A FREE, HUGE Improvement for ESO | Patch X - 'Polling and player Moderators'

Blobsky

[SNIP]

Edited for profanity.

For a very rare time, I really ask you to like and share this video to help spread awareness for how much this could benefit the game! Any questions or thoughts please share below! -- Watch live at

Cazzy

Hey! Can't watch right now but is there any info you can share here?

Zerok

Cazzy wrote: »

Hey! Can't watch right now but is there any info you can share here?

Same

Pandorii

It's a democratic model to game changes. Blob, you're really thorough in thinking about potential problems with it, like biased polls related to class changes.

I think this is an incredible idea, and it benefits both parties (the community and ZOS).

josefcifkaeb17_ESO

Mate, that's not really an easy thing to pull off, probably not feasible at all.
The polling results would vary a lot with region. For example people from the US might vote for yes (a vast majority) and people from asia no (also vast majoriy) what do you do then? Say fudge it, we don't need asia?

Also, many times the votes might result +/- 50/50, what then? (doesn't have to be 50vs50, even 70/30 is bad) Just screw cca 50% of players? If it happens 3 times in a row, the people who always ended up "screwed" will get fed up with it and leave.

Casual players greatly outweight the more serious community, so every poll would end up in favor of casual players.
While the more serious players might not be as great in numbers, it's not a number you can neglect.

These polls seems like a wise thing to do at first, but when you weigh in all the factors it's just not feasible.
There's a reason no mmorpg has a system like this, you're not the 1st person with this idea.

Blobsky

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Mate, that's not really an easy thing to pull off, probably not feasible at all.
The polling results would vary a lot with region. For example people from the US might vote for yes (a vast majority) and people from asia no (also vast majoriy) what do you do then? Say fudge it, we don't need asia?

Also, many times the votes might result +/- 50/50, what then? (doesn't have to be 50vs50, even 70/30 is bad) Just screw cca 50% of players? If it happens 3 times in a row, the people who always ended up "screwed" will get fed up with it and leave.

Casual players greatly outweight the more serious community, so every poll would end up in favor of casual players.
While the more serious players might not be as great in numbers, it's not a number you can neglect.

These polls seems like a wise thing to do at first, but when you weigh in all the factors it's just not feasible.
There's a reason no mmorpg has a system like this, you're not the 1st person with this idea.

(1) Polling can be made within google drives - I tested a number of questions on stream and it always benefitted the majority of the community
(2) if a vote doesn't reach 70, it will not pass. Imagine it is 50-50. Not releasing screws half, releasing screws half.Imagine the same with 70/30 - The majority get what they want
(3) I am a competitive player as are many in my stream and have no issue with casual players having their say, most want to be competitive to some degree or believe they are, the others still want what is best for the game.

Blobsky

Cazzy wrote: »

Hey! Can't watch right now but is there any info you can share here?

Zerok wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

Hey! Can't watch right now but is there any info you can share here?

Same

Hi both, thanks for the interest.

ONLY the full video can explain how to remove any bias, fully get it working etc, but essentially they poll ideas that they believe they can make for the game (BEFORE spending any money working on the idea) to see if the community wants it in the game. If a majority agrees, they can work on development (A majority = 70% as determined by the stream) The other section is about player moderators and forum moderators, with an increase contact with zenimax (perhaps by mail, whisper, separate forum or whatever) to allow them to push ideas towards zenimax that look heavily favoured in the forums.

IF you can watch the full video after, it would help a lot as this doesn't explain everything important but works as a summary

josefcifkaeb17_ESO

Blobsky wrote: »

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Mate, that's not really an easy thing to pull off, probably not feasible at all.
The polling results would vary a lot with region. For example people from the US might vote for yes (a vast majority) and people from asia no (also vast majoriy) what do you do then? Say fudge it, we don't need asia?

Also, many times the votes might result +/- 50/50, what then? (doesn't have to be 50vs50, even 70/30 is bad) Just screw cca 50% of players? If it happens 3 times in a row, the people who always ended up "screwed" will get fed up with it and leave.

Casual players greatly outweight the more serious community, so every poll would end up in favor of casual players.
While the more serious players might not be as great in numbers, it's not a number you can neglect.

