Seriously...

Forestd16b14_ESO

Seriously.... Another gold pledge done and got a shoulder piece again..... With prosperous .... past 5 gold pledges got a shoulder piece even the one I am looking for........ with prosperous ........

Seriously Zenimax what is the thought process on adding new player traits to end game gear ? You know what I am talking about.... training and prosperous.... those are traits players want on crafted gear for when they wanna farm and or grind not end game gear......

UltimaJoe777

You know they are removing them from the drop tables already right? It just hasn't happened yet. But yeah we gotta deal until then.

wayfarerx

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

You know they are removing them from the drop tables already right? It just hasn't happened yet. But yeah we gotta deal until then.

To my knowledge they are only removing them from the trials drops, not vet dungeons or undaunted chests. In any case I'm saving my keys in the hope that they come to their senses about this before update 12.

Thelon

we asked them to make this change months ago, when update 10 was on PTS, as other GMs can attest. Unfortunately, such a change does not sell boxes, hence:

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

But yeah we gotta deal until then.

redspecter23

Prosperous and Training never should have been added to set drop loot tables. This talk of removing them from the tables never should have been a thing. It's a shame so much wasted dev time was spent on adding something only to have it removed later because nobody at ZoS could realize how monumentally horrible the idea would be when it's so amazingly clear to players. This kind of disconnect is what drives people to wonder if ZoS is actually in touch with their own game.

UltimaJoe777

wayfarerx wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

You know they are removing them from the drop tables already right? It just hasn't happened yet. But yeah we gotta deal until then.

To my knowledge they are only removing them from the trials drops, not vet dungeons or undaunted chests. In any case I'm saving my keys in the hope that they come to their senses about this before update 12.

I checked the thread Jessica made and honestly it doesn't actually mention the chests. Can we get some clarification on what will be inside of Undaunted Chests trait-wise @ZOS_JessicaFolsom ?

Forestd16b14_ESO

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

You know they are removing them from the drop tables already right? It just hasn't happened yet. But yeah we gotta deal until then.

To my knowledge they are only removing them from the trials drops, not vet dungeons or undaunted chests. In any case I'm saving my keys in the hope that they come to their senses about this before update 12.

I checked the thread Jessica made and honestly it doesn't actually mention the chests. Can we get some clarification on what will be inside of Undaunted Chests trait-wise @ZOS_JessicaFolsom ?[/quote]

Please s]to hawt[/s remove it from all end game gear.

UltimaJoe777

Well they plan to remove it from Trials and Leaderboards for sure but the thread mentions all traits dropping for sets in overland and dungeons. Perhaps they intend to treat the chests as part of overland?

Lysette

redspecter23 wrote: »

Prosperous and Training never should have been added to set drop loot tables. This talk of removing them from the tables never should have been a thing. It's a shame so much wasted dev time was spent on adding something only to have it removed later because nobody at ZoS could realize how monumentally horrible the idea would be when it's so amazingly clear to players. This kind of disconnect is what drives people to wonder if ZoS is actually in touch with their own game.

i guess playing on a dev account is a bit like having console enabled in Bethesda game - if something is unpleasant, you can just open console and change it and done - having such an ability leads quickly to a disconnect from what the game is like for someone not having this "quick fix" opportunity. I am just wondering how many players find excuses in Bethesda games for opening the console and using "player.additem f 5000" to gain some money and say to themselves - well, I could have farmed all night, and then I would have that - but they didn't, this is just a self-deception - and this can be for Devs just like this, if they go around the unpleasant parts with such a cheat. And so they do not experience the frustration by themselves.

UltimaJoe777

redspecter23 wrote: »

Prosperous and Training never should have been added to set drop loot tables. This talk of removing them from the tables never should have been a thing. It's a shame so much wasted dev time was spent on adding something only to have it removed later because nobody at ZoS could realize how monumentally horrible the idea would be when it's so amazingly clear to players. This kind of disconnect is what drives people to wonder if ZoS is actually in touch with their own game.

Making a LOT of assumptions here. Yes, Zenimax staff does play their own game, but they are a handful of people with their own opinions of things as opposed to so, SO many more.

Forestd16b14_ESO

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Prosperous and Training never should have been added to set drop loot tables. This talk of removing them from the tables never should have been a thing. It's a shame so much wasted dev time was spent on adding something only to have it removed later because nobody at ZoS could realize how monumentally horrible the idea would be when it's so amazingly clear to players. This kind of disconnect is what drives people to wonder if ZoS is actually in touch with their own game.

