Any thoughts on Stamina DK DW/S&B DPS?

BlanketFort

I'm sick and tired of using DW/2H because I hate how 2H looks when wielding it. Just switched to DW/Bow last night and the first Normal Dungeon run with it (fresh off from respeccing) went "ok" and I'm sure if I invest more time into learning and incorporating my rotations, I'll eventually get the hang of it and fine tune where necessary, however, it seems that Sword and Board is calling out my name and I'd very much like to give it a try.

I only have one toon (and only play one) and that's a Redguard DK. I only play PvE and only as DPS (or something like it...). The extra Tankiness that S&B offers is greatly appealing to me, as I try not to be as squishy, where possible.

I don't care all that much in min/maxing but I'd lie if I said I don't bother at all. My toon still has to be able to carry its own weight (in whatever way and degree possible) in group play while not sacrificing my preferred play style, anything else would just be an insult to the group I'd be playing with (I don't do a lot of group play but It still matters )And would only give me great difficulty when soloing.

I was thinking:

Bar 1: DW Daggers
#1 Venomous Claws
#2 Bloodthirst - I prefer the heal
#3 Steel Tornadoes
#4 Flames of Oblivion
#5 Flying Blade - as a range option and that 20% wep buff doesn't hurt, either
ULT: Corrosive Armour

Bar 2: Sword and Board
#1 Shielded Assault
#2 Deep Slash (maybe?)
#3 Defensive Stance (maybe?)
#4 Flames of Oblivion (or should I just leave this out on this bar) /Noxious Breath / Shuffle / Igenous Shield for that extra heal?
#5 Molten Armaments
ULT: I'm open for ideas

I don't PvP so I don't have Vigor or any of the other skills which one gets from PvP. I just get by with pots since GDB is not all that neat.

I haven't really thought this out that well but I was hoping that, perhaps, someone could point me in the right direction. Or perhaps it's silly and I'm better sticking with DW/Bow. Just don't make me go back to 2H xD

EDIT: Spelling and Grammar

MrTarkanian48

1H1S is just not viable as a PVE damage build. The damage is low, the passives are more defensive than offensive, and the only added damage ability is Deep/Heroic Slash which is not a good spammable. You can not use Ransack/Pierce Armor as it is a taunt and will pull aggro from your tank. 1H1S is really only good for tanks, or PVP builds.

As for Shielded Assault, or gap closers in general, these should also not be used in PVE.

2H is also not good, so don't use it. Its a PVP weapon.

Stam DK's thrive on dots. And you have the strongest in the game with Venomous Claw. You want to develop a rotation that deals as much damage as possible and is as efficient as possible. This would involve cycling rapid strikes in between DoTs, and trying to reapply the DoTs after they run out.

DW: Evil Hunter, Rearming Trap, Rapid Strikes, Venom Claw, Rending Slash, Flawless Dawnbreaker

Bow: Flames of Oblivion, Poison Injection, Endless Hail, Igneous Weapons, (Flex: Vigor, Caltrops, or GDB).

If you check out AlcastHQ on youtube he has some good videos showing his rotation on his "Venom" build. You won't have access to the best gear yet, but he provides other alternatives.

As a DPS you want to maximize your damage output. If your healer and tank are good, you should not have to build to be tanky or worry much about healing yourself. It is your job to avoid obvious damage, so stay out of the red circles. If your healer or tank are lacking a bit you can always swap in Corrosive Armor or more heals.

BlanketFort

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

1H1S is just not viable as a PVE damage build. The damage is low, the passives are more defensive than offensive, and the only added damage ability is Deep/Heroic Slash which is not a good spammable. You can not use Ransack/Pierce Armor as it is a taunt and will pull aggro from your tank. 1H1S is really only good for tanks, or PVP builds.

As for Shielded Assault, or gap closers in general, these should also not be used in PVE.

2H is also not good, so don't use it. Its a PVP weapon.

Stam DK's thrive on dots. And you have the strongest in the game with Venomous Claw. You want to develop a rotation that deals as much damage as possible and is as efficient as possible. This would involve cycling rapid strikes in between DoTs, and trying to reapply the DoTs after they run out.

DW: Evil Hunter, Rearming Trap, Rapid Strikes, Venom Claw, Rending Slash, Flawless Dawnbreaker

Bow: Flames of Oblivion, Poison Injection, Endless Hail, Igneous Weapons, (Flex: Vigor, Caltrops, or GDB).

If you check out AlcastHQ on youtube he has some good videos showing his rotation on his "Venom" build. You won't have access to the best gear yet, but he provides other alternatives.

