Craglorn Neft? How Big?

k9mouse

ZOS is making Craglorn main solo line soloable and group world bosses just like other DLCs. However, at what cost? How big is the netf to Craglorn if any?

Bouldercleave

Not sure, but I can't wait to see!

I hate that place right now.

k9mouse

I like my Craglorn because it is HARD! I am happy that I can do it solo now; however, I did not want to see it nerfed again. Way back when it was release, it was so much hard than it is even now. With Update 12 come, are we seeing it nerf again?

OldGamerESO

What is a neft?

Craglorn is a useless wasteland now. Any improvement is appreciated.

Egonieser

All I wanted was it to be upscaled to v16 and removed the artificial group gating, without removing the difficulty. It should remain as group orientated difficulty wise, but not group-forced mechanics to advance quests.
I really hope they won't *** it up too bad, I really enjoyed soloing Craglorn, the only thing I disliked were the gating mechanisms preventing me to progress certain quests.

Preyfar

Craglorn's biggest issue is that ZOS never made the quests rewarding. Nobody is going to want to do large amounts of time consuming questlines for little to no reward. The big draw to Craglorn was nirnhoned, and one nirnhoned got on the market nobody cared. But all those daily quests and storylines were left to kind of fester because the Nedic reward boxes contained nothing worth going after.

Putting in group content *is* a good idea, but putting in group content that has no reason to do it is not. Not everything has to have a reward, but adding incentives to do said content is a good thing. That's where ZOS dropped the ball.

That said, I'm glad to see they're making changes to it. Craglorn could have been interesting, and still can be...

k9mouse

I use Craglorn as way to test my builds. If I can solo a group dungeon there, then I know I have a good build.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Preyfar wrote: »

Putting in group content *is* a good idea, but putting in group content that has no reason to do it is not. Not everything has to have a reward, but adding incentives to do said content is a good thing. That's where ZOS dropped the ball.

^This, also it's a tiny patch of group content reached AFTER a very long slog of solo content, with most of the monsters being V11+ equivalent. That's a non-trivial amount of leveling. So if you play MMOs solely to do group content...you probably gave up long before that point. And the people who like to do the solo content don't necessarily like to do group content, and have no reason to touch it in the first place.

I'm still of the opinion that if they'd made it accessible from the start, like the DLCs, it would be much more widely received now.

GDOFWR420

Craglorn should be left alone. Just my opinion, its My favorite place to farm.

Unsent.Soul

k9mouse wrote: »

I use Craglorn as way to test my builds. If I can solo a group dungeon there, then I know I have a good build.

This really doesn't mean much at all now a days, craglorn is cp140 which means the enemies will be easier even though they outnumber you.

Any content you can scale to 160 would be a better test.

k9mouse

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

k9mouse wrote: »

I use Craglorn as way to test my builds. If I can solo a group dungeon there, then I know I have a good build.

This really doesn't mean much at all now a days, craglorn is cp140 which means the enemies will be easier even though they outnumber you.

Any content you can scale to 160 would be a better test.

I do both types CP160 in other zones and how big of pulls I can do in Craglorn Dungeons.

Asata

I don't really play there because it's group content and nobody does it cause it's pointless to do. But it'd be nice if they upped the nirncrux drop rate. I gathered there for 3 hours straight the other day before I got a single nirncrux. A guildie of mine gathered there for 11 hours straight and didn't find one at all! That's just.... insane.

As it is it's pointless to play there or to gather there since you could just do writs there and get nirncrux far easier. So any improvement would be nice.

Lord_Draevan

I'll finally get to finish Craglorn 2 years after it launched. Huzzah.
Though I assume this doesn't apply to the Trials, so to finish the Main Quest you'll still need to get a group for the final 3 quests. Lukcily my guildies run them once or twice a week so it shouldn't be an issue.

BlackEar

Gating aged extremely poorly and does indeed need a revamp.

Worthless rewards for long quest lines as well as group content nobody wants to do.
II can see why some players like that it is group based but something has to change to revive it.

Lord_Eomer

Its good if they will make similar like Orisnium

Shad0wfire99

I expect it to be like Orsinium, in that the quests are all solo-able, but the world bosses will be very tough if you're going it alone.

Rex-Umbra

Thank fing God been waiting to get the achievements.

Dagoth_Rac

What about the 4-man group Delves in Craglorn? Like Shada's Tear and Skyreach Hold? They were a lot of fun when first released and often equivalent in design and mechanics to group dungeons of the time like Vet Crypt of Hearts. Will they all be nerfed into 2-minute faceroll experiences like the solo delves in Orsinium? That would be a shame because developers clearly put a lot of time and effort into those places and they deserve a renaissance.

elvenmad

Craglorn is quite easy to solo now inc all the 'group' delves, cleared it ages ago just after hitting level 50 for all the skyshards and achieves, its just apart from them the rewards for doing it are worthless.

They need to make it either alot harder for groups or contain better rewards for solo to actually make it worthwhile content.

LadyNalcarya

Im looking forward to those changes, at last I will be able to try Craglorn questline.

k9mouse wrote: »

I like my Craglorn because it is HARD! I am happy that I can do it solo now; however, I did not want to see it nerfed again. Way back when it was release, it was so much hard than it is even now. With Update 12 come, are we seeing it nerf again?

