Lessons from the reunion raid

_Chaos

Saturday was a blast, but it sucked in terms of zergy-ness. We'd go somewhere to get away and within a minute the DC horde was right there behind us. Even when skipping Roe to bridge farm, Saramis decided to bring a full raid because ??? logic.

T'was a shame it was such a gong show with regards to numbers, but it was nice to see some old familiar names on the battlefield.
Hope we can do this again with more even fights!

Asgari

Each faction stacks just as many as the others. It is just how Cyro PVP is. Luckily with dueling coming out, i can just duel pve bads all day long and feel good about myself!

Crown

_Chaos wrote: »

Saramis decided to bring a full raid because ???

@_Chaos It's nobody's fault.. I've been in the position many a time where I wanted to cap a group at 12, the just one more person showed up and being that we were all friends in addition to guildies it's tough to say no.. Until there's a full group. At the same time you're fighting other full groups - if not multiple full groups, so it's reasonable to grow up to 24. Then there's the group of 6 opponents who try to gank your back line, and you roll over them all. They then complain about being 6 vs 24, but neglect to take into account that THEY attacked YOU and only complain when they lost. Had they left your back line or healers alone, you wouldn't have initiated trample damage. Then there's that one guy who's really irritating and loses his head on stream whenever he's killed. You all open his stream just to watch as you chase him across half the map and make a sport of it, "every gives their next reward mail contents to the person who gets the killing blow"! Which is when all your healer templars start spamming raidant oppression, because they're hoping one of the stam players will get him low enough that they're get the killing blow - at which point the streamer starts going mental about the "raidant spammers". A good time is had by all - except that guy we all dislike, but we don't care much about him anyway.

That's why groups grow to 24.

Takes-No-Prisoner

Crown wrote: »

AD in both Trueflame and Azuras are mostly disorganised with very few solid groups. Nobody wants to listen to reason, and they can't seem to organise well enough to take a keep without just swarming it. Props to Fantasia and DK for trying to coordinate in zone. We probably spent about 1/3 of our time wondering at the lack of strategy and organisation in our own faction.

AD on PS4 suffers from this. You should see prime time on our 'Trueflame' campaign. AD usually has 2 bars. There is a long drawn out and un interesting story to that, but basically any good to moderately decent player left the campaign. Short answer to that; the more experienced players just gave up-- for seemingly a lot of the same reasons as what you saw in DC and in EP. Heavy armor and Numbers.

Though honestly speaking, AD on PC are still in better shape then the mess I have seen on PS4. From when I logged on and saw the newbies just seemed to ride the coattails of whatever the more senior players had to say.

Ghost-Shot

Manoekin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

In short, let's not pretend ESO was once something it was not. I think if it was more tolerable or enjoyable back in the day, that was because you had more patience, hadn't lost hope, or just had more friends online that you looked forward to playing with

@Joy_Division You know.. back then I had more patience, hadn't lost hope, and had a lot more friends online that I looked forward to playing with..

I've said a few times that I miss the social aspect of the game more than the game itself..

This is always the case with MMOs. The tragedy here is there really isn't anywhere to go, no new game to bring your team to.

Give Ghost some company! And me.

You better not be in WoW

You should see my really cute demon hunter honestly. It has great hair and I heard you know a thing or two about that.

[Edited out reference to removed content]

Just about to 107 on my Horde demon hunter, I really should have just leveled that from the start instead of my allience warrior, that *** is too fun!

Drummerx04

NACtron wrote: »

Bummed Pact Militia missed the chance to fight you guys! I wasn't on last night and we didn't get a raid up until around 11:00pm EST


In terms of the State of ESO PvP I agree with most of what has been said. I wish ultra competitive guilds like Crown's and VE were still around to challenge the current guilds to improve and refine. If you want to create a competitive environment you have to force the player base to have to play effectively or die. The less organized guilds the worse the player base will get.

The biggest reason PM is at all competitive is because I took our pugs and our squishies right into the fight against DC VE at the beginning of this year. We wiped hard over and over but eventually we started learning. It got our wheels turning we started thinking about how to improve and compete. Even if we never able to compete with them at the time we are far better today cause of it. It showed us the need to improve and get organized. I think each guild needs an opposing guild like that to force them to step up their game.

Well for what it's worth, Blood of Daggerfall used to regularly run over Pact Militia as well, but I've noticed you guys aren't really easy AP anymore. Your group cohesion is much better, and you've gotten better at having your tanky players protect your squishier players. Certain raid leaders don't want to admit that your guild is effective, but I will, lol.