Making a LOT of assumptions here. Yes, Zenimax staff does play their own game, but they are a handful of people with their own opinions of things as opposed to so, SO many more.

So ZoS doesn't even listen to their own opinions...... Like really if a co-workers had some opinions or concerns about something you better listen.

UltimaJoe777

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Prosperous and Training never should have been added to set drop loot tables. This talk of removing them from the tables never should have been a thing. It's a shame so much wasted dev time was spent on adding something only to have it removed later because nobody at ZoS could realize how monumentally horrible the idea would be when it's so amazingly clear to players. This kind of disconnect is what drives people to wonder if ZoS is actually in touch with their own game.

Making a LOT of assumptions here. Yes, Zenimax staff does play their own game, but they are a handful of people with their own opinions of things as opposed to so, SO many more.

So ZoS doesn't even listen to their own opinions...... Like really if a co-workers had some opinions or concerns about something you better listen.

It's not that. If they ALL feel it is ok, as players, to have it like that then anything said and done otherwise comes from the playerbase, but only after said playerbase tells them so.

SleepyTroll

My favorite thing about the hole trait thing is that by ZOS logic only pvp players want impen because all they use is impen. Yet I get training and prosperous pvp gear, why the *** would I ever want a prosperous hawk eye piece? Why zos?

redspecter23

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Prosperous and Training never should have been added to set drop loot tables. This talk of removing them from the tables never should have been a thing. It's a shame so much wasted dev time was spent on adding something only to have it removed later because nobody at ZoS could realize how monumentally horrible the idea would be when it's so amazingly clear to players. This kind of disconnect is what drives people to wonder if ZoS is actually in touch with their own game.

Making a LOT of assumptions here. Yes, Zenimax staff does play their own game, but they are a handful of people with their own opinions of things as opposed to so, SO many more.

So ZoS doesn't even listen to their own opinions...... Like really if a co-workers had some opinions or concerns about something you better listen.

It's not that. If they ALL feel it is ok, as players, to have it like that then anything said and done otherwise comes from the playerbase, but only after said playerbase tells them so.

That's my point exactly. If none of the devs ever saw training and prosperous as a bad thing on end game loot drops and only the playerbase could tell them later, that's the sort of disconnect that drives bad decisions. They can't actually see what a bad decision is due to their narrow gaming experience or perhaps tunnel vision based on other changes they are pushing through. Once the playerbase overwhelmingly responds in a negative way to a proposed change, they need to take that criticism to the dev that is in charge of such a change and act accordingly. Yes, sometimes there are unpopular changes that still make some sense. Training and prosperous end game drops are so universally despised among the player base that one wonders how it ever could have been considered a good idea by anyone that knows anything about the game. This causes negative feelings toward the development team making players think they have no clue and lowers player faith in the dev team. That is not a good thing.

Armitas

When I do a IC dungeon I wait till the end to check my loot so I can take note of the trait chance...its always almost all prosperous. I strongly believe the chance for prosperous is higher than other traits.

Forestd16b14_ESO

redspecter23 wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Prosperous and Training never should have been added to set drop loot tables. This talk of removing them from the tables never should have been a thing. It's a shame so much wasted dev time was spent on adding something only to have it removed later because nobody at ZoS could realize how monumentally horrible the idea would be when it's so amazingly clear to players. This kind of disconnect is what drives people to wonder if ZoS is actually in touch with their own game.

Making a LOT of assumptions here. Yes, Zenimax staff does play their own game, but they are a handful of people with their own opinions of things as opposed to so, SO many more.

So ZoS doesn't even listen to their own opinions...... Like really if a co-workers had some opinions or concerns about something you better listen.

It's not that. If they ALL feel it is ok, as players, to have it like that then anything said and done otherwise comes from the playerbase, but only after said playerbase tells them so.

That's my point exactly. If none of the devs ever saw training and prosperous as a bad thing on end game loot drops and only the playerbase could tell them later, that's the sort of disconnect that drives bad decisions. They can't actually see what a bad decision is due to their narrow gaming experience or perhaps tunnel vision based on other changes they are pushing through. Once the playerbase overwhelmingly responds in a negative way to a proposed change, they need to take that criticism to the dev that is in charge of such a change and act accordingly. Yes, sometimes there are unpopular changes that still make some sense. Training and prosperous end game drops are so universally despised among the player base that one wonders how it ever could have been considered a good idea by anyone that knows anything about the game. This causes negative feelings toward the development team making players think they have no clue and lowers player faith in the dev team. That is not a good thing.

