Tempers, Resins and Tanners oh my!

SLaytanic

Would you like to see the ability to upgrade X amount of greens to blue, X amount of blues to purple, and X amount of purples to yellow?

carljokl

The upgrade materials are totally unrelated to each other so I don't see how they would convetable realistically. Could you convert cotton to silk or steel to oricalcum?

Sure it might be convinient. There is still a need for lots of the lower level improvement tempers as items are upgraded through each level.

If the high level materials are too rare perhaps an easier and more predictable way of getting them is in order?

Qbiken

This would ruin the economy so no. This feels just like a way for someone who having a hard time getting goldtempers to gain them faster so once again no.

altemriel

carljokl wrote: »

The upgrade materials are totally unrelated to each other so I don't see how they would convetable realistically. Could you convert cotton to silk or steel to oricalcum?

Sure it might be convinient. There is still a need for lots of the lower level improvement tempers as items are upgraded through each level.

If the high level materials are too rare perhaps an easier and more predictable way of getting them is in order?

this!!

SLaytanic

I don't believe that it would be bad for the economy. I think it would increase values of all green, blue and purple crafting items. This in turn would bring more yellow crafting items into the market which would mean more buying and selling.

Asardes

If you look at real life metallurgy, there are in fact very different substances which are added at different points
- oxidizers, reducers, stuff that precipitates slag at the smelting stage (what happens in the furnace)
- trace elements when the material has been purified to give it special characteristics (ex. chrome, vanadium, tungsten etc.)
- specific conditions for hardening the shell of the finished piece (mainly for steels, allowing the crystals to grow)
- further thermal treatment to relieve stress and make the piece less brittle (actual tempering)
- finally coatings made of different materials that add resistance (nitration, chroming)

And those are different substances which cannot be transmuted from one to the next. For example you can't make the vanadium that gives you the extra resilience or the chrome for coating the finished product out of the charcoal you need to melt and reduce the raw ore. Of course, this is a game, so you can't reproduce everything in RL. But there processes are schematically represented by the the different tempers. If they made fabricating a blade as complicated as it is in RL I'm sure the number of people who bought the game would be in the triple digits. Some measure of reality has to be kept however. The balance is OK right now. And you can "convert" the tempers now too. At the guild store.

disintegr8

There is nothing wrong with the current setup.

Netherscorn

I agree. Gold/Legendary improvements are too rare, too expensive on the market and the amount you need (even with the passive maxed) is too much at gold level. 330k gold to upgrade all 7 armor pieces is entirely ridiculous (8 per armor piece, 7 pieces, etc). Anyone who defends this and says "it's fine how it is" is just a troll and/or a bigot.

disintegr8

Netherscorn wrote: »

I agree. Gold/Legendary improvements are too rare, too expensive on the market and the amount you need (even with the passive maxed) is too much at gold level. 330k gold to upgrade all 7 armor pieces is entirely ridiculous (8 per armor piece, 7 pieces, etc). Anyone who defends this and says "it's fine how it is" is just a troll and/or a bigot.

Sorry - I am not trolling and do not believe I am a bigot.

The truth is that you have the same opportunities to get these items as everyone else does but because you don't want to do that, you think they are too rare and are too expensive and want another way to get them. If other people sell them, they had to get them from somewhere because they do not fall off trees, which means they are out there for you to get as well.

Just because your priorities are not farming for material or doing writs to get these things doesn't mean you are entitled to an easier way of getting them. Just like in life, some things are easy to come by and some things are hard to come by and it makes us appreciate the better things when we get them.

And yes, I sell improvement alloys, rosins, waxes, and the like, simply because I get more than I need without even trying and there are plenty of people out there who want them and are willing to pay for them.

Netherscorn

disintegr8 wrote: »

Netherscorn wrote: »

I agree. Gold/Legendary improvements are too rare, too expensive on the market and the amount you need (even with the passive maxed) is too much at gold level. 330k gold to upgrade all 7 armor pieces is entirely ridiculous (8 per armor piece, 7 pieces, etc). Anyone who defends this and says "it's fine how it is" is just a troll and/or a bigot.

Sorry - I am not trolling and do not believe I am a bigot.