These polls seems like a wise thing to do at first, but when you weigh in all the factors it's just not feasible.
There's a reason no mmorpg has a system like this, you're not the 1st person with this idea.

(1) Polling can be made within google drives - I tested a number of questions on stream and it always benefitted the majority of the community
(2) if a vote doesn't reach 70, it will not pass. Imagine it is 50-50. Not releasing screws half, releasing screws half.Imagine the same with 70/30 - The majority get what they want
(3) I am a competitive player as are many in my stream and have no issue with casual players having their say, most want to be competitive to some degree or believe they are, the others still want what is best for the game.

1, A test with a limited community doesn't prove anything, especially one from your stream which is being watched by people that enjoy your content, hence think in a similar fashion.

2, 30% of people that get neglected in that vote is not a number you can dismiss. Nobody sane working for a company would do that. (even if the same number of people gets neglected the standard way with no choice, the psychological impact on players is way different)

3, Your stream is sought by people that think in a similar manner to you, you can't base anything of it, it's far from even being near objective.

You seem to base everything of the fact that you're a streamer and your community, how big is that community if you don't mind me asking?

On youtube you have 2 381 subs, even if all of those people voted in your test polls it's such a small number when compared to the amount of people that play ESO worldwide that it's not worth mentioning.

I'm not trying to belittle your success on youtube, it's just a fact.

Rohamad_Ali

The only way to get real numbers would be to have ingame voting .

Blobsky

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Mate, that's not really an easy thing to pull off, probably not feasible at all.
The polling results would vary a lot with region. For example people from the US might vote for yes (a vast majority) and people from asia no (also vast majoriy) what do you do then? Say fudge it, we don't need asia?

Also, many times the votes might result +/- 50/50, what then? (doesn't have to be 50vs50, even 70/30 is bad) Just screw cca 50% of players? If it happens 3 times in a row, the people who always ended up "screwed" will get fed up with it and leave.

Casual players greatly outweight the more serious community, so every poll would end up in favor of casual players.
While the more serious players might not be as great in numbers, it's not a number you can neglect.

These polls seems like a wise thing to do at first, but when you weigh in all the factors it's just not feasible.
There's a reason no mmorpg has a system like this, you're not the 1st person with this idea.

(1) Polling can be made within google drives - I tested a number of questions on stream and it always benefitted the majority of the community
(2) if a vote doesn't reach 70, it will not pass. Imagine it is 50-50. Not releasing screws half, releasing screws half.Imagine the same with 70/30 - The majority get what they want
(3) I am a competitive player as are many in my stream and have no issue with casual players having their say, most want to be competitive to some degree or believe they are, the others still want what is best for the game.

1, A test with a limited community doesn't prove anything, especially one from your stream which is being watched by people that enjoy your content, hence think in a similar fashion.

2, 30% of people that get neglected in that vote is not a number you can dismiss. Nobody sane working for a company would do that. (even if the same number of people gets neglected the standard way with no choice, the psychological impact on players is way different)

3, Your stream is sought by people that think in a similar manner to you, you can't base anything of it, it's far from even being near objective.

You seem to base everything of the fact that you're a streamer and your community, how big is that community if you don't mind me asking?

On youtube you have 2 381 subs, even if all of those people voted in your test polls it's such a small number when compared to the amount of people that play ESO worldwide that it's not worth mentioning.

I'm not trying to belittle your success on youtube, it's just a fact.

(1) This video includes a suggestion to test it on PTS, not my stream. That has absolutely nothing to do with me, it is just a suggestion

(2) 30% of course shouldn't be neglected, but either 30% or 70% always will - Which should get the result?

(3) Read (1)

(4) My youtube and twitch are irrelevant. I am not asking for anyuthing to do with either. But I am quite certain @Sypherpk @Fengrush @King_richard15 @Lefty_Lucy @Deltia and many others would enjoy this if youtube/twitch numbers are your only thoughts here. I am suggesting content, not saying 'my youtube has this do this'. I asked people outside stream too.

If you watched the whole video, it clearly states it should be tested in the PTS, and this is even in the video description.


The votes in the video aren't designed to change things, they are simply examples of HOW it could be done.

josefcifkaeb17_ESO

Blobsky wrote: »

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Mate, that's not really an easy thing to pull off, probably not feasible at all.
The polling results would vary a lot with region. For example people from the US might vote for yes (a vast majority) and people from asia no (also vast majoriy) what do you do then? Say fudge it, we don't need asia?

