DK(-Heal) Feedback for U13 [PVE]

Zakor

Since I tried it many times in the official feedback threads after an update I now try it before. So in the following I'll describe what problems I see for the current DK-Healer in PVE (and a few other things) and may offer a way to fix this. Feel free to discuss this in a constructive manner. So let's start with one of the biggest problems:

1. Duration of Obsidian Shield reduced to 6s
   While I see WHY they've done this I still think it's a very bad change. Especially the Igneous Shield morph was hit by this. If you care to see why see spoiler with my feedback from PTS.
   
   As DK-Heal I hate the change to Obsidian Shield. DK-Heals are suspected to get dmg of the group while using shields, dmg debuffs, armor buffs,... . I have to cast Igneous Shield if my group needs much heal since I need the heal buff. But I don't have to heal them when they are shielded! So with the change from 20 secs duration to 6 you just doomed me to spam that shield ZOS. Well, I would be fine with that but just lets recap some points:
   

   • The shield is pretty expensive, even for a mag user
   • Range is very small with 12m
   • It scales of from health (yep, even the heal morph)
   • The values of the shield on the group were damn small already (close to 4k, thats not even one hit in dungeons; remember that shields don't have armor values)
   • Bone shield now scales of stamina while other shields scale of health
   
   So what to do with the Igneous Shield to make it better suited for our healing duties?
   1. Remove those 100% bonus on caster and increase shield value by ~30%. This way the shield could possibly stand one hit on a groupmember. Whats the sense of me being alive while my group lies down?
   2. Increase the duration back to something around 10-12 seconds. Again, shielded allies need no heal. DKs dont have good ressource tools so this would help in reducing healcosts.
   3. To consider: Let it scale of magicka. It sounds silly that I as healer have to put points in health so my shield is stronger. Yeah this could lead to imbalances with mDK but I'm willing to try
   
   To everyone complaining"I need this for my clearly-not-healer-whatever-build": No you don't and in fact it was never designed for you. Don't screw your healers just because dragon blood can't keep you up or whatever you are using is to weak. These problems are not related to Igneous Shield and should be addressed at the specific ability.
   
   
2. Obsidian Shard
   While they constantly buff this morph it's still to weak. It has travel time and it's not sure you heal the one you want. The CC mostly is useless in the common scenario (boss fight) and the damage ...well. Back in the days I saw a great suggestion to fix this from @Armitas I would like to cite here:
   

   Armitas wrote: »

   Obsidian Shard - This heal just seems awkward and without purpose. What are the chances I would need to heal and CC at the same time? How many bosses are CC-able and why would I use this heal for trash mobs. Why wouldn't I use healing ward instead? This skill really needs to stand out from among the universal and class heals.
   
   I would like to see this shard do no damage but instead explode into a large aoe circle in the location of the the target that buffs the players in the circle as well has heals them like healing springs only with a larger upfront heal with minor ticks behind it. Also increase the cast cost of the skill and make the duration 8 seconds.
   
   The buff could be (note some will require an increased cast cost)

   • Crit defense
   • Minor spell and physical mitigation
   • 2k shield in PvP
   • 1320 Armor Penetration
   • Stamina Regen hot.

   
   The heal should be

   • ~2000 in PvP on the first tick
   • ~800 in PvP on the subsequent ticks.

   
   If I have succeed in tuning Obsidian Shard then healing ward, blessing of restoration and healing springs will still be primary heal sources, while Obsidian Shard will be used in between as a buff rotation and aoe localized rapid regen.
   
   This will give Obsidian Shard a clear, common, and desirable purpose while still being valuable for solo use.

   
   I for myself would even go a step further and make this ability ground castable, like you build a totem in which aura your group is healed and protected. The first tick of the totem would be a huge heal and applies one of the mentioned buffs (I would go with the stam regen). So this would help the caster supporting the group. Then there should be added something for the group to use it like: "While near the totem a friendly target constantly regains x Health. If the target is at full health, this will apply a shield instead." There is also the possibility for a synergy which could add a damage component to the totem or add another buff in the zone.
   
   This way you would have to decide between healing springs (cheap and failsafe) or the totem(expensive, strong first heal, weak afterwards). It should be implemented that you WANT to use the totem for the buffs if your group can take the (slightly) lower healings. Or you take both and lose another ability But at least it would be a choice.
   
