Where is the magicka armor to counter shuffle and dodge roll?

LegacyDM

So if ZOS is so hell bent on introducing armor sets as the main way to balance their game where is the magicka armor set or monster gear that negates dodge roll and shuffle stack? As a magicka class I want to wear armor that stops the continuous shuffling and dodge rolling. Or at least makes it more difficult for the stam meta to get away. It's stupid that the only way to combat this mechanic is to run around with a masters ice staff spamming destructive reach.

While we are at it, where is my magicka set that gives major defile on attack to stop all the vigor, Bol, and healing circle spammers?

Come on ZOS give us magicka users something useful to combat the dodge and instant healing meta.

And no poisons is not the answer.

Autolycus

Rendering someone else's skills ineffective by skill locking them is not a fair counter. A counter to a particular strategy is one that, generally, uses an opponent's methods against them, or merely has an effective way to halt their strategy. These things already exist through skills, the most effective of which is a hard CC like Agony, Rune Prison, or Petrify. A deadly combination against these players is to alternate the use of a hard CC with an immobilize, like Agony > Crippling Grasp, or Petrify > Talons, or Rune Prison > Encase.

Your suggestion to do it through gear isn't necessarily a bad idea though. An example of one such counter would be the Shieldbreaker set. The problem with doing this through gear is that it places severe limitations on what the build is actually capable of. Generally speaking, players don't gear themselves out to be perfect against a single type of opponent, and nothing else. Doing this generally forces said player to be less beneficial in a group setting. Therefore, these types of sets are best used by solo or small-group players, but of course there is nothing wrong with that.

I know you said poisons isn't the answer, but this point I disagree with, at least given my own experiences both using and being targeted by said poisons. They make a noticeable impact on the opponent's sustainability and often times results in a win when I use them. There are also counters to poisons too, hybrid builds being one such example.

WhoThenNow7

Same place the stamina armor to counter magicka shield stacks are.

Luigi_Vampa

WhoThenNow7 wrote: »

Same place the stamina armor to counter magicka shield stacks are.

You mean shield-breaker or the CP passive that increases damage to shields?

Joy_Division

Roll a templar. It's the only magicka spec that can compete with the 2H rally-vigor-shuffle-Dizzying Blow spammers.

jhharvest

Yeah, magicka version of Shield Breaker. Could be:

True Strike Set
(2 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items) Your Light and Heavy Attacks deal 2015 irresistible damage against enemies who dodge or evade.

Sounds fair, right?

Edit: Let's pair it with a different destro staff ultimate. It can be an identical copy of the 2-hander or bow one, just scaling off max magicka and spell power. (:

Articulemort

I can't believe this hasn't been said yet...

But who needs a new armor set when you can just spam Radiant Destruction at them!???

NeillMcAttack

I thought we moved passed calling it shuffle stacking. It is not stacking. The issue is with the size of the invulnerability window granted with dodge rolling.

Rykmaar

There is no adequate counter to dodge rolling. ZoS created this mess themselves. It looks like they have no intention of fixing it.

Cronopoly

The Only thing I can think of is the about to be Nerfed Lightning staff with a Stamina Reduction Poison on it....sigh.

Actually Lightning staves do no discernable damage in PVP today as Rally/Vigor easily outheal the damage so much it's laughable. It's just a gimmick just to say. "Yay, I actually hit something".

Armitas

The counterplay to stamina is to roll stamina. Magicka is just a red herring designed for Role Play.

Father_X_Zombie

Theres a set to counter shields but none to counter major evasion lmao

lucky_Sage

the trick is to not e balance with just sets like shield breaker and vicious death etc. is dumb and actually try to fix it by maybe to a complete overhaul of champion point system and maybe soft caps back and stop doing band-aid fixes

Rykmaar

lucky_Sage wrote: »

the trick is to not e balance with just sets like shield breaker and vicious death etc. is dumb and actually try to fix it by maybe to a complete overhaul of champion point system and maybe soft caps back and stop doing band-aid fixes

That would require actual work from ZoS.

