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Magplars and their problems, PvP-wise pre-U13
Cinbri
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There is 3 main problems I see with magicka templars that hopefully will be fixed in Update 13:
1. First problem is what I predicted more than 1 year ago when zos started templars nerfs rampage - lack of defense.
And zos shredding class defense from update to update:
a. Blinding Light was removed in exchange of execute that promote zerging. It decreased survivablitiy in melee combat, same as remove Talons from dks and give them execute instead.
b. Eclipse - one of the most expensive skills stoped reflecting ultimates, hard hitting melee abilities, got cap to affect only 1 target, stoped debuffing enemy, stoped being counter to reflective abilities, lost ability to intercept projectiles. Nowdays it doesn't work in majority of battles and only implementation vs stamina users is to break their bash-light attack rotation. Literally it is same as remove dk's Scales and give them Defensive stance instead.
c. Blazing Shield - stoped being viable skill for anyone who doesn't stack 60k HP. Since Wrobel wants to make HP builds more viable - ok, we can afford this skill to benefit hp builds but it is still spot in defense.
d. small small nerfs to all rest defensive skills like: decrease mana returns from Honor the Dead, 25% decrease of BoL healing power, decrease of Major Mending healing on 5%, 30% increase cost of Cleansing Ritual, "fixes" for Rune Focus, nerf healing on 5% for Puncturing Sweeps, decrease healing and increase cast time for Healing Ritual (making this skill totally useless), nerf of Mending passive.
ZOS should stop nerfing templars and start giving them back tools to defend themselves, or prepare to keep reading on forum how people hate templars coz they are literally healbots, doing nothing but stacking into hordes and taking no skills but spamming 1 button to achieve maximum effectiveness.
2. Second problem is serious lack of proper class CC:
a. With Blinding Flashes removal Templar lost only AoE CC. Each of 4 classes have AoE CC All classes, except Templars, have AoE CC.
b. With nerf of Eclipse and introducing CP system - it no possible to use Eclipse on enemy to force them choose: either Break Free or be forced to deal damage to themselves, simply cos Eclipse is now almost a zero threat for enemy. Also any stamina builds either can decide to break free (for stamina builds Break Free is almost free and they can even benefit from Unchained passive) or don't break it at all coz Eclipse won't affect them in most of time.
c. Even worse problem is counter to permablocking - with current meta permablocking became as easy as it never being before, yet Templars lost ability to effectively counter them:
Way to fix it:
1. Eclipse should be able to reflect all types of damage and return to old mechanic of applying debuff or DoT on enemy after he used Break Free. Currently there is no consequences for doing it and Total Dark morph is not working at all coz everyone will either remove Eclipse instantly or just won't proc hp returns coz it won't reflect anything. And there is plenty of availale debuffs.
2. Change either of currently useless Unstable Core or Luminous Shards to knockdown through block that absorb damage for example like dk's Fossilize. There was already several lore-wise ways of it in DB update - either chains of light that were applied by primate menders or Time Freeze by Artorius boss. Both of those skills have their sources from Light or main aedra - Akatosh so it perfectly fit Templar class.
3. Third problem is clunky visual effects and class lore:
Firstly it seems not so important but it making playing Templar without buff-addons is very painfull.
a. Here is some examples of lack of proper animations:
Honor the Dead restore magicka in some cases but it have no visual effect of doing so. Couple pathces before skill was bugged and didn't restore magicka but it was impossible to determine without using Combat Log addons and left mostly unnoticable.
Sacred Ground passive apply strongest Major Mending buff but for 4 seconds. Yet there is no visual clue except addons or counting itself if buff still affecting you or not. Major Mending buff could get currently removed visual effect that just is too perfect to not implement - transparent yellow hands:
Radiant Aura - there is no way without char sheet or addons to determine if major buffs still affecting you.
Puncturing Sweeps - back in time when it didn't worked on shields without effect of when ability is heal you, many people were questioned about it and made wrong assumptions based on unclear mehcanic.
There are already many nice visual effecs in game but only from NPCs, for example: Solar Barrage is useless morph - it could become small AoE dot same as Consecrated Ground from Artorius(it will aslo fix problem that templar lack of burst)
. Or Eclipse should get back it's debuff on enemy that is look perfect for my suggestion below
.
