I have kept my mouth shut, but I can't any longer...

maximine

Ok...I rarely post to any forums and stay out of online discussions/complaints/arguments, and I also realize that I'm beating a dead horse here, but this has just become ridiculous. At what point is enough, enough?

I, unfortunately, am one of the people who is all too familiar with the ever-shadowing burden of "tech-debt", and I have witnessed how quickly and easily one can be consumed by it, and the resulting consequences of underlying tech-debt. I am a Product Manager for a tech company in Silicon Valley, and lead a team of engineers in R&D for our product. I have also spent a lot of time researching problems that many companies face, and what's the common factor shared between most failures in the tech realm? TECH DEBT

If you're reading this and not familiar with the term, tech debt; it is the 'debt' accrued by the development and engineering teams for their product or software, that accumulates when underlying issues, bugs and end-user feedback is ignored. This debt can accumulate to the point that a company or product cannot recover, even if all new R&D ceases and 100% of budget and workforce is focused on remediating current tech-debt. Sometimes, it's too much and a product is consumed and drowns before the issues are even acknowledged.

I am just a casual gamer who plays when I can, and I know that I lack a lot of the experience and knowledge that most in this forum have. So, I am not trying to debate or get into any in-game discussions, and would only like to provide feedback to the ESO team in hopes to bring awareness to the critical issues that the team will soon face. The fact is, you're massively in tech-debt on the Playstation platform. I know that there are a lot of hardware-based obstacles that you may face with gaming platforms other than a PC, but nonetheless, you owe your customers truthful updates as this is due-diligence from the product supplier.

I see countless excuses from the ZOS team about hardware obstacles, server obstacles and other obstacles, but have yet to see an excuse that the team has taken ownership of. Do you know how much respect you could gain from your customers by just saying, "Here is the issue...We are responsible for the issue in one way or another, and we are working to resolve ASAP."? Something that simple can make such a difference. However, all I ever see is complaint after complaint, countless cases of constructive criticism and feedback, but either a 'blanket' response or excuse blaming another party. Is this how you want your end-users to view your company?

That said, I can probably consolidate all of the current and ongoing issues and problems into a single root cause; And yes, this may be an ignorant statement, as I do not know the truth behind everything. However, it wouldn't be an ignorant statement if we actually did receive truthful and intuitive feedback from ZOS.
I'm going to guess that the bulk of the project budget for ESO, as well as administrative and support budgets, were diminished long ago. Thus, resulting in a depleted engineering focus on tech-debt and a more prominent focus on new development and ways to obtain additional ARR with the game. Again, this is an ignorant statement and only an educated guess on my part. However, looking at ZOS on Glassdoor, it appears as if it could be a true statement. Your engineering retainage and all-around employee retainage is surprisingly low, and the same feedback seems to replicate itself - Upper Management politics and gapp'ing...in case you aren't aware, this ultimately leads to failure within a company if not resolved.

So, if any of the above is true, I would suspect that with no management/maintenance budget, the only logical thing to do in terms of revenue is to add additional services, features and content to generate additional ARR. Though that's pretty much every company's goal, it's done strategically and with a working product. To bring some illustration to that point, it's like putting 22" rims, custom audio, and new paint on a car with a broken motor...at the end of the day, you have a car with all of the new and attractive accessories, but it still doesnt run.

I really hate to be that guy who posts such critical feedback, but I can promise you that brand-loyalty will only get you so far. Yes, we may all love the Elder Scrolls franchise, but if people can't play it, then they will move on. That is a fact. I would be interested to know, what is your current churn-rate for new players? What is your churn-rate for existing players prior to 1/1/16? I assure you that no matter how big of a fan of Elder Scrolls I am, I wouldn't play this game if I picked it up and started playing today. It's almost miserable, yet hard to give up because of how much we are invested. I think there are a lot of people that feel this way.

But hell, maybe we are the losers here. We consistently bring you additional monthly ARR for ESO Plus, buy loads of Crowns and keep playing a game that doesn't work. Hell, it sounds like you have it figured out and I need to be learning from you. However, I do understand what it's like to receive positive and negative feedback on a product that you pour your work and life into and you must adapt, listen and change in order to be successful. So, take this criticism and use it. Let it make you angry and prove it wrong. Just don't ignore it. You have a broken game and you owe it to your customers to fix it.

BalticBlues

Good comment. This game was so great on console release,
but each update and each DLC ruined it a bit more.

This happens if all focus is on DLC and the PC version,
no matter how *** the changes perform on console.

QA? Obviously not necessary anymore as long as people still buy the DLC.
Since the last patch, months have gone by with little to no word of excuse.

All hope is now on today's brand new patch.
If this patch won't fix at least the invisible mobs and loading screens in battle...

maximine

Agreed. Why spend resources on QA when we all still play and bring in loads of additional revenue with the current product?

At this point, if console performance issues continue, it is only fair to open account transfers to alternate platforms. Just as ZOS did when console schedules were pushed out, they allowed for PC accounts to be transferred to consoles when the console platforms were ready.

