[Lore Discussion] Where did Minotaurs come from and do they belong in Tamriel?

Rosveen

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

VerboseQuips wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

As a roleplayer, it warms the cockles of my heart to see lore discussions in general. Anyway.

The minotaur race is said to be the spawn of Morihaus (Remember that set? Yeah, relevent here.) a Demiprince who was said to be the spawn of Saint Alessia. Or kyne. There are conflicting stories. (Essentially the closest thing there was to the inherent maker of the empire.) Morihaus, or Morihaus-Breath-Of-Kyne is a cultural hero of the imperials and is depicted as either a winged minotaur, or a half mino half human hybrid.

I don't think Morihaus was a Demiprince, he rather seems to be of Aedric origin. Pelinal refers to him as an 'ada' and Morihaus is called a Demigod instead of a Demiprince. But then, in-game and in-character sources are not always reliable.

Fa-Nuit-Hen agrees:

Lord Fa-Nuit-Hen says, “Morihaus! It's long indeed since I thought of him. How we would drink and dice together! As far as I'm concerned, to call him a 'demiprince' is clearly a misnomer. He was a demigod—or so he was termed by the mortals of his time. If you go then, you'll see what I mean."

Also IIRC, Morihaus was Kyne's offspring, and Alessia was his wife/lover.

VerboseQuips wrote: »

4. Does there exist female Minotaurs? How do they mate?

There is actually an existing lore bit for this: link.

...though once thought to be intelligent. They are social creatures, often appearing in groups numbering twenty or more. The largest male dominates this clan structure, and seems to have breeding rights with all females of reproductive age. Younger males will often challenge the older, dominant males in a fight to the death. Their horns locked, the two minotaurs will wrestle until one can no longer continue. This often....

What strikes me as interesting is that that bears a strong resemblance to ORC society (one chief with many wives, non-chiefs don't usually marry) which makes me wonder: did the Minotaurs get it from the Orcs, did the Orcs get it from the Minotaurs, or did EVERYBODY just do that way back when, and monogamy is a relatively new thing for Tamriel?

VerboseQuips wrote: »

6. "The Lord's Mail is said to be made of mithril. Is mithril thus linked to Kynareth? Where does mithril come from? Did the Minotaurs use it to craft their armors and weapons under the Alessian empire? And what did Alessian-Minotaurian architecture look like? "

From the blurb we got during Pacrooti's question and answer session, I gather they're just pretending mithril never existed. But for the purposes of my headcanon, I declared that mithril == quicksilver, they're just using a non-copyrighted name for it now. I also declared that it was first discovered in Mistral and that the name 'mithril' is just a corruption of that which came into common use, rather than the metal's proper name (like Tanzanite in the real world). This is pure headcanon as far as I know, though.

VerboseQuips wrote: »

VerboseQuips wrote: »

There are some other tidbits of information. For example, they are guarding Ayleid places (to prevent ill-intentioned people to get inside, or to prevent nefarious things to loom outside? Or just because they were forced to live in places that were generally considered infamous or undesirable by the Men of the late Alessian Empire?) and they guard a place of high relevance to the Alessian Empire (Knightsgrave). Another piece of information is the red colour that tints the ground when they use magic. Personnally this makes me think to Nirncrux, though it could be just a cosmetic effect - but it is compatible with the name of the spell, i.e. "Pillars of Nirn". But what do the Minotaurs have to do with Nirncrux? An element of answer might be found here, as it seems that the beastfolk once worshipped the Celestials. If this is really the case, then the Minotaurs might be responsible for the creation of the Doom Stones, and the red runes on those might be made of Nirncrux.

I realized that the Sky-worship of the beastfolk mentioned in this (unreliable) source takes place in the Mythic Era, so this might very well not apply to the Minotaurs if they originated under the Alessian Empire. But on the other hand, there are other in-game documents testifying of the existence of some race before the generally accepted time of their supposed creation.

Don't forget that it was the Nedes who started the star-worship originally, and Alessia was descended from the Nedic slaves taken by the Aylieds. If we take it as given that the Minotaurs are all descended from her, it's not so strange that her children might keep the star worship. Though (assuming Quill-Weave wasn't just misinformed) the idea that she might have meant a different variant of beastfolk might have been more likely. (And now I want to have a Q & A for the Shadowscales too--because 'every child hatched under the Shadow sign is trained to be an assassin' is IMO a prime candidate for having its roots in star worship, but in spite of TWO DLCs having assassin-related things in them, we still haven't gotten a chance to ask. )

He is actually considered a Demiprince despite his Aedric origins. Curious, no? I'm sort of the mind, that he may be -called- Son-Of-Kyne, but might not be so. Eitherway, that's pure speculation.

Considered by whom?

