With 1 Tamriel, why have levels, champion points, or gear score?

TalonKnight

I get making all content viable, but what is the point to grind levels, or CP, or upgrade your gear when u cant tell how strong u have become.

1 of the things that eso already did that i thought was just a really bad idea was the fact that u cant do older content cause there is absolutely no reward in doing so, meaning no way to farm lower lev gear or items. Couple that with no real unique set items dropping from individual dungeons like lets say from spindleclutch...." spider web weaved bow of hindrance", or some thing like that, that gives u a chance to encase a target in a web while u stay back and fire arrows at them.

Which if u could run that said dungeon at lev it was intended to be ran at, i think was lev 12-16. Then u could go back run the dungeon and get that rare drop for lets say an alt, or better yet add a transmog system in to get the look of that said cool looking spindleclutch bow for your current character.

Any way im getting off topic, the thing is gaining strength in an mmo is all about going back to that 1 raid that u couldnt get passed, and running it by yourself to just get that cool gear that u, or maybe your group wasnt skilled enough to get.

or going back and stomping the crap out of that world boss that used to bug u.

Ok walls of text suck, but the truth is why level? whats the the point.... 1 Tamriel is not a good idea, not to mention not being able to go back and 1 man older content, cause even at this point if u did let us go back we would still b too high of a level to get any gear from the enemies we would fight let alone there not being any cool sets that drop from those dungeons.

On a side note implementing any of these ideas is absolutely worthless unless ZOS fixes the current state of the game....

jedtb16_ESO

maybe wait and see how it works before complaining about it?

JustSnilloc

TalonKnight wrote: »

Ok walls of text suck, but the truth is why level? whats the the point

Skills? Access to better gear?

Elsonso

Best guess is that character levels will not matter, skill level and Champion Points will.

wolfydog

Levels still matter. Take a level 1 into any DLC zone and you'll have a pretty tough time of it. Even though youll be battle leveld up, as a new player or just new toon, you still wont have any skill points and morphs for skills unlocked.

Even as the game is now, make a noob and don't spend any champion points, the game is more challenging, same noob with 300+ champ points and you really take on anything.

Elsonso

wolfydog wrote: »

Levels still matter. Take a level 1 into any DLC zone and you'll have a pretty tough time of it. Even though youll be battle leveld up, as a new player or just new toon, you still wont have any skill points and morphs for skills unlocked.

Even as the game is now, make a noob and don't spend any champion points, the game is more challenging, same noob with 300+ champ points and you really take on anything.

Ywah, but it is not the character level that matters. A level 1 character will have lower class and weapon skills and fewer spells and abilities unlocked. That will matter.

Lysette

As I see it you get stronger by having more skill points and access to better materials, better gear and later, as a veteran, to champion points to shape your characters abilities even more. Attribute points are more to define the ratio in which each of your stats will contribute to your character's abilities. The higher you get in your level, the less "over-scaled" you will be, but you have more attribute points to fine-tune the relation of your attributes to each other. Those attribute points do not really make you stronger, but you can define more precisely (if you do not put all points into just one stat, that is) in which way each of your attributes will contribute to your abilities. What makes you better are skill points and champion points in the end.

At least this is how i see the effects of One Tamriel on this.

Edit: the effect of adding an attribute point to your character with One Tamriel will be (as I understand it) that this attribute will advance significantly while both of the others will slightly get weaker. The relation of those attributes to each other is changing, like before as well, but the effect is different. And the more attribute points you have, the better you can fine tune these relations between your attributes.

NewBlacksmurf

I'd say to remove CP levels from everything but that's been my suggestion pre removal of Vr

Danikat

Trust me it matters.

I recently subbed for only 1 month (long story, won't explain why here) and decided while I had it I might as well check out the DLC - specifically Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood since I already know I want Wrothgar and don't want IC. But I didn't want to start it on one of my existing characters, have to stop when the sub runs out and then have to go back to it months later with no idea what I was doing.