. Or Heart of Light visual
Or already mentioned chains of light.
b. There is overpowered visual effect associated with Rushed Ceremony and Breath of Life in particular:
For example: sorcs have their powers from daedras. Yet their Surge skill decription mention Meridia as source of power or their skills means something as @Dracane proved.
In compare to this Templar's Rune Focus have just signs of some unknown "aedric" language that means nothing or their skills' descritions have general concepts like "inner light", without mentioning some particular aedra or cosmic laws in they mechanic.
Templar's source of power is aedras and ZOS showed us lore about Lorkhan's dead body and how it negatively affect everything, Sun-Eaters and Void in TG dlc and since aedra doesn't responsible only for "Light" (Lorkhan is aedra) based on tes3 quote: "As the darkness grew, we fought it, and crafted walls to confine it, but we never could destroy it, for the source of the darkness was the same source as the source of our own divine inspiration", it would be nice, for example, instead of Total Dark and Dark Flare skill names that means nothing to get something like "Lorkhan's Embrace" to increase the feel of "dark templars" or instead of Unstable Core - "Grip of Akatosh" to show direct source of power.
Such small changes would make game a little bit funnier for RPers.
@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno
Edited by Cinbri on October 25, 2016 11:54AM 1. First problem is what I predicted more than 1 year ago when zos started templars nerfs rampage - lack of defense.
Year passed and best templar most effective and usefull build in Cyro indeed became healbot spamming BoL button again and again. When people see templars it automatically make them think "hey, our combat medic is here". And even with serious BoL nerf there is still most effective build is healbot build where templars still spamming it non-stop, simply coz they can't do anything else to survive and heal is best thing they can give in group play.Templar's only defensive mechanic left - is spamming Rushed Ceremony button again and again and again, i.e. this change transforming Templar into pure Cleric healing class in PvP.
And zos shredding class defense from update to update:
a. Blinding Light was removed in exchange of execute that promote zerging. It decreased survivablitiy in melee combat, same as remove Talons from dks and give them execute instead.
b. Eclipse - one of the most expensive skills stoped reflecting ultimates, hard hitting melee abilities, got cap to affect only 1 target, stoped debuffing enemy, stoped being counter to reflective abilities, lost ability to intercept projectiles. Nowdays it doesn't work in majority of battles and only implementation vs stamina users is to break their bash-light attack rotation. Literally it is same as remove dk's Scales and give them Defensive stance instead.
c. Blazing Shield - stoped being viable skill for anyone who doesn't stack 60k HP. Since Wrobel wants to make HP builds more viable - ok, we can afford this skill to benefit hp builds but it is still spot in defense.
d. small small nerfs to all rest defensive skills like: decrease mana returns from Honor the Dead, 25% decrease of BoL healing power, decrease of Major Mending healing on 5%, 30% increase cost of Cleansing Ritual, "fixes" for Rune Focus, nerf healing on 5% for Puncturing Sweeps, decrease healing and increase cast time for Healing Ritual (making this skill totally useless), nerf of Mending passive.
ZOS should stop nerfing templars and start giving them back tools to defend themselves, or prepare to keep reading on forum how people hate templars coz they are literally healbots, doing nothing but stacking into hordes and taking no skills but spamming 1 button to achieve maximum effectiveness.
2. Second problem is serious lack of proper class CC:
a. With Blinding Flashes removal Templar lost only AoE CC. Each of 4 classes have AoE CC All classes, except Templars, have AoE CC.
b. With nerf of Eclipse and introducing CP system - it no possible to use Eclipse on enemy to force them choose: either Break Free or be forced to deal damage to themselves, simply cos Eclipse is now almost a zero threat for enemy. Also any stamina builds either can decide to break free (for stamina builds Break Free is almost free and they can even benefit from Unchained passive) or don't break it at all coz Eclipse won't affect them in most of time.
c. Even worse problem is counter to permablocking - with current meta permablocking became as easy as it never being before, yet Templars lost ability to effectively counter them:
- Blinding Flashes applied debuff that set off-balance enemies allowed to CC tanks for short time <-- skill was removed.
