Group Finder penalty

grom1024

Group Finder Tool penalty is currently hurting wrong people. You do not need to do something to get it. You get it when you kicked, when someone disbands group before you even have entered dungeon, and in number of other cases. So what community

idk

Penalty should apply only to those who voluntary leave the group or disband group

Only the person who took the action should get the penalty. Anyone who disbands or quits gets the lockout and no one else.

Additionally, we should have a checkbox for joining in progress groups or not.

With this the undaunted pledges should automatically update to the point an in progress groups is at. This would make it easier for a group to get a replacement when the dungeon is the pledge.

These are fundamental aspects of GFs I have seen in other games that help greatly.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

wayfarerx

Penalty should apply only to those who voluntary leave the group or disband group

So a little story about the group finder penalty.

I'm on my EP stamsorc, looking to DPS the silver pledge. I open up the grouping tool, pick my dungeon, join the queue and BOOM a group pops instantly. Before I can even switch to the tab an check out my group, however, we get disbanded. "Darnit, the auto-disband bug," I think as I look at my fresh 15 minute timer.

Okay, zone chat it is.

[me]: DPS LFG silver.
... 10 minutes later ...
[me]: DPS LFG silver.
[some guy] has invited you to a group.
[me]: Hello
[some guy]: Hey do you have a timer?
[me]: Yeah it just has a couple of minutes though.
[some guy]: We can't port into the dungeon.
[me]: Yeah, but we're all over cp 160 and we're in Deshaan, we can just walk over there.
[some guy]: But we can't find a replacement if we need one.
[me]: But the timer is almost up we should be fine.
[some guy]: How much time is left?
[me]: 3 minutes
You have been kicked from the group.
[me]: OMG are you serious?

The struggle is real.

WalksonGraves

Penalty should be completely abolished

The timer is a huge mistake and should be removed. Since you can't agree to joining a party you often get dropped into someone else's failed run. Yesterday I got put in Mazzatun with a single lvl 24. Everyone who joined his group and left got penalized and he just kept sitting there like a 15 minute trap in the que.

idk

Penalty should apply only to those who voluntary leave the group or disband group

WalksonGraves wrote: »

The timer is a huge mistake and should be removed. Since you can't agree to joining a party you often get dropped into someone else's failed run. Yesterday I got put in Mazzatun with a single lvl 24. Everyone who joined his group and left got penalized and he just kept sitting there like a 15 minute trap in the que.

While I disagree about removing the penalty from anyone who took action voluntarily, part of the problem of kicking players and disbanding a group would be resolved by seeing the group and choosing to accept being in the group. If a member declined (did not accept the GF queue pop) they would not have a penalty.

But someone who chooses to leave after accepting should be penalized. Additionally, no one should have the ability to disband a group formed via GF.

EleonoraCrendraven

Penalty should apply only to those who voluntary leave the group or disband group

Very good idea. Waiting for 15mins just because someone suddenly had other ideas and disbanded the group is
Especially if you are not a tank or healer but a DD. That's searching for maaaaany minutes again AFTER waiting 15 minutes to even be able to start searching for a group.

wayfarerx

Penalty should apply only to those who voluntary leave the group or disband group

WalksonGraves wrote: »

The timer is a huge mistake and should be removed. Since you can't agree to joining a party you often get dropped into someone else's failed run. Yesterday I got put in Mazzatun with a single lvl 24. Everyone who joined his group and left got penalized and he just kept sitting there like a 15 minute trap in the que.

There's something about the idea of a level 24, sitting in the RoM queue while insecure people at level cap continuously give themselves the 15 minute penalty... hmmm. While the queue timer needs some work, in this instance I think it's working as designed

Cryptical

Other (add comment please)

Xbox, you can't disband a group that the activity finder created. You can vote to kick someone, but need two other people to assent.

I would think that the console is behind the pc, so I would think that the pc version also is unable to disband such a group.

