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ESO Creation Kit. Why YES or Why NO?
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Dragonnord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭What if Creation Kit is limited to content that would not "harm" the game (cheating, god mode, etc.), for example; landscape creation/improvements, new zones, new quests, new bosses, etc., etc., etc.?
Maybe even new great looking gear and weapons (with no stats - working just as costumes do) or even costumes created by players?
Wouldn't that work either?
Thanks.Edited by Dragonnord on February 16, 2019 11:03AM1 -
Jar_Ek✭✭✭✭✭Yes, ESO should have a Creation KitYes but only to allow for player generated content in a similar way to neverwinter... but with different restrictions and options.1 -
RAGUNAnoOne✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, ESO shouldn't have a Creation KitSony hates user made content so zenimax will have to put aseperate patch for PS4 that excludes this more work for them. Besides that this is a MMO how the hell can a creation kit work? However I am not opposed to users sending in outfits ECT to enimax to make them public I would love to see @AlienSlof brand outfits in ESOPS4 NA
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jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No, ESO shouldn't have a Creation KitBonzodog01 wrote: »And yet again, people forget that this game is becoming ever more Console centric, which means before doing anything now, the devs have to ask themselves "Can we make this work on Console and keep MS and Sony happy?". If it breaks something to do with the console models, and MS or Sony do not agree, it isn't happening, even on PC.
well.... no.
not how things worked out on fallout 4 for instance.0 -
Necrelios✭✭✭✭✭Yes, ESO should have a Creation KitBonzodog01 wrote: »And yet again, people forget that this game is becoming ever more Console centric, which means before doing anything now, the devs have to ask themselves "Can we make this work on Console and keep MS and Sony happy?". If it breaks something to do with the console models, and MS or Sony do not agree, it isn't happening, even on PC.
The solution would be not to release the creation kit for console then, pretty much like other games (even MMO's like Neverwinter or STO) that have creation kits for PC but not on console.Terms & Conditions ["We revoke permission to fictional legal constructs or private/public persons for selling of any private data, censorship, surveillance, personage or conversion as a trespass of law. We prohibit the practice of "procedural law" or corporate statues in place of divine law."]0 -
starlizard70ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No, ESO shouldn't have a Creation KitA creation kit for single player games is great for customizing your game for how you want to play it. A creation kit for MMOs is a very bad idea because it opens the games up to cheaters and exploiters. Also someone could create a mod that by accident or design, opens users pcs to hackers and viruses."We have found a cave, but I don't think there are warm fires and friendly faces inside."0 -
Necrelios✭✭✭✭✭Yes, ESO should have a Creation Kitstarlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »A creation kit for single player games is great for customizing your game for how you want to play it. A creation kit for MMOs is a very bad idea because it opens the games up to cheaters and exploiters. Also someone could create a mod that by accident or design, opens users pcs to hackers and viruses.
That's not how it works. Just look at Neverwinter or STO. Players can create content, and it is kept separate from the rest of the game. No part of the player created content has access to the rest of the game, or visa versa. You can't upload your own content, you only have access to elements already in the game, so there is no risk of viruses or any of those kinds of concerns.Edited by Necrelios on September 16, 2016 1:38PMTerms & Conditions ["We revoke permission to fictional legal constructs or private/public persons for selling of any private data, censorship, surveillance, personage or conversion as a trespass of law. We prohibit the practice of "procedural law" or corporate statues in place of divine law."]1 -
starlizard70ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No, ESO shouldn't have a Creation Kitstarlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »A creation kit for single player games is great for customizing your game for how you want to play it. A creation kit for MMOs is a very bad idea because it opens the games up to cheaters and exploiters. Also someone could create a mod that by accident or design, opens users pcs to hackers and viruses.
That's not how it works. Just look at Neverwinter or STO. Players can create content, and it is kept separate from the rest of the game. No part of the player created content has access to the rest of the game, or visa versa. You can't upload your own content, you only have access to elements already in the game, so there is no risk of viruses or any of those kinds of concerns.