We should be able to (or even purchase, if necessary, ZOS) transfer our console account to PC if the end-user has the resources to use a different platform.

One thing I've learned throughout my career: If you're going to provide a product that is platform neutral, the product should perform as if it is platform neutral. Yes, there will be small differences across each platform, but if your product is substantially different across each platform, you provide means for the end-user to move across each platform if you want your product to be successful.

BalticBlues

maximine wrote: »

At this point, if console performance issues continue, it is only fair to open account transfers to alternate platforms. Just as ZOS did when console schedules were pushed out, they allowed for PC accounts to be transferred to consoles when the console platforms were ready.

Agreed. Many people spent a lot of money on their account to find that currently some content is unplayable and/or quality is massively reduced. At this point a pc transfer could help customers to finally play on a stable platform again.

ESO is one of the games I see as a service. A service which I would like to use on each available platform, if it's the console in the living room or the PC in my workroom. With more and more SmartTVs, many people will not even buy a console in the future, they will just subscribe to services as Playstation Now. Once PS Now will be opened for PC users, I finally will be able to play the console version on the console in the living room or the PC version in my workroom (while my daugther is playing in the living room). This could be great. However, for this ZOS has to get ESO back in shape as it was on release. In its current form, the game is probably the buggiest piece of software I have ever played on PS4.

terrordactyl1971

Agreed, which is why I started Neverwinter

DHale

The ability to go from PC to console or vice versa should have been in game since launch. Changing from na to Europe should also have been in game since launch. They could put it in the crown store and make some dough. There is really no excuse for this not being done. That said being your neighbor in Palo Alto I think the reasons for the multiple technical problems is the culture of the studio and this is clearly exhibited in glass door and eso reviews. Having worked for a similar organization I assumed this to be the case. One specific example is keep jumping having done it hundreds of times on my dk with take flight and propelling shield. One of the leads said to me over a year ago it was inventive and dynamic game play.... Fast forward to today it is cheating and exploiting. Could have been fixed but why fix it when you can just change the narrative to suit the current qq quotient. Now that same lead is saying errrr it's cheating.

JudahXBL

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

Agreed, which is why I started Neverwinter

Damn, I totally forgot that was on PS4 now. I played a year and a half on X1. I'll warn you now that with speed runs being the meta, the difference between free-to-play users and pay-to-win is almost 100%. Meaning without dropping $2-3k on BiS gear to max out your item level, most groups will kick you and then with Mod 9 coming, F2P users won't have the max stats required to complete it. They can on PC and X1 because they've had 1-2 years to max out doing dailies. I quit NW for ESO just recently. I'm perfectly fine with a few bugs in ESO, rather than having to max a credit card out on NW lol.

Rittings

Sadly... this won't get the attention it sorely needs. But it's a well written piece in the OP... I hope ZoS pay it some heed - because we all pretty much feel this way.

kylewwefan

You've no idea how hard it is not to respond to this.

maximine

Thanks, @Rittings and everyone else. Completely agree with all of you.

@kylewwefan haha what do you mean?

kylewwefan

We consumers have no idea what their budget is or how many subscriber there still are. Turnover rates.....well the game has been finished for a long time. I think it wouldn't take near the people to keep the ship going once it's started. And, there was just a huge update yesterday that seems to have fixed a lot of issues. The engine is far from broken IMO. Maybe the DLC are like shiny rims and bumpin stereo on an 80's beater rust bucket hatchback......but this is the vehicle I choose.

maximine

@kylewwefan Agreed. All of your statements are correct. Yes, we as consumers, do not know the inner details for anything. Hence, my statement in the OP, "And yes, this may be an ignorant statement, as I do not know the truth behind everything. However, it wouldn't be an ignorant statement if we actually did receive truthful and intuitive feedback from ZOS."

And yes, dedicated manpower can be pulled if majoirty of the work is complete. However, if your primary product is unstable and actually broken, until yesterday's patch which has drastically improved performance...for now.

As I mentioned in the OP, I am only trying to provide some intellectual feedback on their product, based on my experience and knowledge that I have obtained in the industry. I thought that maybe some intellectual scenarios and theories may actually provide some thought-provoking ideas for their team. This is typically better feedback from an end-user than a typical complaint with useless information included.

kylewwefan

Be a little more optimistic the game is working better than it has in a good while!

QuebraRegra

I'm in about as tech a field as you can get, and the problem isn't "TECH DEBT"... the problem is *** management.

"management" or a lack thereof is what is crippling every industry. It's management that sets the priorities, allocates the resources, and ensures the deliverables... they steer the ship and they are failing across the board.

I'm not sure what has gone awry with management in the last 20 years, but it's a downward spiral, and they have their heads up their 5th point of contact.

maximine

@QuebraRegra totally agree with that as well, brotha

Rohamad_Ali

It is a great post and +1 internets for you OP but you are dealing with a team that a zero tolerance policy on ownership lol

wayfarerx

QuebraRegra wrote: »

I'm in about as tech a field as you can get, and the problem isn't "TECH DEBT"... the problem is *** management.