TheAngelofDeath99

Penalty should apply only to those who voluntary leave the group or disband group

Penalty should stay as it is now??? Please explain your reasoning @Lord_Dexter @susmitds @C0wrex

C0wrex

Penalty should stay as it is now

Strangely enough, I never did get any issues with the group finder even when the group's been disbanded or I've been kicked. Same applies to the people I play with in Honour guild (If anyone's heard of it).

That doesn't mean I don't care about others' current plight though, as I can understand how much of a pain the current system will leave innocent ones in the wrong

In any case though, even if I understand it, it would honestly suit me better if I got to experience it first hand to know how terrible it is Till then, I'll remain with my stand, but I won't mind being corrected

@TheAngelofDeath99

Crowgnosis

Penalty should apply only to those who voluntary leave the group or disband group

I agree with this completely. There have been times I have accepted my group invite only to have the leader disband before I can even teleport. And I get the penalty? Doesn't seem right.

Agalloch

Penalty should apply only to those who voluntary leave the group or disband group

After the yesterday 's maintenance I couldn't do random activity finder . It seemed is working..but after the group was formed ..in the same time was disbanded ..by the game )

It happened 3 times ..and after that I gave up...15 min is too much cooldown.

Khenarthi

Penalty should apply only to those who voluntary leave the group or disband group

WalksonGraves wrote: »

The timer is a huge mistake and should be removed. Since you can't agree to joining a party you often get dropped into someone else's failed run. Yesterday I got put in Mazzatun with a single lvl 24. Everyone who joined his group and left got penalized and he just kept sitting there like a 15 minute trap in the que.

I ran Mazzatun (as a CP-cap NB tank) with random players in levels 10-30. Totally doable, normal difficulty only takes being patient and explaining the mechanics.

Asardes

Penalty should apply only to those who voluntary leave the group or disband group

Sometimes I had the groups disband themselves, a couple of times at the end boss in a dungeon. Even groups that were manually made by inviting people in them. Saw this bug repeatedly in Direfrost Keep - when the group reached Droda we simply got kicked from dungeon with no explanation; the group was made in tool. Last time it happened to me in Veteran Cradle of Shadows a couple of weeks when it was for gold - we were fighting Velidreth and were near the execute phase then bam! We did not even notice the timer because the fight was really intense and it went pretty quickly, much shorter than the teleport timer you get when you leave a group on your own accord. One of the player had DC issues shortly before the group got kicked and told us he had the group disband bug earlier. The group was formed in guild chat but we queued in tool.

Maybe there is something implemented in the server that activates when there are too many instances of the same dungeon and/or people running in them have high latency?

Curragraigue

Cryptical wrote: »

Xbox, you can't disband a group that the activity finder created. You can vote to kick someone, but need two other people to assent.

I would think that the console is behind the pc, so I would think that the pc version also is unable to disband such a group.

You can disband on console. If you form the group yourself then use group finder to port in the crown can disband. If you just use group finder then as you say the group has to agree to kick a person.

akl77

Penalty should be completely abolished

WalksonGraves wrote: »

The timer is a huge mistake and should be removed. Since you can't agree to joining a party you often get dropped into someone else's failed run. Yesterday I got put in Mazzatun with a single lvl 24. Everyone who joined his group and left got penalized and he just kept sitting there like a 15 minute trap in the que.

Those low level people just want high CP players to carry them, but Vet dungeon like Mazazzun requires everybody to do their job top level, or it's just hopeless.

So abolish the timer, be fair to everyone.

Asardes

Penalty should apply only to those who voluntary leave the group or disband group

Can't carry people that don't know and don't want to learn the mechanics trough DLC dungeons in veteran mode. It's a wipe if one fails to throw the flesh grenades, pick the right time to go in portals, take the pinion, focus on storm atronach, make the turtle charge the mage, take the spice to the spring, destroy totem/statue ASAP, gap-close/range interrupt the teleporting daedra boss and get out of the red, break invulnerability/CC by killing/interrupting adds, navigate the labyrinth and avoid the spike. Those things are in place exactly to make the group work together, root out noobs or people who lack the mental capacity to follow the mechanics. Dumb people fail at whatever is not a DPS race, no matter how many CP they have.

altemriel

Penalty should apply only to those who voluntary leave the group or disband group

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Only the person who took the action should get the penalty. Anyone who disbands or quits gets the lockout and no one else.