As a DPS you want to maximize your damage output. If your healer and tank are good, you should not have to build to be tanky or worry much about healing yourself. It is your job to avoid obvious damage, so stay out of the red circles. If your healer or tank are lacking a bit you can always swap in Corrosive Armor or more heals.

@MrTarkanian48

So I checked out Alcast's Venom Build.

I gotta say, I'm disheartened that a 1H and Shield is not viable. I had so much fun playing it (I just went ahead and tried it out) and was the most rewarding play style I've ever had. It was fabulous just zipping from one enemy to the other with Shielded Assault, getting up close and personal, and bashing their faces in.

What I had... :S&B: Shielded Assault, Heroic Slash, Venomous Claw, Flames of Oblivion, Molten Armaments.

DW: Bloodcraze, Bloodthirst, Steel Tornado, Flames of Oblivion, Shrouded Daggers (love that skill!)

The thing I don't like about the bow is that it is not "in your face" like the the one hand and shield is. what I did was slot Heroic Slash and weave in Medium attacks with Bloodthirst to build up Ultimate as quickly as possible then Dragon Leap everywhere and Steel Tornado the rest of their HP away. I had so much Ultimate that I'd be popping off Dragon Leap every other Mob encounter.

On account of your advise, I did try out DW and Bow again, albeit the skills are different from Alcast's or your suggestion.

DW: Blood Craze, Bloodthirst, Venomous Claw, Flames of Oblivion and Steel Tornado. Ult: Corrosive Armour

Bow: Arrow Barrage (I prefer a bigger radius), Poison Injection, Noxious Breath (eventually swapping it out for Re-arming Trap), Flames of Oblivion and Molten Armaments. Ult: Standard of Might

I just don't have the PvP skills/abilities and quite frankly, I simply never will as I abhor PvP play, hence, Blood Craze and Bloodthirst over their other morphs to somewhat make up for not slotting Vigor.

Anywho, taking down mobs was slightly faster but lacked the element of "fun" for me. But I guess I'll have to subject myself to it if I am to continue my ESO life without being screamed and cursed at during Dungeons.

I thank you for your time and insightful advice

BTW: why should gap closers not be used for PvE? I thought it was rather fun and somewhat efficient to get back in melee range and replenish my stamina (works wonderfully with Redguard's Adrenaline Rush passive).

Acsvf

BlanketFort wrote: »

BTW: why should gap closers not be used for PvE? I thought it was rather fun and somewhat efficient to get back in melee range and replenish my stamina (works wonderfully with Redguard's Adrenaline Rush passive).

They don't really do much. Not to mention that you shouldn't be moving that much to justify a slot for gap closers anyways. In a DW/Bow setup for example, you're switching to bow for buffs and laying down 2-3 AOEs- you're not moving to 20 meters just do use those.

MrTarkanian48

@BlanketFort

I was simply trying to point you in the direction of top performance. Unfortunately, what works the best is not always what is the most fun for you or your playstyle.

Ultimately this is a game, and the point of playing is to have fun. If sword and board is fun for you than by all means go for it.

The thing about 1H1S is that the skills and passives are set up for defense rather than offense. Most passives are for increased block mitigation, reduced block cost, making bash more effective etc. You do get 5% weapon damage, but this does not make up for the lack of offense. You can do damage with 1H1S, but it will be less effective at dealing damage. It will make you tankier, but that should not be the goal in group content, because you should have a designated tank to absorb most of the damage. Your job is to kill things efficiently, which makes life easier for your healer and tank.

If you substitute 1H1S for either DW or Bow you lose a lot.

DW
DW provides the highest weapon damage in the game. This is because you get the full tooltip damage of 1 weapon (1335 at CP 160 Gold quality) and then 26% of the offhand weapon (so 1335*0.26=347). 1335+347=1682 Weapon Damage just for using DW. Compare this to 1H1S is 1335*1.05=1401. So 1H1S is a net loss of 281 Weapon Damage. You also can use double sharpened weapons for 5280 penetration which is a large damage boost over 1H1S single sharpened weapon.

Also DW has offensive passives. Increased damage by 20% on targets below 25% health. Basically all DW attacks become a semi execute on low health targets. You also get increased damage through twin bald and blunt passive based on weapon choice (Crit% for dagger, penetration for mace, bleed proc for axe). You have a strong spammable in Rapid Strikes, a solid DoT in Rending Slash, and arguably the best AoE in Steel Tornado. You also can use double sharpened weapons for 5280 penetration which is a huge damage boost over 1H1S single sharpened weapon.