   
3. Cauterize
   While I love the idea behind this (I suggested something like this) the actual implementation needs to be changed. At the moment it's a bit random if the heal is usefull or wasted and while you can use the first tick as an "instant-unaimed-combatprayer-like-singleheal" you'll never know if the others are any usefull. Also the idle time of 5s is too long. To make this skill competetive:
   1. Add an aura around the caster that heals allies within it. It should be a very small heal but noticeable.
   2. Stay with the fireballs all 5 seconds. But if the target is at full health instead of wasting it apply a shield for half the amount.
   3. While shielded AND within the aura targets get a benefit like increased ressource regen + immunity to fear (if possible) or something similar.
      I like the idea that the presence of a dragon alone let his allies fight harder and ignore more wounds since they have such a mighty beast by their side, feeling his warming aura beneath them. Would love an effect like an actual (dragon) battle roar when activating this like letting a loud scream out to the sky while flapping my wings
   Side note: This kind of change should also be done for the other morph.
   
   
4. Magma Shell
   I don't really know why I keep trying it (and I will ruin it with the next chapter anyway) but Magma Shell is impressively underwhelming. Sure, it's mainly for tanks but most tanks I see prefer corrosive armor. The problem for the magma shell is barrier. Simple as that. A little example:
   Normal DDs Health: ~18k (or even less)
   Magma shell shield: ~20k (or even less)
   Barrier shield: ~34k+
   
   Barrier also refunds you some magicka and ult power for the same costs, a bigger range and stronger shield. Yeah, i may take damn reduced damage but as a dk-heal I don't care that much about myself. I can stand most encounters where other heals meet the floor without that. So there should be something to improve magma shells shields. Sadly, I don't have an idea for that to be honest.
   
   
5. Dragon Leap
   "Yeah, should have a magicka morph, next." No, this one has potential. I sadly don't remember where I found this awesome idea or who wrote it but I would like to suggest it here.
   
   What if dragon leap would get a morph that is different based on your equipped weapon? . Example:
   
   1H/S: Charge (with aoe at the end) + taunt + shield
   2H: AOE-Charge with huge damage and Aoe(poison?)-stomp at the end (like npc charge but a dragon version )
   Bow: Spit an AOE-Poison projectile
   Destro: Spit a very strong fireprojectile with fire dot (single target!)
   Resto: Spit up to 6 fireballs to heal friendly targets. Apply shielding if at full health + some buff (I want the bogdan animation for that^^)
   
   Dragons know many ways of combat and this ult could (and imo should) reflect that. You could rename it to "Draconic Combat:<Specific Ultname for slotted weapon>" like "Draconic Combat: Furious Charge"
   Maybe needs some tweaking and stuff but seems good for me. Either you are happy with just jumping and train that (reflects lower cost and more damage) or you train more combat arts and become a versatile nightmare. Interesting and usefull ult if done right.
   
   
6. Igneous Weapons
   While I was one of the people that wanted to see this as a buff again I have a problem with the current implementation. It's nearly useless. While it's nice that I can buff my whole group with the damage buffs it's a fact that any decent DD won't let anyone else handle that. So I could buff it my tank but a damage buff to a tank is like giving a snail a gun. Or even worse, they are also DK and buff molten armaments so I would override their heavy attacks bonus. So...
   1. Remove Major Brutality
   2. Add FIX numbers of increased spell and weapon damage (like SPC) OR
   3. Add bonus fire and bonus physical damage scaling from the power of the affected TARGET.
      I mean we talk about burning, stone-clad weapons. Would be logical to add those damage types. Why two damage types? Well, fire scales with magicka of the buffed person and physical with stamina. Easy as that. Numbers and scaling must be high enough to compete against the SPC idea
   
   
7. Cinderstorm
   The last point on my list is Ash cloud or to be more precise the cinderstorm morph since this seems to be underused from what I've heard/read. This is also more wish than feedback . But: PLEASE ZOS, remove this morph and replace it with the old "everyone in gains major evasion" (where everyone is actually 6 allies as usual but still^^). Remove the ground cast and let it be an aura around the DK that he can carry around. Let it be expensive, since (tbh) this is really strong but reimplement this. I want that major evasion on my group .

Well that was a lot of typing. If you've done it this far please let me know what you think Remember to stay constructive please. If you find any typos feel free to keep them.
@ZOS_GinaBruno, could you please pass this to the DK-Team or/and @Wrobel? That would be great

MaxwellC

@Zakor
Igneous weapons: Umm no you have molten armaments major brutality needs to stay as we stam DKs use this skill too for our trial mates and for ourselves. I'd rather not have to rely on major brutality potions,or the DW skill throwing dagger in order to get my 20% in PvE.

Cauterize: Why not have cauterize become a location target ability like heal springs but when you're in the location you'll heal + enemies that are in that ability will have their health stolen and given to you or your allies (must be in a certain range or inside of the heal for more effectiveness).

