How do I kill the new meta?

Kova

Hey guys, I play a magicka sorc and have been going hard since beta. Through the nerfs and stam buffs, I've stuck to my magicka sorc as a main, but I have dipped into the stam pool and made a few stam builds. They're super strong and honestly feel so much easier to play than my Magicka sorc.

All that aside, I have a genuine question and am seeking advice as to how I can kill the new viper/tremor/blkrose meta? I was able to get the best of the velidreth meta, and I even kept strong when everyone started slotting black rose. This new stuff is just...it's just brutal. I can't win a duel against people I've literally stomped into the ground a patch ago. I don't necessary lose, but it takes everything in my power to keep myself alive and hit that "omg this fight is going on forever" stalemate point.

Besides "git gud" and all that nice stuff, can I get some advice from people using this build on what your weak points are and if you've had trouble with any magicka sorcs that have actually won against you? Just trying to improve.

Bandit1215

Stamina builds are broken as hell this patch, so nothing you can do. Devs don't know how to balance and anyone who claims stam classes aren't broken have no idea what they are talking about. Sorry man but you're kinda screwed this patch.

WalksonGraves

So my lvl 12 stam sorc was wrecking 531 cps in Cyrodiil with hurricane. I'm kind of annoyed it's already out dpsing my nb with no skills, passives or gear.

NBrookus

You might try investing more into spell penetration. Almost every stam build is wearing heavy armor now it seems. Maybe healing reduction as well. Oh yeah, and be at least 3x better than they are.

I dueled one sorc I beat fairly easily on my mDK, then he asked for a rematch. He'd equipped Infernal Guardian and slotted defensive rune. All he did was rune, spam shields and wait for infernal guardian to stack mortars on top of me while I was cc breaking.

Rohamad_Ali

Spinners set gives good spell penetration . Night mothers sorrow gives good spell crit . Try some new sets . Still , like stated above , stamina is still over performing so it takes a ton of work and there is no one build reks all for magic .

actosh

Stam just has way too many proc based sets.
I just have to say this as a stam player ^^

Drdeath20

Stamina has the best pvp burst and single player defense and best ultimate.

Anti_Virus

Bandit1215 wrote: »

Stamina builds are broken as hell this patch, so nothing you can do. Devs don't know how to balance and anyone who claims stam classes aren't broken have no idea what they are talking about. Sorry man but you're kinda screwed this patch.

Nah stam builds aren't broken, if anything mag builds are, just roll a mag templar or DK and face roll everything in PVP with reactive+ malabeth

olsborg

actosh wrote: »

Stam just has way too many proc based sets.
I just have to say this as a stam player ^^

Stam builds arent broken, but the sets available to stam builds are, you can easily fit 3x procced sets into your build at great efficiencty and theres still just as many other procced sets for you to choose from.

covenant_merchant

If the person wearing black rose + viper + tremorscale/selene/velidreth w/e is a decent player, you can't kill him on a magicka sorc. Unless he makes a mistake or can't CC break (highely unlikely given Black Rose). On top of the ridiculously bad damage sorcs have now, the cost of skills did increase with the DB patch, and sustaining against stam builds without the magicka return from Harness Magicka is a nightmare. Even with elemental drain.
Your spammable skill costs 1.6k magicka with seducer, compared to nightblades' 900mana swallow soul (paired with siphoning attacks), and 1k stam for ransack (paired with black rose), and you have to spam shields constantly since one tremorscale+viper combo destroys them instantly.
And mines are useless against heavy armor. Most people can just tank through them, making it just a waste of mana.

I switched to 7 pieces impen on my mana sorc to avoid getting OS once my shields are down, which they constantly are given the insane damage that heavy armor users retain, but truth is, you can't do anything against these fotm stamina pieces of s**t.

I thought the best idea would be to burst them down, since pressuring only increases their weapon damage with the Wrath Passive, and gives them back resources. So I went Grothdar + Ice staff + Eye of Frost (destro staff ulti), and tried timing my stuff to immobilize the enemy with destructive reach inside the Eye of Frost and make curse + frags' proc + execute explode in it (with the lucky grothdar proc when available). While it did kill some pugs, most fotm black rose users just tanked through it. And worst part is, even when you're on the offensive, the destro staff ulti lasts 7 seconds. Your shields expire after 6. Even with 2k impen, it takes one dawnbreaker or ransack + tremorscale from the opponent to get you to 50% health while you're bursting.

Otherwise, you can try and go heavy armor Black rose + spinner + 1 undaunted piece + Master resto on your magicka sorc, with that new festival food (max mana + mana regen). I tried that build too. You get around 40k magicka, same spell damage 2.1k (the Wrath passive notwithstanding), 1.6k regen (Constitution passive notwithstanding), and 13k penetration (which is the same penetration I had on light armor with seducer + grothdar + willpower + vMSA staff). However, your stamina pool goes down to 12k, and health to 19k in Cyrodiil/duels. And to be honest, I don't feel any tankier with it, but then again, I tried it in open world where I was getting zerged.

It's up to you. You can try things, and desperately seek to prove that magicka sorc still has something to offer, or you can switch to stamina along with 80% of the game and have fun tremorscaling each other to death. Go fotm or go home.

DKsUnite

Anti_Virus wrote: »

just roll a mag templar or DK and face roll everything in PVP with reactive+ malabeth

ummm since when does a mDK ever face roll in PvP? Especially with malu and reactive on...

