"healthy" agility jewelry versus "robust"?

azura_star

I'm on NA PC -- don't know how it is everywhere else -- but the "robust" agility jewelry is craaaaazy expensive in guild stores --

How much of a difference is it going to make if I just use the healthy versions instead?

Pandorii

Interesting question:

First, it wouldn't be wise to make gold weapon damage enchantments for agility healthy jewelry. So there might be loss is weapon damage from that. If you use healthy temporarily, it'll probably be better to enchant it with rekuta.

Second, using max stamina instead of health not only gives you sustainability, but it increases your damage output overall since max stamina is factored into the equation for calculating damage.

It's end-game, but healthy made adequate substitutes.

azura_star

Thank you, that was very well-put.

Pandorii wrote: »

it wouldn't be wise to make gold weapon damage enchantments for agility healthy jewelry.

Why is this, if I may ask? Is it just because it would be a waste of resources?

Pandorii

Yes. Not only are kutas quite expensive (though not as expensive as before), but the essence and potency runes are also a bit expensive. On PS4 NA, kutas go for about 8k, taderi go for 1k, and repora go for 1.2k.

This is entirely subjective, but I would feel like I wasted resources on temporary jewelry.

azura_star

Oh yeah, absolutely. I was just wondering if there was another, more complicated reason. Didn't mean to ask a stupid question, sorry.

AntMan100673

When I was first getting willpower jewellery for my character I got healthy rings at first due to the cost of arcane ones. Using healthy ones will be a good placeholder to get the set bonus but when you can upgrade to robust you'll notice a big difference

azura_star

AntMan100673 wrote: »

When I was first getting willpower jewellery for my character I got healthy rings at first due to the cost of arcane ones. Using healthy ones will be a good placeholder to get the set bonus but when you can upgrade to robust you'll notice a big difference

Great! thanks for the first-hand input!

leepalmer95

Also necks are cheaper than rings.

So you may want to get a robust neck first and healthy rings

SirAndy

Unless you have a dedicated healer following you around making sure you don't die from your mistakes, using the much cheaper healthy jewellery should be fine. You want to be at around 20k health with food bufs anyways.

Meaning, if you were planning on using health boost anywhere on your gear anyways, your jewellery is just as good a place as any.

azura_star

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Also necks are cheaper than rings.

So you may want to get a robust neck first and healthy rings

I actually just got my hands on one robust ring and neck and it surprisingly did not leave me destitute. I'll have to start saving for the last ring, though. In the meantime I'll just use a healthy ring in the last slot!

undefeatdgaul

If only I could figure out how to get 150k so I could buy a ring haha. I need that setup too but this thread is making me think maybe ill be ok just getting healthy for now. or a robust necklace and healthy rings like leepalmer said

DocFrost72

Tbh, it all depends on what you're doing and the health stat you want. With just three healthy accessories I'm at 18k health on my bosmer, 22 on my imperial. I like being able to take a hit and not die.

That said, if you never invest into health at all and are comfy running with 15/16k health, have at the robust. Still pulling 20-25k baseline without it.

Autolycus

It is (somewhat) common knowledge that both max stamina and weapon damage are both factors in calculating the damage output of a particular skill. Yes, there are other factors, but specifically for this post we focus on stamina and WD. They are not the same stat; they function independently from each other. Despite being two different stats, thanks to some of our mathematically-inclined forum-goers, it has been determined that roughly 10 stamina is worth 1 WD in terms of how it affects the tooltip values of any given skill. This is an approximation, but it is close enough.

That being said, let's consider the value of Robust Agility rings and necklace. Assuming cp160 and of purple quality, each one will add 840 max stamina to your pool. So, 840 x 3 = 2,250 increase to max stamina. Using our 10:1 ratio, we see here that 2,250 will have about the same increase to your damage output as adding 225 WD (which is just shy of having 2 set bonuses of WD)!

It is always tricky when trying to determine whether or not to add a max stamina here, or WD there, or to go for crit, etc. But when the question is Robust vs. Healthy, the answer is very easy: go with Robust! Remember, the added max stamina will boost the effectiveness of virtually everything you do that is stamina-based, including self-healing with Vigor and Rally. You don't want to have too little health, sure, but once you find that "sweet spot" for where your health should be (which is usually around 16-17k for most people) put everything else into offensive stats.

OldGamerESO

Autolycus wrote: »

It is always tricky when trying to determine whether or not to add a max stamina here, or WD there, or to go for crit, etc. But when the question is Robust vs. Healthy, the answer is very easy: go with Robust! Remember, the added max stamina will boost the effectiveness of virtually everything you do that is stamina-based, including self-healing with Vigor and Rally. You don't want to have too little health, sure, but once you find that "sweet spot" for where your health should be (which is usually around 16-17k for most people) put everything else into offensive stats.