So I made a brand new character, skipped the tutorial and went straight into the Thieves Guild quest - at level 3, wearing Soul Shriven rags with a grand total of 3 skills (the first 3 class skills) and 2 points in stamina. I'm so glad I did Thieves Guild first and the starting quest has barely any combat, I think I died in every single fight, even when it was 1 normal spider.

Sure I was battle levelled to 150CP but that doesn't mean much when battle levelling is scaling up what you've got and you've barely got anything. Maybe it would have less of an impact if I'd at least gotten some armour (although the pieces I picked up as I was going along didn't seem to make a difference), but I think the lack of a full skill bar and all the CP bonuses is what really hurt me.

Having said that I've also never understood this idea that levelling up, and getting better equipment is the point of an RPG. To me the point of the game is to play through the storylines and other content and levels and better equipment are basically a way of gating you - ensuring you play it in order by making it impossible for you to survive if you try to skip ahead.

So a game where you don't need to level up isn't pointless, it's just more open. All the same content is there, but you have more choice over which parts you do and what order you do them in. If you want to follow the storyline/s and only go to areas when you're directed to them you can, but you can also make up your own order.

Lysette

Yes, this is basically the difference to a higher level character then - as a low level you have far less skill points, your gear is trash and your weapons do not do much damage without associated skills on your bar. You have pretty much no resistances and miserable enchantments on your gear, if any at all. This is what makes you far weaker than a higher level character. And let's not forget about food, you do most likely not have any food to boost your stats or no good food and your potions are crap as well. A lot of those enemies in that TG initial quest do not have to be fought though, you can sneak around or outrun them, just a few have to be fought.

TalonKnight

1st off i think a lot of u all dont understand what i am saying about feeling like u have become stronger as u level.

This is all i have to say, and b4 u start hating on the game im about to mention this is the only way i can sum it up, and for those that do understand me will, and maybe they can put in better words then i can....

Have u played wow if not then i dont think u understand how fun it is to go back and 1 man molten core back in the days.

And it would b awesome if this game new how to take what was good, and make it better, and not try to re-invent the wheel.

TalonKnight

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

maybe wait and see how it works before complaining about it?

Um.... hold on 1 sec bro.... we do know how it works, have u played wrothgar, or any of the dlc's, have u played guild wars 2....

Guild wars 2 did this, and thats the main reason i quit playing that game....

The main reason they r doing this is to cater to u elder scrolls fan boys, o u can go where u want when u want, but i personally like eso;s original game idea of this being an elder scrolls MMO, an MMO 1st with an elder scrolls overlay, now its becoming something it was never intended to b.

bertenburnyb16_ESO

downgrading a player to the zone hes in I get, so you can still do something in zones if your overlvld,
but upgrading players to the zone... no thats just wrong, thats also not how it works in ES games, if ur low lvl and go to more difficult regions your gonna get destroyed quick

jedtb16_ESO

wolfydog wrote: »

Levels still matter. Take a level 1 into any DLC zone and you'll have a pretty tough time of it. Even though youll be battle leveld up, as a new player or just new toon, you still wont have any skill points and morphs for skills unlocked.

Even as the game is now, make a noob and don't spend any champion points, the game is more challenging, same noob with 300+ champ points and you really take on anything.

yup... this^

and i am speaking as a player running 2 n00bs through with 300 cp exactly. public dungeons and wb are easy solo.

jedtb16_ESO

TalonKnight wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

maybe wait and see how it works before complaining about it?

Um.... hold on 1 sec bro.... we do know how it works, have u played wrothgar, or any of the dlc's, have u played guild wars 2....

Guild wars 2 did this, and thats the main reason i quit playing that game....

The main reason they r doing this is to cater to u elder scrolls fan boys, o u can go where u want when u want, but i personally like eso;s original game idea of this being an elder scrolls MMO, an MMO 1st with an elder scrolls overlay, now its becoming something it was never intended to b.

i have been playing since pre-release. i have taken a low level into wrothgar and, what was, a vr14 - there is a world of difference - gear and skills.

guild wars 2? don't care what happened in that.

so, lets see what happens.