Xvorg

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I thought we moved passed calling it shuffle stacking. It is not stacking. The issue is with the size of the invulnerability window granted with dodge rolling.

Yesterday I threw 4 flying blades to a guy in Hadyland, near Alessia's farm. One hit him before he started dodge rolling.

Armitas

Xvorg wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I thought we moved passed calling it shuffle stacking. It is not stacking. The issue is with the size of the invulnerability window granted with dodge rolling.

Yesterday I threw 4 flying blades to a guy in Hadyland, near Alessia's farm. One hit him before he started dodge rolling.

Yeah I have seen 6 hits dodged quite often from shuffle alone. I don't know how but its broken.

NeillMcAttack

Xvorg wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I thought we moved passed calling it shuffle stacking. It is not stacking. The issue is with the size of the invulnerability window granted with dodge rolling.

Yesterday I threw 4 flying blades to a guy in Hadyland, near Alessia's farm. One hit him before he started dodge rolling.

Armitas wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I thought we moved passed calling it shuffle stacking. It is not stacking. The issue is with the size of the invulnerability window granted with dodge rolling.

Yesterday I threw 4 flying blades to a guy in Hadyland, near Alessia's farm. One hit him before he started dodge rolling.

Yeah I have seen 6 hits dodged quite often from shuffle alone. I don't know how but its broken.

Test shuffle yourself. Get a mate to stand perfectly still and his dodges will average out at 1 in 5.

Now have your mate dodge roll and you will see him dodge an unlimited amount of attacks in the dodge roll window that lasts over 2 secs, in fact, he will look to have completely finished his roll, and he has, he is even able to cast spells, and you will still see him do the animation for dodging, without even having shuffle up. The window in which invulnerability to everything that isn't AOE is way too large. Add in latency and you have people claiming that shuffle dodges more than its supposed to, that is just not the case.

Xvorg

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I thought we moved passed calling it shuffle stacking. It is not stacking. The issue is with the size of the invulnerability window granted with dodge rolling.

Yesterday I threw 4 flying blades to a guy in Hadyland, near Alessia's farm. One hit him before he started dodge rolling.

Armitas wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I thought we moved passed calling it shuffle stacking. It is not stacking. The issue is with the size of the invulnerability window granted with dodge rolling.

Yesterday I threw 4 flying blades to a guy in Hadyland, near Alessia's farm. One hit him before he started dodge rolling.

Yeah I have seen 6 hits dodged quite often from shuffle alone. I don't know how but its broken.

Test shuffle yourself. Get a mate to stand perfectly still and his dodges will average out at 1 in 5.

Now have your mate dodge roll and you will see him dodge an unlimited amount of attacks in the dodge roll window that lasts over 2 secs, in fact, he will look to have completely finished his roll, and he has, he is even able to cast spells, and you will still see him do the animation for dodging, without even having shuffle up. The window in which invulnerability to everything that isn't AOE is way too large. Add in latency and you have people claiming that shuffle dodges more than its supposed to, that is just not the case.

I think you don't understand my firsth statement... he was standing for... 5 or 6 secs. Each flying blade took 1 secs cooldown (standard).

Browiseth

sorc - daedric curse
templar - radiant destrucheese
nightblade - fear maybe?
dk - you gotta bigger problems mang

Armitas

I wonder if new I frames are being triggered within current I frames. Or maybe shuffle is mixing with dodge to trigger that 2 second window again rather than a shuffle frame.

QuebraRegra

LegacyDM wrote: »

So if ZOS is so hell bent on introducing armor sets as the main way to balance their game where is the magicka armor set or monster gear that negates dodge roll and shuffle stack? As a magicka class I want to wear armor that stops the continuous shuffling and dodge rolling. Or at least makes it more difficult for the stam meta to get away. It's stupid that the only way to combat this mechanic is to run around with a masters ice staff spamming destructive reach.