- Another counter was Luminous Shards that applied disorient and could CC enemy for 8 sec through block <-- skill was nerfed. To prevent abusing CC-lock by disorient status it started to break on damage and grant CC immunity. For Templar it means if you used Luminous Shards to break enemy block and tried to deal damage while enemy CCed - you will end that enemy will get out of CC next second and get CC immunity for free; situation even worse than Jabs that granted CC immunity for 0.5 knockback not-so-long-ago. I.e. meaning of this morph as counter of permablocking is completely lost and it can be counted as yet another usless morph.
Way to fix it:
1. Eclipse should be able to reflect all types of damage and return to old mechanic of applying debuff or DoT on enemy after he used Break Free. Currently there is no consequences for doing it and Total Dark morph is not working at all coz everyone will either remove Eclipse instantly or just won't proc hp returns coz it won't reflect anything. And there is plenty of availale debuffs.
2. Change either of currently useless Unstable Core or Luminous Shards to knockdown through block that absorb damage for example like dk's Fossilize. There was already several lore-wise ways of it in DB update - either chains of light that were applied by primate menders or Time Freeze by Artorius boss. Both of those skills have their sources from Light or main aedra - Akatosh so it perfectly fit Templar class.
3. Third problem is clunky visual effects and class lore:
Firstly it seems not so important but it making playing Templar without buff-addons is very painfull.
a. Here is some examples of lack of proper animations:
Honor the Dead restore magicka in some cases but it have no visual effect of doing so. Couple pathces before skill was bugged and didn't restore magicka but it was impossible to determine without using Combat Log addons and left mostly unnoticable.
Sacred Ground passive apply strongest Major Mending buff but for 4 seconds. Yet there is no visual clue except addons or counting itself if buff still affecting you or not. Major Mending buff could get currently removed visual effect that just is too perfect to not implement - transparent yellow hands:
Puncturing Sweeps - back in time when it didn't worked on shields without effect of when ability is heal you, many people were questioned about it and made wrong assumptions based on unclear mehcanic.
There are already many nice visual effecs in game but only from NPCs, for example: Solar Barrage is useless morph - it could become small AoE dot same as Consecrated Ground from Artorius(it will aslo fix problem that templar lack of burst)
.b. There is overpowered visual effect associated with Rushed Ceremony and Breath of Life in particular:
- 1. Rushed Ceremony source of cast visual effect - currently is showing 2 strings round character meaning him as caster, however this animation is usless coz it is impossible to determine this effect and caster in large scale PvP nor to find out if spell affected anyone, in addition to BoL visual effect that making it almost invisible.
I vote for returning old animation of transparent strings that were coming from your hand to people that got heal. This animation was perfect and allowed not just determine source of cast much easier but also to determine whos of allies got healing or simply where did your Honor's heal go and why it didn't heal you, it also allowed to determine enemy healers in enemy tactical formation much easier. Only negative aspect was invalid animation of healing through walls but after LoS was added to Rushed ceremony, this is no more a problem. It was most informative visual effect
So, I highly demand for its return.
- 2. Breath of Life visual effect is too bright:
. Given that it still main morph coz problem i described before - battlefield transformed into some toxic disco-party everywhere. In large scale Cyro battles it draining too much resources and even leaving visual artefacts when PC unable to analyze it:
It should become at lest more transparent.
For example: sorcs have their powers from daedras. Yet their Surge skill decription mention Meridia as source of power or their skills means something as @Dracane proved.
In compare to this Templar's Rune Focus have just signs of some unknown "aedric" language that means nothing or their skills' descritions have general concepts like "inner light", without mentioning some particular aedra or cosmic laws in they mechanic.
Templar's source of power is aedras and ZOS showed us lore about Lorkhan's dead body and how it negatively affect everything, Sun-Eaters and Void in TG dlc and since aedra doesn't responsible only for "Light" (Lorkhan is aedra) based on tes3 quote: "As the darkness grew, we fought it, and crafted walls to confine it, but we never could destroy it, for the source of the darkness was the same source as the source of our own divine inspiration", it would be nice, for example, instead of Total Dark and Dark Flare skill names that means nothing to get something like "Lorkhan's Embrace" to increase the feel of "dark templars" or instead of Unstable Core - "Grip of Akatosh" to show direct source of power.
Such small changes would make game a little bit funnier for RPers.
