Make Fire Rune the magical counterpart of Trap Beast?

gibous · October 2016

ZOS, you've already made expert hunter and magelight rather symmetrical. Why not make Fire Rune and its morphs worth slotting by making the dot target-bound while also granting the minor force buff?

Beardimus · October 2016

Like that! It makes no sense to not have a Magika equivalent.

dpencil · October 2016

This gets my vote. Good suggestion!

susmitds · October 2016

The current highest trial DPS are Magicka. Makes no sense to push them higher.

pjwb16_ESO · October 2016

Yes please

Lexxypwns · October 2016

yesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyes...

[edited for spaming]

ScottishTornado85 · October 2016

susmitds wrote: »

The current highest trial DPS are Magicka. Makes no sense to push them higher.

To be fair, a lot already use trap beast for the same buff, so it would only be the DOT that adds the damage.

I am for this idea.

Enslaved · October 2016

Yeah, scalding rune is like most useless thing on Nirn. Could be reworked into something useful.

Sallington · October 2016

I love this idea.

Cathexis · October 2016

All of a sudden when magicka classes are doing not so well they are all gungho for equivalent abilities.

That said, Id love a trap beast mag alternative. Id way rather be using volcanic rune.

Yamenstein · October 2016

Could we also get some stamina based heals while we change this as well - as in heals that we can use to make a reliable stamina healer...

Juhasow · October 2016

susmitds wrote: »

The current highest trial DPS are Magicka. Makes no sense to push them higher.

Wait what ?...

Juhasow · October 2016

Yamenstein wrote: »

Could we also get some stamina based heals while we change this as well - as in heals that we can use to make a reliable stamina healer...

So can we also get block draining magicka instead of stamina because I want to make reliable magicka tank...

susmitds · October 2016

Juhasow wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

The current highest trial DPS are Magicka. Makes no sense to push them higher.

Wait what ?...

@Juhasow

https://youtu.be/182BL1wwpoA

56k DPS on last boss vMoL Hard Mode. Literally the hardest boss in the game. Stamina DPS has effectively decreased by 5k this patch, while Magicka DPS got a boost from the new sets. While StamDK are still the second highest after Magplar, rest of the stamina classes, especially StamNBs got nerfed heavily in PvE. MagDK are the third highest now. Magicka sorcerers have also crossed 50k. Magicka NBs and Stamina NBs are the lowest DPS now with around 46k average.

RazorCaltrops · October 2016

Juhasow wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

The current highest trial DPS are Magicka. Makes no sense to push them higher.

Wait what ?...

Magicka was always the dominant one in PVE. I never saw more than 3 stam dds in a proper raid group, and that's before the VMA weapons nerf. Also never understood the qq about it. Stam's rotation is more unforgiving (you should practice a lot), your situational awareness must be top notch to stay alive and while a magicka character can still stay competitive even with a non-set sharpened inferno, you are heavily dependant on VMA weapons.

Juhasow · October 2016

RazorCaltrops wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

The current highest trial DPS are Magicka. Makes no sense to push them higher.

Wait what ?...

Magicka was always the dominant one in PVE. I never saw more than 3 stam dds in a proper raid group, and that's before the VMA weapons nerf. Also never understood the qq about it. Stam's rotation is more unforgiving (you should practice a lot), your situational awareness must be top notch to stay alive and while a magicka character can still stay competitive even with a non-set sharpened inferno, you are heavily dependant on VMA weapons.

You're mistaking 2 things here my friend. Magicka had much less DPS before this update comparing to stamina look at clips from this time stam DD was close to or even over 60k when magicka was almost 10k behind. And reasons why You never saw teams full with stam DD's is simple , magicka DD's are more survival and easier for healer to magane their resources , so before OT most of trial teams had 1-3 stam DD's because it would be mess to have more.

STEVIL · October 2016

gibous wrote: »

ZOS, you've already made expert hunter and magelight rather symmetrical. Why not make Fire Rune and its morphs worth slotting by making the dot target-bound while also granting the minor force buff?

If they follow this logic, just make one skill line and check box for magica v stam.

I mean once we make each skill identical, just diff source and dmg type its real easy.

Right?