UltimaJoe777

magictucktuck wrote: »

I'm not usually into lore or anything so maybe I'm wrong but can't they put anything they want in the game and then it becomes lore? Like a forgotten race or evolved species? I would think they can make or add any lore they want, or is that not how it works?

Technically whatever they add to the game series has to have lore behind it, otherwise it makes no sense in this series.

VerboseQuips

elias.stormneb18_ESO wrote: »

How about actually reading in-game books for potential answers? http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:On_Minotaurs

Oh thanks, I had overlooked this one.

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

VerboseQuips wrote: »

4. Does there exist female Minotaurs? How do they mate?

There is actually an existing lore bit for this: link.

Oh gosh, I knew this source, but apparently I didn't remember it when I wrote that.

VerboseQuips wrote: »

6. "The Lord's Mail is said to be made of mithril. Is mithril thus linked to Kynareth? Where does mithril come from? Did the Minotaurs use it to craft their armors and weapons under the Alessian empire? And what did Alessian-Minotaurian architecture look like? "

From the blurb we got during Pacrooti's question and answer session, I gather they're just pretending mithril never existed. But for the purposes of my headcanon, I declared that mithril == quicksilver, they're just using a non-copyrighted name for it now. I also declared that it was first discovered in Mistral and that the name 'mithril' is just a corruption of that which came into common use, rather than the metal's proper name (like Tanzanite in the real world). This is pure headcanon as far as I know, though.

Oh There go my hopes to see an updated design for this. But if the name was copyrighted, how could they put it in all their games until Oblivion? And I am sure I've seen the word in other games as well.

By the way, your post is awesome, and you're awesome.

catsgomeow

werecows

Abeille

Did you guys notice the Nixads that often can be seen around the Minotaur camps?

Why do you think that happens? Do you think Nixads and Minotaurs can communicate with each other? The Nixads are said to be mischievous thieves, but I imagine they don't steal stuff from the Minotaurs or they would burn the Nixads to ashes.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

VerboseQuips wrote: »

Oh There go my hopes to see an updated design for this. But if the name was copyrighted, how could they put it in all their games until Oblivion? And I am sure I've seen the word in other games as well.

I'm not sure; I thought I saw something on the subject on the wikipedia page for mithril a while back but I just checked and didn't see it.

VerboseQuips wrote: »

By the way, your post is awesome, and you're awesome.

Aww, thank you!

Mortehl

There always has to be one troll in any good discussion, trying to ruin it for whatever reason. Said person doesn't usually know when to just shut up but has to keep baiting.

For everyone else in here, I enjoyed the read. Thanks!

UltimaJoe777

elias.stormneb18_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

elias.stormneb18_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

elias.stormneb18_ESO wrote: »

How about actually reading in-game books for potential answers? http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:On_Minotaurs

Okay, that was rude and unnecessary. We are discussing here exactly because there is not a lot of reliable information on them.
See people putting forward their theories and headcanons? That's the beauty of a discussion like this.

Heh, saying "there is not a lot of reliable information" when speaking of TES lore is a little redundant, when so much of the lore is told by unreliable narrators anyway.

Of course. My comment was critisizing the actual title of the post rather than the discussion itself. I agree that headcanons are the most beautiful thing when it comes to TES fandom. I just think that it is stupid to name a post "Where did Minotaurs come from and do they belong in Tamriel?" when there are several books in-game that give the answers to those questions.

So you're being rude and criticizing discussions in general as a lot of discussion topics in history were actually named in the form of a question, generally in debates. Just because it looks like a question doesn't mean it has to be treated like one.

That you asked questions was not my issue. My issue was the questions that you asked. Both of your questions are answered by several sources in-game, which really doesn't leave much room for discussion.

The posts in this thread state otherwise. Not mine or anyone else's fault you can't see past a title to the true meaning of a thread.

Abeille wrote: »

Did you guys notice the Nixads that often can be seen around the Minotaur camps?

Why do you think that happens? Do you think Nixads and Minotaurs can communicate with each other? The Nixads are said to be mischievous thieves, but I imagine they don't steal stuff from the Minotaurs or they would burn the Nixads to ashes.

Considering how Dodge-y those Nixad are I would not be surprised if they were that bold lol

JD2013

They've been in Elder Scrolls games since Arena, and there's lots of lore and books that refer to them.

So yes, they do belong in the game and indeed in Tamriel.

nimander99

Abeille wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

I don't know where they come from but St. Alessia had a minotaur companion during the revolution against the Ayleids or Heartland High Elves, long before this game takes place.

Pretty much this. The only "origin" we know of Minotaurs isn't certain, but it is said that they came from the love between Morihaus and Alessia.

Here, read about Morihaus: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Morihaus

They do belong in Tamriel, and they had been in the games since Arena.