But it is still a health versus main stat trade off, right? Assuming that you have "add" health to your naked build somewhere. Same issue for magicka users, the Arcane Will power jewlery is very expensive. Most DPS armor doesn't have a lot of health buffs either.

So you need to get your health up (assuming you have some buff with health food) either by:

1. +Health attributes, which means less Stamina attributes
2. +Health enchants, which means less stamina enchants
3. Set bonuses, often not on DPS sets and often not enough health
4. Perks from a few specific races
5. Undaunted passive
6. Mage guild perk

*IF* any of the choices you are going to make to get +health means less stamina then you might as well make that trade off where it is going to save you 100K gold and use Healthy jewelry. If you get all your health from food, perks, passives and sets then you should go with Robust/Arcane.

I have never been able to get enough health without spending attributes or adding +health enchants, so I went with +health alternatives and then used +Sta,/+Magicka on my armor enchant where I used to have +Health.

Autolycus

OldGamerESO wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

It is always tricky when trying to determine whether or not to add a max stamina here, or WD there, or to go for crit, etc. But when the question is Robust vs. Healthy, the answer is very easy: go with Robust! Remember, the added max stamina will boost the effectiveness of virtually everything you do that is stamina-based, including self-healing with Vigor and Rally. You don't want to have too little health, sure, but once you find that "sweet spot" for where your health should be (which is usually around 16-17k for most people) put everything else into offensive stats.

But it is still a health versus main stat trade off, right? Assuming that you have "add" health to your naked build somewhere. Same issue for magicka users, the Arcane Will power jewlery is very expensive. Most DPS armor doesn't have a lot of health buffs either.

So you need to get your health up (assuming you have some buff with health food) either by:

1. +Health attributes, which means less Stamina attributes
2. +Health enchants, which means less stamina enchants
3. Set bonuses, often not on DPS sets and often not enough health
4. Perks from a few specific races
5. Undaunted passive
6. Mage guild perk

*IF* any of the choices you are going to make to get +health means less stamina then you might as well make that trade off where it is going to save you 100K gold and use Healthy jewelry. If you get all your health from food, perks, passives and sets then you should go with Robust/Arcane.

I have never been able to get enough health without spending attributes or adding +health enchants, so I went with +health alternatives and then used +Sta,/+Magicka on my armor enchant where I used to have +Health.

I think there are more factors here to consider than what we're laying on the table, but I don't want to over-complicate the scenario either. I'm not one to over-generalize, but in most cases, and as it pertains to reaching that "minimum health threshold":
1. No +health attributes are necessary; One can go all 64 in stamina and still reach 16-17k health.
2. All 7 pieces of medium gear, meaning Undaunted Mettle only awards 2% additional health and nothing from HA passives.
3. Set bonuses are not necessary to achieve that 16-17k threshold. Some stam builds (at least prior to Velidreth) used Nerien'eith which has +health on it, and that was largely viewed as a "convenient additional health cushion." In other words, above and beyond that 16-17k, for a total of 17-18k. One thing to note here is that TBS does offer a boost to maximum health, but only on the 2-set bonus. I'd also wager that most min/maxers would trade that health for crit, WD, or max stam given the option.
4. Racial perks are nice, but still not necessary in achieving that minimum. Similar to #3 in that it will add a nice "buffer" on top.
5. Not totally sure what you mean by Mages Guild perk. I presume you mean the passive buff to health for slotting Structured Entropy? The use of this in stamina builds is virtually unheard of, as health is commonly considered a "dump stat" (which pretty much just means we only want the bare minimum to avoid one-shot mechanics, and everything else into said stat is affording no real benefit in a practical setting). Since the skill itself does nothing more for a stam build than adding health and the potential to empower a skill, it is usually foregone for something that offers higher benefits.
6. Adding one to the list, keep in mind that for every red Warrior CP spent increases your max health. The same is true for Mage points and Thief points, increasing magicka and stamina, respectively.

There are some situations in which one may desire healthy jewelry, and rightfully so. One such example would be for someone who is learning vMA. When learning the mechanics and kill priorities, it is often necessary to have that added "cushion" of health so that there's actually time to see what's going on. VMA is a high intensity, rapid succession encounter (things go quickly), and as such, having another 1-2k health can be the difference between dying to something before seeing it coming, and surviving the mechanic and moving forward.

I want to note that this perspective caters to min/maxing. There are steps to be taken by someone who is still working up to that level, or for someone who is learning. Grinding out CP is a big one, particularly because allocating those points increases your max stats (in addition to the obvious benefits that each star offers). There is in no way anything at all wrong with using healthy jewelry, especially in a learning environment and considering the costs of investing in those traits. This part is quite subjective, but my honest opinion is to keep the jewelry you've got now, which I believe you stated is something like 2 robust / 1 healthy, and roll with that until you get Vicious Ophidian.