Also, many times the votes might result +/- 50/50, what then? (doesn't have to be 50vs50, even 70/30 is bad) Just screw cca 50% of players? If it happens 3 times in a row, the people who always ended up "screwed" will get fed up with it and leave.

Casual players greatly outweight the more serious community, so every poll would end up in favor of casual players.
While the more serious players might not be as great in numbers, it's not a number you can neglect.

These polls seems like a wise thing to do at first, but when you weigh in all the factors it's just not feasible.
There's a reason no mmorpg has a system like this, you're not the 1st person with this idea.

(1) Polling can be made within google drives - I tested a number of questions on stream and it always benefitted the majority of the community
(2) if a vote doesn't reach 70, it will not pass. Imagine it is 50-50. Not releasing screws half, releasing screws half.Imagine the same with 70/30 - The majority get what they want
(3) I am a competitive player as are many in my stream and have no issue with casual players having their say, most want to be competitive to some degree or believe they are, the others still want what is best for the game.

1, A test with a limited community doesn't prove anything, especially one from your stream which is being watched by people that enjoy your content, hence think in a similar fashion.

2, 30% of people that get neglected in that vote is not a number you can dismiss. Nobody sane working for a company would do that. (even if the same number of people gets neglected the standard way with no choice, the psychological impact on players is way different)

3, Your stream is sought by people that think in a similar manner to you, you can't base anything of it, it's far from even being near objective.

You seem to base everything of the fact that you're a streamer and your community, how big is that community if you don't mind me asking?

On youtube you have 2 381 subs, even if all of those people voted in your test polls it's such a small number when compared to the amount of people that play ESO worldwide that it's not worth mentioning.

I'm not trying to belittle your success on youtube, it's just a fact.

(1) This video includes a suggestion to test it on PTS, not my stream. That has absolutely nothing to do with me, it is just a suggestion

(2) 30% of course shouldn't be neglected, but either 30% or 70% always will - Which should get the result?

(3) Read (1)

(4) My youtube and twitch are irrelevant. I am not asking for anyuthing to do with either. But I am quite certain @Sypherpk @Fengrush @King_richard15 @Lefty_Lucy @Deltia and many others would enjoy this if youtube/twitch numbers are your only thoughts here. I am suggesting content, not saying 'my youtube has this do this'. I asked people outside stream too.

If you watched the whole video, it clearly states it should be tested in the PTS, and this is even in the video description.

1, completely beside the point.
2, read my words in brackets.
3, completely beside the point.
4, it's not about the numbers, it's about you not thinking about so many different impacts on the community.

Transparent voting system can be compared to politics. Imagine if moving somewhere else would be as easy as changing the game you play. Twice in a row a political party you don't like would win the election, what would a you do then? If moving was so easy, you'd move someplace where the political party you like has won the election. However, if you never had a choice, nor had anyone before you, you'd consider it normal and you'd keep living there, ar least until it's no longer bearable.

While stupid, and basically meaning that dictatorship (with a good ruler) is better than democracy in a game, it's still true ^-^

Also, most people I know do not even have PTS installed, and I bet most people in general don't either, so a test there would also be to no avail.

Preyfar

I think the major problem you can run into is if they put out a poll saying "Should X, Y or Z happen?" and players really, REALLY love the idea, but it doesn't pass, they can harbor a grudge or residual disappointment which can fester.

Blobsky

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Mate, that's not really an easy thing to pull off, probably not feasible at all.
The polling results would vary a lot with region. For example people from the US might vote for yes (a vast majority) and people from asia no (also vast majoriy) what do you do then? Say fudge it, we don't need asia?

Also, many times the votes might result +/- 50/50, what then? (doesn't have to be 50vs50, even 70/30 is bad) Just screw cca 50% of players? If it happens 3 times in a row, the people who always ended up "screwed" will get fed up with it and leave.

Casual players greatly outweight the more serious community, so every poll would end up in favor of casual players.
While the more serious players might not be as great in numbers, it's not a number you can neglect.

These polls seems like a wise thing to do at first, but when you weigh in all the factors it's just not feasible.
There's a reason no mmorpg has a system like this, you're not the 1st person with this idea.