Surely its not just this one skill pair in the whole of the game where the joy of sameness should be applied, right?

gibous · October 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

gibous wrote: »

ZOS, you've already made expert hunter and magelight rather symmetrical. Why not make Fire Rune and its morphs worth slotting by making the dot target-bound while also granting the minor force buff?

If they follow this logic, just make one skill line and check box for magica v stam.

I mean once we make each skill identical, just diff source and dmg type its real easy.

Right?

Surely its not just this one skill pair in the whole of the game where the joy of sameness should be applied, right?

Your interpretation is a real stretch and missed the mark.

Anyways, the point is that nobody uses fire rune. Everybody uses trap beast. It doesn't have to be a copy and paste solution, but that seems like a reasonable suggestion considering they already went that route. If they make fire rune useful in some other way, of course that'd be great.

Rohamad_Ali · October 2016

Good idea

Izaki · October 2016

susmitds wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

The current highest trial DPS are Magicka. Makes no sense to push them higher.

Wait what ?...

@Juhasow

https://youtu.be/182BL1wwpoA

56k DPS on last boss vMoL Hard Mode. Literally the hardest boss in the game. Stamina DPS has effectively decreased by 5k this patch, while Magicka DPS got a boost from the new sets. While StamDK are still the second highest after Magplar, rest of the stamina classes, especially StamNBs got nerfed heavily in PvE. MagDK are the third highest now. Magicka sorcerers have also crossed 50k. Magicka NBs and Stamina NBs are the lowest DPS now with around 46k average.

Stam templars are the lowest DPS class, magicka sorcerers are 3rd best DPS (full range as opposed to mDK)

Juhasow · October 2016

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

The current highest trial DPS are Magicka. Makes no sense to push them higher.

Wait what ?...

@Juhasow

https://youtu.be/182BL1wwpoA

56k DPS on last boss vMoL Hard Mode. Literally the hardest boss in the game. Stamina DPS has effectively decreased by 5k this patch, while Magicka DPS got a boost from the new sets. While StamDK are still the second highest after Magplar, rest of the stamina classes, especially StamNBs got nerfed heavily in PvE. MagDK are the third highest now. Magicka sorcerers have also crossed 50k. Magicka NBs and Stamina NBs are the lowest DPS now with around 46k average.

Stam templars are the lowest DPS class, magicka sorcerers are 3rd best DPS (full range as opposed to mDK)

@IzakiBrotheSs hmm have You tested stamplar after the update? Belive me DPS he can get is very nice not mentioning stamplar is the only class having skill with minor resists debuff which helps group a lot , also I doubt mag sorc is 3rd DPS right now because DK on magicka and stamina can get higer DPS , stamsorc and magplar also. In my opinion the lowest DPS class atm in magblade.

Autolycus · October 2016

susmitds wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

The current highest trial DPS are Magicka. Makes no sense to push them higher.

Wait what ?...

@Juhasow

https://youtu.be/182BL1wwpoA

56k DPS on last boss vMoL Hard Mode. Literally the hardest boss in the game. Stamina DPS has effectively decreased by 5k this patch, while Magicka DPS got a boost from the new sets. While StamDK are still the second highest after Magplar, rest of the stamina classes, especially StamNBs got nerfed heavily in PvE. MagDK are the third highest now. Magicka sorcerers have also crossed 50k. Magicka NBs and Stamina NBs are the lowest DPS now with around 46k average.

Context is important. What you're saying is that magplars are the top dps in all settings then? Or are you just referring to this fight specifically? This is the longest execute phase in the game (plenty of time to jesus beam). Are your magplars outpacing everyone else in everything then?

STEVIL · October 2016

gibous wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

gibous wrote: »

ZOS, you've already made expert hunter and magelight rather symmetrical. Why not make Fire Rune and its morphs worth slotting by making the dot target-bound while also granting the minor force buff?

If they follow this logic, just make one skill line and check box for magica v stam.

I mean once we make each skill identical, just diff source and dmg type its real easy.

Right?

Surely its not just this one skill pair in the whole of the game where the joy of sameness should be applied, right?

Your interpretation is a real stretch and missed the mark.

Anyways, the point is that nobody uses fire rune. Everybody uses trap beast. It doesn't have to be a copy and paste solution, but that seems like a reasonable suggestion considering they already went that route. If they make fire rune useful in some other way, of course that'd be great.