TalonKnight

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

downgrading a player to the zone hes in I get, so you can still do something in zones if your overlvld,
but upgrading players to the zone... no thats just wrong, thats also not how it works in ES games, if ur low lvl and go to more difficult regions your gonna get destroyed quick

disagree, its not cool to do either, and the only reason elder scrolls games r fun is cause u can change the difficulty to harder to mach your skill level, or make it easy cause u just want to play the game.

The way eso is now u can go to higher level zones to have the challenge if u want it, and if u dont, at least in the core game u can out level a zone by a few levels and, have an easier play.

Guess the simple fact for me, and people like me eso is a done thing, it sux cause i have been playin since closed beta, and i can assure that since people like the KONK quit eso has gone WAY down hill.

idk

JustSnilloc wrote: »

TalonKnight wrote: »

Ok walls of text suck, but the truth is why level? whats the the point

Skills? Access to better gear?

OP wants it all instant. Considering how fast leveling is I see no reason to complain about it. Besides, if leveling was instant then people would complain about leveling certain skill line and such. Some will always complain because it takes a little time.

TalonKnight

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

JustSnilloc wrote: »

TalonKnight wrote: »

Ok walls of text suck, but the truth is why level? whats the the point

Skills? Access to better gear?

OP wants it all instant. Considering how fast leveling is I see no reason to complain about it. Besides, if leveling was instant then people would complain about leveling certain skill line and such. Some will always complain because it takes a little time.

Dude heres an idea, how about u actually read the others posts made so u understand the conversation of others, and my other responses b4 u make your hasty replies.

If lets say u did read some of my other comments u would know that i play wow, and thats a very grindy game in a sense, so say something constructive or get off the forums.

Tandor

I think it might be easier to follow what the OP was saying if he used proper language instead of leet speak.

For me the sole (and very substantial) benefit of One Tamriel will be the ability to do the various DLC content on different characters before they reach level 50. At present that is pointless as they would then find that they were even more over-leveled for the remaining base game content than they were already.

That aside, the change will make no difference to the way I play the game and it won't therefore impact on levels, champion points, gear score etc. I can see the point that it takes away the benefit of going back to lower level content to finish it but I always clear all the content I want to do before moving on anyway.

Lysette

Maybe they will leave the starter islands as they are - to play with a level 3 character under battle-leveled conditions is not fun and people have to learn the game, so I think the starter islands will stay as they are. But once one has about level 6-8 - which one has after completing the starter islands - with some care and caution one can play battle-leveled in a DLC zone. So basically all the normal non-starter-island zones could be battle-leveled, just not the starter islands - a level 3 sucks under battle-leveled conditions, this would be too frustrating for new players.

Mettaricana

Would love unique 1pc weapon set effects like maelstrom etc to drop from bosses in dungeons aside from helm and shoulders. to off set the boring maelstrom or dragon star grind

Imagine:
selenes boots of trapping when you take off sprinting leave behind a web that snares targets by 40%

Sword of valkyn skoria
Random chance on hit to cause an aoe explosion that hits all enenies around you for flame dmg

Molag kenas staff when heavy or light attacking 20% chance to conjure a storm atronach

I'd be a over dungeon runs for this kinda stuff and repeatable content

idk

TalonKnight wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

JustSnilloc wrote: »

TalonKnight wrote: »

Ok walls of text suck, but the truth is why level? whats the the point

Skills? Access to better gear?

OP wants it all instant. Considering how fast leveling is I see no reason to complain about it. Besides, if leveling was instant then people would complain about leveling certain skill line and such. Some will always complain because it takes a little time.

Dude heres an idea, how about u actually read the others posts made so u understand the conversation of others, and my other responses b4 u make your hasty replies.

If lets say u did read some of my other comments u would know that i play wow, and thats a very grindy game in a sense, so say something constructive or get off the forums.

Dude. Here's an idea. Add clarity to your OP instead of requiring peeps to read every post you made in this thread to begin to get an idea of what your talking about.