(1) Polling can be made within google drives - I tested a number of questions on stream and it always benefitted the majority of the community
(2) if a vote doesn't reach 70, it will not pass. Imagine it is 50-50. Not releasing screws half, releasing screws half.Imagine the same with 70/30 - The majority get what they want
(3) I am a competitive player as are many in my stream and have no issue with casual players having their say, most want to be competitive to some degree or believe they are, the others still want what is best for the game.

1, A test with a limited community doesn't prove anything, especially one from your stream which is being watched by people that enjoy your content, hence think in a similar fashion.

2, 30% of people that get neglected in that vote is not a number you can dismiss. Nobody sane working for a company would do that. (even if the same number of people gets neglected the standard way with no choice, the psychological impact on players is way different)

3, Your stream is sought by people that think in a similar manner to you, you can't base anything of it, it's far from even being near objective.

You seem to base everything of the fact that you're a streamer and your community, how big is that community if you don't mind me asking?

On youtube you have 2 381 subs, even if all of those people voted in your test polls it's such a small number when compared to the amount of people that play ESO worldwide that it's not worth mentioning.

I'm not trying to belittle your success on youtube, it's just a fact.

(1) This video includes a suggestion to test it on PTS, not my stream. That has absolutely nothing to do with me, it is just a suggestion

(2) 30% of course shouldn't be neglected, but either 30% or 70% always will - Which should get the result?

(3) Read (1)

(4) My youtube and twitch are irrelevant. I am not asking for anyuthing to do with either. But I am quite certain @Sypherpk @Fengrush @King_richard15 @Lefty_Lucy @Deltia and many others would enjoy this if youtube/twitch numbers are your only thoughts here. I am suggesting content, not saying 'my youtube has this do this'. I asked people outside stream too.

If you watched the whole video, it clearly states it should be tested in the PTS, and this is even in the video description.

1, completely beside the point.
2, read my words in brackets.
3, completely beside the point.
4, it's not about the numbers, it's about you not thinking about so many different impacts on the community.

Transparent voting system can be compared to politics. Imagine if moving somewhere else would be as easy as changing the game you play. Twice in a row a political party you don't like would win the election, what would a you do then? If moving was so easy, you'd move someplace where the political party you like has won the election. However, if you never had a choice, nor had anyone before you, you'd consider it normal and you'd keep living there, ar least until it's no longer bearable.

While stupid, and basically meaning that dictatorship (with a good ruler) is better than democracy in a game, it's still true ^-^

Also, most people I know do not even have PTS installed, and I bet most people in general don't either, so a test there would also be to no avail.

Then it could be tested in the main zone. How many patches have I seen that I dislike? Loads. As do so many other people, take buffs to stamblade (My OWN class) - they are ridiculous. Nobody would agree to then. This allows the majority of the community to decide what they want in the game.

As a side note, if people choose not to vote that is their own choice. You compared it to politics - Imagine I don't vote and a party that is useless wins by 1 vote. Who am I do complain? I didn't vote.

Blobsky

Well my video link got removed, I have absolutely no idea why as it is designed to improve the game for their company...?

jhharvest

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGJvaoO5wBjgoWppJAdqrwQ/videos

josefcifkaeb17_ESO

@Blobsky And I can't recall a single update I didn't like a perfect example of how differently people think about the game.
All I don't like about ESO currently is stability and polish.

Let's say there's a vote like this:

A, New map, trial, crafting styles etc.
B, No new content, but intensive work on lags, stability, bugs (no promise to solve anything though)

I'm not even sure how I would vote ^^ The issues in the game make me hate it at times, so B? However, I don't have anything to do anymore, since I finished all maps etc. so A?

However, I'm sure, that if A has won a few times in a row, bringing even more issues to the game, I'd be gone in no time.
And why? Because it was obvious that nothing will change (visible future trend, people have spoken) so why stay and hope for the better?

People that don't vote probably don't care that much about the game and are ultra casuals, so they don't matter that much and have no say in the result.

Regarding the video removal, profanity ^-^

Blobsky

josefcifkaeb17_ESO wrote: »

@Blobsky And I can't recall a single update I didn't like a perfect example of how differently people think about the game.
All I don't like about ESO currently is stability and polish.