Well if this had been your opening post instead of you make it fo what the other does one my response would have been different.

Where did you get your ststs that nobody uses the one and everybody uses the other?

Birdovic · November 2016

At this point I'd be happy to see any improvements, really.
I wish Fire rune was a real person, so I could comfort it, it must be so sad and lonely, being ignored for so long and not used for almost all the time that ESO has existed (except for lulz, knocking people off keep walls).

Xvorg · November 2016

Fire rune, as well as manif of terror were great skills when they were concealed TRAPS...

Oreyn_Bearclaw · November 2016

I have had this convo many times. Magic classes need access to minor force that isnt from a stam skill. This is the most logical place to put it, especially considering that it is currently pretty useless in PVE. Seems simple enough.

Birdovic · November 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I have had this convo many times. Magic classes need access to minor force that isnt from a stam skill. This is the most logical place to put it, especially considering that it is currently pretty useless in PVE. Seems simple enough.

To be honest, I think trap beast is enough, for both magicka and stamina.
Fire Rune needs to do something unique, which helps PvP more than PvE.

What I'd do? Keeping it simple:

First of all, the damage needs to be tweaked, on both morphs (increased).
Then:

Volcanic Rune: Works the same as before with that knockback, but has higher chance to cause "burn".

Scalding Rune; 2 options:

1 ) Glacial Rune: Now deals Frost Damage and immobilizes everyone hit.
--> This is basically the counterpart to fire rune in what it does, just with one of Frost damages characteristic Secondary Effects, "immobilize".

2 ) Freezing Rune: A Frost Damage over time for 10 seconds, to everyone hit, also grants Minor Heroism for 9 seconds.
--> This is to bring more Proc Chance and possibility for Cold Damage Builds and a new Source for Minor Heroism to Magicka classes.

Yamenstein · November 2016

RazorCaltrops wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

The current highest trial DPS are Magicka. Makes no sense to push them higher.

Wait what ?...

Magicka was always the dominant one in PVE. I never saw more than 3 stam dds in a proper raid group, and that's before the VMA weapons nerf. Also never understood the qq about it. Stam's rotation is more unforgiving (you should practice a lot), your situational awareness must be top notch to stay alive and while a magicka character can still stay competitive even with a non-set sharpened inferno, you are heavily dependant on VMA weapons.

My magickaDK says hello

TankHealz2015 · November 2016

QUESTION:

When I look at the tooltip it (for me) the damage difference between Volcanic Rune and Fire Rune is quite small, but Volcanic Rune adds the knockback effect (which is very useful and fun to watch - especially in PvP).

So, please could somebody explain what is possible Fire Rune damage numbers and how to increase it?

* so many skills are affected in different ways... I find it confusing ... this one is increased by CP only, that one by Magika but not spell damage, etc....

Note: I'm playing a Dragonknight and looking to morph myself into AOE/DOT Build

Thanks!

s7732425ub17_ESO · November 2016

susmitds wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

The current highest trial DPS are Magicka. Makes no sense to push them higher.

Wait what ?...

@Juhasow

https://youtu.be/182BL1wwpoA

56k DPS on last boss vMoL Hard Mode. Literally the hardest boss in the game. Stamina DPS has effectively decreased by 5k this patch, while Magicka DPS got a boost from the new sets. While StamDK are still the second highest after Magplar, rest of the stamina classes, especially StamNBs got nerfed heavily in PvE. MagDK are the third highest now. Magicka sorcerers have also crossed 50k. Magicka NBs and Stamina NBs are the lowest DPS now with around 46k average.

Sounds like you are talking about a top, top, top group. Any class, mag or stam, playing in that group can hit 50k because of group mechanics.

In my group that clears VMOL multiple times each week in an hour or less, the average DPS is around 30k with 7/8 DPS being magicka. Honestly, no one is getting close to 45k+ on boss fights even with trash because we don't have constant warhorn uptime and are lacking perfect boss positioning. DPS above 30k is highly, highly group dependent. I guarantee that if the person in the video were to run with our group, they would not be hitting 56k DPS. They would be around 30-35k like the rest of the group.