HELP! Desert Rose Set

Draqone

Hey everyone!

I am relatively new to ESO, about to reach my first CP160.

I wanted to play a self-sustainable character that'd use magicka to restore HP and restore magicka while in combat. As I have been playing healers and tanks in MMOs since 2001 I went for the templar class that seemed to fit best. I found the Desert Rise set and thought - Yep, This is perfect!

I want to make the Desert Rose set work. Anyone has any cool characters or even ideas based around it?

Set Stats:
(2 items) Adds 1935 Spell Resistance

(3 items) Adds 1064 Max Health

(4 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka

(5 items) 10% chance when taking damage to recover 2408 Magicka. This effect has a 1 second cooldown.

hrothbern

Draqone wrote: »

Hey everyone!

I am relatively new to ESO, about to reach my first CP160.

I wanted to play a self-sustainable character that'd use magicka to restore HP and restore magicka while in combat. As I have been playing healers and tanks in MMOs since 2001 I went for the templar class that seemed to fit best. I found the Desert Rise set and thought - Yep, This is perfect!

I want to make the Desert Rose set work. Anyone has any cool characters or even ideas based around it?

Set Stats:
(2 items) Adds 1935 Spell Resistance

(3 items) Adds 1064 Max Health

(4 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka

(5 items) 10% chance when taking damage to recover 2408 Magicka. This effect has a 1 second cooldown.

A semi perma block NB Sap Essence Tank, 5HA-2LA, will get a lot of sustain from Desert Rose.
That wil enable to cast a lot of expensive Sap Essence's, that will:

1. draw aggro in PVE and get hit enough to have benefit from Desert Rose
2. return Magicka to cast Sap Essence more often
3. return Stamina to keep your Block up
4. And... do a lot of AOE & DOT damage (for a Tank) ! For Solo purposes or as contribution to your raid group. If you need less Stamina back from Sap Essence, less melee mobs there around you, or you get a lot of Magicka from your group, you can throw a lot of Debiliates as well on mobs.

Emma_Overload

This set was tricky to use even before the nerf, but now it doesn't have much utility. I've tested it thoroughly, and you only get a lot of magicka return when you are getting hit by a LOT of mobs. This is fine when you are spamming a dozen weak zombies with Impulse, but you don't need a fancy gear set just for that.

What Desert Rose WON'T do is get you through VMA or any kind of PvP encounter. You're much better off with Seducer in most situations.

Draqone

hrothbern wrote: »

A semi perma block NB Sap Essence Tank, 5HA-2LA, will get a lot of sustain from Desert Rose.
That wil enable to cast a lot of expensive Sap Essence's

Hmm... do you mean 5LA/2HA ? Because there's no Desert Rose heavy set as far as I know?

Draqone

Emma_Overload wrote: »

This is fine when you are spamming a dozen weak zombies with Impulse, but you don't need a fancy gear set just for that.

I was hoping to combine it with templars Puncturing Sweep.

Asmael

I'm curious, this set drops in jewelry too?

If yes, I got something to try out...

Brrrofski

hrothbern wrote: »

Draqone wrote: »

Hey everyone!

I am relatively new to ESO, about to reach my first CP160.

I wanted to play a self-sustainable character that'd use magicka to restore HP and restore magicka while in combat. As I have been playing healers and tanks in MMOs since 2001 I went for the templar class that seemed to fit best. I found the Desert Rise set and thought - Yep, This is perfect!

I want to make the Desert Rose set work. Anyone has any cool characters or even ideas based around it?

Set Stats:
(2 items) Adds 1935 Spell Resistance

(3 items) Adds 1064 Max Health

(4 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka

(5 items) 10% chance when taking damage to recover 2408 Magicka. This effect has a 1 second cooldown.

A semi perma block NB Sap Essence Tank, 5HA-2LA, will get a lot of sustain from Desert Rose.
That wil enable to cast a lot of expensive Sap Essence's, that will:

1. draw aggro in PVE and get hit enough to have benefit from Desert Rose
2. return Magicka to cast Sap Essence more often
3. return Stamina to keep your Block up
4. And... do a lot of AOE & DOT damage (for a Tank) ! For Solo purposes or as contribution to your raid group. If you need less Stamina back from Sap Essence, less melee mobs there around you, or you get a lot of Magicka from your group, you can throw a lot of Debiliates as well on mobs.

You don't need it on a sap tank. Syphoning strikes gives you more than enough resources back.