If no part of the player created content has access to the rest of the game, then what's the point of creating it in the first place?"We have found a cave, but I don't think there are warm fires and friendly faces inside."0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No, ESO shouldn't have a Creation KitNo. Just no. We went over this many times before release, and there are FAR more reasons why its a bad idea as opposed to a good idea. Far FAR too many hacking / cheating possibilities.0 -
Bryanonymous✭✭✭✭✭No, ESO shouldn't have a Creation KitWhat if Creation Kit is limited to content that would not "harm" the game (cheating, god mode, etc.), for example; landscape creation/improvements, new zones, new quests, new bosses, etc., etc., etc.?
Maybe even new great looking gear and weapons (with no stats - working just as customes do) or even customes created by players?
Wouldn't that work either?
Thanks.
The only way this would work is if everyone was required to have X amount of bandwidth to be able to download every single thing another player has added... Then you have to worry about conflicts... What a nightmare. I think you guys are looking for second life, not ESO.0 -
Edgemoor✭✭✭Yes, ESO should have a Creation KitA creation kit for an MMO such as ESO would actually make life easier to design and implment UI changes that someone may want to customise. i.e. those that don't have the technical expertise or time to make such a mod.
Obviously designing or changing in game items and cheating is a big no no, but that can and has happened anyway.
Before that is contemplated though I'd say focus on other core aspects of the game and new content :-)Edited by Edgemoor on September 16, 2016 1:48PM0 -
Edgemoor✭✭✭Yes, ESO should have a Creation KitNo. Just no. We went over this many times before release, and there are FAR more reasons why its a bad idea as opposed to a good idea. Far FAR too many hacking / cheating possibilities.
A lot might not be familiar with that thread, would you be able to elaborate further?0 -
Necrelios✭✭✭✭✭Yes, ESO should have a Creation Kitstarlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »A creation kit for single player games is great for customizing your game for how you want to play it. A creation kit for MMOs is a very bad idea because it opens the games up to cheaters and exploiters. Also someone could create a mod that by accident or design, opens users pcs to hackers and viruses.
That's not how it works. Just look at Neverwinter or STO. Players can create content, and it is kept separate from the rest of the game. No part of the player created content has access to the rest of the game, or visa versa. You can't upload your own content, you only have access to elements already in the game, so there is no risk of viruses or any of those kinds of concerns.
If no part of the player created content has access to the rest of the game, then what's the point of creating it in the first place?
As a player, you have access to the player created content in an instanced form, like entering a dungeon. While there, nothing you do can touch the rest of your game files or anything like that.No. Just no. We went over this many times before release, and there are FAR more reasons why its a bad idea as opposed to a good idea. Far FAR too many hacking / cheating possibilities.
Again, that's not how it works. Just look at many successful MMO's that have player created content.Terms & Conditions ["We revoke permission to fictional legal constructs or private/public persons for selling of any private data, censorship, surveillance, personage or conversion as a trespass of law. We prohibit the practice of "procedural law" or corporate statues in place of divine law."]1 -
Prof_Bawbag✭✭✭✭✭
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What's baffling about that is why anyone would actually need a God mode in Skyrim full stop. Players are already demi-gods due to the vastly powerful crafting systems. Then there's the fact that it's not difficult at all. With or without the use of crafting. I get people enjoy adding more realistic mods to make the game more challenging, but implementing the mods you linked to begs the question, why would anyone waste their time adding mods to make the game harder then add god mode to it.Edited by Prof_Bawbag on September 16, 2016 2:01PM0 -
BlackguardBob✭✭✭No, ESO shouldn't have a Creation KitConfucious say: "ESO Creation Kit like TV on honeymoon. Not necessary."1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, ESO shouldn't have a Creation KitFirst, OP should have explained in OP what the creation kit was instead of asuming everyone knows.
Second, this topic a me up before and was a bad idea the. And a bad idea now.
Player created content is permomitted in low quality games like Neverwinter. It does not belong and will not be permitted in ESO because the quality of player created content is poor.0 -
Necrelios✭✭✭✭✭Yes, ESO should have a Creation KitBryanonymous wrote: »
I like to use Neverwinter and STO (Star Trek Online) as examples since they have some of the best player creation tools I've seen. There has been hundreds of player created missions added in STO. In comparison to ESO, these would be like dungeons or even new zones. Who wouldn't want to see some new zones added with new quests?