The truth is that you have the same opportunities to get these items as everyone else does but because you don't want to do that, you think they are too rare and are too expensive and want another way to get them. If other people sell them, they had to get them from somewhere because they do not fall off trees, which means they are out there for you to get as well.

Just because your priorities are not farming for material or doing writs to get these things doesn't mean you are entitled to an easier way of getting them. Just like in life, some things are easy to come by and some things are hard to come by and it makes us appreciate the better things when we get them.

And yes, I sell improvement alloys, rosins, waxes, and the like, simply because I get more than I need without even trying and there are plenty of people out there who want them and are willing to pay for them.

You're mistaking my point for something along the lines of "woe is me, I want special treatment". Well no, that's not what I'm saying. I saying woe is *US*, everyone. I have two lines of crafting maxed out, and yes, I actually DO farm quite frequently. I deconstruct most loot I get as well. The most gold-tiered improvement items I've ever had (after a few months or so) was around 12 - enough to get ONE armor item to gold. They're too rare and everyone F'ing knows it. Fact. Furthermore, if you want to actually be useful here: how is it you're achieving such high drop rates from (whatever it is you're doing)? ...I've NEVER been able to describe my stockpile of gold mats as "more than I need". On the contrary, I have three armor sets I need 'golded' and I've only been able to improve two pieces of ONE set in the timeframe of around 3 months.

ELDARTHVADER

we already can.
you sell X amount of Green/Blue/Purple to earn Coin and then buy 1 Gold!

Nestor

Legendary Mats are supposed to be rare and difficult to get. Sure, they are desired to have, but there is no guarantee your going to be able to improve the gear you have to that level. It took me over a year to gather the Gold Mats I needed to make a full set of gear Legendary. And, I still waited another year to make any full set Legendary.

Besides, if everyone had Legendary, then it would not be Legendary, it would be Common.

wayfarerx

The only profession I would be okay with this happening to is enchanting. In all the other professions the green/blue/purple tempers are still useful in getting an item upgraded to gold, but I have no idea what to do with the 5 million Ta runes sitting in my crafting bag. Even if it was a 100:1 ratio when combining them it would give me something to do with them besides send them to @Sylance9.

Bouldercleave

If anything I would like to see the gold upgrade require 6 and not 8. I think 8 is a bit of a big jump.

With passives upgrades are 2,3,4,8 right now

In my opinion, I would like to see it at 2,3,4,6

Travy_2Hype

Upgrade one at a time really isn't much of a hassle. More of what I believe would be useful is upgrade X item to Gold starting from White and you'd consume all the materials for Green, Purple, and Gold in one sitting.

disintegr8

Netherscorn wrote: »

Furthermore, if you want to actually be useful here: how is it you're achieving such high drop rates from (whatever it is you're doing)? ...I've NEVER been able to describe my stockpile of gold mats as "more than I need". On the contrary, I have three armor sets I need 'golded' and I've only been able to improve two pieces of ONE set in the timeframe of around 3 months.

Okay, I'll be useful and provide an insight into how I have over 100 of each gold improvement item and can maintain that stock and sell 5-10 of each every week (I even donated 5 of each to one of my guilds this week).

I currently have 6 level 50 characters all maxed out in every crafting line except one who only has to finish enchanting. 4 of them do all 6 writs EVERY day (2 do Craglorn writs and 2 do Wrothgar writs), another does the 3 crafting writs to Craglorn and the last currently only does the provisioning writ to Wrothgar.

So as well as getting 5 writ rewards crates every day for every craft, each with something like a 10-20% chance of containing a gold improvement item, they also have about a 20% chance of giving me surveys. These percentages are about what I feel I get back and are not documented percentages.

One character picks up all of the survey maps and collects them every couple of days for the raw materials. The raw materials are then refined every few days, usually at least 300 and up to 600 for each craft, depending on what else I have done. The drop rate on golds from refining is about 1 in 100 on average.

Summary:
Writs per craft = 35 rewards crates a week X 10-20% drop rate = between say 3 and 7 gold improvement items per craft every week.
Raw materials from survey maps - even if I use the low figure and refine 300 raw material for each craft every 3 days, at 1% drop rate, that is still 6 gold improvement items from 600 raw material every 6 days per craft.