I think a more succinct way of putting it is that technical debt is the symptom and poor management is the disease. It's true that the entire software industry suffers from severe management issues and I imagine a highly-competitive, release-driven area like gaming sees some of the worst.

QuebraRegra

DHale wrote: »

The ability to go from PC to console or vice versa should have been in game since launch. Changing from na to Europe should also have been in game since launch. They could put it in the crown store and make some dough. There is really no excuse for this not being done. That said being your neighbor in Palo Alto I think the reasons for the multiple technical problems is the culture of the studio and this is clearly exhibited in glass door and eso reviews. Having worked for a similar organization I assumed this to be the case. One specific example is keep jumping having done it hundreds of times on my dk with take flight and propelling shield. One of the leads said to me over a year ago it was inventive and dynamic game play.... Fast forward to today it is cheating and exploiting. Could have been fixed but why fix it when you can just change the narrative to suit the current qq quotient. Now that same lead is saying errrr it's cheating.

like how animation canceling/weaving became a feature? CLASSIC.

I understand how complex it would have been to address AC, but labeling it as a feature because they could not address it at the time is quite a work of spin doctoring.

GLASSDOOR is very telling when it comes to some companies. Certainly there will be some who will only kvetch, but in some cases you can see a clear history of mismanagement. I haven't looked at ZOS, and I'm not certain I want to.

I think we all want ZOS to be successful. Is the fault the disparate wants, and fickle nature of the playerbase, combined with a lack of concise leadership?

QuebraRegra

kylewwefan wrote: »

Be a little more optimistic the game is working better than it has in a good while!

In defense of ZOS, that's true. I want the entire time on xbox last night for 4 hours without a single spurious loading screen. I did get one long load, but that is not exceptional (considering it was massively crowded WAYREST).

Kudos to ZOS, clearly something got fixed.

maximine

Thanks, @Rohamad_Ali and everyone else for the feedback.

Whether the feedback is in agreement with my OP or if it's in disagreement, it's still feedback and all of it is appreciated. That's what these feedback forums are for...discussions. Whether we all agree on the same exact principles or not, it's thought-provoking discussions and constructive criticism from all ends that contribute to a positive change for a product.

Again, thanks for everyone's feedback whether you agree with me or not. Nonetheless, I think we all agree that the latest patch has resulted in a lot of performance improvements and only time will tell if that will last. Good job on the latest update, ZOS, and please be sure to engage with your end-users, even the customers that deliver the most negative feedback. For the most part, we all want ZOS and the game to succeed and most of us are just trying to help bring that to life.

Rohamad_Ali

maximine wrote: »

Thanks, @Rohamad_Ali and everyone else for the feedback.

Whether the feedback is in agreement with my OP or if it's in disagreement, it's still feedback and all of it is appreciated. That's what these feedback forums are for...discussions. Whether we all agree on the same exact principles or not, it's thought-provoking discussions and constructive criticism from all ends that contribute to a positive change for a product.

Again, thanks for everyone's feedback whether you agree with me or not. Nonetheless, I think we all agree that the latest patch has resulted in a lot of performance improvements and only time will tell if that will last. Good job on the latest update, ZOS, and please be sure to engage with your end-users, even the customers that deliver the most negative feedback. For the most part, we all want ZOS and the game to succeed and most of us are just trying to help bring that to life.

I believe part of the reason is back when it all started a lot of statements where made that turned out not to be true at a later time . So now we don't see any "The Road ahead" posts or updates officially posted on game conditions . The game still has bugs from beta according to some testers and others that have been "embraced" instead of corrected . So here we are just happy if the games playable these days . This MMO is run like non other I have ever been apart of and probably if being without the franchise title , many would not be so patientl . B2P was the only decision that could make players say , ok there's problems but it's not costing me anymore money so I'll deal ...

Rittings

kylewwefan wrote: »

Be a little more optimistic the game is working better than it has in a good while!

No... just... no.

The load screens might be a little better - but the enemies still are invisible in most cases (unless you wait for long period). You still have stuttering intermittently after you kill an enemy (which leads to extensive pausing if you level without re-logging to fix aforementioned issue). We even had a prolonged down period for many users on the NA server today due to the megaservers not taking the strain I suspect.

Group finder is now worse than ever. You can't find a group for love nor money. Even queuing as a healer or tank still puts you in over an hour wait time - and I queued today as a tank and gave up at the 2 hour mark.

When grouping manually we now have a brand new glitch (which is acknowledged by devs) whereby the group creator doesn't appear to be actually in the group - and until they travel - peeps in the group cannot leave that group either...

There are a slew of problems that the game is plagued with and this would be a monstrous post to try and list them all. So don't pretend it's running well - it isn't. Some of us remember how smoothly it DID run in the beginning. Every DLC brings a backward step in the performance of the game - that's not how it should be. There is no progression being made.

PrinceBoru

Tech debt aka $$ over quality until the lights are out.
I agree with op.