Seriously.

Bouldercleave

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

maybe wait and see how it works before complaining about it?

TalonKnight wrote: »

I get making all content viable, but what is the point to grind levels, or CP, or upgrade your gear when u cant tell how strong u have become.

1 of the things that eso already did that i thought was just a really bad idea was the fact that u cant do older content cause there is absolutely no reward in doing so, meaning no way to farm lower lev gear or items. Couple that with no real unique set items dropping from individual dungeons like lets say from spindleclutch...." spider web weaved bow of hindrance", or some thing like that, that gives u a chance to encase a target in a web while u stay back and fire arrows at them.

Which if u could run that said dungeon at lev it was intended to be ran at, i think was lev 12-16. Then u could go back run the dungeon and get that rare drop for lets say an alt, or better yet add a transmog system in to get the look of that said cool looking spindleclutch bow for your current character.

Any way im getting off topic, the thing is gaining strength in an mmo is all about going back to that 1 raid that u couldnt get passed, and running it by yourself to just get that cool gear that u, or maybe your group wasnt skilled enough to get.

or going back and stomping the crap out of that world boss that used to bug u.

Ok walls of text suck, but the truth is why level? whats the the point.... 1 Tamriel is not a good idea, not to mention not being able to go back and 1 man older content, cause even at this point if u did let us go back we would still b too high of a level to get any gear from the enemies we would fight let alone there not being any cool sets that drop from those dungeons.

On a side note implementing any of these ideas is absolutely worthless unless ZOS fixes the current state of the game....

So your REAL issue is summed up in your last line, although to get there you created an issue from something that doesn't even exist yet.

If you wanted to make a jab at the "state of the game" and for ZoS to fix current bugs before rolling out changes, just say it.

Divinius

wolfydog wrote: »

Levels still matter. Take a level 1 into any DLC zone and you'll have a pretty tough time of it. Even though youll be battle leveld up, as a new player or just new toon, you still wont have any skill points and morphs for skills unlocked.

Even as the game is now, make a noob and don't spend any champion points, the game is more challenging, same noob with 300+ champ points and you really take on anything.

This is true, and also exactly why I think One Tamriel is a horrible idea.

As I understand it the plan is to basically make all zones act like DLC zones. Everything and everyone is scaled up. It's done like this for the intent of making it so level 3 newbs can play alongside CP-160 players, and enjoy content together. The problem is that the content is going to be far more challenging to the level 3 than the CP-160 guy, even though the Level 3 is scaled up. That's the exact opposite of how games are supposed to work.

Relative difficulty should scale up, not down. Expecting a brand new player with no skills (and I mean both in-game skills, and real-life player skill) to do the same content as a long time player is very backwards. A new player is going to struggle far more than they do now, and if they make the zones any easier, the pro is going to yawn at the complete lack of difficulty.

I'm hoping they are taking this into account and will do something to prevent issues, but I remain unconvinced of ZOS's ability to properly implement something of this nature.

Phica_Lovic

TalonKnight wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

JustSnilloc wrote: »

TalonKnight wrote: »

Ok walls of text suck, but the truth is why level? whats the the point

Skills? Access to better gear?

OP wants it all instant. Considering how fast leveling is I see no reason to complain about it. Besides, if leveling was instant then people would complain about leveling certain skill line and such. Some will always complain because it takes a little time.

Dude heres an idea, how about u actually read the others posts made so u understand the conversation of others, and my other responses b4 u make your hasty replies.

If lets say u did read some of my other comments u would know that i play wow, and thats a very grindy game in a sense, so say something constructive or get off the forums.

What the *** does you saying you played WoW have to do with ESO? So if you could 1 man Narieneth on Vet in a few updates, that's quality and fun for you?

Or please, tell more ppl to listen to you, get off the forums, or use even less punctuation and sentence structure. Good talk.

Phica_Lovic

Of course, I'm sure you PTS and have adequate evidence and experience. What CP are you?