NACtron

Drummerx04 wrote: »

NACtron wrote: »

Bummed Pact Militia missed the chance to fight you guys! I wasn't on last night and we didn't get a raid up until around 11:00pm EST


In terms of the State of ESO PvP I agree with most of what has been said. I wish ultra competitive guilds like Crown's and VE were still around to challenge the current guilds to improve and refine. If you want to create a competitive environment you have to force the player base to have to play effectively or die. The less organized guilds the worse the player base will get.

The biggest reason PM is at all competitive is because I took our pugs and our squishies right into the fight against DC VE at the beginning of this year. We wiped hard over and over but eventually we started learning. It got our wheels turning we started thinking about how to improve and compete. Even if we never able to compete with them at the time we are far better today cause of it. It showed us the need to improve and get organized. I think each guild needs an opposing guild like that to force them to step up their game.

Well for what it's worth, Blood of Daggerfall used to regularly run over Pact Militia as well, but I've noticed you guys aren't really easy AP anymore. Your group cohesion is much better, and you've gotten better at having your tanky players protect your squishier players. Certain raid leaders don't want to admit that your guild is effective, but I will, lol.

I'm glad some of our regular opponents have noticed our efforts to improve See you in Cyrodiil!

_Crow

One thing that people have to keep in mind about zergs, is that a guild will not stay as a zerg for life. They either break up the raids or the guild dies. I remember when CN used to stack unholy amounts of people into a zerg and now look, I dont see many of their players anymore. I think that might be because of a few reasons but the main one is that a lot of those DC players that ran in the raid went off to other guilds and groups leaving CN in the dust (again not the only reason they are not around a lot anymore). Our guild has already faced that point where either you break up the zerg for most of the night, or the guild will start to lose more of its good players because they dont want to fight in a zerg anymore. No one will probably believe me but pact HAS been splitting its raids up for a good chunk of the nights and hitting both factions at dif locations. Yes, sometimes we stack both raids to hit a keep or defend, but so does every faction at some point, thats just the way the map and PVP works. Here is how it works, new players and or pugs will join a zerg because its the only way they can have a chance against raids like Crown's and VE. At a certain point some of those zerg players will learn enough to go out and join a better group. And then you have the players left over that only play a little bit and either dont want or have time to improve themselves. Those are the players that will eventually stop playing the game altogether or just move on to another zerg when the one they are in implodes. What we did was that we still run a pug raid every once in a while and (estimate 3 times a week) the other days we are running our more hardcore groups in dif places (or sometimes for big pushes the same) all night. That way we are training the new players how to get some of the basics down and then at some point they are able to run in the more hardcore raids effectively. Do you see what I mean? Without zergs, this game would be dead and the player base gone. Zergs are necessary in order for people in them to learn the basics and then go off and join a 1 raid hardcore group, or even start a guild of their own! So while many (and by that I mean few. If "most players" really hated zergs then zergs would not be a thing because they would never be able to get people to join) hate on zergs and say they are ruining the game, they are still a necessary evil in this game. Its just the way this game is and will always be. No streamer or ganker will ever change that. Zergs have been around since beta, and will be around till the the game eventually goes offline.

Minno

_Crow wrote: »

One thing that people have to keep in mind about zergs, is that a guild will not stay as a zerg for life. They either break up the raids or the guild dies. I remember when CN used to stack unholy amounts of people into a zerg and now look, I dont see many of their players anymore. I think that might be because of a few reasons but the main one is that a lot of those DC players that ran in the raid went off to other guilds and groups leaving CN in the dust (again not the only reason they are not around a lot anymore). Our guild has already faced that point where either you break up the zerg for most of the night, or the guild will start to lose more of its good players because they dont want to fight in a zerg anymore. No one will probably believe me but pact HAS been splitting its raids up for a good chunk of the nights and hitting both factions at dif locations. Yes, sometimes we stack both raids to hit a keep or defend, but so does every faction at some point, thats just the way the map and PVP works. Here is how it works, new players and or pugs will join a zerg because its the only way they can have a chance against raids like Crown's and VE. At a certain point some of those zerg players will learn enough to go out and join a better group. And then you have the players left over that only play a little bit and either dont want or have time to improve themselves. Those are the players that will eventually stop playing the game altogether or just move on to another zerg when the one they are in implodes. What we did was that we still run a pug raid every once in a while and (estimate 3 times a week) the other days we are running our more hardcore groups in dif places (or sometimes for big pushes the same) all night. That way we are training the new players how to get some of the basics down and then at some point they are able to run in the more hardcore raids effectively. Do you see what I mean? Without zergs, this game would be dead and the player base gone. Zergs are necessary in order for people in them to learn the basics and then go off and join a 1 raid hardcore group, or even start a guild of their own! So while many (and by that I mean few. If "most players" really hated zergs then zergs would not be a thing because they would never be able to get people to join) hate on zergs and say they are ruining the game, they are still a necessary evil in this game. Its just the way this game is and will always be. No streamer or ganker will ever change that. Zergs have been around since beta, and will be around till the the game eventually goes offline.