TL;DR: Healthy traits are not necessary to obtain the "minimum health threshold." That point can be achieved simply through CP and food, for the most part. But this also assumes high CP and Undaunted Mettle, even if wearing all 7 medium for only a 2% increase to max stats from the passive. I don't doubt for a moment that anyone in this situation will eventually reach a point where they don't need anything more than a food buff. The only +health bonus that is in my stam sorc's pve build is from the 2set of TBS, all else is totally invested in stamina, WD, crit%, crit damage. She sits comfortably at 17.1k health.

undefeatdgaul

Autolycus wrote: »

OldGamerESO wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

It is always tricky when trying to determine whether or not to add a max stamina here, or WD there, or to go for crit, etc. But when the question is Robust vs. Healthy, the answer is very easy: go with Robust! Remember, the added max stamina will boost the effectiveness of virtually everything you do that is stamina-based, including self-healing with Vigor and Rally. You don't want to have too little health, sure, but once you find that "sweet spot" for where your health should be (which is usually around 16-17k for most people) put everything else into offensive stats.

But it is still a health versus main stat trade off, right? Assuming that you have "add" health to your naked build somewhere. Same issue for magicka users, the Arcane Will power jewlery is very expensive. Most DPS armor doesn't have a lot of health buffs either.

So you need to get your health up (assuming you have some buff with health food) either by:

1. +Health attributes, which means less Stamina attributes
2. +Health enchants, which means less stamina enchants
3. Set bonuses, often not on DPS sets and often not enough health
4. Perks from a few specific races
5. Undaunted passive
6. Mage guild perk

*IF* any of the choices you are going to make to get +health means less stamina then you might as well make that trade off where it is going to save you 100K gold and use Healthy jewelry. If you get all your health from food, perks, passives and sets then you should go with Robust/Arcane.

I have never been able to get enough health without spending attributes or adding +health enchants, so I went with +health alternatives and then used +Sta,/+Magicka on my armor enchant where I used to have +Health.

I think there are more factors here to consider than what we're laying on the table, but I don't want to over-complicate the scenario either. I'm not one to over-generalize, but in most cases, and as it pertains to reaching that "minimum health threshold":
1. No +health attributes are necessary; One can go all 64 in stamina and still reach 16-17k health.
2. All 7 pieces of medium gear, meaning Undaunted Mettle only awards 2% additional health and nothing from HA passives.
3. Set bonuses are not necessary to achieve that 16-17k threshold. Some stam builds (at least prior to Velidreth) used Nerien'eith which has +health on it, and that was largely viewed as a "convenient additional health cushion." In other words, above and beyond that 16-17k, for a total of 17-18k. One thing to note here is that TBS does offer a boost to maximum health, but only on the 2-set bonus. I'd also wager that most min/maxers would trade that health for crit, WD, or max stam given the option.
4. Racial perks are nice, but still not necessary in achieving that minimum. Similar to #3 in that it will add a nice "buffer" on top.
5. Not totally sure what you mean by Mages Guild perk. I presume you mean the passive buff to health for slotting Structured Entropy? The use of this in stamina builds is virtually unheard of, as health is commonly considered a "dump stat" (which pretty much just means we only want the bare minimum to avoid one-shot mechanics, and everything else into said stat is affording no real benefit in a practical setting). Since the skill itself does nothing more for a stam build than adding health and the potential to empower a skill, it is usually foregone for something that offers higher benefits.
6. Adding one to the list, keep in mind that for every red Warrior CP spent increases your max health. The same is true for Mage points and Thief points, increasing magicka and stamina, respectively.

There are some situations in which one may desire healthy jewelry, and rightfully so. One such example would be for someone who is learning vMA. When learning the mechanics and kill priorities, it is often necessary to have that added "cushion" of health so that there's actually time to see what's going on. VMA is a high intensity, rapid succession encounter (things go quickly), and as such, having another 1-2k health can be the difference between dying to something before seeing it coming, and surviving the mechanic and moving forward.

I want to note that this perspective caters to min/maxing. There are steps to be taken by someone who is still working up to that level, or for someone who is learning. Grinding out CP is a big one, particularly because allocating those points increases your max stats (in addition to the obvious benefits that each star offers). There is in no way anything at all wrong with using healthy jewelry, especially in a learning environment and considering the costs of investing in those traits. This part is quite subjective, but my honest opinion is to keep the jewelry you've got now, which I believe you stated is something like 2 robust / 1 healthy, and roll with that until you get Vicious Ophidian.