Exactly cause new player traits on end game gear isn't the only negative feed back players have said and ZoS did nothign about *cough cough* wraith *cough cough*

starkerealm

Honestly? Endgame sets should have fixed traits. Just as a part of the set itself. We shouldn't be asked to roll the dice on this stuff.

More than that? Monster sets shouldn't be split by weight. They should either have a fixed weight for that piece, or they should function as a kind of master-of-all and count as a single piece of equipped armor of all three weights for the purpose of scaling passives, but not the 5 of a kind passives.

idk

starkerealm wrote: »

Honestly? Endgame sets should have fixed traits. Just as a part of the set itself. We shouldn't be asked to roll the dice on this stuff.

More than that? Monster sets shouldn't be split by weight. They should either have a fixed weight for that piece, or they should function as a kind of master-of-all and count as a single piece of equipped armor of all three weights for the purpose of scaling passives, but not the 5 of a kind passives.

The trait pool needs to be reduced but not restricted to having only one trait available. Merely removing training and prosperous is sufficient. In PvP some will want other traits than in PvE.

As for different weights. That should remain. It needs to be a specific weight for both armor bonus and undaunted passives. No way around that.

starkerealm

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Honestly? Endgame sets should have fixed traits. Just as a part of the set itself. We shouldn't be asked to roll the dice on this stuff.

More than that? Monster sets shouldn't be split by weight. They should either have a fixed weight for that piece, or they should function as a kind of master-of-all and count as a single piece of equipped armor of all three weights for the purpose of scaling passives, but not the 5 of a kind passives.

The trait pool needs to be reduced but not restricted to having only one trait available. Merely removing training and prosperous is sufficient. In PvP some will want other traits than in PvE.

As for different weights. That should remain. It needs to be a specific weight for both armor bonus and undaunted passives. No way around that.

Honestly, the take it or leave it approach would do away with this entire conversation. We'd no longer see stuff like, "I got this drop, except it's not BiS." I mean, yes, there would be complaints. But it would end up in the range of complaining that you don't like the 2pc bonus on a given set, rather than you getting stiffed by a terrible roll.

I mean, we've already seen people going, trial gear should all be either divines or infused. At that point, why not simply turn it into a take it or leave it?

And, yes, on the weight thing, that's exactly what I'm talking about faking out. You have a piece of armor that counts as light, medium, and heavy, for the purpose of the undaunted passive, and your armor passives, rather than rolling the dice and hoping for the right weight, in addition to it not being impen, training, prosperous, or well-fitted.

altemriel

youuuuuuuu shaaaaaalllll beeeee prosperouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuusssssssssssssssss

idk

starkerealm wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Honestly? Endgame sets should have fixed traits. Just as a part of the set itself. We shouldn't be asked to roll the dice on this stuff.

More than that? Monster sets shouldn't be split by weight. They should either have a fixed weight for that piece, or they should function as a kind of master-of-all and count as a single piece of equipped armor of all three weights for the purpose of scaling passives, but not the 5 of a kind passives.

The trait pool needs to be reduced but not restricted to having only one trait available. Merely removing training and prosperous is sufficient. In PvP some will want other traits than in PvE.

As for different weights. That should remain. It needs to be a specific weight for both armor bonus and undaunted passives. No way around that.

Honestly, the take it or leave it approach would do away with this entire conversation. We'd no longer see stuff like, "I got this drop, except it's not BiS." I mean, yes, there would be complaints. But it would end up in the range of complaining that you don't like the 2pc bonus on a given set, rather than you getting stiffed by a terrible roll.

I mean, we've already seen people going, trial gear should all be either divines or infused. At that point, why not simply turn it into a take it or leave it?

And, yes, on the weight thing, that's exactly what I'm talking about faking out. You have a piece of armor that counts as light, medium, and heavy, for the purpose of the undaunted passive, and your armor passives, rather than rolling the dice and hoping for the right weight, in addition to it not being impen, training, prosperous, or well-fitted.

Not correct. Honestly not. With your line of thinking they might as well make the game into the boring design wow and SWTOR are.

If they chose a trait other than BiS then you'd get complaints. You'd get complaints from the same people as now plus more.

Additionally it would make so many drop sets worthless if they chose the wrong trait and make crafting do important. And faking out. Oh no. Not even going there.

Simply put, your wrong on many levels.

starkerealm

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Honestly? Endgame sets should have fixed traits. Just as a part of the set itself. We shouldn't be asked to roll the dice on this stuff.