NBrookus

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Nah stam builds aren't broken, if anything mag builds are, just roll a mag templar or DK and face roll everything in PVP with reactive+ malabeth

Yes, please roll an mDK and faceroll everything.

Anti_Virus

DKsUnite wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

just roll a mag templar or DK and face roll everything in PVP with reactive+ malabeth

ummm since when does a mDK ever face roll in PvP? Especially with malu and reactive on...

It's possible, I didn't mean to say that they are OP like mTemplars but they don't suck. Especially with the new sets in 1T.

What mDks lack in mobility they make up for in their sturdyness and survivability, lots of dots and utility skills help them out (although they have some of the highest costing abilities)

nCats

Mostly agree with kasa-obake's post above.

If the enemy is skillful and knows what they are doing, I do not expect a win myself. However, with all the hype there are many less skilled people who grinded Viper/Veli/you name it, and they can be taken down consistently once you see their tactics, or even before.

Anti_Virus

olsborg wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

Stam just has way too many proc based sets.
I just have to say this as a stam player ^^

Stam builds arent broken, but the sets available to stam builds are, you can easily fit 3x procced sets into your build at great efficiencty and theres still just as many other procced sets for you to choose from.

Yeah, and to reiterate. Stam builds aren't broken they are just competitive now since 1.5, heavy amor isn't broken it competitive now since the game was released.

However there are some sets that are way over tuned in staminas favor( BR, Viper, Velidreth etc.)

Kova

That's what i want to reiterate as well, I'm specifically talking about the new meta. Stam is super strong, but it's manageable.

But I feel like I have to play a perfect game every time just to tie with a decent player running the new stuff.

geonsocal

for "dueling"...maybe equip ravage stam/health poison on your weapons?

DannyLV702

Mines, my friend. Use your mines wisely.

acw37162

Not even a full page of posts and stamina is broken boys are out.

I swear I think some posters have that Complaint assigned to a macro key.

FriedEggSandwich

High burst, stack shields, streak to create distance if you think they have a combo for you, and hope they screw up. I like vunerability poisons to help with burst and they don't show up on the cobat log afaik.

Kova

acw37162 wrote: »

Not even a full page of posts and stamina is broken boys are out.

I swear I think some posters have that Complaint assigned to a macro key.

I know, it's like your political uncle at a dinner. Even the ham sparks some diatribe about some candidate.

Open world is just out maneuvering. I'm more less talking about duels.

Izaki

Bandit1215 wrote: »

Stamina builds are broken as hell this patch, so nothing you can do. Devs don't know how to balance and anyone who claims stam classes aren't broken have no idea what they are talking about. Sorry man but you're kinda screwed this patch.

Dude its not stamina classes that are broken. Its the meta thats broken. There's a huge difference. Heavy armor with infinite resources and a 1-shot burst? Not all stamina builds are like that. Some people are still using legit builds, but those are few because most are wannabes and the only thing they want is to get kills off without having to actually learn to play their class properly. Although it does take some skill to animation cancel a light attack, a puncture and a bash but really thats as far as it goes. You could also argue that it takes some skill to roll dodge animation cancel Vigor and Rally.
To be honest its easier to survive that burst when you're nicely shielded up with Harness and Hardened Ward. Through on a healing ward on top and at that point you really just won't get one-shot. Get to around 25k health and you won't get one-shot. Put on some penetration and you'll go through that heavy armor easy.

Izaki

Oh yeah, also use Mines wisely. If you play it right, its almost impossible to get CC'd in your Mines by a stamina build. They have to be in your face to do their burst, but if they walk over those Mines, well first they take damage and have to heal up at some point and second well they are immobilized so you have time to Streak through them and put your Mines down again.

Kova

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Oh yeah, also use Mines wisely. If you play it right, its almost impossible to get CC'd in your Mines by a stamina build. They have to be in your face to do their burst, but if they walk over those Mines, well first they take damage and have to heal up at some point and second well they are immobilized so you have time to Streak through them and put your Mines down again.

That brings up another point, how does everyone feel about using mines? I've switched out for boundless storm or encase because Ive had players say it was cheap, although they seem to be the same meta players...

All aside, I've found a pretty good way to get them down. I've switched to infernal guardian and I'm using a combo of burning spellweaver and seducer and, guys this fantastic, it looks like guardian mortars don't proc wrath. So i can go full defense and still pressure them until i can get into that sweet burst spot.

Like I said though, even with this setup i can't make a single mistake or they'll just duneviper me into a DB, it just takes some of the pressure off.

NBrookus

Use mines if you want to. It's a basic sorc tool. It's just silly for people to expect you not to use a skill just because it annoys them.

Kova wrote: »

duneviper me into a DB

CasNation

Destructive clench them off of Alessia bridge.

Joy_Division

A skillfully played sorc is still strong because shield stacking is still a dumb OP mechanic. I get it, it's not as convenient as it was pre TG when sorcs had 20 seconds of stacked shields, but in the middle of a fight, they still can stack two shields that will keep them alive against all the viper, velidreth, and whatever poison procs stam builds are using.

Sallington

actosh wrote: »

Stam just has way too many proc based sets.
I just have to say this as a stam player ^^

Yup.

Stam: Viper, Widowmaker, Velidreth, Red Mountain, etc.

Magicka: Galerion lolololol

The best non-monster set proc for magicka is probably Winterborn, and you need to equip an Ice Staff for that. The most underpeforming weapon in the game for DPS.