Zakor

As stam Dk you most likely wield 2H weapons so you get the same buff from momentum + healing. Most other stam classes get this buff also from somewhere. I would be fine with changing the molten armaments morph too but one of both HAS to be changed since in the current state the ability is far too weak. Since there are many sources for major brutality (even a set now) I think thats the better way to go + you would still gain damage from this morph, not in % maybe but still.

About Cauterize:
I've though long about this ability and came to the point where we have too many ground casts already. With springs, combat prayer, my proposed change to obsidian shard... I thought it would be nice to have some kind of "passive" effect, fire and forget about it while noticing it when it's not running.
Furthermore, I like the aura idea cause I can influence it with my movement. If my group moves on I just have to follow to get them back to healing range. It's not "wasted". I've also thought about that vampiric part you suggest but decided against it since it don't really fits into the dragon knight in my opinion. Would be better for a nightblade

Silver_Strider

Honestly speaking, the change to Obsidian Shield isn't that bad. You need to spam the ability anyways for the Major Mending buff, which only last 6 seconds also, so the change doesn't really affect you all that much. Sure, the extra duration on DPS was nice but the Major Mending Buff still only lasted 6 seconds and you'd want that buff up just so you could effectively heal the Tank better so you'd used Obsidian Shield early anyways making the extra time on the DPS obsolete anyways.

Cauterize should heal the caster as well as 1 additional person (Every class has 1 ability that can heal 2 people except DK. Sorcs have Twilight, Templars have BoL and NBs have Funnel.) It should also fire off heals every 3 seconds instead of 5 to actually justify using it.

Zakor

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Honestly speaking, the change to Obsidian Shield isn't that bad. You need to spam the ability anyways for the Major Mending buff, which only last 6 seconds also, so the change doesn't really affect you all that much. Sure, the extra duration on DPS was nice but the Major Mending Buff still only lasted 6 seconds and you'd want that buff up just so you could effectively heal the Tank better so you'd used Obsidian Shield early anyways making the extra time on the DPS obsolete anyways.

As already stated: You don't have to heal shielded allies. If they are still shielded I don't need that major mending also. So it IS affecting me that much.
Normal scenario:
Casting Igneous Shield:
Shields: me around 8k, all others around 4k.
Tanks shield is almost instantly depleted. Not that much of a deal since the tank can stand damage well.
But for a DD it's quite a different having 16k or around 20k LP (little less since no armor on shields).

Old scenario: DDs are shielded, tank needs a bit healing. Only big (undodged) aoe deplete groups shield. Low cost.
New scenario: Shield is gone after 6 seconds, DDs need strong healing (provided through major mending of IS) in case of big aoe or shield recast. High cost.

I don't know about you but I noticed this increase in costs and started to use my shield only to gain major mending when it's REALLY needed which is sad since I understand a DK-Heal as a shield and protection healer. Just think about it: They cut the duration to less than a third of what it was for the same costs. So I have to cast it 3 times to gain the same duration of shield and safety than before which is 3 times the costs -> Emergency tool for major mending, not even for the shield since it's damn weak.

infraction2008b16_ESO

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Zakor
Igneous weapons: Umm no you have molten armaments major brutality needs to stay as we stam DKs use this skill too for our trial mates and for ourselves. I'd rather not have to rely on major brutality potions,or the DW skill throwing dagger in order to get my 20% in PvE.

I feel the issue with both morphs is that the original ability molten weapons is actually intended for magicka builds, magicka builds get their spell damage buff regardless which choice they make where as stamina builds have to choose between morphs. Yes most people min-maxed doing trials are going to use potions anyway for the major damage buffs however not everyone should have to rely on expensive potions for everything and I feel it gives stamina users a difficult choice for morphs where as magicka users have the obvious one due to igneous weapons doing nothing new for them and molten armaments providing both major sorcery and heavy attack buffs.

I feel they really need to return the heavy attack buff as the baseline ability, and have one morph provide both major brutality and sorcery on top of that and the other could be like a weaker form of siphoning strikes providing a small magicka + stamina return on top the HA buff.

That would give people the choice between more resources vs free weapon/spell damage buffs while at the same time not being useless in certain scenarios.

Zakor

infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Zakor
Igneous weapons: Umm no you have molten armaments major brutality needs to stay as we stam DKs use this skill too for our trial mates and for ourselves. I'd rather not have to rely on major brutality potions,or the DW skill throwing dagger in order to get my 20% in PvE.

I feel the issue with both morphs is that the original ability molten weapons is actually intended for magicka builds, magicka builds get their spell damage buff regardless which choice they make where as stamina builds have to choose between morphs. Yes most people min-maxed doing trials are going to use potions anyway for the major damage buffs however not everyone should have to rely on expensive potions for everything and I feel it gives stamina users a difficult choice for morphs where as magicka users have the obvious one due to igneous weapons doing nothing new for them and molten armaments providing both major sorcery and heavy attack buffs.