Umm but its not hard atm?
I soloed all soloable content in Craglorn last autumn and didnt find it too challenging (except some bosses like 3 lamias in one of the Upper Craglorn delves).

Reverb

This makes me sad. Crag is my fave zone for solo play right now. I was actually hoping they would scale it to cp160 with One Tamriel, so the lower crag wasps are a viable survivability test again (because they're pretty "yawn" now, and I miss them being a challenge).

I guess it will be good to see more life in crag, but to me and many others, it represents the dumbing down of the last fun adventure zone. Now we're just left with soloing the Wrothgar public dungeons.

Runs

I'm expecting it to be harder than it is now, just no x player required to proceed mechanics. So technically soloable, but unlikely.

Did they specifically mention it would be made easier? I just heard the part about it being soloable.

Darlon

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

k9mouse wrote: »

I use Craglorn as way to test my builds. If I can solo a group dungeon there, then I know I have a good build.

This really doesn't mean much at all now a days, craglorn is cp140 which means the enemies will be easier even though they outnumber you.

Any content you can scale to 160 would be a better test.

Craglorn is CP110... (or 130 if you look at upper)

QUEZ420

Can't wait for the redone Craglorn, that place looks n feels awesome but jus can't progress solo atm. After they make it solo friendly it'll b a whole zone like Orsinium to discover n free of charge.

Milvan

Great, a group focused zone with a lot of potential will become a solo focused content.
Having literally all the zones including the dlcs ones soloable aren't enough for the casuals solo-only scrolls.

This is major let down.

hrothbern

k9mouse wrote: »

ZOS is making Craglorn main solo line soloable and group world bosses just like other DLCs. However, at what cost? How big is the netf to Craglorn if any?

I have the speculative hope that ZOS will not nerf the current difficulty level:
Perhaps Craglorn will be a pilot for ZOS to develop a multi-step difficulty scaling.
Later to be applied to the whole of the game.

That would mean that the artificial conditions that forbid solo atm are taken away, but not the current difficulty level, if you choose to do so.

And to make it accessible for the bigger volume of players you can choose an easier level.

LadyNalcarya

Milvan wrote: »

Great, a group focused zone with a lot of potential will become a solo focused content.
Having literally all the zones including the dlcs ones soloable aren't enough for the casuals solo-only scrolls.

This is major let down.

I personally dont like the idea of group questing. Simply because I'm a huge TES fan and if I'm questing, I like to take my time, explore, listen to dialogues etc. And if I'd be dependant on 3 more people, I wouldnt be able to play the story at my own pace (this is why I never done the Craglorn questline). Quests are different from actual group content(dungeons and trials) anyway, and theyre far from being challenging.
And I find artificial group requirements in quests kinda stupid. Craglorn content is pretty easy now, and having those group-locked doors doesnt add any more challenge, it just makes it annoying (because that door is basically the only non-soloable part).
ZOS said that content will be accessible for solo players and 4 man groups, maybe the quest instances will just scale depending on how many people are in group? Would be perfect imo.

Jimboo84

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

Great, a group focused zone with a lot of potential will become a solo focused content.
Having literally all the zones including the dlcs ones soloable aren't enough for the casuals solo-only scrolls.

This is major let down.

I personally dont like the idea of group questing. Simply because I'm a huge TES fan and if I'm questing, I like to take my time, explore, listen to dialogues etc. And if I'd be dependant on 3 more people, I wouldnt be able to play the story at my own pace (this is why I never done the Craglorn questline). Quests are different from actual group content(dungeons and trials) anyway, and theyre far from being challenging.
And I find artificial group requirements in quests kinda stupid. Craglorn content is pretty easy now, and having those group-locked doors doesnt add any more challenge, it just makes it annoying (because that door is basically the only non-soloable part).
ZOS said that content will be accessible for solo players and 4 man groups, maybe the quest instances will just scale depending on how many people are in group? Would be perfect imo.

I agree on this one. I like playing at my own pace, and thus never completed this zone fully.
Now progressing in all other zones, and this one zone is left behind.

Mojmir

enough that you can rp naked in a dungeon

ADarklore

Egonieser wrote: »

All I wanted was it to be upscaled to v16 and removed the artificial group gating, without removing the difficulty. It should remain as group orientated difficulty wise, but not group-forced mechanics to advance quests.
I really hope they won't *** it up too bad, I really enjoyed soloing Craglorn, the only thing I disliked were the gating mechanisms preventing me to progress certain quests.

Craglorn will become just like Orsinium and all other 'battle leveled' zones. They aren't going to make one zone more difficult than the next. Even Matt Firor joked about how Craglorn was a failure and hardly anyone went there, including himself, who had never gone there on the Live server. Thus, they completely revamped the zone and made it similar to how Orsinium plays. They have kept and added more things for groups, whether it be groups of two, three or four. However, the main storyline will become a solo quest.

Abeille

I'm a little surprised that they are making Craglorn a solo zone akin to Wrothgar, because that's not why people left to begin with. It was because, despite it being hard, the rewards were horrible after the countless xp nerfs and after the cap was increased and the drops in Craglorn were not increased with it. If the content is hard but it have good rewards, people will still do it.

But hey, whatever works. I won't complain, if that brings people back to the zone. I like Craglorn very much, myself.