TL;DR: Healthy traits are not necessary to obtain the "minimum health threshold." That point can be achieved simply through CP and food, for the most part. But this also assumes high CP and Undaunted Mettle, even if wearing all 7 medium for only a 2% increase to max stats from the passive. I don't doubt for a moment that anyone in this situation will eventually reach a point where they don't need anything more than a food buff. The only +health bonus that is in my stam sorc's pve build is from the 2set of TBS, all else is totally invested in stamina, WD, crit%, crit damage. She sits comfortably at 17.1k health.

how would one achieve 16-17k health with no health attributes added onto gear? I am a 240CP Stamplar. I use all medium Hundings/Nightmother now with stamina enchants, I havent been able to get agility set of jewelry yet due to the price but my health isnt even 14k its like 13.95? Im an imperial & I have all the relevant passives. I cant figure it out I dont want to miss out on extra stamina & weapon damage going to at least some pieces of healthy but I could REALLY use an extra 2k health and im not sure what Im missing

thanks

Autolycus

undefeatdgaul wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

OldGamerESO wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

It is always tricky when trying to determine whether or not to add a max stamina here, or WD there, or to go for crit, etc. But when the question is Robust vs. Healthy, the answer is very easy: go with Robust! Remember, the added max stamina will boost the effectiveness of virtually everything you do that is stamina-based, including self-healing with Vigor and Rally. You don't want to have too little health, sure, but once you find that "sweet spot" for where your health should be (which is usually around 16-17k for most people) put everything else into offensive stats.

But it is still a health versus main stat trade off, right? Assuming that you have "add" health to your naked build somewhere. Same issue for magicka users, the Arcane Will power jewlery is very expensive. Most DPS armor doesn't have a lot of health buffs either.

So you need to get your health up (assuming you have some buff with health food) either by:

1. +Health attributes, which means less Stamina attributes
2. +Health enchants, which means less stamina enchants
3. Set bonuses, often not on DPS sets and often not enough health
4. Perks from a few specific races
5. Undaunted passive
6. Mage guild perk

*IF* any of the choices you are going to make to get +health means less stamina then you might as well make that trade off where it is going to save you 100K gold and use Healthy jewelry. If you get all your health from food, perks, passives and sets then you should go with Robust/Arcane.

I have never been able to get enough health without spending attributes or adding +health enchants, so I went with +health alternatives and then used +Sta,/+Magicka on my armor enchant where I used to have +Health.

I think there are more factors here to consider than what we're laying on the table, but I don't want to over-complicate the scenario either. I'm not one to over-generalize, but in most cases, and as it pertains to reaching that "minimum health threshold":
1. No +health attributes are necessary; One can go all 64 in stamina and still reach 16-17k health.
2. All 7 pieces of medium gear, meaning Undaunted Mettle only awards 2% additional health and nothing from HA passives.
3. Set bonuses are not necessary to achieve that 16-17k threshold. Some stam builds (at least prior to Velidreth) used Nerien'eith which has +health on it, and that was largely viewed as a "convenient additional health cushion." In other words, above and beyond that 16-17k, for a total of 17-18k. One thing to note here is that TBS does offer a boost to maximum health, but only on the 2-set bonus. I'd also wager that most min/maxers would trade that health for crit, WD, or max stam given the option.
4. Racial perks are nice, but still not necessary in achieving that minimum. Similar to #3 in that it will add a nice "buffer" on top.
5. Not totally sure what you mean by Mages Guild perk. I presume you mean the passive buff to health for slotting Structured Entropy? The use of this in stamina builds is virtually unheard of, as health is commonly considered a "dump stat" (which pretty much just means we only want the bare minimum to avoid one-shot mechanics, and everything else into said stat is affording no real benefit in a practical setting). Since the skill itself does nothing more for a stam build than adding health and the potential to empower a skill, it is usually foregone for something that offers higher benefits.
6. Adding one to the list, keep in mind that for every red Warrior CP spent increases your max health. The same is true for Mage points and Thief points, increasing magicka and stamina, respectively.

There are some situations in which one may desire healthy jewelry, and rightfully so. One such example would be for someone who is learning vMA. When learning the mechanics and kill priorities, it is often necessary to have that added "cushion" of health so that there's actually time to see what's going on. VMA is a high intensity, rapid succession encounter (things go quickly), and as such, having another 1-2k health can be the difference between dying to something before seeing it coming, and surviving the mechanic and moving forward.

I want to note that this perspective caters to min/maxing. There are steps to be taken by someone who is still working up to that level, or for someone who is learning. Grinding out CP is a big one, particularly because allocating those points increases your max stats (in addition to the obvious benefits that each star offers). There is in no way anything at all wrong with using healthy jewelry, especially in a learning environment and considering the costs of investing in those traits. This part is quite subjective, but my honest opinion is to keep the jewelry you've got now, which I believe you stated is something like 2 robust / 1 healthy, and roll with that until you get Vicious Ophidian.

