksonGraves

Reflect is better than reduction because the skills are cheap, the "block" doesn't seem to be a real block because I got one shot by a boss hvy attack while it was up. This is why I went back to bolstering darkness.

bellanca6561n

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Reflect is better than reduction because the skills are cheap, the "block" doesn't seem to be a real block because I got one shot by a boss hvy attack while it was up. This is why I went back to bolstering darkness.

My conclusion too in the end, except I prefer Magma Shell.

Sheuib wrote: »

If it granted CC immunity like a normal block then spell wall would be awesome in PVP.

Yes, alas, another case of a potentially useful PvE ability being something beyond merely useful against other players like, say, Shuffle.

Pity is that an ability or skill has to work the same for both types of game and is not adjusted based on the server you're on.

That would alleviate a lot of conflict between players outside the game itself. Such as on this forum, for example.

Didaco

Everyone keeps bringing up as an example how this ultimate fails against bosses' attacks, but no one ever mentions how it fairs in pvp: I mean, do you get CC'd by a dizzy swing?
Because bosses are not a valid example, they have some hard mechanic-attacks that have to be dealt with in specific ways, like the colossus in CoH that has the AoE stomp when enraged.
You must be out of red, otherwise you get CC'd. Can't be dodged, either.

bellanca6561n

Didaco wrote: »

Everyone keeps bringing up as an example how this ultimate fails against bosses' attacks, but no one ever mentions how it fairs in pvp: I mean, do you get CC'd by a dizzy swing?
Because bosses are not a valid example, they have some hard mechanic-attacks that have to be dealt with in specific ways, like the colossus in CoH that has the AoE stomp when enraged.
You must be out of red, otherwise you get CC'd. Can't be dodged, either.

Just wanted to know what morph folks were using is all.

Sharee

Didaco wrote: »

Because bosses are not a valid example, they have some hard mechanic-attacks that have to be dealt with in specific ways, like the colossus in CoH that has the AoE stomp when enraged.
You must be out of red, otherwise you get CC'd. Can't be dodged, either.

I understand what you mean but there are boss attack that you can block using normal block and not get CC-ed, while using shield wall in the same situation will get you CC-ed (Ex: final boss of wayrest sewers I, that's where i first noticed the behavior). That makes bosses a valid example.

bellanca6561n

Sharee wrote: »

Didaco wrote: »

Because bosses are not a valid example, they have some hard mechanic-attacks that have to be dealt with in specific ways, like the colossus in CoH that has the AoE stomp when enraged.
You must be out of red, otherwise you get CC'd. Can't be dodged, either.

I understand what you mean but there are boss attack that you can block using normal block and not get CC-ed, while using shield wall in the same situation will get you CC-ed (Ex: final boss of wayrest sewers I, that's where i first noticed the behavior). That makes bosses a valid example.

Plus I should have specified I was using it on a tank and, in PvE, bosses are their business much of the time. You must do other things of course but they wouldn't be the sorts of things you'd want this ultimate for.

Alucardo

Ranged attacks are generally what I die from in the end, so I went with Spell Wall. The only way I might find it confusing, is that it's called Spell Wall, yet reflects physical projectiles as well. Other than that, it's totally fine.

bellanca6561n

Alucardo wrote: »

Ranged attacks are generally what I die from in the end, so I went with Spell Wall. The only way I might find it confusing, is that it's called Spell Wall, yet reflects physical projectiles as well. Other than that, it's totally fine.

Yes, that was confusing. The other one was because the description tells you that one hand and shield ability costs are eliminated, whereas the green summary text says they're reduced.

Yes, they are reduced....by 100%, but the author should avoid technical writing

In the end I went with Shield Discipline and I use it. Until I did I never understood exactly how much resource regeneration you could get in, in just 6 seconds.

Yes, Wayrest 1 is hardly a tanking test but I wanted to test the danged thing in a less....challenging setting first.

Alucardo

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Ranged attacks are generally what I die from in the end, so I went with Spell Wall. The only way I might find it confusing, is that it's called Spell Wall, yet reflects physical projectiles as well. Other than that, it's totally fine.

The other one was because the description tells you that one hand and shield ability costs are eliminated, whereas the green summary text says they're reduced.

