HP-scaling in (normal) dungeons is utterly off

daedalusAI

Currently wiping in Banished Cells II.
The big group before the 3rd warden: 6+ mobs with health between 90k-230k.
How is a group of 3 lvl 20-40 and 1 lvl 17 champion supposed to survive that without several wipes?
Edit: 3rd warden with 1,3million hp and her adds with about 50k each.

TheDarkRuler

Short: You're not supposed to be able to beat that.
One more (of a long list) of bugs.

daedalusAI

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

Short: You're not supposed to be able to beat that.
One more (of a long list) of bugs.

Did it just fine yesterday with groups as low as my current one.

mtwiggz

You wipe several times until you beat it. Welcome to ESO. Everything is possible with enough cheese.

daedalusAI

mtwiggz wrote: »

You wipe several times until you beat it. Welcome to ESO. Everything is possible with enough cheese.

Weird though that today with patch 2.6.5 and the hp-scaling I need way more cheese and have to end the run at the 3rd warden - when yesterday I was able to finish the full run without getting hungry for cheese.

Nestor

daedalusAI wrote: »

Weird though that today with patch 2.6.5 and the hp-scaling I need way more cheese and have to end the run at the 3rd warden - when yesterday I was able to finish the full run without getting hungry for cheese.

Who was group leader when you entered the dungeon? What level were/are they?

daedalusAI

Nestor wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

Weird though that today with patch 2.6.5 and the hp-scaling I need way more cheese and have to end the run at the 3rd warden - when yesterday I was able to finish the full run without getting hungry for cheese.

Who was group leader when you entered the dungeon? What level were/are they?

The current fail run was a lvl 17 vet and me and 2 other between lvl 20 and 40 as posted above.
Uh can't remember who the lead was - but shouldn't be a major concern as the system is supposed to scale it.

The glaring difference still remains: yesterday before 2.6.5 hit I could run normal II dungeons just fine with low-level just as myself - but as of today not anymore.

Cazic

Nestor wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

Weird though that today with patch 2.6.5 and the hp-scaling I need way more cheese and have to end the run at the 3rd warden - when yesterday I was able to finish the full run without getting hungry for cheese.

Who was group leader when you entered the dungeon? What level were/are they?

Don't think that matters anymore as everything is now scaled up to CP160. Doesn't make a difference who the group leader is.

@daedalusAI sounds like maybe some of your group mates were under-geared, or their skill rotations weren't optimal.

daedalusAI

Cazic wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

Weird though that today with patch 2.6.5 and the hp-scaling I need way more cheese and have to end the run at the 3rd warden - when yesterday I was able to finish the full run without getting hungry for cheese.

Who was group leader when you entered the dungeon? What level were/are they?

Don't think that matters anymore as everything is now scaled up to CP160. Doesn't make a difference who the group leader is.

@daedalusAI sounds like maybe some of your group mates were under-geared, or their skill rotations weren't optimal.

I doubt this is the explanation. The adds on the 3rd warden had like 50k+ health each. After 3 of her phases where she goes into the orb and adds spawn we had like 2 groups of her add still alive after she emerged and were unable to kill them.

Cazic

daedalusAI wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

Weird though that today with patch 2.6.5 and the hp-scaling I need way more cheese and have to end the run at the 3rd warden - when yesterday I was able to finish the full run without getting hungry for cheese.

Who was group leader when you entered the dungeon? What level were/are they?

The current fail run was a lvl 17 vet and me and 2 other between lvl 20 and 40 as posted above.
Uh can't remember who the lead was - but shouldn't be a major concern as the system is supposed to scale it.

The glaring difference still remains: yesterday before 2.6.5 hit I could run normal II dungeons just fine with low-level just as myself - but as of today not anymore.

Just in case you missed this detail in the patch notes...

Dungeons & Group Content
General

• Monsters in Normal versions of dungeons have had their health increased to the correct levels.

That would explain why things are suddenly different in 2.6.5. Not sure if you're already considering that or not.

daedalusAI

Cazic wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

Weird though that today with patch 2.6.5 and the hp-scaling I need way more cheese and have to end the run at the 3rd warden - when yesterday I was able to finish the full run without getting hungry for cheese.

Who was group leader when you entered the dungeon? What level were/are they?

The current fail run was a lvl 17 vet and me and 2 other between lvl 20 and 40 as posted above.
Uh can't remember who the lead was - but shouldn't be a major concern as the system is supposed to scale it.

The glaring difference still remains: yesterday before 2.6.5 hit I could run normal II dungeons just fine with low-level just as myself - but as of today not anymore.

Just in case you missed this detail in the patch notes...

Dungeons & Group Content
General

• Monsters in Normal versions of dungeons have had their health increased to the correct levels.

That would explain why things are suddenly different in 2.6.5. Not sure if you're already considering that or not.