Morihaus, that's his name! Thanks for the fleshout @Abeille I was going purely from memory... I need to upgrade my RAM. Pun intended

imnotanother

There were those Minotaurs guarding the Unicorn in oblivion. So it has to be in the lore.

raglau

I seem to remember that Minotaurs were even in Elder Scrolls: Arena, so definitely compatible with lore.

Rosveen

Abeille wrote: »

Did you guys notice the Nixads that often can be seen around the Minotaur camps?

Why do you think that happens? Do you think Nixads and Minotaurs can communicate with each other? The Nixads are said to be mischievous thieves, but I imagine they don't steal stuff from the Minotaurs or they would burn the Nixads to ashes.

Do they hang around minotaurs or something else that minotaurs happen to camp near, though? We know they like magic and minotaurs are often found near Ayleid ruins.
Or maybe they do it for safety. Save for a random hero murderhoboing their way around, I doubt people disturb minotaur camps. There is always a risk of retaliation for all their messing around with humans, and I imagine not all of them take kindly to being kept around as pets.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

In a nutshell, they're the offspring of the demigod Morihaus, the son of Kyne and a giant winged Minotaur, and his lover Periff, also known as Empress Alessia, the founder of the human Cyrodiilic Empire. The second Emperor, Belharza, was their son, and all the minotaurs that roam the hills and valleys in Cyrodiil to this day are also descended from this union.

Abeille

Rosveen wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Did you guys notice the Nixads that often can be seen around the Minotaur camps?

Why do you think that happens? Do you think Nixads and Minotaurs can communicate with each other? The Nixads are said to be mischievous thieves, but I imagine they don't steal stuff from the Minotaurs or they would burn the Nixads to ashes.

Do they hang around minotaurs or something else that minotaurs happen to camp near, though? We know they like magic and minotaurs are often found near Ayleid ruins.
Or maybe they do it for safety. Save for a random hero murderhoboing their way around, I doubt people disturb minotaur camps. There is always a risk of retaliation for all their messing around with humans, and I imagine not all of them take kindly to being kept around as pets.

It is very possible that they are around the Minotaurs because of the magic, yeah. The only Minotaur camp that I can think of that is not next to an Ayleid ruin (although still close) is right in front of a shrine, so there's that. The Orchid Nixads are the ones that I saw with the Minotaurs, so maybe there is something to do with that too. The Turquoise ones are always around Skyshards and Nirnroot instead of Minotaurs.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Just so you know those who have only played Skyrim would know little about what other creatures exist within the lore..here is an example of a few of the more rare creatures that have prowled the lands of Tamriel but are not currently present in ESO.

- Centaur (Present in ES: Daggerfall)
- Unicorn (Present in ES: Oblivion)
- Will-O-the Wisp (Present in ES: Oblivion)
- Nymph (Present in ES: Daggerfall)

Junipus

driosketch wrote: »

Junipus wrote: »

Minotaurs were/are in Oblivion and could be found in the Gold Coast area of the game they currently reside in. This is during the end of the 3rd Era so after this game. I'm sure more knowledgeable ESO fans would advise if they were in Daggerfall set at the beginning of the second Era I believe and so before the setting for this game.

Actually, all of the first 4 Elder Scroll games of the main series are set during the final decades of the 3rd Era, under the reign of the same Emperor, Uriel Septim VII, no less. Skyrim is 2 centuries into the 4th Era or so, and ESO in late mid 2nd Era if I remember correctly.

I stand corrected and enlightened.

Rosveen

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Just so you know those who have only played Skyrim would know little about what other creatures exist within the lore..here is an example of a few of the more rare creatures that have prowled the lands of Tamriel but are not currently present in ESO.

- Centaur (Present in ES: Daggerfall)
- Unicorn (Present in ES: Oblivion)
- Will-O-the Wisp (Present in ES: Oblivion)
- Nymph (Present in ES: Daggerfall)

Wisps are in ESO. They are perhaps a different type of wisp than those we know from Oblivion, which tended to be lone predators, but they are certainly related.

UltimaJoe777

Rosveen wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Just so you know those who have only played Skyrim would know little about what other creatures exist within the lore..here is an example of a few of the more rare creatures that have prowled the lands of Tamriel but are not currently present in ESO.

- Centaur (Present in ES: Daggerfall)
- Unicorn (Present in ES: Oblivion)
- Will-O-the Wisp (Present in ES: Oblivion)
- Nymph (Present in ES: Daggerfall)

Wisps are in ESO. They are perhaps a different type of wisp than those we know from Oblivion, which tended to be lone predators, but they are certainly related.

And we will probably see the rest added later on.

Zardayne

I'm just glad they finally put in more mob types...you can only kill the same daedra and bandit/cultist models over and over for so long. I say to hell with lore and bring on the variety..

ZOS_JohanaB

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