More than that? Monster sets shouldn't be split by weight. They should either have a fixed weight for that piece, or they should function as a kind of master-of-all and count as a single piece of equipped armor of all three weights for the purpose of scaling passives, but not the 5 of a kind passives.

The trait pool needs to be reduced but not restricted to having only one trait available. Merely removing training and prosperous is sufficient. In PvP some will want other traits than in PvE.

As for different weights. That should remain. It needs to be a specific weight for both armor bonus and undaunted passives. No way around that.

Honestly, the take it or leave it approach would do away with this entire conversation. We'd no longer see stuff like, "I got this drop, except it's not BiS." I mean, yes, there would be complaints. But it would end up in the range of complaining that you don't like the 2pc bonus on a given set, rather than you getting stiffed by a terrible roll.

I mean, we've already seen people going, trial gear should all be either divines or infused. At that point, why not simply turn it into a take it or leave it?

And, yes, on the weight thing, that's exactly what I'm talking about faking out. You have a piece of armor that counts as light, medium, and heavy, for the purpose of the undaunted passive, and your armor passives, rather than rolling the dice and hoping for the right weight, in addition to it not being impen, training, prosperous, or well-fitted.

Not correct. Honestly not. With your line of thinking they might as well make the game into the boring design wow and SWTOR are.

If they chose a trait other than BiS then you'd get complaints. You'd get complaints from the same people as now plus more.

Additionally it would make so many drop sets worthless if they chose the wrong trait and make crafting do important.

Simply put, your wrong on many levels.

You say that like most drop sets aren't completely worthless as is.

Ironically, they've already gone to a fixed trait system for jewelry drops, because nobody wants healthy willpower or arcane agility rings. So, it's not like this idea is completely without precedence in this game.

KingMagaw

These traits were added i think because there is little to no end game in ESO, apart from PvP, which most know to be a mess with exploiting and cheating going on daily coupled with ZOS inaction to combat it and rescinding permabans to blatant cheaters..


If it took you a set amount of runs or any enhancement for you to get the gear you want, more time would be spent playing with said gear (most likely PvP) and i think a lot would get discouraged faster from the game as you have the gear you want but when you try and play with it, now that is the issue ))

Also keeps a lot of players re-farming the same content over and over and keeps the sub running that bit longer in mindless farm before you actually encounter CheatEngine/Exploiting in PvP ))

starkerealm

KingMagaw wrote: »

These traits were added i think because there is little to no end game in ESO, apart from PvP, which most know to be a mess with exploiting and cheating going on daily coupled with ZOS inaction to combat it and rescinding permabans to blatant cheaters..

This was, specifically, the idea behind monster sets. Though, why they decided there needed to be 24 versions of every single monster set item in the game...

Lysette

Armitas wrote: »

When I do a IC dungeon I wait till the end to check my loot so I can take note of the trait chance...its always almost all prosperous. I strongly believe the chance for prosperous is higher than other traits.

Even worse is, who wants prosperous at all?- this is not even something nice for lower level players - to get a minor percentage of nearly nothing is not any encouraging to use this trait - it is a joke and feels like being trolled by ZOS.

idk

starkerealm wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Honestly? Endgame sets should have fixed traits. Just as a part of the set itself. We shouldn't be asked to roll the dice on this stuff.

More than that? Monster sets shouldn't be split by weight. They should either have a fixed weight for that piece, or they should function as a kind of master-of-all and count as a single piece of equipped armor of all three weights for the purpose of scaling passives, but not the 5 of a kind passives.

The trait pool needs to be reduced but not restricted to having only one trait available. Merely removing training and prosperous is sufficient. In PvP some will want other traits than in PvE.

As for different weights. That should remain. It needs to be a specific weight for both armor bonus and undaunted passives. No way around that.

Honestly, the take it or leave it approach would do away with this entire conversation. We'd no longer see stuff like, "I got this drop, except it's not BiS." I mean, yes, there would be complaints. But it would end up in the range of complaining that you don't like the 2pc bonus on a given set, rather than you getting stiffed by a terrible roll.

I mean, we've already seen people going, trial gear should all be either divines or infused. At that point, why not simply turn it into a take it or leave it?

And, yes, on the weight thing, that's exactly what I'm talking about faking out. You have a piece of armor that counts as light, medium, and heavy, for the purpose of the undaunted passive, and your armor passives, rather than rolling the dice and hoping for the right weight, in addition to it not being impen, training, prosperous, or well-fitted.