I didn't - that's precisely why I made this post.
The scaling just seem utterly off.

There are other threads reporting the same weird hp-scaling.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/296491/vet-darkshade-caverns-ii#latest

JKith

I agree,.. HP is off.

In a normal dungeon the trash mobs had 150k to 350k health and the little mini bosses inside the trash mob had 1.5mil... whaaaaaat? For a normal? Don't ever remember it being like that.

daedalusAI

JKith wrote: »

I agree,.. HP is off.

In a normal dungeon the trash mobs had 150k to 350k health and the little mini bosses inside the trash mob had 1.5mil... whaaaaaat? For a normal? Don't ever remember it being like that.

Imagine me as a healer hitting a 1.3mil boss for 1k each on a heavy attack with resto staff.

Nestor

Cazic wrote: »

Don't think that matters anymore as everything is now scaled up to CP160. Doesn't make a difference who the group leader is.

@daedalusAI sounds like maybe some of your group mates were under-geared, or their skill rotations weren't optimal.

I have not done a Dungeon as a Premade yet, so was not sure if that scaling was still in place or not. Or, had an effect on the mobs.

I did poke my nose into a group dungeon for the Craglorn MQ and while this character could solo most things, this is not the case anymore with Group Dungeons.

JKith

The easiest part of the dungeon was the final boss... lol... The trash mobs were way harder.

daedalusAI

Nestor wrote: »

Cazic wrote: »

Don't think that matters anymore as everything is now scaled up to CP160. Doesn't make a difference who the group leader is.

@daedalusAI sounds like maybe some of your group mates were under-geared, or their skill rotations weren't optimal.

I have not done a Dungeon as a Premade yet, so was not sure if that scaling was still in place or not. Or, had an effect on the mobs.

I did poke my nose into a group dungeon for the Craglorn MQ and while this character could solo most things, this is not the case anymore with Group Dungeons.

Either the hp values are too high, there is some hidden mechanic which increases the damage the mobs do according to their health pools or the group scaling doesn't account for the new hp values of mobs.

Either way: pretty pathetic.

j3crow

I agree that somethng is off. I've had similar expereinces where in one group, a dungeon would be a breeze, and than with a different configuration and the very same dungeon turns into a train wreck. At first I thought it was purely player/build issues, so I started really paying attention. My own damage output seemed to be dramtically changing, regardless of the fact that nothing changed in my build or rotation. This happend in a group that for the most part, was wearing the right stuff, and doing the right stuff. We completed the run, buut it was rediculously tedious.

gard

Vet dungeons are a huge grind now. As a cp395 I was a member of groups over the weekend who completed CoA, Elden Hollow, WGT, and ICP on hard mode. Not really fun anymore imo. I see from the patch notes that some of the ICP bosses got health reduction - THANK YOU! That fight made the final boss fight seem easy.

Groups composed of dps builds who can do high sustained dps will succeed. Those who can't sustain will have a hard time. I don't mind that so much, but surely there's an optimal boss hp level where the fight is difficult but not torturous. I wish the devs could find that sweet spot.

daedalusAI

j3crow wrote: »

I agree that somethng is off. I've had similar expereinces where in one group, a dungeon would be a breeze, and than with a different configuration and the very same dungeon turns into a train wreck. At first I thought it was purely player/build issues, so I started really paying attention. My own damage output seemed to be dramtically changing, regardless of the fact that nothing changed in my build or rotation. This happend in a group that for the most part, was wearing the right stuff, and doing the right stuff. We completed the run, buut it was rediculously tedious.

Which means that a low-level group like I had in a normal II dungeon will quickly hit a wall and has to abandon the run - a normal II run which was doable before 2.6.5 hit even with a full low-level group.

So I have to bench my low-level heal for now because I won't suffer through this hp-mess in dungeons.

daedalusAI

To whom shall I report those obviously strange hp-numbers and group scaling after the patch hit?

nvyr

I'm considered a very good healer by many I've grouped with but since the last patch I'm having a lot of difficulty keeping my group alive and not running out of mana. Never had any issues healing or DPSing in groups until now. This patch definitely through things off balance.

daedalusAI

nvyr wrote: »

I'm considered a very good healer by many I've grouped with but since the last patch I'm having a lot of difficulty keeping my group alive and not running out of mana. Never had any issues healing or DPSing in groups until now. This patch definitely through things off balance.

Of course you run out of mana if your standard dungeon mob now has like 90k+ health and still comes in the same pack size as before.

But worry not: will be fixed as quickly as the launcher for EU.

Origin

@daedalusAI, I'm not sure that the scaling is supposed to make a type 2 dungeon easy for low level characters since this is actually previously known as veteran mode for that specific dungeon.