So at the extreme lower end of my estimates I get at least 9 of each gold improvement item every week. This takes me about 45 minutes a day to do the writs, maybe 30-45 minutes every few days to collect the survey maps, and a matter of minutes to refine the raw material while one of my characters is at a crafting station doing the writs.

Now I expect someone to go through what I have written and pick it apart but that is the way I run. I focus on writs every day as a priority and reap the rewards. On top of this I get nearly 4k gold per day from each of the 5 characters doing all the writs, so 20k gold every day as a bonus to buy any material I need for the writs if I need to. I cannot lose.

I have made three full sets of gold CP160 armour for the characters I take into PVP. All of my characters use gold CP160 weapons, any monster pieces I use are all gold. But my PVE focused characters do not even need CO160 armour, let alone armour improved to gold.

redspecter23

The gold tempers are specifically designed as a bottleneck. As much as I'd love easier access to gold tempers, I think ZoS has a firm hold on this bottleneck and won't allow any more into circulation than they intend. If they were to allow an upgrade, there would probably be cutbacks in other areas to ensure that there weren't that many more tempers in circulation anyway.

scorpiodog

Netherscorn wrote: »

I agree. Gold/Legendary improvements are too rare, too expensive on the market and the amount you need (even with the passive maxed) is too much at gold level. 330k gold to upgrade all 7 armor pieces is entirely ridiculous (8 per armor piece, 7 pieces, etc). Anyone who defends this and says "it's fine how it is" is just a troll and/or a bigot.

The Irony of this statement is astounding. Do you actually think before you write?
I suppose Gold Weapons should drop from Normal dungeons as well?

Trolalala-lala-lala

Seriously, though - gold gear should be rare - not easily obtained for everyone. But it actually is easy to get. I just have 2 skill points in hirelings for all my alts in all their crafting skills, and just get materials delivered every day to me (I log into them anyway to feed the horses). I don't even bother to do writs and I have something like 30 Kuta in my bags. With hirelings and deconstruction I'm not swimming in Gold tempers, but I have quite a bit without even trying. If I run short I'll do some writs - It's NOT DIFFICULT!!

BRogueNZ

Netherscorn wrote: »

I agree. Gold/Legendary improvements are too rare, too expensive on the market and the amount you need (even with the passive maxed) is too much at gold level. 330k gold to upgrade all 7 armor pieces is entirely ridiculous (8 per armor piece, 7 pieces, etc). Anyone who defends this and says "it's fine how it is" is just a troll and/or a bigot.

harsh-ish

Thing is, some people have a lot of everything so of course its 'why y'all complaining?'

I know that if you set goals, use sense and exercise self control nothing is out of reach.
However I'm a cynical negative creep and I know there have been enough loop holes - exploitable mechanics in the past that got well used before they were fixed. Duping.. broke mechanics, determined goal driven tradesmen and shrewd businessman, troll, bigot, cheat, exploiter, thief.. um

So sure, perhaps they have a 200 alloy and wax, 300 columbine and 500kg just sitting around taking up bank space.. whatever.. I just can't decide whether to congratulate them or bug their home and phone

juhasman

Desired things should be hard to get.

bIuhazelnut

Ehh, the option certainly does not seem game breaking, so why not? As for "breaking the economy", I don't think it would, but wouldn't care if it did -not a big fan of eso's market anyway

disintegr8

BRogueNZ wrote: »

...So sure, perhaps they have a 200 alloy and wax, 300 columbine and 500kg just sitting around taking up bank space.. whatever.. I just can't decide whether to congratulate them or bug their home and phone

Before I start, I do not think you are accusing me if cheating. As you state and per my post above, with focus on the right things it is possible to achieve anything you want in this game without cheating, which is why I enjoy it.

I have never exploited any aspect of the games mechanics, but by focusing on PVE, writs, quests, undaunted dailies, random dungeons, etc., I have saved 3.6 million in gold and have so much inventory stacked up that I do not know what to do with it all - courtesy of the crafting bag. Anyone know what I can do with 4000 fish bait, 1500 full grand soul gems or 1200 ta?

Lets face it, I have been too busy doing all of this stuff to even find out about exploits. I know that everything I have and every achievement I have attained, has been gotten honestly. I could not imaging how much gold I could have made if I had made use of exploits.