Additionally, we should have a checkbox for joining in progress groups or not.

With this the undaunted pledges should automatically update to the point an in progress groups is at. This would make it easier for a group to get a replacement when the dungeon is the pledge.

These are fundamental aspects of GFs I have seen in other games that help greatly.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

exactly this!!!!

akl77

Penalty should be completely abolished

It's just bad dungeon design, not the players fault, and yet ZOS punish game players. ZOS got it wrong, again.

If there's no stupid machanics, nobody will have to leave.

Asardes

Penalty should apply only to those who voluntary leave the group or disband group

DSP races are bad dungeon design
Mechanics that force people to actually coordinate to beat the dungeon are good dungeon design.

SotH is a step in the right direction because it has exactly such mechanics: invulnerability phases on bosses, CC on players, labyrinth, one-shot mechanics that need interrupt or avoidance
Revamping old dungeons by simply adding more health to mobs and bosses and calling it "hard mode" is not - it's just plain laziness.

Slurg

Other (add comment please)

The guy who I initiated a vote to kick from a pug recently totally deserved the penalty. The group was wiping on the first boss because he queued as a healer, and one of the DPS's pointed out he was not actually healing anyone. Our "healer" said he was really "more of a DPS" who just wanted to get in a group faster. What he did penalized the whole group by wasting our time.

However, if there was some kind of check in place to make sure that people who queue up as healers actually have the capability to, you know, heal people, none of that would have been necessary.

On the other side, I know there are a ton of scenarios where people are getting penalized because of nothing they did wrong. I did not vote to kick our replacement healer who was level 17 - we actually finished the dungeon. I know a lot of people would have kicked him for his level, though. And he wouldn't have deserved the penalty at all.

Perhaps another partial solution would be to allow players to choose what level of players they are willing to group with for certain content. Some dungeons are fine to be grouped with a level 17. Others may not be.

What's the right solution? I don't know. But there has got to be a better way to solve the problem than the current system that causes a lot of collateral damage.

raidentenshu_ESO

Penalty should be completely abolished

It should be completely removed.

The group finder does not give us the opportunity to select a certain level range of players to play with. No. I'm not trying to be an elitest, but theirs certain dungeons that require a big CP and DPS. By the group finder selecting low level CP when putting us in dungeons such as vICP or vWGT is just ridiculous. Why should I be punished for leaving the group when I know for sure that were not going to succeed? I'm saving myself the grief and time, not to mention repair bills on my armor by leaving.

kargen27

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

The timer is a huge mistake and should be removed. Since you can't agree to joining a party you often get dropped into someone else's failed run. Yesterday I got put in Mazzatun with a single lvl 24. Everyone who joined his group and left got penalized and he just kept sitting there like a 15 minute trap in the que.

While I disagree about removing the penalty from anyone who took action voluntarily, part of the problem of kicking players and disbanding a group would be resolved by seeing the group and choosing to accept being in the group. If a member declined (did not accept the GF queue pop) they would not have a penalty.

But someone who chooses to leave after accepting should be penalized. Additionally, no one should have the ability to disband a group formed via GF.

I think being able to see the group then decide to join or not is a very bad idea especially for normal level dungeons or silver pledges. People will just cherry pick a group and new players that need to learn the mechanics by running these dungeons will find it very hard to get into a group. A normal run you should expect players that haven't figured everything out yet. Part of the problem is people want to run with vet players but won't step up and run the vet dungeons.

MaxwellC

Penalty should be completely abolished

I think the timer should be removed completely. No one wants to attempt the first boss 4 times without even passing it due to players who joined via group finder not being gear ready to complete the dungeon. I had one of those moments with a random group finder group with all below 160 and I had to tell the tank you do not need to use a bow on your other bar along with poison injection because he's a tank not a DPS.
Literally walked them through ICP wiped on the first boss 3 times the 2nd boss like 4 times 3rd twice, 4th once, 5th (role boss i.e. templar,etc) 5 times, and last boss over 10 times.