I feel they really need to return the heavy attack buff as the baseline ability, and have one morph provide both major brutality and sorcery on top of that and the other could be like a weaker form of siphoning strikes providing a small magicka + stamina return on top the HA buff.

That would give people the choice between more resources vs free weapon/spell damage buffs while at the same time not being useless in certain scenarios.

The point I wanted to make and you two both miss is that it should support the GROUP not only you. In the early state of the game this ability just added flame damge or increased critchance for everyone. THAT's what I'm talking about, a nice buff for the group.

Silver_Strider

Zakor wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Honestly speaking, the change to Obsidian Shield isn't that bad. You need to spam the ability anyways for the Major Mending buff, which only last 6 seconds also, so the change doesn't really affect you all that much. Sure, the extra duration on DPS was nice but the Major Mending Buff still only lasted 6 seconds and you'd want that buff up just so you could effectively heal the Tank better so you'd used Obsidian Shield early anyways making the extra time on the DPS obsolete anyways.

As already stated: You don't have to heal shielded allies. If they are still shielded I don't need that major mending also. So it IS affecting me that much.
Normal scenario:
Casting Igneous Shield:
Shields: me around 8k, all others around 4k.
Tanks shield is almost instantly depleted. Not that much of a deal since the tank can stand damage well.
But for a DD it's quite a different having 16k or around 20k LP (little less since no armor on shields).

Old scenario: DDs are shielded, tank needs a bit healing. Only big (undodged) aoe deplete groups shield. Low cost.
New scenario: Shield is gone after 6 seconds, DDs need strong healing (provided through major mending of IS) in case of big aoe or shield recast. High cost.

I don't know about you but I noticed this increase in costs and started to use my shield only to gain major mending when it's REALLY needed which is sad since I understand a DK-Heal as a shield and protection healer. Just think about it: They cut the duration to less than a third of what it was for the same costs. So I have to cast it 3 times to gain the same duration of shield and safety than before which is 3 times the costs -> Emergency tool for major mending, not even for the shield since it's damn weak.

The cost increase you're feeling is more likely due to the increase of cost across the board ZOS did than the nerf to the duration of Igneous Shield. As for your scenario, that can be avoided by preemptive use of IS before the mechanic so it would be the same situation as prior to the nerf as the shield would be gone after the 1st hit anyway, so that sounds like an adaptability issue more than anything.

Zakor

I know how to use my IS, thanks. The point is that the "old" way was also preemptive, but much earlier. I could use the shield to catch the next big hit or anything that happens on the way to it. Whatever, trust me that it's nothing like an "adaptability issue". In case you don't know, they also cut the major mending with the duration to 6 from 8 secs.

Cinbri

WE have One Tamriel to go anywhere you want. Next update should allow us to do anything you want with any class.

Armitas

I have been day dreaming about that change to shard for a while now. I really hope it comes through.

MaxwellC

@Zakor
Regardless Igneous weapons provides exactly what we need and no when it comes to PvE every Stam DK that's going for max damage will rock Dual wield + bow. Igneous weapons provides a lot of support in the sense that if you run it, you and your allies receive the buff which means they do not have to use a buff skill as you will be consistently using it. This skill is fine I think Molten armament should just go back to being a magicka execute that synergizes with flame abilities (When target is below threshold health flame abilities do 50% more damage).

Zakor

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Zakor
Regardless Igneous weapons provides exactly what we need and no when it comes to PvE every Stam DK that's going for max damage will rock Dual wield + bow. Igneous weapons provides a lot of support in the sense that if you run it, you and your allies receive the buff which means they do not have to use a buff skill as you will be consistently using it. This skill is fine I think Molten armament should just go back to being a magicka execute that synergizes with flame abilities (When target is below threshold health flame abilities do 50% more damage).

Your thinking is correct in my opinion but you make one elemental mistake. While I see why stamDks need the skill it's still useless for the group as of:

While it's nice that I can buff my whole group with the damage buffs it's a fact that any decent DD won't let anyone else handle that.

A few DDs may say ok, buff me but the good DDs won't rely on someone else.

My wish is that this skill and both morphs return to being a (very usefull) groupbuff and in my opinion they are not right now.

Would you be ok with this change:
Add the major Brut to the base skill (not any morphs) and then change igneous weapons to additionally provide more FIX damage to the group in any way (SPC like, bonus fire and physical damage, we..) while molten armament stays the way it is. Maybe add stronger ressource recovery to full heavy attacks to balance a bit. Maybe add something to prevent/punish purging Dk dots for pvp since they really need it.