Hybrid viability/Spellsword skill line

serenity_painted

Well we all know they are sadly dead since they removed soft caps but I can't be the only one who really misses mixing melee weapons with magic? It's not only a theme i miss but you miss out on many fun spells that are exclusive to a ranged/staff play style.I can't speak for everyone but what i find fun about hybrids like that is the melee combat and the effects/utility of spells is both the visuals and mechanics, doubly so for ESO since going stam means you're going to miss out on most of your class skills. It's also something i really loved about the other TES games so it's a shame it doesn't work in this one. It seems ZOS are trying to sort of support it/bring it back with sets like Pelenials but it's not only hard to get/expensive but i haven't seen any builds where using this would be even close to a dedicated stam/mag build, atleast for PvE.

But what is a solution to this then? I mean there's little to no chance they're gonna reintroduce soft caps since it would mean they'd have to go over and readjust the entire world of PvE so why not a new skill line, a sort of destruction staff like skill line for melee with a weapon?
A skill line where you only use a one handed weapon where attacks use and scale from magicka would allow us to stab things in the face while still having access to our arsenal of class skills, it would also give ZoS a better overview and more control over balance since less combinations are availible, also less work for them. And frankly, after 2 years the game could make do with some new skills to play with.

Do you have anything to add to the idea? Your own idea or a better sollution? A working hybrid build that you love? Discuss.

dodgehopper_ESO

Pelinal's is the closest we've got, you're right. I'd like to point out it feels to me like Pelinals is more about being a tank too, or tanky dps. You'll still not get the kinds of numbers that a dedicated dps build would have, but it can still be cool.

serenity_painted

Yeah it's a shame, best build i found was a Templar PvP build. It was still mostly stam but it beefed up his Jesus beam and dots. Really don't see that sort of thing work in PvE.

Something i want to add is without the hybrids, builds are so frickin homogenized now. I mean, all stam dps play almost identical since it's just a few skills that set them apart. Gets a bit dull after awhile. A million and one skills but not many actual options.

Jar_Ek

A spell blade line would be good, it could be done as bound weapon summons, mixed with melee focused magic abilities. However that is not a hybrid, that is just a new magicka weapon skill line.

A true hybrid line would be a battlemage line that had passives that supported a hybridisation with abilities such as one that amplifies the power of an ability based on the disparity between the two resources (ie no disparity equals higher power boost), or a cost reduction ability if the two resources are matched that drops off the less matched they are, or a boost to the other resources abilities when the first is low (ie if magicka is at sub Y% then stamina abilities get X% more powerful).

UltimaJoe777

If people don't make hybrids because of stats then a skill line isn't going to change that. In order to get hybrid on par with specialty soft caps ARE needed, but in the meantime I find hybrids can be perfectly viable with Pelinal set.

Chrlynsch

My hybrid completes VMA no problem and is a beast in pvp

Doctordarkspawn

Prothwata wrote: »

My hybrid completes VMA no problem and is a beast in pvp

Pics/build/video or it didn't happen.

I'd like to see ZOS give more love to the hybrids though, their struggling to find their place, and have been ever since the softcaps were removed.

UltimaJoe777

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Prothwata wrote: »

My hybrid completes VMA no problem and is a beast in pvp

Pics/build/video or it didn't happen.

I'd like to see ZOS give more love to the hybrids though, their struggling to find their place, and have been ever since the softcaps were removed.

Why is it hard to believe? vMA isn't really as big a milestone as it used to be anymore. Also depends on his race and class.

Doctordarkspawn

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Prothwata wrote: »

My hybrid completes VMA no problem and is a beast in pvp

Pics/build/video or it didn't happen.

I'd like to see ZOS give more love to the hybrids though, their struggling to find their place, and have been ever since the softcaps were removed.

Why is it hard to believe? vMA isn't really as big a milestone as it used to be anymore. Also depends on his race and class.

S'not very hard to believe, but I'm not going to actually believe it until I know what he was running when he beat it.

Doctordarkspawn

Jar_Ek wrote: »

A spell blade line would be good, it could be done as bound weapon summons, mixed with melee focused magic abilities. However that is not a hybrid, that is just a new magicka weapon skill line.

A true hybrid line would be a battlemage line that had passives that supported a hybridisation with abilities such as one that amplifies the power of an ability based on the disparity between the two resources (ie no disparity equals higher power boost), or a cost reduction ability if the two resources are matched that drops off the less matched they are, or a boost to the other resources abilities when the first is low (ie if magicka is at sub Y% then stamina abilities get X% more powerful).

I would like to see hybriziation indulged. Specifically I'd love to see what It'd do to tanks.

UltimaJoe777

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Prothwata wrote: »

My hybrid completes VMA no problem and is a beast in pvp

Pics/build/video or it didn't happen.

I'd like to see ZOS give more love to the hybrids though, their struggling to find their place, and have been ever since the softcaps were removed.

Why is it hard to believe? vMA isn't really as big a milestone as it used to be anymore. Also depends on his race and class.

S'not very hard to believe, but I'm not going to actually believe it until I know what he was running when he beat it.