There needs to be no group penalty period

wolfydog

Yeah the penalty can be used to troll people. I ve joined groups via group finder more then once where the leader will instantly disband the group thus giving everyone the penalty. As others have said, only the person taking the action should be effected.

wayfarerx

Penalty should apply only to those who voluntary leave the group or disband group

wayfarerx wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

The timer is a huge mistake and should be removed. Since you can't agree to joining a party you often get dropped into someone else's failed run. Yesterday I got put in Mazzatun with a single lvl 24. Everyone who joined his group and left got penalized and he just kept sitting there like a 15 minute trap in the que.

There's something about the idea of a level 24, sitting in the RoM queue while insecure people at level cap continuously give themselves the 15 minute penalty... hmmm. While the queue timer needs some work, in this instance I think it's working as designed

I wanted to follow up on this after an experience I had this weekend. Friday night, RoM is the gold pledge. I'm waiting on some friends to run some dungeons with so I decide to pug normal RoM for the silver key on one of my healers. I get a group quickly: me healing, @AegisWolf tanking, a level 21 and a level 14 on DPS.

To be fair, I've known Wolf for awhile, we run dungeons and trials, he's got plenty of CP and we know how to work an instance together. On the other hand, one of the DPS didn't even have weapon swap unlocked yet, so there's that. However we are not fearful, wilting lilies so off to slaughter schizophrenic Saxhleel we go.

Outside of pre-made groups of friends and guildies this was one of the easiest nRoM runs I've done.

The DPS did really great. I don't know what kind of damage Wolf pulls while tanking, but I was just grinding up undaunted ranks on my 3rd-string backbench healer that pulls maybe 5k on a good fight. We wiped once on Xal-Nur and once during the pinwheel phase on the Tree-Minder. The DPS needed a tiny bit of coaching because they admitted to never getting past Chudan before, but a quick explanation of the mechanics and victory was ours.

So please, stop with all this "I won't run normal DLC dungeons with people under 50" nonsense. That level 24 in the nRoM queue might just be waiting to pull awesome DPS for your group if you would only give him a chance. The way the timer works now there's basically no downside to at least giving them 15 minutes to show you what they can bring to the table.

dsalter

Penalty should apply only to those who voluntary leave the group or disband group

wayfarerx wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

The timer is a huge mistake and should be removed. Since you can't agree to joining a party you often get dropped into someone else's failed run. Yesterday I got put in Mazzatun with a single lvl 24. Everyone who joined his group and left got penalized and he just kept sitting there like a 15 minute trap in the que.

There's something about the idea of a level 24, sitting in the RoM queue while insecure people at level cap continuously give themselves the 15 minute penalty... hmmm. While the queue timer needs some work, in this instance I think it's working as designed

I wanted to follow up on this after an experience I had this weekend. Friday night, RoM is the gold pledge. I'm waiting on some friends to run some dungeons with so I decide to pug normal RoM for the silver key on one of my healers. I get a group quickly: me healing, @AegisWolf tanking, a level 21 and a level 14 on DPS.

To be fair, I've known Wolf for awhile, we run dungeons and trials, he's got plenty of CP and we know how to work an instance together. On the other hand, one of the DPS didn't even have weapon swap unlocked yet, so there's that. However we are not fearful, wilting lilies so off to slaughter schizophrenic Saxhleel we go.

Outside of pre-made groups of friends and guildies this was one of the easiest nRoM runs I've done.

The DPS did really great. I don't know what kind of damage Wolf pulls while tanking, but I was just grinding up undaunted ranks on my 3rd-string backbench healer that pulls maybe 5k on a good fight. We wiped once on Xal-Nur and once during the pinwheel phase on the Tree-Minder. The DPS needed a tiny bit of coaching because they admitted to never getting past Chudan before, but a quick explanation of the mechanics and victory was ours.