TL;DR: Healthy traits are not necessary to obtain the "minimum health threshold." That point can be achieved simply through CP and food, for the most part. But this also assumes high CP and Undaunted Mettle, even if wearing all 7 medium for only a 2% increase to max stats from the passive. I don't doubt for a moment that anyone in this situation will eventually reach a point where they don't need anything more than a food buff. The only +health bonus that is in my stam sorc's pve build is from the 2set of TBS, all else is totally invested in stamina, WD, crit%, crit damage. She sits comfortably at 17.1k health.

how would one achieve 16-17k health with no health attributes added onto gear? I am a 240CP Stamplar. I use all medium Hundings/Nightmother now with stamina enchants, I havent been able to get agility set of jewelry yet due to the price but my health isnt even 14k its like 13.95? Im an imperial & I have all the relevant passives. I cant figure it out I dont want to miss out on extra stamina & weapon damage going to at least some pieces of healthy but I could REALLY use an extra 2k health and im not sure what Im missing

thanks

CP is a big part of it. I'd probably need someone to confirm this to be sure since I don't remember off the top of my head, and can't login to test atm, but I think for every single Warrior point you allocate in CP, you get something like 10 health. So, if you take the CP cap 531 minus current CP 240, the result is 291. We multiply this by 10 to see how much extra health you will get just by allocating those CP, which is roughly 2,910. Note also that this is an increase to your base health, which means any % increases come into play after this, such as Undaunted Mettle, and Imperial health bonuses. Your ~14k current health pool accounts for those health bonuses already, so we'd technically need to back into the numbers before adding in the health from CP. But, this is close enough to illustrate the concept. After you have the rest of your CP, that by itself should put you over 17k.

On a semi-related note, doing your random dungeon dailies is a good way to grind out your CP. Keep in mind that your random dailies are character-specific, so you can do these randoms on each of your characters, and each of them will earn experience towards the same CP pool. For those that have vMA experience and are able to routine complete it, it is also a very good source of CP experience.

Edit: My maths here aren't quite right. I did a little more looking into the health bonus for allocating Warrior points and it's not linear as I suggested. The end result is similar, in that you will be able to reach that "minimum health threshold" without attribute points in almost all cases. I just wanted to disclose that this isn't not the exact maths, but don't intend to fix it because we are just illustrating a concept here, so the exact calculation doesn't matter much.

susmitds

Autolycus wrote: »

undefeatdgaul wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

OldGamerESO wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

It is always tricky when trying to determine whether or not to add a max stamina here, or WD there, or to go for crit, etc. But when the question is Robust vs. Healthy, the answer is very easy: go with Robust! Remember, the added max stamina will boost the effectiveness of virtually everything you do that is stamina-based, including self-healing with Vigor and Rally. You don't want to have too little health, sure, but once you find that "sweet spot" for where your health should be (which is usually around 16-17k for most people) put everything else into offensive stats.

But it is still a health versus main stat trade off, right? Assuming that you have "add" health to your naked build somewhere. Same issue for magicka users, the Arcane Will power jewlery is very expensive. Most DPS armor doesn't have a lot of health buffs either.

So you need to get your health up (assuming you have some buff with health food) either by:

1. +Health attributes, which means less Stamina attributes
2. +Health enchants, which means less stamina enchants
3. Set bonuses, often not on DPS sets and often not enough health
4. Perks from a few specific races
5. Undaunted passive
6. Mage guild perk

*IF* any of the choices you are going to make to get +health means less stamina then you might as well make that trade off where it is going to save you 100K gold and use Healthy jewelry. If you get all your health from food, perks, passives and sets then you should go with Robust/Arcane.

I have never been able to get enough health without spending attributes or adding +health enchants, so I went with +health alternatives and then used +Sta,/+Magicka on my armor enchant where I used to have +Health.

I think there are more factors here to consider than what we're laying on the table, but I don't want to over-complicate the scenario either. I'm not one to over-generalize, but in most cases, and as it pertains to reaching that "minimum health threshold":
1. No +health attributes are necessary; One can go all 64 in stamina and still reach 16-17k health.
2. All 7 pieces of medium gear, meaning Undaunted Mettle only awards 2% additional health and nothing from HA passives.
3. Set bonuses are not necessary to achieve that 16-17k threshold. Some stam builds (at least prior to Velidreth) used Nerien'eith which has +health on it, and that was largely viewed as a "convenient additional health cushion." In other words, above and beyond that 16-17k, for a total of 17-18k. One thing to note here is that TBS does offer a boost to maximum health, but only on the 2-set bonus. I'd also wager that most min/maxers would trade that health for crit, WD, or max stam given the option.
4. Racial perks are nice, but still not necessary in achieving that minimum. Similar to #3 in that it will add a nice "buffer" on top.
5. Not totally sure what you mean by Mages Guild perk. I presume you mean the passive buff to health for slotting Structured Entropy? The use of this in stamina builds is virtually unheard of, as health is commonly considered a "dump stat" (which pretty much just means we only want the bare minimum to avoid one-shot mechanics, and everything else into said stat is affording no real benefit in a practical setting). Since the skill itself does nothing more for a stam build than adding health and the potential to empower a skill, it is usually foregone for something that offers higher benefits.
6. Adding one to the list, keep in mind that for every red Warrior CP spent increases your max health. The same is true for Mage points and Thief points, increasing magicka and stamina, respectively.