That's because CN disbanded. Some of those players are in Skillz or floating around solo. The majority quit for blade and soul following Daniel.

Crown

_Crow wrote: »

Its just the way this game is and will always be. No streamer or ganker will ever change that. Zergs have been around since beta, and will be around till the the game eventually goes offline.

@_Crow Have you noticed that many of the streamers who speak out so strongly against "zerging" themselves run solo or with 2-3 friends in group, though along side or in the middle of zergs? My crew were up at the village north of Bleakers a few days ago in a group of about 10, and we were trampled by about 40 DC. Interestingly, a well known streamer was the one who killed me (on my templar in healer build) - and another healer. We quickly opened his stream to see him ranting about us zerging only to see him in group with one other person and at least a full raid group of DC in the background. I'm told by the friends I was running with that this is a regular occurrence for him.

Anazasi

It's all about the perception. "I'm in a group of 2, no way can i be zerging" of course they are always surfing in a sea of EP, DC, or AD. I wish someone would just accept what world PVP actually means. Just bring more friends to the party that's the only solution. If the server crashes than ZOS needs to fix it.

All of you who want to ridicule this, just remember, in the movie 300, they eventually died to the horde. Yes it was a great fight and they all died with honor, but the outcome will always be the same. I think it's called attrition. Skill as so many players are always stuck on, only exists in the brief seconds you are winning. Unfortunately at the end of the fight its going to be attrition that wins. Welcome to the reality of life in ESO and world PVP A v A v A.

Minno

Anazasi wrote: »

It's all about the perception. "I'm in a group of 2, no way can i be zerging" of course they are always surfing in a sea of EP, DC, or AD. I wish someone would just accept what world PVP actually means. Just bring more friends to the party that's the only solution. If the server crashes than ZOS needs to fix it.

All of you who want to ridicule this, just remember, in the movie 300, they eventually died to the horde. Yes it was a great fight and they all died with honor, but the outcome will always be the same. I think it's called attrition. Skill as so many players are always stuck on, only exists in the brief seconds you are winning. Unfortunately at the end of the fight its going to be attrition that wins. Welcome to the reality of life in ESO and world PVP A v A v A.

And why you coast with a zerg. If you, as a small man crew, can use the zerg as a slingshot, you can be in a better position for defense/offense. You can augment the capability of the pugs, hit reinforcement lines during keep seige, pretend to run with the zerg then run deep for resource recap, etc.

The days of pure "1vx" are dead; unless zos can find a way to balance for both playstyles on both PC and console.

Astanphaeus

Crown wrote: »

_Crow wrote: »

Its just the way this game is and will always be. No streamer or ganker will ever change that. Zergs have been around since beta, and will be around till the the game eventually goes offline.

@_Crow Have you noticed that many of the streamers who speak out so strongly against "zerging" themselves run solo or with 2-3 friends in group, though along side or in the middle of zergs? My crew were up at the village north of Bleakers a few days ago in a group of about 10, and we were trampled by about 40 DC. Interestingly, a well known streamer was the one who killed me (on my templar in healer build) - and another healer. We quickly opened his stream to see him ranting about us zerging only to see him in group with one other person and at least a full raid group of DC in the background. I'm told by the friends I was running with that this is a regular occurrence for him.

Yeah, there is a huge amount of zerg surfers [snip]ing about zergs hypocrisy in this game. They just want to have an excuse for when they die so that their fragile egos don't get bruised.

mchermie

K-Hole best zerg NA

Lava_Croft

@Crown

Satiar wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

In short, let's not pretend ESO was once something it was not. I think if it was more tolerable or enjoyable back in the day, that was because you had more patience, hadn't lost hope, or just had more friends online that you looked forward to playing with

@Joy_Division You know.. back then I had more patience, hadn't lost hope, and had a lot more friends online that I looked forward to playing with..

I've said a few times that I miss the social aspect of the game more than the game itself..

The tragedy here is there really isn't anywhere to go, no new game to bring your team to.