Bow
Your bow bar is used for buffs and laying down dots. So you swap here, lay down dots like Endless Hail, Poison Injection, and Rearming Trap (This is a must have, strong damage and increased crit damage=huge), and then swap back to DW. Endless Hail is one of the strongest DoTs in the game on stationary targets. DKs also lack an execute, so Poison Injection is huge when bosses are low on health. A key component is that your weapon damage is lower on your bow bar, however, when you lay the DoTs down and swap to your DW bar, the game calculates the DoT damage off your current DW bar damage, so they hit harder.

Your ultimate of choice would be Standard of might. Once you get all of your dots on target, you drop standard, and it makes all of your DoTs hit 20% harder for 17 seconds. This is a massive damage boost that blows Dragon Leap out of the water.



Again, this is a game. Play what makes you happy. Especially for solo content.

The problem is when you start doing group content with other people. Everyone has a role, and typically everyone as a whole has more fun when everyone is performing their role well.

If you play with friends, and everyone is just there to have a good time, then it won't be much of a factor. However, if you join the group finder and people see there DPS gap closing with 1H1S and dragon leaping instead of laying down as many dots as possible, you may find yourself getting kicked from a group now and then if the group is struggling.

BlanketFort

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

@BlanketFort

I was simply trying to point you in the direction of top performance. Unfortunately, what works the best is not always what is the most fun for you or your playstyle.

Ultimately this is a game, and the point of playing is to have fun. If sword and board is fun for you than by all means go for it.

The thing about 1H1S is that the skills and passives are set up for defense rather than offense. Most passives are for increased block mitigation, reduced block cost, making bash more effective etc. You do get 5% weapon damage, but this does not make up for the lack of offense. You can do damage with 1H1S, but it will be less effective at dealing damage. It will make you tankier, but that should not be the goal in group content, because you should have a designated tank to absorb most of the damage. Your job is to kill things efficiently, which makes life easier for your healer and tank.

If you substitute 1H1S for either DW or Bow you lose a lot.

DW
DW provides the highest weapon damage in the game. This is because you get the full tooltip damage of 1 weapon (1335 at CP 160 Gold quality) and then 26% of the offhand weapon (so 1335*0.26=347). 1335+347=1682 Weapon Damage just for using DW. Compare this to 1H1S is 1335*1.05=1401. So 1H1S is a net loss of 281 Weapon Damage. You also can use double sharpened weapons for 5280 penetration which is a large damage boost over 1H1S single sharpened weapon.

Also DW has offensive passives. Increased damage by 20% on targets below 25% health. Basically all DW attacks become a semi execute on low health targets. You also get increased damage through twin bald and blunt passive based on weapon choice (Crit% for dagger, penetration for mace, bleed proc for axe). You have a strong spammable in Rapid Strikes, a solid DoT in Rending Slash, and arguably the best AoE in Steel Tornado. You also can use double sharpened weapons for 5280 penetration which is a huge damage boost over 1H1S single sharpened weapon.

Bow
Your bow bar is used for buffs and laying down dots. So you swap here, lay down dots like Endless Hail, Poison Injection, and Rearming Trap (This is a must have, strong damage and increased crit damage=huge), and then swap back to DW. Endless Hail is one of the strongest DoTs in the game on stationary targets. DKs also lack an execute, so Poison Injection is huge when bosses are low on health. A key component is that your weapon damage is lower on your bow bar, however, when you lay the DoTs down and swap to your DW bar, the game calculates the DoT damage off your current DW bar damage, so they hit harder.

Your ultimate of choice would be Standard of might. Once you get all of your dots on target, you drop standard, and it makes all of your DoTs hit 20% harder for 17 seconds. This is a massive damage boost that blows Dragon Leap out of the water.



Again, this is a game. Play what makes you happy. Especially for solo content.

The problem is when you start doing group content with other people. Everyone has a role, and typically everyone as a whole has more fun when everyone is performing their role well.

If you play with friends, and everyone is just there to have a good time, then it won't be much of a factor. However, if you join the group finder and people see there DPS gap closing with 1H1S and dragon leaping instead of laying down as many dots as possible, you may find yourself getting kicked from a group now and then if the group is struggling.

You are absolutely right, and I do agree with you.
I have changed back to DW And Bow and found it to be more effective and efficient.

As to my dilemma, I've decided to use DW and S&B for solo play, since I do play solo way more than I group up. And then I'll just swap out S&B for a Bow when I do dungeons. It's now clear to me that S&B just won't do in dungeons, and that's fine

I've done the math myself before, as well, with DW and S&B and it was clear to me from the start that S&B is nowhere as cool as DW. This I know. Which is why I was actually hoping for someone to come along and help me optimise the S&B and DW skill bars instead of being told that it's not viable (because this was obvious). But that's moot now I think I can handle having to switch from one weapon to the other if I want to do a dungeon and switch back to S&B when soloing.