There are some situations in which one may desire healthy jewelry, and rightfully so. One such example would be for someone who is learning vMA. When learning the mechanics and kill priorities, it is often necessary to have that added "cushion" of health so that there's actually time to see what's going on. VMA is a high intensity, rapid succession encounter (things go quickly), and as such, having another 1-2k health can be the difference between dying to something before seeing it coming, and surviving the mechanic and moving forward.

I want to note that this perspective caters to min/maxing. There are steps to be taken by someone who is still working up to that level, or for someone who is learning. Grinding out CP is a big one, particularly because allocating those points increases your max stats (in addition to the obvious benefits that each star offers). There is in no way anything at all wrong with using healthy jewelry, especially in a learning environment and considering the costs of investing in those traits. This part is quite subjective, but my honest opinion is to keep the jewelry you've got now, which I believe you stated is something like 2 robust / 1 healthy, and roll with that until you get Vicious Ophidian.

TL;DR: Healthy traits are not necessary to obtain the "minimum health threshold." That point can be achieved simply through CP and food, for the most part. But this also assumes high CP and Undaunted Mettle, even if wearing all 7 medium for only a 2% increase to max stats from the passive. I don't doubt for a moment that anyone in this situation will eventually reach a point where they don't need anything more than a food buff. The only +health bonus that is in my stam sorc's pve build is from the 2set of TBS, all else is totally invested in stamina, WD, crit%, crit damage. She sits comfortably at 17.1k health.

how would one achieve 16-17k health with no health attributes added onto gear? I am a 240CP Stamplar. I use all medium Hundings/Nightmother now with stamina enchants, I havent been able to get agility set of jewelry yet due to the price but my health isnt even 14k its like 13.95? Im an imperial & I have all the relevant passives. I cant figure it out I dont want to miss out on extra stamina & weapon damage going to at least some pieces of healthy but I could REALLY use an extra 2k health and im not sure what Im missing

thanks

CP is a big part of it. I'd probably need someone to confirm this to be sure since I don't remember off the top of my head, and can't login to test atm, but I think for every single Warrior point you allocate in CP, you get something like 10 health. So, if you take the CP cap 531 minus current CP 240, the result is 291. We multiply this by 10 to see how much extra health you will get just by allocating those CP, which is roughly 2,910. Note also that this is an increase to your base health, which means any % increases come into play after this, such as Undaunted Mettle, and Imperial health bonuses.

You are talking about food buffed HP right?

Without any bonus to HP, with food, you will have 15.2-15.9k HP, as long as you have the undaunted passive.

Autolycus

susmitds wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

undefeatdgaul wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

OldGamerESO wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

It is always tricky when trying to determine whether or not to add a max stamina here, or WD there, or to go for crit, etc. But when the question is Robust vs. Healthy, the answer is very easy: go with Robust! Remember, the added max stamina will boost the effectiveness of virtually everything you do that is stamina-based, including self-healing with Vigor and Rally. You don't want to have too little health, sure, but once you find that "sweet spot" for where your health should be (which is usually around 16-17k for most people) put everything else into offensive stats.

But it is still a health versus main stat trade off, right? Assuming that you have "add" health to your naked build somewhere. Same issue for magicka users, the Arcane Will power jewlery is very expensive. Most DPS armor doesn't have a lot of health buffs either.

So you need to get your health up (assuming you have some buff with health food) either by:

1. +Health attributes, which means less Stamina attributes
2. +Health enchants, which means less stamina enchants
3. Set bonuses, often not on DPS sets and often not enough health
4. Perks from a few specific races
5. Undaunted passive
6. Mage guild perk

*IF* any of the choices you are going to make to get +health means less stamina then you might as well make that trade off where it is going to save you 100K gold and use Healthy jewelry. If you get all your health from food, perks, passives and sets then you should go with Robust/Arcane.

I have never been able to get enough health without spending attributes or adding +health enchants, so I went with +health alternatives and then used +Sta,/+Magicka on my armor enchant where I used to have +Health.