Let's say there's a vote like this:

A, New map, trial, crafting styles etc.
B, No new content, but intensive work on lags, stability, bugs (no promise to solve anything though)

I'm not even sure how I would vote ^^ The issues in the game make me hate it at times, so B? However, I don't have anything to do anymore, since I finished all maps etc. so A?

However, I'm sure, that if A has won a few times in a row, bringing even more issues to the game, I'd be gone in no time.
And why? Because it was obvious that nothing will change (visible future trend, people have spoken) so why stay and hope for the better?

People that don't vote probably don't care that much about the game and are ultra casuals, so they don't matter that much and have no say in the result.

Regarding the video removal, profanity ^-^

I didn't say entire patches. Did you enjoy the addition of jesus beam?
Did you enjoy incap ulti being doubled in damage?
Do you enjoy no new magicka sets on pts?
Do you enjoy buffs to malubeth doubling the healing by allowing it to ignore battle spirit?

The only way things can change is ask, it doens't hurt to try

Tandor

I've no idea what this is about, seeing that it's a discussion forum I look to comment on discussions rather than videos. I'm not interested in what twitch streamers and youtubers may think (in their videos) are good ideas for the game, invariably they represent in any event a tiny minority of the players, but if there are some constructive ideas put forward here then the wider playerbase can discuss them and ZOS can follow that discussion and consider any ideas that have popular support. That, in my view at least, is the proper way to put forward ideas on a discussion forum - accompanied by all means by a link to a video which complements the written argument rather than being a substitute for it.

Blobsky

Tandor wrote: »

I've no idea what this is about, seeing that it's a discussion forum I look to comment on discussions rather than videos. I'm not interested in what twitch streamers and youtubers may think (in their videos) are good ideas for the game, invariably they represent in any event a tiny minority of the players, but if there are some constructive ideas put forward here then the wider playerbase can discuss them and ZOS can follow that discussion and consider any ideas that have popular support. That, in my view at least, is the proper way to put forward ideas on a discussion forum - accompanied by all means by a link to a video which complements the written argument rather than being a substitute for it.

I too am not trying to resemble my stream or youtube, I am putting an idea that I believe can benefit the community, it is up to ZOS if they use it but for sure it is a business profit to do so.

My stream and youtube have NOTHING to do with it, I simply needed an example

Tandor

Blobsky wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I've no idea what this is about, seeing that it's a discussion forum I look to comment on discussions rather than videos. I'm not interested in what twitch streamers and youtubers may think (in their videos) are good ideas for the game, invariably they represent in any event a tiny minority of the players, but if there are some constructive ideas put forward here then the wider playerbase can discuss them and ZOS can follow that discussion and consider any ideas that have popular support. That, in my view at least, is the proper way to put forward ideas on a discussion forum - accompanied by all means by a link to a video which complements the written argument rather than being a substitute for it.

I too am not trying to resemble my stream or youtube, I am putting an idea that I believe can benefit the community, it is up to ZOS if they use it but for sure it is a business profit to do so.

My stream and youtube have NOTHING to do with it, I simply needed an example

So what's the idea? Explain it to us. I'm not being obtuse or awkward, it's a discussion forum so people like to read a proposal, consider it, re-read it if necessary, then form an opinion and comment on it. Many do so from work where they can read stuff but not watch videos or follow streams. If you have an idea that you want to be taken seriously, then expound it.

Blobsky

Tandor wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I've no idea what this is about, seeing that it's a discussion forum I look to comment on discussions rather than videos. I'm not interested in what twitch streamers and youtubers may think (in their videos) are good ideas for the game, invariably they represent in any event a tiny minority of the players, but if there are some constructive ideas put forward here then the wider playerbase can discuss them and ZOS can follow that discussion and consider any ideas that have popular support. That, in my view at least, is the proper way to put forward ideas on a discussion forum - accompanied by all means by a link to a video which complements the written argument rather than being a substitute for it.

I too am not trying to resemble my stream or youtube, I am putting an idea that I believe can benefit the community, it is up to ZOS if they use it but for sure it is a business profit to do so.

My stream and youtube have NOTHING to do with it, I simply needed an example

So what's the idea? Explain it to us. I'm not being obtuse or awkward, it's a discussion forum so people like to read a proposal, consider it, re-read it if necessary, then form an opinion and comment on it. Many do so from work where they can read stuff but not watch videos or follow streams. If you have an idea that you want to be taken seriously, then expound it.