@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno
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Bandit1215✭✭✭Just read your long as post, and while I agree with most of it, prepare yourself for "TEMPLARDS ARE FINE THEY SPAM RD AND 1 SHOT ME THEY NEED NERFFFFF". I used to be one of those people, but after levelling and playing templar in pvp for awhile, everything you mentioned is true. Although, RD doe need some adjusting.CP 561- vSO HM - Completed
- vAA - Completed
- vHRC - Completed
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Elara_Northwind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree with all of this. I think those people who complain about templars, claiming that they are 'OP', must be crazy and are certainly misinformed.Edited by Elara_Northwind on October 25, 2016 12:26PMSorcerer, Templar, Wolf Collector, Housing Addict!
GM of Salted Wings Tavern and Salted Wings Housing 🏠🌻
'A House is Built with Boards and Beams, a Home is Built with Love and Dreams'
Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/c/ElaraNorthwind1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oh boy, you better prepare yourself for what you have coming...
This.
The OP right by the way. I tell everyone that ZoS nerfed templars since the IC patch and nobody believes me. I'd take the pre IC templar in a second before this version and it's not even close.
Of course, templars are still the best magicka class ... for this specific version of ESO. That is because the game changed, not because the class was improved or buffed. Heavy armor is good. The only magic class to have good self healing while wearing sword and shield. Shields nerf. DK nerfed. Need execute to kill anything in Cyrodiil. Isn't tied to bad staff weapons. Can cleanse all the dumb poisons and debuffs going around.
But most people just get frustrated by a heavy armor reactive templar wearing malbuth spamming breath of life is a "tank," when in its just poorly balanced gear that is keeping the templar alive.Edited by Joy_Division on October 25, 2016 12:30PM7 -
Moglijuana✭✭✭✭✭Meh. When you run into really bad players who are now all of a sudden playing Heavy Magplar and they are now 1,000 times harder to kill, and it's not because they all of a sudden got "better"...there's a problem. But then again, the skill cap in this game has severely gone downhill every patch so it's not like its just the class over performing.
Now don't get me wrong, I know some amazing Magplar's who are actually very skilled players...but the majority of them you find in Cyrodiil simply get carried by the toolkit available to them in this current meta.0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yeh OP is right. Our defensive capability has been getting nerfed for a while. However, that gets overshadowed by people that think Malubeth+Reactive is a Templar balance issue rather than an gear balance issue.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)8 -
RebornV3x✭✭✭✭✭
✭Templars have the best of all worlds and you still complain the class has the best heals in game can be tanky and can still lay down crazy DPS what more do you need. Templars can do It all I don't wanna be that guy but this is a L2P issue maybe.Edited by RebornV3x on October 25, 2016 2:38PMXbox One - NA GT: RebornV3x
I also play on PC from time to time but I just wanna be left alone on there so sorry.6 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Moglijuana wrote: »Meh. When you run into really bad players who are now all of a sudden playing Heavy Magplar and they are now 1,000 times harder to kill, and it's not because they all of a sudden got "better"...there's a problem. But then again, the skill cap in this game has severely gone downhill every patch so it's not like its just the class over performing.
Now don't get me wrong, I know some amazing Magplar's who are actually very skilled players...but the majority of them you find in Cyrodiil simply get carried by the toolkit available to them in this current meta.
When I started doing pvp I was trash. Swaped to a reactive magplar. It gave me more time to survive and react to other players skills. Since I got more time to survive I got better at pvp (since I then didn´t die instantly) and now I don´t need that tanky setup to play pvp and survive. So playing a more tanky setup as a start is sometimes a good way to get into pvp7 -
DHale✭✭✭✭✭
✭Having 3000 plus hours on a Templar they are actually weak. I can get it to be tanky and do little damage with heavy armor and cheese sets or I can get it to do damage and not be tanky. Even when it's tanky it has little sustain. Even with honor the dead and rune focus. Them are the breaks. But you still can't do what any stam user can do. On my stam toons I kill templars without any problems they will run out of magic before I run out of stam, even malatards.Sorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.2 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm only going to ask this question because it's almost been a month since last played/had ESO installed on my computer. Tho I've time to time keep my eyes to the forums while playing other games(duel monitors FTW!).