So please, stop with all this "I won't run normal DLC dungeons with people under 50" nonsense. That level 24 in the nRoM queue might just be waiting to pull awesome DPS for your group if you would only give him a chance. The way the timer works now there's basically no downside to at least giving them 15 minutes to show you what they can bring to the table.

i am usually the highest dps'er in the group finder on any of my alts, CP is a real game changer.

nine9six

Penalty should apply only to those who voluntary leave the group or disband group

It pains me to have to vote on something so obvious.

Group vote to Disband results in no penalties. Someone leaving on the fly gets penalized.

HeroOfNone

Other (add comment please)

If it's in the first 2 minutes of a group bring formed, no one has defeated the first boss, and or you haven't entered the dungeon, then group finder penalties shouldn't apply.

Also you should get notifications on who disband a party in chat. I can see thanks to stream replay and I can report a lot of the folks abusing the system, but many others can't.

Lucius_Aelius

Penalty should apply only to those who voluntary leave the group or disband group

I don't understand why anyone would leave a normal dungeon for low levels being there, that's who it's designed for, and if you leave you deserve the penalty. Normal Dungeons have mechanics you need to know but they're all doable as a low level (I think it's ridiculous though that the hardest Dungeons unlock first, they should be left to the 30-40's range to unlock, give players a chance to learn the game before throwing them headlong into the fire).

As for Vet Dungeons, most are fine with lower levels, but some with DPS checks and whatnot are a nightmare with people that aren't fully leveled and geared up, and I agree that it's stupid to even have the option for people to be put in those dungeons who can't possibly contribute as they should and can only beat it by being carried. Knowledge of mechanics only gets you so far, unless you get a top 1% DPS player in certain dungeons to carry the group then lower levels don't stand a chance and there's no point in even trying.

And that's not necessarily just because of the Dungeon, but because of Pledges as well, the Gold Keys often require reading a book that makes it a lot harder and you shouldn't be putting players in the position of kicking a low level or not getting their Gold Key, that's not fair or right for anyone. So either eliminate DPS checks and make things happen based on the boss's HP instead of a Timer, or just stop putting players who don't have what it takes in those Dungeons and forcing the group to kick them to get their Gold Key.

Leaving the group should always result in the penalty, but players who lack the DPS for certain fights should absolutely not be put in those fights to begin with so leaving would in that case always deserve the penalty, because some people leave Dungeons or kick low levels despite that Dungeon being easy and those people deserve to be penalized for it.

I think there should be a test of some kind that players have to engage in before being allowed into a Dungeon in any given role, where you can't unlock that role for any Dungeon without getting a good enough score, and the hardest Dungeons would have the highest scores that would bar entry to anyone unable to achieve that score in any given role. If you're a DPS that's an easy test, just gauge the DPS of the player and determine the minimum DPS to pass the DPS checks of that Dungeon, if you can't cut it you don't unlock that role in that Dungeon. Other roles would be harder to design a test for but I can imagine it being done, just give the player NPC's to protect/heal and gauge the person's score on how many NPC's get killed.

That way players would stop being put into situations they can't handle and would have to learn how to do their role properly before trying a dungeon, and would also assure their teammates that they have a basic knowledge and ability to do their role. Everybody wins, and while I imagine it would take a lot of work for ZOS to implement it I believe it could potentially help a lot. Also of course throw in some tutorials that give advice to players who need it, explaining that you really need to have some basics covered to do their role properly and telling people what they need (like telling a DPS that they need at least one good basic damage attack for both single target and AoE as well as an Execute to do well).

SquareSausage

Penalty should apply only to those who voluntary leave the group or disband group

Agreed, the penalty system needs to be a bit smarter and so does the grouping tool too.

Especially on pledges when you need a replacement and people see you have started and leave the group or people leaving group mid way dungeon as they have already completed a half clear as they joined an existing group prior.

As mentioned some dungeons need a higher level character to play them and putting low level with no cp into example ICP RoM and WGT is not usually doable. As for characters sub 50 with existing CP then it is totally doable but you cant see if they have CP or not and generally get kicked from groups.

Its annoying to know end if you join a group, eat a food buff for example then get kicked for no apparent reason and then face a penalty