Origin

nvyr wrote: »

I'm considered a very good healer by many I've grouped with but since the last patch I'm having a lot of difficulty keeping my group alive and not running out of mana. Never had any issues healing or DPSing in groups until now. This patch definitely through things off balance.

I noticed also issues with magika regeneration - it seems to be reduced lately. On top of it, I think that there are also some bugs because yesterday in one dungeon I was not able to regenerate my magika using light and heavy attacks. I had to logout and login again to solve it. Other people had problems with health regeneration / healing not restoring full health or with the ultimate recharge.

daedalusAI

Origin wrote: »

@daedalusAI, I'm not sure that the scaling is supposed to make a type 2 dungeon easy for low level characters since this is actually previously known as veteran mode for that specific dungeon.

I noticed that the II dungeons are the old vet dungeons.
But that doesn't change the problem: before 2.6.5. if could run the II dungeons I had unlocked without any major problems even with a low-level group around my own lvl of 27.

Now that is no longer possible: the mobs have gained way more life than a low-level group can output damage - which in turn means I either am unable to heal them or running out of mana on a puny group of a few mobs.

It shouldn't be easy to do those II dungeons: but that I can't do a II dungeon now which a cleared a day earlier really raises a big question mark.

Grabmoore

I had so much fun in dungeons this weekend! Finally you need to take care for mechanics again and be careful not to stand in each aoe possible.

Please don't change the difficulty! People should adapt. Like Alcast said recently: "People, who don't shield themselves in trials will get noobfiltered."
Same is true for dungeons. I learned it the hard way not to use Guard on my magicka Templar at the final boss of crucible

DocFrost72

Grabmoore wrote: »

I had so much fun in dungeons this weekend! Finally you need to take care for mechanics again and be careful not to stand in each aoe possible.

Please don't change the difficulty! People should adapt. Like Alcast said recently: "People, who don't shield themselves in trials will get noobfiltered."
Same is true for dungeons. I learned it the hard way not to use Guard on my magicka Templar at the final boss of crucible

And if it were not a regular dungeon, I'd be right with you. The discussion is one of normal dungeons (meant to be possible at level 10 up) not being reasonable. Sure, you can play the challenge card. We absolutely should have challenging content....vet content.


Edit:

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

Something's broken here @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn:

daedalusAI

I'm running normal Banished Cells II to provide a few screenshots what a joke this hp- and damage scaling:

Your standard mob has between 90k-130k.


Already dead at the first group.


1st keeper. Almost 1million hp but barely any mechanic.


2 fire wave hits and I'm dead.


Maw with 1.3million hp and also barely any mechanic.


2nd keeper. Almost 1million hp. And look at that damage.


3rd keeper. 1.3million hp.


3rd keeper, 2nd adds: 4x 100k hp


3rd keeper, 3rd adds: 3x 200k hp
Even with a sorc and mageplar we barely were able to sometimes kill the clannfears before another add phase was upon us.


Damage of the adds.

Wiped like 6 or 7 times before giving up.

When before the patch I could run this and maybe have a death in my group due to not moving out or red.
Laughable.

czajos

Yup this is nonsense...
Tryed normals II today still every one just leaves after getiing wiped several times

CombatPrayer

They ruined dungeons. They have a lot of casual players that like to come in and run through the dungeons. I know hard core players hate casuals, but TES has massive numbers of casual players and ESO got them from name brand. I have seen several players who were enjoying ESO become quite disheartened at dungeon changes in the update. I have seen a few hardcore players say WTF and sort of drift toward playing less. This will cost them. They clearly don't know their base and seem to cater to the hardcore players who do not seem to be in the majority. Also, low level players will now be terrified of dungeons and that will gear them toward never playing them at all. So by design, they have just alienated the bulk of newcomers from ever doing the long term content. And if they never do dungeons they will surely never do trials. This means that the best it gets is silver/gold from cadwell then they will maybe make a new toon and when they are done with that they will move on.

daedalusAI

autumnsongbird wrote: »

They ruined dungeons. They have a lot of casual players that like to come in and run through the dungeons. I know hard core players hate casuals, but TES has massive numbers of casual players and ESO got them from name brand. I have seen several players who were enjoying ESO become quite disheartened at dungeon changes in the update. I have seen a few hardcore players say WTF and sort of drift toward playing less. This will cost them. They clearly don't know their base and seem to cater to the hardcore players who do not seem to be in the majority. Also, low level players will now be terrified of dungeons and that will gear them toward never playing them at all. So by design, they have just alienated the bulk of newcomers from ever doing the long term content. And if they never do dungeons they will surely never do trials. This means that the best it gets is silver/gold from cadwell then they will maybe make a new toon and when they are done with that they will move on.

That's why my dk healer in the screenshots above will be benched immediately and I already have to level up another toon because she was designed to only level with dungeons till 50.