Has ZOS finally figured now is the perfect time, to completely crush last remnant of a competitive magicka based build. Or is this thread just here as a with if thread? I'm just wondering is all, if there is some leaked information about templar nerfs in Update 13? If not then where are such fuss coming from?Edited by FearlessOne_2014 on October 25, 2016 4:38PM1 -
Ron_Burgundy_79✭✭✭✭✭Templars have the best of all worlds and you still complain the class has the best heals in game can be tanky and can still lay down crazy DPS what more do you need. Templars can do It all I don't wanna be that guy but this is a L2P issue maybe.
A templar's only defense is reactive rather than proactive. Having awesome heals doesn't do a templar any good if it gets hit with 18k instant damage with a puncture, viper proc, tremorscale proc, bash. The widowmaker, viper, selenes proc is even more fun to deal with as a magplar.
Templars can't build for crazy DPS, awesome sustain, and be tanky all at the same time. It's somewhat possible to be 2 of those at once, but not all 3.
It's easy to be competent as a magplar. It's not easy to be a good magplar.3 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think Magplar is in the best place out of all classes . Great healing , great defenses and a ranged execute . Tons of stuns too . Boosting this class that some already consider op , not me but some will tip over the scales . A group of Magplars is terrible to get run over by .6 -
Ron_Burgundy_79✭✭✭✭✭Rohamad_Ali wrote: »I think Magplar is in the best place out of all classes . Great healing , great defenses and a ranged execute . Tons of stuns too . Boosting this class that some already consider op , not me but some will tip over the scales . A group of Magplars is terrible to get run over by .
I assume you mean Magicka classes only? Stuns/cc include toppling charge, aurora javelin, blazing spear, and total dark. All of those are single target. Did you read the OP's post?1 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »I think Magplar is in the best place out of all classes . Great healing , great defenses and a ranged execute . Tons of stuns too . Boosting this class that some already consider op , not me but some will tip over the scales . A group of Magplars is terrible to get run over by .
I assume you mean Magicka classes only? Stuns/cc include toppling charge, aurora javelin, blazing spear, and total dark. All of those are single target. Did you read the OP's post?
Umm blazing spear is single target ? Blazing shield not viable unless 50k health . Yes I did read it , I just didn't agree with it . Like at all ...1 -
Ron_Burgundy_79✭✭✭✭✭Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »I think Magplar is in the best place out of all classes . Great healing , great defenses and a ranged execute . Tons of stuns too . Boosting this class that some already consider op , not me but some will tip over the scales . A group of Magplars is terrible to get run over by .
I assume you mean Magicka classes only? Stuns/cc include toppling charge, aurora javelin, blazing spear, and total dark. All of those are single target. Did you read the OP's post?
Umm blazing spear is single target ? Blazing shield not viable unless 50k health . Yes I did read it , I just didn't agree with it . Like at all ...
Blazing spear is a single target cc that does instant aoe damage with a short dot afterwards. I never mentioned blazing shield.0 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »I think Magplar is in the best place out of all classes . Great healing , great defenses and a ranged execute . Tons of stuns too . Boosting this class that some already consider op , not me but some will tip over the scales . A group of Magplars is terrible to get run over by .
I assume you mean Magicka classes only? Stuns/cc include toppling charge, aurora javelin, blazing spear, and total dark. All of those are single target. Did you read the OP's post?
Umm blazing spear is single target ? Blazing shield not viable unless 50k health . Yes I did read it , I just didn't agree with it . Like at all ...
Blazing spear is a single target cc that does instant aoe damage with a short dot afterwards. I never mentioned blazing shield.
It's still AOE damage . You asked if I read the op and the op made the stamens about blazing shields . I'm not going to argue , if you believe they need more you are always entitled to your opinion . I am envious at the toolbox Magplars have for their class personally . To me it really is the most diverse in debuffs , stuns , heals , buffs with an execute . Ranged execute . It is still one of classes if set up correct can get good 1 vs X play and stands at the top in group play . My opinion of course .0 -
Ron_Burgundy_79✭✭✭✭✭Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »I think Magplar is in the best place out of all classes . Great healing , great defenses and a ranged execute . Tons of stuns too . Boosting this class that some already consider op , not me but some will tip over the scales . A group of Magplars is terrible to get run over by .
I assume you mean Magicka classes only? Stuns/cc include toppling charge, aurora javelin, blazing spear, and total dark. All of those are single target. Did you read the OP's post?
Umm blazing spear is single target ? Blazing shield not viable unless 50k health . Yes I did read it , I just didn't agree with it . Like at all ...