I had no problem following the description, but to keep it in line with other tooltips, they could change it to "negate the cost of one hand and shield abilities for the duration".

bellanca6561n

Alucardo wrote: »

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Ranged attacks are generally what I die from in the end, so I went with Spell Wall. The only way I might find it confusing, is that it's called Spell Wall, yet reflects physical projectiles as well. Other than that, it's totally fine.

The other one was because the description tells you that one hand and shield ability costs are eliminated, whereas the green summary text says they're reduced.

I had no problem following the description, but to keep it in line with other tooltips, they could change it to "negate the cost of one hand and shield abilities for the duration".

Agreed.

WalksonGraves

I think when something says you get unlimited blocks it should ACTUALLY BE A BLOCK. First time I used it during a boss one shot wind up was while I was rezzing someone and was quite surprised by the sudden death. That's a pretty big asterisk to leave out.

bellanca6561n

WalksonGraves wrote: »

I think when something says you get unlimited blocks it should ACTUALLY BE A BLOCK. First time I used it during a boss one shot wind up was while I was rezzing someone and was quite surprised by the sudden death. That's a pretty big asterisk to leave out.

Again, agreed. The description fails to....describe the ultimate.

Didaco

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Didaco wrote: »

Everyone keeps bringing up as an example how this ultimate fails against bosses' attacks, but no one ever mentions how it fairs in pvp: I mean, do you get CC'd by a dizzy swing?
Because bosses are not a valid example, they have some hard mechanic-attacks that have to be dealt with in specific ways, like the colossus in CoH that has the AoE stomp when enraged.
You must be out of red, otherwise you get CC'd. Can't be dodged, either.

Just wanted to know what morph folks were using is all.

It wasn't a post meant to be against you, I just wanted someone to shed light on the matter, like Sharee did.

Sorry if that seemed aggressive.

Btw, the green description might be correct as it is, maybe cost increase effects (like the one given by Kena Set and Poisons) are out of the equation.

erik1618

for PVP i went for spell wall and have loved it! I am a healer templar so it gets me out of tough situations when everyone is gap closer/ult drop focusing me to stop the healing. It only costs around 100 ult so it almost always up. Also, its kind of fun to see an entire raid casting on you and all those spells getting reflected back to everyone for 7 seconds.... :P

bellanca6561n

Thanks, @erik1618!

I can see now just how useful the oddly named Spell Wall could be in Cyrodiil. Not the first time, nor the last, that I've headed for one temple or another to pray for morph choice redemption

Asardes

The ultimate and it's morphs are good where you need to keep aggro for extended periods of time on multiple enemies, but you can't drop block to recover stamina. Pop up the ultimate, do a quick spam taunt then a few heavy attacks to recoup stamina before it expires. Spell Wall is better unless you are a DK. Some bosses are really hard without a reflect ability. For example Mighty Chudan (and it's ghostly version) can kill you even when blocking if you don't use a reflect ability.

For DK Shield Discipline is better, because you already have a spell that does the same thing - Dragon Fire scales. My take is that a weapon or guild skill should cover what your class lacks, so taking spell wall on a DK is really redundant. A tank with proper build usually has quite high magicka regeneration and/or pool for utility skills, and that regenerates even while blocking, so casting wings a few times to reflect projectiles back should not be an issue.

For example I run with 18K magicka pool and 1.4-1.6K recovery on my DK in tanking configuration from CPs in Arcanist, Atronach mundus, LA passives - I have one piece equipped - and consumables - Ghastly Eye-Bowl - as I can reach 27.8K health just from gear bonuses and being a full stamina build I have 23.8K pool, I only need to boost magicka when tanking.

In the end I consider the shield ultimate as a niche skill when it comes to serious DK tanking. I view it as a cheaper version of magma shell. The latter is better in most situations: it's more expensive which is good on DK because you get more resources back, all incoming damage is capped at 3% maximum health - which is better than block mitigation for some heavy hits - and you also shield your nearby allies. My tanking gear allows me to generate about 5 ult/second on average, so cost is not really an issue. I took and trained the ultimate just because I had the skill points to do it, but if you are planning on making a DK purpose build tank from scratch, and you are wanting for skill points, it's a waste.