SLaytanic

I believe if a system of converting was implemented you might get an influx of yellow crafting items at first, however that would taper of shortly and the end result though would be and increase in the over all value of all green, blue and purple crafting items.

UppGRAYxDD

they should just give us more then one temp back when deconstructing a gold item....you telling me that a master blacksmith cannot use a smelter? How do you think ppl in midevil times got steel, they mined yes but mostly got it off their enemies or whatever city/village they ransacked. Here's a thought, why not give temps/mats in rewards of the worthy or at end of the campaign rewards? You know, spoils of war and such.....Or even let us loot gold off dead enemies in pvp.

Danksta

Netherscorn wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

Netherscorn wrote: »

I agree. Gold/Legendary improvements are too rare, too expensive on the market and the amount you need (even with the passive maxed) is too much at gold level. 330k gold to upgrade all 7 armor pieces is entirely ridiculous (8 per armor piece, 7 pieces, etc). Anyone who defends this and says "it's fine how it is" is just a troll and/or a bigot.

Sorry - I am not trolling and do not believe I am a bigot.

The truth is that you have the same opportunities to get these items as everyone else does but because you don't want to do that, you think they are too rare and are too expensive and want another way to get them. If other people sell them, they had to get them from somewhere because they do not fall off trees, which means they are out there for you to get as well.

Just because your priorities are not farming for material or doing writs to get these things doesn't mean you are entitled to an easier way of getting them. Just like in life, some things are easy to come by and some things are hard to come by and it makes us appreciate the better things when we get them.

And yes, I sell improvement alloys, rosins, waxes, and the like, simply because I get more than I need without even trying and there are plenty of people out there who want them and are willing to pay for them.

You're mistaking my point for something along the lines of "woe is me, I want special treatment". Well no, that's not what I'm saying. I saying woe is *US*, everyone. I have two lines of crafting maxed out, and yes, I actually DO farm quite frequently. I deconstruct most loot I get as well. The most gold-tiered improvement items I've ever had (after a few months or so) was around 12 - enough to get ONE armor item to gold. They're too rare and everyone F'ing knows it. Fact. Furthermore, if you want to actually be useful here: how is it you're achieving such high drop rates from (whatever it is you're doing)? ...I've NEVER been able to describe my stockpile of gold mats as "more than I need". On the contrary, I have three armor sets I need 'golded' and I've only been able to improve two pieces of ONE set in the timeframe of around 3 months.

And I'd say they're not too rare because I have about 100 of each, except dreugh wax because I recently used about 100.

Are they rare? Of course, they're supposed to be. Are they too rare? No. If you can't afford them that's your fault, there are plenty of ways to make gold in this game.

Zouni

I like it the way it is. Don't feel the need for any change despite my thousands of green/blue/purple mats.

Lynliselda

I would say yes for sure to this one. I have so many greens that I'm not even using.....

JKorr

wayfarerx wrote: »

The only profession I would be okay with this happening to is enchanting. In all the other professions the green/blue/purple tempers are still useful in getting an item upgraded to gold, but I have no idea what to do with the 5 million Ta runes sitting in my crafting bag. Even if it was a 100:1 ratio when combining them it would give me something to do with them besides send them to @Sylance9.

I've sent /feedback in game about the dream of getting a Mages' guild exchange where you could trade in X hundred(s) of Ta runes for 1 green, or 1 blue, or 1 purple, or or 1 gold.

I can't pass up the rune nodes, and I'm only doing the enchanting writs [the*only* time I use Ta] on one character. Last time I looked, I have 2000+. If it wasn't for the crafting bag I'd have been destroying them. I'd be thrilled to be able to trade them at whatever rate ZOS deems appropriate to get something useful. Even green and blue aren't in much demand, to be honest.

Asardes

Ta runes are only good for daily enchanter writ completion and to sell the rest to NPC for 1 gold. That's about it. Crafting glyphs with them to train your alts is not worth it. In fact crafting to deconstruct is more expensive and it's more efficient to just gather the glyphs that drop from mobs and give them to your alts to deconstruct. CP160 ones give huge inspiration and you can level them to 50 in a few weeks just from what drops. I've almost finished leveling the 5th alt enchanting this way.

xellink

expensive tempers are bad for PVP. It slows down metashifts

Akrasjel

They could decrease the amount of gold ones needed to upgrade a peace of gear by one or two