No problem! I'll copy and paste a previous comment that summarises most of it!

ONLY the full video can explain how to remove any bias, fully get it working etc, but essentially the idea is this: they poll ideas that they believe they can make for the game (BEFORE spending any money working on the idea) to see if the community wants it in the game. If a majority agrees, they can work on development (A majority = 70% as determined by the stream) The other section is about player moderators and forum moderators, with an increase contact with zenimax (perhaps by mail, whisper, separate forum or whatever) to allow them to push ideas towards zenimax that look heavily favoured in the forums.

IF you can watch the full video after, it would help a lot as this doesn't explain everything important but works as a summary

Tandor

Blobsky wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I've no idea what this is about, seeing that it's a discussion forum I look to comment on discussions rather than videos. I'm not interested in what twitch streamers and youtubers may think (in their videos) are good ideas for the game, invariably they represent in any event a tiny minority of the players, but if there are some constructive ideas put forward here then the wider playerbase can discuss them and ZOS can follow that discussion and consider any ideas that have popular support. That, in my view at least, is the proper way to put forward ideas on a discussion forum - accompanied by all means by a link to a video which complements the written argument rather than being a substitute for it.

I too am not trying to resemble my stream or youtube, I am putting an idea that I believe can benefit the community, it is up to ZOS if they use it but for sure it is a business profit to do so.

My stream and youtube have NOTHING to do with it, I simply needed an example

So what's the idea? Explain it to us. I'm not being obtuse or awkward, it's a discussion forum so people like to read a proposal, consider it, re-read it if necessary, then form an opinion and comment on it. Many do so from work where they can read stuff but not watch videos or follow streams. If you have an idea that you want to be taken seriously, then expound it.

No problem! I'll copy and paste a previous comment that summarises most of it!

ONLY the full video can explain how to remove any bias, fully get it working etc, but essentially the idea is this: they poll ideas that they believe they can make for the game (BEFORE spending any money working on the idea) to see if the community wants it in the game. If a majority agrees, they can work on development (A majority = 70% as determined by the stream) The other section is about player moderators and forum moderators, with an increase contact with zenimax (perhaps by mail, whisper, separate forum or whatever) to allow them to push ideas towards zenimax that look heavily favoured in the forums.

IF you can watch the full video after, it would help a lot as this doesn't explain everything important but works as a summary

Thanks.

No to player forum moderators, never a good idea as it's open to abuse in favour of guildmates, against PvP winners etc. I'd far rather ZOS controlled their own forums. There are plenty of independent forums for those who want them. If you're also referring to ingame player moderators then that's an even bigger no.

I'd also rather that ZOS followed discussions here as well as ingame feedback (both on the live servers and the PTS) and used that to help shape their own ideas for the game's direction and content rather than being stuck with some idea they disagree with and which may totally go against their vision or the lore of the game just because it attracts a certain level of support from the small minority of players who either read the forums or click on polls in the launcher etc.

Pandorii

@Tandor one thing that Blob does a good job of in his video is identify some areas of potential bias. Surely there are more. He acknowledges that some kinds of questions should not be delegated to the community.

However, I truly believe that there are some aspects of the game that could be delegated to the community, and both parties could benefit (as long as we can reach a certain level of outreach so the sample is large and representative). These would likely be things that have an impact but wouldn't be totally game-changing.

For example, "do you think gear should be BoP?" This is the kind of question that I think could be posed to the community without bias.

The choice that the majority choses has no real impact on the future of the game (unless someone could make a good argument for it). It might have an impact on the in-game economy, but it won't create a new meta, FOTM, or class imbalance. It won't reduce/increase the amount that people pay in subs/crowns. It won't affect someone's decision to continue/leave the game.

In Blob's video, a strong majority voted "no" on that topic, and, although, I agree that Blob's viewers are just a subset of the community, I think that we would find similar results in the general community. We've already seen the disfavor from the forum community, but I also understand that may not be representative.

So if you can determine that the strong majority of the players prefer BoE over BoP, why would ZOS make the decision to go against popular opinion? Perhaps they didn't have the information to know that the community would be so opposed it. They're certainly some degree of separation from being a dev versus a player. We have a different perspective. This is a case where I think that both the community and the developers (from a business sense, to reference Blob) would benefit from 'polling' before 'rolling' the patch. (see what I did there.)