Blazing spear is a single target cc that does instant aoe damage with a short dot afterwards. I never mentioned blazing shield.
It's still AOE damage . You asked if I read the op and the op made the stamens about blazing shields . I'm not going to argue , if you believe they need more you are always entitled to your opinion . I am envious at the toolbox Magplars have for their class personally . To me it really is the most diverse in debuffs , stuns , heals , buffs with an execute . Ranged execute . It is still one of classes if set up correct can get good 1 vs X play and stands at the top in group play . My opinion of course .
I was implying that the class lacks an AOE cc.0 -
Moglijuana✭✭✭✭✭Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »I think Magplar is in the best place out of all classes . Great healing , great defenses and a ranged execute . Tons of stuns too . Boosting this class that some already consider op , not me but some will tip over the scales . A group of Magplars is terrible to get run over by .
I assume you mean Magicka classes only? Stuns/cc include toppling charge, aurora javelin, blazing spear, and total dark. All of those are single target. Did you read the OP's post?
Umm blazing spear is single target ? Blazing shield not viable unless 50k health . Yes I did read it , I just didn't agree with it . Like at all ...
Blazing spear is a single target cc that does instant aoe damage with a short dot afterwards. I never mentioned blazing shield.
It's still AOE damage . You asked if I read the op and the op made the stamens about blazing shields . I'm not going to argue , if you believe they need more you are always entitled to your opinion . I am envious at the toolbox Magplars have for their class personally . To me it really is the most diverse in debuffs , stuns , heals , buffs with an execute . Ranged execute . It is still one of classes if set up correct can get good 1 vs X play and stands at the top in group play . My opinion of course .
I was implying that the class lacks an AOE cc.
Soft or Hard cc? Because I'm preeetttyyyyy sure cleansing ritual is an aoe snare that is ALWAYS active as long as it's down.0 -
Ron_Burgundy_79✭✭✭✭✭Moglijuana wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »I think Magplar is in the best place out of all classes . Great healing , great defenses and a ranged execute . Tons of stuns too . Boosting this class that some already consider op , not me but some will tip over the scales . A group of Magplars is terrible to get run over by .
I assume you mean Magicka classes only? Stuns/cc include toppling charge, aurora javelin, blazing spear, and total dark. All of those are single target. Did you read the OP's post?
Umm blazing spear is single target ? Blazing shield not viable unless 50k health . Yes I did read it , I just didn't agree with it . Like at all ...
Blazing spear is a single target cc that does instant aoe damage with a short dot afterwards. I never mentioned blazing shield.
It's still AOE damage . You asked if I read the op and the op made the stamens about blazing shields . I'm not going to argue , if you believe they need more you are always entitled to your opinion . I am envious at the toolbox Magplars have for their class personally . To me it really is the most diverse in debuffs , stuns , heals , buffs with an execute . Ranged execute . It is still one of classes if set up correct can get good 1 vs X play and stands at the top in group play . My opinion of course .
I was implying that the class lacks an AOE cc.
Soft or Hard cc? Because I'm preeetttyyyyy sure cleansing ritual is an aoe snare that is ALWAYS active as long as it's down.
A soft cc that is very underwhelming when compared to streak, talons, and fear. I'd take any of those 3 over the snare that's part of the sacred ground passive.Edited by Ron_Burgundy_79 on October 25, 2016 6:50PM2 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭Templars have the best of all worlds and you still complain the class has the best heals in game can be tanky and can still lay down crazy DPS what more do you need. Templars can do It all I don't wanna be that guy but this is a L2P issue maybe.
Show me the build that does all that at once. Please.3 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No offense @Cinbri but you want skills that templars are not supoust to have anymore. Classes should be balance similar to magicka DK. If you want something you should sacrifice something else. I know that nobody wants nerfs but this is the right way otherwise balance cannot be achieved.
Let me give you an example for magicka Dk:
1) If I want a working gap closer I have to use stamina one
2) If I want purge i have to slot a skill that only remove 2 debuffs and it is very expensive
3) If I want healing increase buff i have to slot a useless shield
4) If I want heals I have to use resto staff weapon
5) If I want escape I have to use mist form
6) If I want to block I have to sacrifice my 3 spell damage/magicka recovery glyphs
The list can go on but I am sleepy...Because I can!2 -
RebornV3x✭✭✭✭✭
✭Templars have the best of all worlds and you still complain the class has the best heals in game can be tanky and can still lay down crazy DPS what more do you need. Templars can do It all I don't wanna be that guy but this is a L2P issue maybe.