Yes

Baconlad

not sure what time or what day you guys came back to, but may i suggest that you do not play on a friday or saterday night? those nights are horrible for lag, and the zergs seem strongest. also...AD does not care about winning trueflame, they only care about EP NOT winning the campaign. i rarely see Ash/Roe/ nikel, and i'm sure AD rarely see aleswell/bleakers, and DC rarely see alessia/sej/ roe. point being is most of the fighting occers around chal/ BRK/ arrius/ bleakers/ sej....the EP side of the map. and while of course there IS fighting of DC against AD, it is very rarely a raid size element when the fighting does happen. only time i only really see AD fighting DC is when they are both on one of EP's keeps closest to the ring. now i've come up with a few possibilites. AD guild leadership and DC guild leadership are buds/ AD, DC leadership hate EP leadership/ EP as a whole is better, there fore ALWAYS the threat for both factions...(EVEN IF EP IS IN LAST PLACE WITH NO CHANCE OF WINNING CAMP)/ or lastly...AD is just a bunch of dissorganized *** who only fight whoevers attacking them...and lets face it, EP is ALWAYS attacking DC/ AD factions equally...anyway, point being i don't understand AD/DC right now...so come to EP! we're not so bad

IxSTALKERxI

Baconlad wrote: »

also...AD does not care about winning trueflame, they only care about EP NOT winning the campaign. i rarely see Ash/Roe/ nikel, and i'm sure AD rarely see aleswell/bleakers, and DC rarely see alessia/sej/ roe. point being is most of the fighting occers around chal/ BRK/ arrius/ bleakers/ sej....the EP side of the map. and while of course there IS fighting of DC against AD, it is very rarely a raid size element when the fighting does happen. only time i only really see AD fighting DC is when they are both on one of EP's keeps closest to the ring. now i've come up with a few possibilites. AD guild leadership and DC guild leadership are buds/ AD, DC leadership hate EP leadership/ EP as a whole is better, there fore ALWAYS the threat for both factions...(EVEN IF EP IS IN LAST PLACE WITH NO CHANCE OF WINNING CAMP)/ or lastly...AD is just a bunch of dissorganized *** who only fight whoevers attacking them...and lets face it, EP is ALWAYS attacking DC/ AD factions equally...anyway, point being i don't understand AD/DC right now...so come to EP! we're not so bad

It's the final option. EP is on a never ending quest to get to alessia bridge to farm there, and if no one comes they keep on pushing all the way to the front door of alessia or alessia farm etc. AD can't go and push DC without EP taking all of AD's home keeps. If you don't fight someone who is attacking you, then they just take all your keeps... like do you want us to leave all our keeps undefended or something?

Erynyes

sad to hear the result of this reunion leave ya a bad taste, I and my friends would have loved to fight ya back like in the old days, small scale could benefit a lot from the old school boys back

Crown

@Erynyes I've been playing an hour here and there for the past month, and small scale just doesn't work during prime time. Sure - our group of 6 can take a resource and get about 100 kills, but eventually 50+ people show up and... trample damage..



A group of 12+ seems to be necessary these days - and even then when 50+ show up it's really, really tough to come out on top.

JDar

Astanphaeus wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

_Crow wrote: »

Its just the way this game is and will always be. No streamer or ganker will ever change that. Zergs have been around since beta, and will be around till the the game eventually goes offline.

@_Crow Have you noticed that many of the streamers who speak out so strongly against "zerging" themselves run solo or with 2-3 friends in group, though along side or in the middle of zergs? My crew were up at the village north of Bleakers a few days ago in a group of about 10, and we were trampled by about 40 DC. Interestingly, a well known streamer was the one who killed me (on my templar in healer build) - and another healer. We quickly opened his stream to see him ranting about us zerging only to see him in group with one other person and at least a full raid group of DC in the background. I'm told by the friends I was running with that this is a regular occurrence for him.

Yeah, there is a huge amount of zerg surfers [snip]ing about zergs hypocrisy in this game. They just want to have an excuse for when they die so that their fragile egos don't get bruised.

You know the old saying, live by the zerg, die by the zerg

Edit whoops autosave messed me over

Roechacca

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XfmVBmDKLZI

Lava_Croft

This game is pretty much dead for anyone expecting an actual competitive PvP game that is loved and cared for by its developers.

And it still stings.

HoloYoitsu

Lava_Croft wrote: »

This game is pretty much dead for anyone expecting an actual competitive PvP game that is loved and cared for by its developers.

And it still stings.

Confirmed, u are just a 1vX elitist who is salty about the fun simplified zerg meta. You are jelly that you don't have 50+ friends who want to run with you.

Get with the times, the new paradigm isn't "git gud", it's "equip gud" and proc your way to victory.

Lava_Croft

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

This game is pretty much dead for anyone expecting an actual competitive PvP game that is loved and cared for by its developers.

And it still stings.

Confirmed, u are just a 1vX elitist who is salty about the fun simplified zerg meta. You are jelly that you don't have 50+ friends who want to run with you.

Get with the times, the new paradigm isn't "git gud", it's "equip gud" and proc your way to victory.

At this point Skyrim provides more challenge and depth than ESO does, which is a scary thing to think about.