Do you think that a poll like this would harm casuals? I don't.

Rohamad_Ali

I didn't hear any profanity in this video . Granted I wasn't listening for it either but didn't hear any . Conversation seemed civil and on topic to me .

Pandorii

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I didn't hear any profanity in this video . Granted I wasn't listening for it either but didn't hear any . Conversation seemed civil and on topic to me .

Dictator ZOS doesn't want a democratic uprising. xD jk maybe there was profanity.

Blobsky

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I didn't hear any profanity in this video . Granted I wasn't listening for it either but didn't hear any . Conversation seemed civil and on topic to me .

Appreciate it, no idea why they removed this

Xinthisis

Pandorii wrote: »

@Tandor one thing that Blob does a good job of in his video is identify some areas of potential bias. Surely there are more. He acknowledges that some kinds of questions should not be delegated to the community.

However, I truly believe that there are some aspects of the game that could be delegated to the community, and both parties could benefit (as long as we can reach a certain level of outreach so the sample is large and representative). These would likely be things that have an impact but wouldn't be totally game-changing.

For example, "do you think gear should be BoP?" This is the kind of question that I think could be posed to the community without bias.

The choice that the majority choses has no real impact on the future of the game (unless someone could make a good argument for it). It might have an impact on the in-game economy, but it won't create a new meta, FOTM, or class imbalance. It won't reduce/increase the amount that people pay in subs/crowns. It won't affect someone's decision to continue/leave the game.

In Blob's video, a strong majority voted "no" on that topic, and, although, I agree that Blob's viewers are just a subset of the community, I think that we would find similar results in the general community. We've already seen the disfavor from the forum community, but I also understand that may not be representative.

So if you can determine that the strong majority of the players prefer BoE over BoP, why would ZOS make the decision to go against popular opinion? Perhaps they didn't have the information to know that the community would be so opposed it. They're certainly some degree of separation from being a dev versus a player. We have a different perspective. This is a case where I think that both the community and the developers (from a business sense, to reference Blob) would benefit from 'polling' before 'rolling' the patch. (see what I did there.)

Do you think that a poll like this would harm casuals? I don't.

I think it would actually benefit casuals to have BOE, with the exception of a few sets. It gives people who don't have the time or energy to grind trials and delves a way to get top tier gear through other means. If you ask me I believe all gear should be BOE, but that would disvalue PVE to a massive degree. Some sets BOP and all other BOE. Keep this game alive zos, lets not make it a grind fest. It's just not fun.

Pandorii

@Xinthisis Yep! And Blob understood this idea in his video when he used the example of 'enhancing opportunities for role play.' The outcome was very different when he had the viewers consider that even though it was irrelevant for them, it would not harm them or their play style but would benefit a small subset of people (the role players) that exist in the game. People can be altruistic!

In the context of BoE, we've seen the argument that giving casuals/new player gear they didn't grind actually stimulates the social aspects of MMORPGs in a good way. Your reasoning suggests that people can consider others, not just themselves, when voting on matters like this.

Basically, I could conclude. I'm not a casual. I can grind this gear, but I can see how it would help other people (like my guild members that don't have as much time to farm), so I'm going to vote yes.

I can't see any harm in putting questions like this to the poll. In fact, I'm with Blob that even ZOS would benefit, because they would roll out changes that the strong majority is in favor with.

Edit: Note, I'm just using this question as an example for the idea of implementing polls, because it was the question that Blob rolled in his video, and I think it's good for illustration.

Gan Xing

I agree, this will also help ESO focus on certain aspects and decide what should go on the backburner and what shouldn't

raasdal

The problem is, that decisions made by Zenimax are FOR Zenimax, and not the players. They are not making gear BOP to get players to do the dungeons. They are doing it, to sell their DLC. So you can poll all you want - in most cases they do not care, as they have very specific COMPANY goals with their decisions, which does not relate to the community and what they think.

Woeler

Honestly, if you are going to implement things here after polling the entire community we'll end up with hello-kitty difficulty pve content, a deletion of Cyrodiil and DLC's solely consisting of emote packs.