Show me the build that does all that at once. Please.
Its been awhile since I played Templar but the builds are out there google is your friend I really like Tamriel Foundrys Theorycraft sections myself but ill give you the basics
1.Breath of Life/ Honor Dead is best heals in game kinda self explanatory
2.1 Hand and Shield on back bar even on a 5 light/1M/1H can take awhile to kill especially if you run behind rocks and stuff like most players do. Are they the best tanks no but ask yourself are they the worst no.
3. Duel wield on front bar and Bitting Jabs, Javelin, Radiant, and Dark Flare ever been hit for a 20K+ Dark Flare then Radiant most of the time that's = death now Mag Temps lack burst DPS but still if used right they can hit hard.
4. This is manly for Mag Templars obviously Stam Temps will use other stuff but last I check there still very good.
5. another thing Templars are probably the most versatile class having very useful stam and mag morphs of basic skills
6. Maybe Temps aren't OP but they don't need a buff
Anyways there more to it depending on if your you want more DPS, Heals or more tanky but yeah you get the point
Edited by RebornV3x on October 26, 2016 12:09AMXbox One - NA GT: RebornV3x
I also play on PC from time to time but I just wanna be left alone on there so sorry.0 -
Calboy✭✭✭✭✭Everyone lately is saying magplars are op just because there is a bunch running heavy armor with huge defensive sets making them very hard to kill and then nuke your last bit of health with RD, yet when built like that they have no offence. A magplar built offensively is hugely underpowered when compared to stam builds, just like the other magicka classes.
Stamplar on the other hand... they are absolute beasts yet for some reason everyone only talks about dks and sorcs with an occasional moan about a nb that insta gibbed them.3 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭Templars have the best of all worlds and you still complain the class has the best heals in game can be tanky and can still lay down crazy DPS what more do you need. Templars can do It all I don't wanna be that guy but this is a L2P issue maybe.
Show me the build that does all that at once. Please.
Its been awhile since I played Templar but the builds are out there google is your friend I really like Tamriel Foundrys Theorycraft sections myself but ill give you the basics
1.Breath of Life/ Honor Dead is best heals in game kinda self explanatory
2.1 Hand and Shield on back bar even on a 5 light/1M/1H can take awhile to kill especially if you run behind rocks and stuff like most players do. Are they the best tanks no but ask yourself are they the worst no.
3. Duel wield on front bar and Bitting Jabs, Javelin, Radiant, and Dark Flare ever been hit for a 20K+ Dark Flare then Radiant most of the time that's = death now Mag Temps lack burst DPS but still if used right they can hit hard.
4. This is manly for Mag Templars obviously Stam Temps will use other stuff but last I check there still very good.
5. another thing Templars are probably the most versatile class having very useful stam and mag morphs of basic skills
6. Maybe Temps aren't OP but they don't need a buff
Anyways there more to it depending on if your you want more DPS, Heals or more tanky but yeah you get the point
Thanks for coming out bud, as i expected you didnt post a build.
I have played magtemp since release, I have tried all the builds you suggest I google...
But please if you want to be taken seriously here, post this mythical build that has the best heals in the game, is tanky and has CRAZY dps as you stated earlier. Keep in mind this is a Magtemp discussion.3 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No offense @Cinbri but you want skills that templars are not supoust to have anymore. Classes should be balance similar to magicka DK. If you want something you should sacrifice something else. I know that nobody wants nerfs but this is the right way otherwise balance cannot be achieved.
Let me give you an example for magicka Dk:
1) If I want a working gap closer I have to use stamina one
2) If I want purge i have to slot a skill that only remove 2 debuffs and it is very expensive
3) If I want healing increase buff i have to slot a useless shield
4) If I want heals I have to use resto staff weapon
5) If I want escape I have to use mist form
6) If I want to block I have to sacrifice my 3 spell damage/magicka recovery glyphs
The list can go on but I am sleepy...
Absolutely disagree.
Your solution to balance problems to to make every magicka class suck.