Well have fun with that.

serenity_painted

Prothwata wrote: »

My hybrid completes VMA no problem and is a beast in pvp

Is it a secret build? Why don't you let others bask in it's awsome?

serenity_painted

Jar_Ek wrote: »

A spell blade line would be good, it could be done as bound weapon summons, mixed with melee focused magic abilities. However that is not a hybrid, that is just a new magicka weapon skill line.

A true hybrid line would be a battlemage line that had passives that supported a hybridisation with abilities such as one that amplifies the power of an ability based on the disparity between the two resources (ie no disparity equals higher power boost), or a cost reduction ability if the two resources are matched that drops off the less matched they are, or a boost to the other resources abilities when the first is low (ie if magicka is at sub Y% then stamina abilities get X% more powerful).

That does sound interesting, and could even be added purely as a passive like like TG or DB though that would be bit of a bummer. I like the latter but could open for some possibly OP combinations, like say a sorc that spends all his stam and unleashes a 50 megaton Crystal Shard.

Jar_Ek

@serenity_painted Well I was envisioning maybe minor sorcery buff at X% or less stamina and minor brutality at X% magicka, so the mega-frag would be limited by the buff system somewhat. Then whole line could be predicated on having a max stamina and max magicka within 10% of each other as well which would heavily limit its applicability to hybrids only (not my preferred solution).

Other ideas could be:
Gain minor berserk when under X% health (not necessarily battlemage specific, more berserker)
Gain a regen bonus to both magicka and stamina when your bar consist of 3 magicka and 2 stamina abilities (or visa-versa).

Personally I suspect that active abilities would be really hard for this type of skill line as anything you built would probably make a pure build more powerful than a hybrid unless a hybrid caveat was applied (ie effectiveness is scaled based on resource similarity). But you could have abilities that used both magicka and stamina as a resource cost and used a different calculation formula for damage (such as highest of weapon or spell power + 50% of lowest but no gain from resource [ie no damage component from max stamina or magicka])

Anyway a few more.thoughts for ya.

Jar_Ek

Just for curiosity, what is the general view on what a hybrid ? Is it anything that isn't all points and glyphs into one resource plus a bit of health or is it more nuanced?

PS4_ZeColmeia

So I've been doing a few different builds with pelinals. It can work, but you need an insane number of skill points and access to high level dropped sets. This isn't an easy or cheap build to pull off.

@Jar_Ek my definition is someone that uses skills from both resource pools for damage.

ZakuBeta

Without softcaps, they need to reduce the effect that stacking all resources into one stat has on the damage. Yes it should have some effect, but not as much as it currently has, or introduce strength and intelligence stats that effect damage, and stamina/magicka effect the resource pool.

Jade1986

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

If people don't make hybrids because of stats then a skill line isn't going to change that. In order to get hybrid on par with specialty soft caps ARE needed, but in the meantime I find hybrids can be perfectly viable with Pelinal set.

Soft caps are not needed. They just need to make it so s/m do not dictate the amount of damage you do. It should be the combination of s / m that dictate how much damage you do.

UltimaJoe777

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Just for curiosity, what is the general view on what a hybrid ? Is it anything that isn't all points and glyphs into one resource plus a bit of health or is it more nuanced?

People tend to have different perspectives on what makes a build hybrid, but it's generally a mix of physical and magical attacks used at least almost equally on the same build.

LadyNalcarya

Magplar with dual wield and destro staff offbar is close to the spellsword archetype imo.
You wont use any weapon skills though, just normal attack weaving.

Jar_Ek

For the record I always assumed a hybrid had roughly equivalent capability with stamina and magicka abilities - so damage, healing and shielding. But I get the feeling sometimes that others have a different view.

UltimaJoe777

Jar_Ek wrote: »

For the record I always assumed a hybrid had roughly equivalent capability with stamina and magicka abilities - so damage, healing and shielding. But I get the feeling sometimes that others have a different view.

This COULD be plausible if Healing and Damage Shields were more Stamina-friendly. A hybrid would use Magicka-based heals and shields as all Stamina gets is Momentum, Vigor, and Bone Shield, the latter of which relies on Health and only costs Stamina.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Pelinal's is the closest we've got, you're right. I'd like to point out it feels to me like Pelinals is more about being a tank too, or tanky dps. You'll still not get the kinds of numbers that a dedicated dps build would have, but it can still be cool.

I actually run this set on a DPS build it actually is pretty good my StamBlade has Cripple (speed buff and good DoT) and Swallow Souls (out heals Rally and with it's low cost even a stamina build be spam it) it's a good set it opens an unholy door that can't be closed a stamina Sorc with Crsytal Frags or my, StamPlar with Jesus Beam and of course a StamKnight with inhale. It's very very fun.

Sumpfheini

I really hated the hardcaps, they were so low and easy to reach there was basically no real diversity. I think we need some special talents/passives to give opportunities to compine stamina and magicka. I think the regen-mechanic would be a good possibility: Why not introduke skills that restore stamina for spending magicka etc. This way you would be able to use both, but consider while you might be able to use stamina abilities with a magicka build, you would still lack the high stamina pool keeping damage in check.