Not correct. Honestly not. With your line of thinking they might as well make the game into the boring design wow and SWTOR are.

If they chose a trait other than BiS then you'd get complaints. You'd get complaints from the same people as now plus more.

Additionally it would make so many drop sets worthless if they chose the wrong trait and make crafting do important.

Simply put, your wrong on many levels.

You say that like most drop sets aren't completely worthless as is.

Ironically, they've already gone to a fixed trait system for jewelry drops, because nobody wants healthy willpower or arcane agility rings. So, it's not like this idea is completely without precedence in this game.

Personally I think you just want to argue for the sake of arguing cause arguments and lack of logic are sad.

Oh. And many of the best sets in the game are drops. I care less about the weak comment that most sets are garbage since it really is meaningless generalization.

Cya. Will be leaving this thread.

starkerealm

Lysette wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

When I do a IC dungeon I wait till the end to check my loot so I can take note of the trait chance...its always almost all prosperous. I strongly believe the chance for prosperous is higher than other traits.

Even worse is, who wants prosperous at all?- this is not even something nice for lower level players - to get a minor percentage of nearly nothing is not any encouraging to use this trait - it is a joke and feels like being trolled by ZOS.

If it applied to all gold gained, including from vendoring crap, or fencing items...

You know, that's the weird thing, this trait would be considerably more useful if it only applied to fencing.

SanTii.92

Oh come on.. Another one of these? Is this that terrible? Forums have been loud and clear already, let's wait for a zos response and move on.

Necrelios

redspecter23 wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Prosperous and Training never should have been added to set drop loot tables. This talk of removing them from the tables never should have been a thing. It's a shame so much wasted dev time was spent on adding something only to have it removed later because nobody at ZoS could realize how monumentally horrible the idea would be when it's so amazingly clear to players. This kind of disconnect is what drives people to wonder if ZoS is actually in touch with their own game.

Making a LOT of assumptions here. Yes, Zenimax staff does play their own game, but they are a handful of people with their own opinions of things as opposed to so, SO many more.

So ZoS doesn't even listen to their own opinions...... Like really if a co-workers had some opinions or concerns about something you better listen.

It's not that. If they ALL feel it is ok, as players, to have it like that then anything said and done otherwise comes from the playerbase, but only after said playerbase tells them so.

That's my point exactly. If none of the devs ever saw training and prosperous as a bad thing on end game loot drops and only the playerbase could tell them later, that's the sort of disconnect that drives bad decisions. They can't actually see what a bad decision is due to their narrow gaming experience or perhaps tunnel vision based on other changes they are pushing through. Once the playerbase overwhelmingly responds in a negative way to a proposed change, they need to take that criticism to the dev that is in charge of such a change and act accordingly. Yes, sometimes there are unpopular changes that still make some sense. Training and prosperous end game drops are so universally despised among the player base that one wonders how it ever could have been considered a good idea by anyone that knows anything about the game. This causes negative feelings toward the development team making players think they have no clue and lowers player faith in the dev team. That is not a good thing.

I would say it probably wasn't a conscious decision to add prosperous and training. When loot items are auto generated the trait is just randomly picked from a list of all available traits and every portion of the game probably just uses this same default list of available traits. At the pace they work, which is really, really fast, pumping out new content each quarter, they more than likely just didn't think about it and how it would effect the player base.

The solution would involve changing the trait list for every item that drops in end game content, and adding a new list of available traits to work from. It is not a task I would envy .

starkerealm

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Personally I think you just want to argue for the sake of arguing cause arguments and lack of logic are sad.

Oh. And many of the best sets in the game are drops. I care less about the weak comment that most sets are garbage since it really is meaningless generalization.

Cya. Will be leaving this thread.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO, so, explain to me again, how awesome the Nightshade set is? How about Kyne's Flight? Savior's Hide? No? Well, what about Sithis? Oh, wait, yeah, that one's only useful for Fashion Scrolls, though not even that now. What about Soulshine? Magicka Furnace?

Yeah, there's a lot of garbage drop sets out there. Some of them are situationally salvageable, like Fjords or the Kyne sets. Most, not so much.

Forestd16b14_ESO

sAnn92 wrote: »

Oh come on.. Another one of these? Is this that terrible? Forums have been loud and clear already, let's wait for a zos response and move on.

Saddly only way for ZoS to make any changes that players actually want is to repost it over and over again and cry non-stop about it for months.