I think there are more factors here to consider than what we're laying on the table, but I don't want to over-complicate the scenario either. I'm not one to over-generalize, but in most cases, and as it pertains to reaching that "minimum health threshold":
1. No +health attributes are necessary; One can go all 64 in stamina and still reach 16-17k health.
2. All 7 pieces of medium gear, meaning Undaunted Mettle only awards 2% additional health and nothing from HA passives.
3. Set bonuses are not necessary to achieve that 16-17k threshold. Some stam builds (at least prior to Velidreth) used Nerien'eith which has +health on it, and that was largely viewed as a "convenient additional health cushion." In other words, above and beyond that 16-17k, for a total of 17-18k. One thing to note here is that TBS does offer a boost to maximum health, but only on the 2-set bonus. I'd also wager that most min/maxers would trade that health for crit, WD, or max stam given the option.
4. Racial perks are nice, but still not necessary in achieving that minimum. Similar to #3 in that it will add a nice "buffer" on top.
5. Not totally sure what you mean by Mages Guild perk. I presume you mean the passive buff to health for slotting Structured Entropy? The use of this in stamina builds is virtually unheard of, as health is commonly considered a "dump stat" (which pretty much just means we only want the bare minimum to avoid one-shot mechanics, and everything else into said stat is affording no real benefit in a practical setting). Since the skill itself does nothing more for a stam build than adding health and the potential to empower a skill, it is usually foregone for something that offers higher benefits.
6. Adding one to the list, keep in mind that for every red Warrior CP spent increases your max health. The same is true for Mage points and Thief points, increasing magicka and stamina, respectively.

There are some situations in which one may desire healthy jewelry, and rightfully so. One such example would be for someone who is learning vMA. When learning the mechanics and kill priorities, it is often necessary to have that added "cushion" of health so that there's actually time to see what's going on. VMA is a high intensity, rapid succession encounter (things go quickly), and as such, having another 1-2k health can be the difference between dying to something before seeing it coming, and surviving the mechanic and moving forward.

I want to note that this perspective caters to min/maxing. There are steps to be taken by someone who is still working up to that level, or for someone who is learning. Grinding out CP is a big one, particularly because allocating those points increases your max stats (in addition to the obvious benefits that each star offers). There is in no way anything at all wrong with using healthy jewelry, especially in a learning environment and considering the costs of investing in those traits. This part is quite subjective, but my honest opinion is to keep the jewelry you've got now, which I believe you stated is something like 2 robust / 1 healthy, and roll with that until you get Vicious Ophidian.

TL;DR: Healthy traits are not necessary to obtain the "minimum health threshold." That point can be achieved simply through CP and food, for the most part. But this also assumes high CP and Undaunted Mettle, even if wearing all 7 medium for only a 2% increase to max stats from the passive. I don't doubt for a moment that anyone in this situation will eventually reach a point where they don't need anything more than a food buff. The only +health bonus that is in my stam sorc's pve build is from the 2set of TBS, all else is totally invested in stamina, WD, crit%, crit damage. She sits comfortably at 17.1k health.

how would one achieve 16-17k health with no health attributes added onto gear? I am a 240CP Stamplar. I use all medium Hundings/Nightmother now with stamina enchants, I havent been able to get agility set of jewelry yet due to the price but my health isnt even 14k its like 13.95? Im an imperial & I have all the relevant passives. I cant figure it out I dont want to miss out on extra stamina & weapon damage going to at least some pieces of healthy but I could REALLY use an extra 2k health and im not sure what Im missing

thanks

CP is a big part of it. I'd probably need someone to confirm this to be sure since I don't remember off the top of my head, and can't login to test atm, but I think for every single Warrior point you allocate in CP, you get something like 10 health. So, if you take the CP cap 531 minus current CP 240, the result is 291. We multiply this by 10 to see how much extra health you will get just by allocating those CP, which is roughly 2,910. Note also that this is an increase to your base health, which means any % increases come into play after this, such as Undaunted Mettle, and Imperial health bonuses.

You are talking about food buffed HP right?

Without any bonus to HP, with food, you will have 15.2-15.9k HP, as long as you have the undaunted passive.

Yes, accounting for food buff. It's a long road to getting all of the CP and the desired passives, but eventually, each class should be able to achieve that health threshold with only food; no healthy traits, no attributes in health, etc. CP is a big part of it. I believe you are correct; taking out all buffs (and depending on race, sometimes even taking out Undaunted Mettle) most people sit around that 15.2-15.9k HP range with only food, but this still assumes a high CP count.

undefeatdgaul

Oh sorry I meant my health was under 14k unbuffed, and thank you for the advice. I guess I just have to grind out some more CP! For daily dungeons you mean the undaunted pledges right?