You'd have to wear 5 light. Not worth the tradeoff.

hrothbern

Draqone wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

A semi perma block NB Sap Essence Tank, 5HA-2LA, will get a lot of sustain from Desert Rose.
That wil enable to cast a lot of expensive Sap Essence's

Hmm... do you mean 5LA/2HA ? Because there's no Desert Rose heavy set as far as I know?

The updated Desert Rose set is including Weapons and Jewelry. You need only 1 or 2 LA pieces from it.

The issue with Desert Rose, as @Emma_Overload also mentioned, is that you need a lot of hits to get back enough Magicka to make the set worthwhile.
If the amount of hits per second is too low, you better slot gear that reduces cost and/or increases Recovery.
If your Heal/Mitigation/Shield cost too much Magicka per hit relative to the Magicka gain per hit, Desert Rose has no net benefit.
For a semi-permablocking build, with a high damage mitigation, this balance could be positive enough to use Desert Rose.
The 2,3,4 piece bonusses also indicate a suitability for tanky build.
(2 items) Adds 1935 Spell Resistance
(3 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(5 items) 10% chance when taking damage to recover 2408 Magicka. This effect has a 1 second cooldown.

Because I have a dust gathering NB Sap Essence Tank, I did a theocrafting deep dive (meanwhile playing with much pleasure a Sorc)
I modelled Desert Rose under DPS pressure to get some idea how the benefit of the Magicka gain relates to the damage you need to handle/absorb and to compare it with CP-160 Warlock.
From my experience: when I tank a breach in PVP I get after a while standing there, drawing enough attention, typical roughly 10 hits/s.
In PVE you get hit a lot less per second because most NPC's only hit you once per 2 seconds and there are far less DOT's. With 4-10 NPC's attacking you, you get 2-5 hits/s.
First step was to get for Desert Rose the average Magicka gain per second as function of the number of hits per second.

1. at 1 hit/s : 217 M/s
2. at 2 hits/s: 400 M/s
3. at 5 hits/s: 800 M/s
4. at 10 hits/s: 1200 M/s
5. at 20 hits/s: 1600 M/s (only added to show clearly the diminishing returns per hit when hit a lot)

Accuracy of the figures better than 5%.

Comparison with Warlock:
Warlock gives 2*129 M Recovery + once a minute 7,695 M gain.
The 7,695 converts in 128 M/s.
Converting the 2*129 M Recovery is less straightforward.
For my 5HA-2LA NB Tank with an expensive Sap Essence and almost all green CP in Mag cost reduction and Block cost reduction, I get only the 15% inc from NB + 2*4% from 2LA + 2% from Mage Guild. This results in (1.25*2*129)/2 = 161 M/s.
So Warlock in total gives for my 5HA NB 128 + 161 = 289 M/s.
For a 5LA build with more in increased % M Recovery the 161 will be higher, per haps 50% higher for 240 M/s.
So Warlock for a LA build would give up to 128 + 240 = 368 M/s.

Conclusion:
Desert Rose is clearly better than Warlock when hit at 2 hits/s and starts to shine when hit more.
Desert Rose is a nice demand follower: When hit more, you need more, you get more (Heal) !

@Draqone ,
This all gives you info, but not a clear answer whether Desert Rose will be suited for your Templar build, relying on puncturing Sweeps.
On that:
From my Templar experience
If you want to be able to keep up Puncturing Sweeps, you need quite some Magicka Resource sustain.
And if you are then attacked by other NPC's or PVP players you have mostly not enough Magicka left for BOL's and you need to start Heavy Attack kiting.
So... it could very well be that Desert Rose is a good choice for your build.
When you have few enemies, your normal Magicka Resource sustain can run dry without too much of an issue, because you can kite/Heavy Attack.
When under pressure from many enemies, with Desert Rose, you will not run dry, you do not need to kite/Heavy Attack having no Punctuuring Heal, you can just go on with Puncturing Sweeps, perhaps even BOL in between.
My Templar PVP buddy is going to run Desert Rose. See how it goes.

Draqone

hrothbern wrote: »

SNIP

LOVE YOU!

Draqone

OK. I have one last question.

In my quest to play a character with what i call reactive sap armour - basically armour that gives more benefits as you get hit more - I decided that I'll indeed go with Desert Rose + Scourge Harvester.

This makes me regain magicka and health when I am getting hit. The only thing is I am not regaining any stamina which is an issue. I will have my Repentance, which is great and I love it, but it goes against my goal as it's a skill that rewards me for KILLING rather than for getting hit.

I could go with Engine Guardian but I am looking for alternatives.