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Bryanonymous✭✭✭✭✭No, ESO shouldn't have a Creation KitBryanonymous wrote: »
I like to use Neverwinter and STO (Star Trek Online) as examples since they have some of the best player creation tools I've seen. There has been hundreds of player created missions added in STO. In comparison to ESO, these would be like dungeons or even new zones. Who wouldn't want to see some new zones added with new quests?
Oh, custom missions. That's a little different than a creation kit from past TES games, but now I know what you're talking about. Grand Theft Auto: Online has something similar, where players can customize their own deathmatches, races, and other game modes, and even place objects and weapons, set markers, etc. It's actually pretty fun. Good idea for this game as well.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, ESO shouldn't have a Creation KitBryanonymous wrote: »
I like to use Neverwinter and STO (Star Trek Online) as examples since they have some of the best player creation tools I've seen. There has been hundreds of player created missions added in STO. In comparison to ESO, these would be like dungeons or even new zones. Who wouldn't want to see some new zones added with new quests?
Great example because I played Neverwinter and found the player created content was mostly poor quality. In fact it's the reason I say no to player created content with Hughes quality games like ESO. It's fine for Neverwinter.0 -
Asardes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No, ESO shouldn't have a Creation KitWell, not things that alter the game variables or the engine, because that would make it pretty vulnerable to outright cheating. I heard that in the early days the engine was quite vulnerable to boting and macroing due to much of it being on the client side. However it will be interesting to have a modding tool that allows people to create cosmetic items like costumes, pets, personalities and even larger items like furniture or entire home interiors that can be then validated by ZoS and added in game with the small incremental patches, and then put for sale on Crown Store, with the modder and ZoS splitting the proceeds. I don't know much about MMOs and if such a system exists in others but that could work and actually bring in profits with so many people not being satisfied with the current offer in the store.Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
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Yes, ESO should have a Creation KitI would be in favor of a Neverwinter Foundry-esque type system for creating quests and dungeons. It's far more basic than the creation kit released with Skyrim, for example, but does allow players some nice creative freedom to tell stories or play dungeon master. Basically you would just be placing props, monsters, quest objectives, and interactable stuff within a instance separate from the main game.
Such a system would still face two main problems that Zenimax would have to solve, however.
Botting exploits-There would have to be a way to avoid excessive farming for experience or other randomized loot.
I would do this by implementing a weekly quest reward system. Basically, you would set it up so that quest mobs would give no experience, and drop no loot. Then players would have a weekly quest that would be something along the lines of "complete a foundry quest after at least 60 minutes of time spent in foundries". This weekly quest would have a loot box attached to it with a randomized piece of loot inside, bind-on-pickup, blue, with a chance of purple quality, including the possibility of the new overworld set pieces. Maybe some other nice stuff could drop like crafting mats, chance at a motif, etc. Dungeon pieces would not be included. Again, this would be once a week, maybe limit of 3 times per account.
The viability of creating a system of potentially infinite content as a business-basically I think the only way a creation kit or foundry-like system of players making dungeons or quests would work would be if access to it was subscription only. I played Neverwinter for 2 years, and saw the Foundry basically become a non-updated buggy mess. This was in part because Neverwinter was a f2p game. I played Rift for a while as well, and one of their devs said that they looked at some study, and found that in f2p games only about 10-15% of players will ever spend money. In order for such a system in ESO to be a fun, polished experience, management will have to feel like they are earning revenue from it. Yes, eso is buy-to-play, but that's once and done. They will then ask "is there any reason for us to further update the dungeon maker system when there is no guaranteed future revenue from it?" Eventually, support will end, or go into maintenance mode. As a subscription only service, it can be argued, that even if a player makes content only for themself and never plays anything Zenimax makes, they are still providing revenue and support for the game and business. So basically, dungeon-crafting has to be subscription only, full stop. Players can't be allowed to make stuff for themselves or others without it being a revenue source for zenimax so they can support it. I am also leaning towards dungeon playing also being full subscription-only. Maybe...Maybe...they could sell weekly or monthly passes (for playing and doing the weekly quest) in the crown store, I don't know.