While we are at it, where is my magicka set that gives major defile on attack to stop all the vigor, Bol, and healing circle spammers?

Come on ZOS give us magicka users something useful to combat the dodge and instant healing meta.

And no poisons is not the answer.

LegacyDM wrote: »

So if ZOS is so hell bent on introducing armor sets as the main way to balance their game where is the magicka armor set or monster gear that negates dodge roll and shuffle stack? As a magicka class I want to wear armor that stops the continuous shuffling and dodge rolling. Or at least makes it more difficult for the stam meta to get away. It's stupid that the only way to combat this mechanic is to run around with a masters ice staff spamming destructive reach.

While we are at it, where is my magicka set that gives major defile on attack to stop all the vigor, Bol, and healing circle spammers?

Come on ZOS give us magicka users something useful to combat the dodge and instant healing meta.

And no poisons is not the answer.

These are all obviously VERY flawed approaches to balance changes, and they create more problems then they might ever address, yet they persist.

Can we try softcaps again for a bit?

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

Autolycus wrote: »

Rendering someone else's skills ineffective by skill locking them is not a fair counter. A counter to a particular strategy is one that, generally, uses an opponent's methods against them, or merely has an effective way to halt their strategy. These things already exist through skills, the most effective of which is a hard CC like Agony, Rune Prison, or Petrify. A deadly combination against these players is to alternate the use of a hard CC with an immobilize, like Agony > Crippling Grasp, or Petrify > Talons, or Rune Prison > Encase.

Your suggestion to do it through gear isn't necessarily a bad idea though. An example of one such counter would be the Shieldbreaker set. The problem with doing this through gear is that it places severe limitations on what the build is actually capable of. Generally speaking, players don't gear themselves out to be perfect against a single type of opponent, and nothing else. Doing this generally forces said player to be less beneficial in a group setting. Therefore, these types of sets are best used by solo or small-group players, but of course there is nothing wrong with that.

I know you said poisons isn't the answer, but this point I disagree with, at least given my own experiences both using and being targeted by said poisons. They make a noticeable impact on the opponent's sustainability and often times results in a win when I use them. There are also counters to poisons too, hybrid builds being one such example.

but you cant just "simply cc them" because they can roll and rng shuffle dodge it 8times out of 10. saying to use cc when the complaint is that its too easy to get around cc is full facepalm man

LegacyDM

QuebraRegra wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

So if ZOS is so hell bent on introducing armor sets as the main way to balance their game where is the magicka armor set or monster gear that negates dodge roll and shuffle stack? As a magicka class I want to wear armor that stops the continuous shuffling and dodge rolling. Or at least makes it more difficult for the stam meta to get away. It's stupid that the only way to combat this mechanic is to run around with a masters ice staff spamming destructive reach.

While we are at it, where is my magicka set that gives major defile on attack to stop all the vigor, Bol, and healing circle spammers?

Come on ZOS give us magicka users something useful to combat the dodge and instant healing meta.

And no poisons is not the answer.

LegacyDM wrote: »

So if ZOS is so hell bent on introducing armor sets as the main way to balance their game where is the magicka armor set or monster gear that negates dodge roll and shuffle stack? As a magicka class I want to wear armor that stops the continuous shuffling and dodge rolling. Or at least makes it more difficult for the stam meta to get away. It's stupid that the only way to combat this mechanic is to run around with a masters ice staff spamming destructive reach.

While we are at it, where is my magicka set that gives major defile on attack to stop all the vigor, Bol, and healing circle spammers?

Come on ZOS give us magicka users something useful to combat the dodge and instant healing meta.

And no poisons is not the answer.

These are all obviously VERY flawed approaches to balance changes, and they create more problems then they might ever address, yet they persist.

Can we try softcaps again for a bit?

Your absolutely correct! Yet that's Zos approach not mine. And if Zos is going to take that approach, where is the magicka sets that counter stamina dodging and instant healing op game play?