Autolycus

undefeatdgaul wrote: »

Oh sorry I meant my health was under 14k unbuffed, and thank you for the advice. I guess I just have to grind out some more CP! For daily dungeons you mean the undaunted pledges right?

Actually I meant using the dungeon finder for a "random veteran dungeon" or "random normal dungeon." The first complete for each awards a nice chunk of exp and can be done for the "first time" on each individual character each day, but they all contribute their exp towards the same CP pool, so it's one of the faster methods to quickly boost CP.

Since Group Finder is so shoddy, I recommend using zone chat (or your guild) to pre-fill a random dungeon group, then once all four of you are in group (ensuring that at least one of each role is selected of course, or it won't queue you) then queue up for the random.

If you're super lucky, the random dungeon it puts you into will also be the pledge! Two birds with one stone!

I probably should have clarified a bit better too on what "unbuffed" meant. I've seen/heard many suggest that we should take food out of the equation when we claim "unbuffed." I don't really cater to that preference; I recognize why some suggest it and that's fine, it's really just a matter of preference imho. In practice, there is virtually no form of pve content where you wouldn't want to have an active food buff, and I don't know anybody personally who uses a food that doesn't have a health bonus to it (I even use food when I'm leveling, I simply use Orzorga's blue food though b/c it scales to your level, therefore it never needs to be replaced while leveling). So imho, "unbuffed" means with only the food you would normally use, and no other active buffs. Undaunted Mettle is a passive buff; once you have it and your gear is equipped, it naturally becomes part of the "unbuffed" quote. When discussing these concepts on the forums, it is important to disclose passive buffs like that, else I think most people here would assume that Undaunted Mettle is already factored into the number given (we assume you have it), or would at least double-check to know for sure if it's factored in.

Danksta

I'd just get robust endurance jewelry and use weapon damage enchantments. In fact, I almost prefer it if I'm not getting a health bonus from armor sets or racial passives, because it get you up to roughly 18k health.

phreatophile

I use robust for my Imperial, healthy on my Khajiit and my Bosmer.

The difference in gold between the two is between $300K and $400K.

Races without any max health bonus benefit greatly from a little extra health.

With an excellent group you can get by with 16K max health with food buff, but most of us don't always have an excellent group or aren't so excellent ourselves so 18K is a better target.

undefeatdgaul

Autolycus wrote: »

undefeatdgaul wrote: »

Oh sorry I meant my health was under 14k unbuffed, and thank you for the advice. I guess I just have to grind out some more CP! For daily dungeons you mean the undaunted pledges right?

Actually I meant using the dungeon finder for a "random veteran dungeon" or "random normal dungeon." The first complete for each awards a nice chunk of exp and can be done for the "first time" on each individual character each day, but they all contribute their exp towards the same CP pool, so it's one of the faster methods to quickly boost CP.

Since Group Finder is so shoddy, I recommend using zone chat (or your guild) to pre-fill a random dungeon group, then once all four of you are in group (ensuring that at least one of each role is selected of course, or it won't queue you) then queue up for the random.

If you're super lucky, the random dungeon it puts you into will also be the pledge! Two birds with one stone!

I probably should have clarified a bit better too on what "unbuffed" meant. I've seen/heard many suggest that we should take food out of the equation when we claim "unbuffed." I don't really cater to that preference; I recognize why some suggest it and that's fine, it's really just a matter of preference imho. In practice, there is virtually no form of pve content where you wouldn't want to have an active food buff, and I don't know anybody personally who uses a food that doesn't have a health bonus to it (I even use food when I'm leveling, I simply use Orzorga's blue food though b/c it scales to your level, therefore it never needs to be replaced while leveling). So imho, "unbuffed" means with only the food you would normally use, and no other active buffs. Undaunted Mettle is a passive buff; once you have it and your gear is equipped, it naturally becomes part of the "unbuffed" quote. When discussing these concepts on the forums, it is important to disclose passive buffs like that, else I think most people here would assume that Undaunted Mettle is already factored into the number given (we assume you have it).

oh ok thank you for explaining that, no my health is with nothing at all, no food and no undaunted mettle ( I use all medium armor)

ill definitely start jumping in those dungeons too!

thanks alot

kylewwefan

More Max stam/magica whatever your class is, makes you hit harder. If you can survive and sustain and kill stuff before it kills you great!

Having less than 18k health makes you very squishy and die a lot. Hitting very hard for 15 seconds and then being drained is not so great either.

Wrecking blow/LA spam = 10k DPS if you're good! Dots are great! Caltrops can be quite expensive on the resources. Shoot for 1500+ on stamina recovery. I saw someone mentioned endurance set. It's good also. 200 weapon damage isn't gonna make or break any build imo.

Waffennacht

Yeah people got into the math deep.

If you wanna be cheap

Go for healthy until you can afford robust