You want magicka classes to have to scramble for stam skills for functional gap closers, resto bars for heals, and be incapable of doing everything ... meanwhile stamina classes already have all of this, are not restricted with what weaponry/armor sets they want to use, and can already do everything.
The mDK is a terribly designed class that ZoS should be looking at for what not to do
A mDK has a skill that is supposed to be a gap closer ... and yet you think it's ok for it to be so bad that it has to use a stamina one!
A mDK has a skill that is supposed to be a heal ... and yet you think it's good balance that they have to use a resto staff weapon!
In short, you think it's the "right way" for balance to be achieved is for skills to be so bad that the player should have to look elsewhere for skills that do the same function that their existing class abilities already are supposed to perform. Wut?
4 -
Hempyre✭✭✭✭Templars have the best of all worlds and you still complain the class has the best heals in game can be tanky and can still lay down crazy DPS what more do you need. Templars can do It all I don't wanna be that guy but this is a L2P issue maybe.
Show me the build that does all that at once. Please.
Its been awhile since I played Templar but the builds are out there google is your friend I really like Tamriel Foundrys Theorycraft sections myself but ill give you the basics
1.Breath of Life/ Honor Dead is best heals in game kinda self explanatory
2.1 Hand and Shield on back bar even on a 5 light/1M/1H can take awhile to kill especially if you run behind rocks and stuff like most players do. Are they the best tanks no but ask yourself are they the worst no.
3. Duel wield on front bar and Bitting Jabs, Javelin, Radiant, and Dark Flare ever been hit for a 20K+ Dark Flare then Radiant most of the time that's = death now Mag Temps lack burst DPS but still if used right they can hit hard.
4. This is manly for Mag Templars obviously Stam Temps will use other stuff but last I check there still very good.
5. another thing Templars are probably the most versatile class having very useful stam and mag morphs of basic skills
6. Maybe Temps aren't OP but they don't need a buff
Anyways there more to it depending on if your you want more DPS, Heals or more tanky but yeah you get the point
Thank you for listing our skills, I couldn't have done that by looking at my screen.
I also would like to see this epic build you speak of. Or are you just talking out your ass?
Nobody asked for buffs, mebbe its a L2Read issue, ya?
we have skills that don't work properly, as in *** Be Broke Yo! I do sweeps in pvp (that's the jabby one #Just-FYI-Things.) and maybe 2-3 actually hit, among other issue...
@ZOS Fix this BS, I got skills that don't work.2 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »No offense @Cinbri but you want skills that templars are not supoust to have anymore. Classes should be balance similar to magicka DK. If you want something you should sacrifice something else. I know that nobody wants nerfs but this is the right way otherwise balance cannot be achieved.
Let me give you an example for magicka Dk:
1) If I want a working gap closer I have to use stamina one
2) If I want purge i have to slot a skill that only remove 2 debuffs and it is very expensive
3) If I want healing increase buff i have to slot a useless shield
4) If I want heals I have to use resto staff weapon
5) If I want escape I have to use mist form
6) If I want to block I have to sacrifice my 3 spell damage/magicka recovery glyphs
The list can go on but I am sleepy...
Absolutely disagree.
Your solution to balance problems to to make every magicka class suck.
You want magicka classes to have to scramble for stam skills for functional gap closers, resto bars for heals, and be incapable of doing everything ... meanwhile stamina classes already have all of this, are not restricted with what weaponry/armor sets they want to use, and can already do everything.
The mDK is a terribly designed class that ZoS should be looking at for what not to do
A mDK has a skill that is supposed to be a gap closer ... and yet you think it's ok for it to be so bad that it has to use a stamina one!
A mDK has a skill that is supposed to be a heal ... and yet you think it's good balance that they have to use a resto staff weapon!
In short, you think it's the "right way" for balance to be achieved is for skills to be so bad that the player should have to look elsewhere for skills that do the same function that their existing class abilities already are supposed to perform. Wut?
No dont get me wrong that I want all stamina classes to be superior. They should be nerfed. Now some builds have all with minimum skills.Because I can!0 -
WillhelmBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sure Templar needs fixes, STILL! A little sprucing up, sure. But this class is so overpowered right now, it just cannot need buffs. It's needs a couple of nerfs! It needs to be on the same level as the other Magicka classes or stamina/physical damage will NEVER be nerfed, Magicka Templar is what is stopping ZOS from nerfing it.PC EU0