In the end, however, if they would make something, it would have to be closer to Neverwinter's Foundry, with it basically just being prop/mob/quest item placement (granted, I would want it to be a bit more robust and well-polished than that buggy mess that the Neverwinter Foundry currently is), with some dungeon templates, pieces, etc. I would not support a system where players would inject their own audio or meshes or textures into the game. It would be entirely game-asset only, just given to the player base to fool around with.Edited by Storms_in_Argonia on September 16, 2016 3:18PM1 -
Shourrs✭✭✭Yes, ESO should have a Creation KitI don't know if creation kit would be the right word to use but giving players the oppertunity to create some offline-stuff for friends wouldn't be the worst idea. Play around with assets, build some nice things. See that it isnt' that easy to create a non-glitching world and avoiding bugs.
Obviously, it shouldn't be possible to create mods for the online world.0 -
TheValar85✭✭✭✭✭Yes, ESO should have a Creation KitI want model Viewer so me and other Skyrim moders as well can make a lot of nice armoring mod For Skyrim as well.
Let me teas you guys a bit. I am working on this mod with my friend.
Oh yes This is the Emperor Regalia for Skyrim
My friend is working on the texture currently. Soo i could use some tools like ESO Model viewer and Creator Kit
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eklhaftb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Yes, ESO should have a Creation Kit- Make mods cosmetic only. Modded-in zones would be for roleplay/adventure only, they wouldn't be able to give any sort of rewards or achievements.
- Make mods unable to change certain objects (like chests and harvesting nodes).
- Make mods always off in PVP and competitive PVE.
- Make mods visible only to people who have the same mod installed.
- Give authors an option to sell their mods for crowns (split 50:50 with ZOS, naturally).
- ZOS could decide to implement selected mods into the base game to make them official.
"It would be abused" you say? But how, if it is cosmetic only? Modding crotchflaps away from armors, making pets invisible in cities or turning all flashy noisy crown mounts into basic brown horse hardly constitutes an abuse. Not even giving queen Ayrenn a stripper dress or making everyone naked constitutes an abuse, because it is only visible to people who want to see it. So what's the problem?0 -
Alex_Lex✭✭✭✭✭Yes, ESO should have a Creation KitWould be good for stand alone expansions.
But ZOS would never do it: it would diminish player base and kill any TES 6 successEU: Beatrice gra-Brog, Rebellie, Yshterie, Jearra , Lirielline
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Red_Feather✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes, ESO should have a Creation KitWhen you say creation kit to you mean making dungeons like in skyrim?!?!
Could players actually make their own daedric pocket realm to visit and fight in, like housing?!0 -
personman_145✭✭✭No, ESO shouldn't have a Creation KitI don't understand how such a thing would even work. I use to mod Oblivion. Did some work for the MERP team back in the day. For a single-player game, it makes sense, for an MMORPG I don't think the tool would be powerful enough to be worth all the effort to create. Otherwise, I just create a ring that makes me invincible and a sword that does 99,000 damage.
So basically, the only way it would be powerful enough to be worth the effort would destroy the game. Maybe I'm wrong?
I was working on making a One Ring, adding all sorts of neat powers via script, and scripting the AI of the Nazgul. It's very easy to make something game breaking, at least in the oblivion construction set, and trying to give that sort of power in an MMORPG is sort of like adding God mode to the online first-person shooters. It just doesn't make sense to me.
I believe to pull that off they would need to design a new software and a new system to do that bit from the ground up. Programming-wise it would probably take more effort than the rest of the game combined.
My 2 cents.
Edited by personman_145 on February 16, 2019 1:30PMPC: i5 8600k, 16GB DDR4 2666Mhz RAM, GeForce GTX 1060 6GB
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lokulin✭✭✭✭✭Yes, ESO should have a Creation KitYes, if you mean like the dungeon creator that Neverwinter has. Even then really only a "maybe yes" because why not.I've hidden your signature.0
This discussion has been closed.