What good set or skill (or anything) would give me reactive stamina gain? Suggestions?

Caza99

I disagree with a lot of what has been said here.
Desert Rose is extremely useful in PvP. I run it on my magicka templar with channeled focus for insane magicka sustain. It's so good that I can comfortably run low regen on the no-cp campaign, of course in combination with a couple other aspects of the build. The point is without Desert Rose, I would not be able to do this. I've also found it extremely useful on my magicka dragonknight.

hrothbern

Draqone wrote: »

OK. I have one last question.

In my quest to play a character with what i call reactive sap armour - basically armour that gives more benefits as you get hit more - I decided that I'll indeed go with Desert Rose + Scourge Harvester.

This makes me regain magicka and health when I am getting hit. The only thing is I am not regaining any stamina which is an issue. I will have my Repentance, which is great and I love it, but it goes against my goal as it's a skill that rewards me for KILLING rather than for getting hit.

I could go with Engine Guardian but I am looking for alternatives.

What good set or skill (or anything) would give me reactive stamina gain? Suggestions?

If there would be a set that returns Stamina on being hit, it would be the first choice for (starting) Tanks.
And no, there is no such set.

Regarding abilities:
Sorc has Dark Deal, Templar Repentance Spears, DK has the Helping Hands passive and NB Siphoning Attacks.

Remains Heavy Attacks with a Melee weapon or a Bow.
Bow having the advantage that you can also use it in a ranged fight.
The Stamina gain gets from wearing 5 Heavy Armor a 50% buff.

Take note that the Stamina Restore per Heavy Attack is for every kind of Weapon different, losely related to the duration of a fully charged Heavy Attack.
Same BTW for Magicka Restore of Destro-Resto.
Destro being more effective despite the Resto passive.

Joy_Division

Emma_Overload wrote: »

This set was tricky to use even before the nerf, but now it doesn't have much utility. I've tested it thoroughly, and you only get a lot of magicka return when you are getting hit by a LOT of mobs. This is fine when you are spamming a dozen weak zombies with Impulse, but you don't need a fancy gear set just for that.

What Desert Rose WON'T do is get you through VMA or any kind of PvP encounter. You're much better off with Seducer in most situations.

Precisely this. The set isn't offering very much beyond the getting swarmed scenario and why I think you should look elsewhere.

Truewavesound

hrothbern wrote: »

If there would be a set that returns Stamina on being hit, it would be the first choice for (starting) Tanks.
And no, there is no such set.

Well, Black Rose 5p essentially gives you more Mag and Stam regen through getting hit, by improving the constitution passive.

Unsent.Soul

Does anyone know how this 5 piece trait works with blazing shield? If the shield is up and you get hit, will it proc? Or, does the set only proc when the player is hit, not the shield?

Silver_Strider

Truewavesound wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

If there would be a set that returns Stamina on being hit, it would be the first choice for (starting) Tanks.
And no, there is no such set.

Well, Black Rose 5p essentially gives you more Mag and Stam regen through getting hit, by improving the constitution passive.

Nothing is stopping you from combining the 2 (apart from the fact you will have next to no damage ofc)

Synozeer

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

Does anyone know how this 5 piece trait works with blazing shield? If the shield is up and you get hit, will it proc? Or, does the set only proc when the player is hit, not the shield?

Yes, Desert Rose works through shields like Blazing Shield.

Unsent.Soul

Synozeer wrote: »

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

Does anyone know how this 5 piece trait works with blazing shield? If the shield is up and you get hit, will it proc? Or, does the set only proc when the player is hit, not the shield?

Yes, Desert Rose works through shields like Blazing Shield.

Thank you!

olsborg

Magicka furnace set is also one to be considered.

xRIVALENx

I currently run a Sorc tank with this set and it works out quite well, feeds my Dark Deal and Critical Surge which keeps me sustained while permanently blocking. Just have to be cautious with using Dark Deal because of the one second cast time of course.

driosketch

Been running a templar with this set for a long time. Back then I calulated the cost reduction versus return for resource management with this set compared to Magnus and Seducer. Looking at my 5 most used skills in dps and healing, for my play style, Desert Rose was the better deal.

In real game testing I found it procs off DoT ticks, e.g. being poisoned. So, say versus a group of scorpions in upper Craglorn, back when they gave me trouble, I could get it to more or less consistently proc about twice in a fight.

It's a good defensive set, back when I was feeling squishy, allowed me to pull attributes from health and stack them in magicka, and I also I liked the appearance.