Questions of Argonians

Eporem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsdBMDUxOao

Beasts in Amber..Wake and Remember

could they be a memory of the Hist? what Argonians might have been before?

the lore of the Ruins of Mazzatun seems to connect to the Shivering Isles

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Amber

and so connects Sheogorath and Jyggalag?..(who recorded every detail of the world)

Totalitarian

Well, that massive Argonian in the dungeon, as we know, looks much like the Argonian Behemoth in Maelstrom Arena.

If that helps add to any possible Daedric connection.

Eporem

what was in the back of my mind were the Brothers of Strife

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Brothers_of_Strife

but after going through the quests of them again I do not think it would be what Argonians might have been before...

The Haj Mota..seem more suitable to this..

http://imgur.com/Y3TN3rZ

Though it may someday grow into a horrific face-eating behemoth, when it's young the Haj Mota Hatchling is undeniably cute. For a while, they are trainable, come when called, and happily waddle after their masters wherever they may go. Do not hand feed.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Murky_Time

Eporem

came across this...I thought so interesting!

http://tamrielvault.com/group/lore/forum/topics/argonians-and-grummites?xg_source=activity

it connects Argonians to the Shivering Isles.

and also came across an image of Jyggalag..



do his features look Argonian:)...Are the beast races connected to him.

Eporem

Totalitarian wrote: »

If that helps add to any possible Daedric connection.

The possibility would be the Root of Shivering Isles being connected to the Roots of the Hist? Would Sheogorath and Jyggalag have the same/shared memories.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Root

what I cannot seem to get out of my head is the Argonian in the beginning quests telling of the freeing of the spirits so they might flow to Aetherius..unless she was only referring to the Chimer spirits and the Argonian ones returned to the earth..roots, Hist.

Is the Sap of the Hist Tree the Blood of Argonians. Is this blood considered to be their Soul - their DNA

Eporem

Are these connected. Does the Hist tree named Tsono-Xuhil share the memory of the Xanmeers.



Art and Architecture
Before the Dunmer enslaved the Argonians in the Second Era, the Lizard Folk built and lived in grandiose pyramid structures they referred to as xanmeers and had wayshrines dedicated to the stars.[42][43] However, these were consequently abandoned for some unknown reason and the Saxhleel themselves can’t remember life in those times.[43] During the Second Era the Argonians of Shadowfen lived in huts made from mud, while those in Murkmire constructed settlements out of wood.[6] Because of this alarming change, some scholars doubt that the xanmeers were even built by the Argonians, who in their opinion merely claimed ownership of them. Feathers, bright colors, and lizard hides decorate the majority of their buildings and works of art.[3]
Argonians are said to be masters at the crafting of jewelry, which is sought after in many provinces.[44] The Argonians also seemed to be the pioneers in the arts of alchemy, as their alchemists in Black Marsh have long held that the moon phases dictate the precise positioning of Calcinators.[45]

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Argonian

Xinz'r

I'll answer here about origins of Argonians.

If you don't know, (D)Aedra and The Hist have the same the same ancestors, the Ehnolfey. Also, if you don't know it, Hist are completely sentient and very intelligent, and also, they were first sentient race to inhabit Tamriel, and at one point, they were living across whole Tamriel.
After other races started to arrive to Tamriel, Hist were scared of them being destroyed, since they are in form of a tree and cannot defend themselves, so they created Argonians to "see where their eyes cannot see and walk where they cannot walk", meaning to defend them.
Up to this day, The Hist rely on the Argonians to defend them, while Argonians rely on The Hist's wisdom to guide them.

So basically, if both Hist and (D)Aedra came from the Ehnolfey, and Hist created Argonians, they couldn't be made by Sheogorath.

And btw, I think I read somewhere that Jyggilag could be true form of Sheogorath, who was punished for something and became God of Madness instead of God of Order, and these two are at war ever since, Jyggilag trying to reclaim his realm back or something.

Eporem

Hi Xinz'r

Thanks for your reply..the Hist, Argonians, the Mnemic egg are such a mystery to me so I love reading of them and how they are viewed by others. These questions I ask seem to pop up when I do:) I like your view on how the Hist rely on the Argonians to defend them and the Argonians rely on the Hist for its wisdom.

When reading the lore of the root..

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Root

it just seemed that Jyggalag & Sheogorath since both are connected to the Shivering Isles are then somehow connected to the Hist and its roots.

and..

This is the latest article I have read of them, in case you are interested:) it makes me wish to read Umbriel as well.

http://argonians-of-skyrim.tumblr.com/

The latest question I seem to have is "What has happened to the Argonians artifact, the Mnemic Egg", is it still hidden in Skyrim somewhere.

ankhor8

@Xinz'r
'

Xinz'r wrote: »

I'll answer here about origins of Argonians.

1) If you don't know, (D)Aedra and The Hist have the same the same ancestors, the Ehnolfey.

2) Also, if you don't know it, Hist are completely sentient and very intelligent, and also, they were first sentient race to inhabit Tamriel, and at one point, they were living across whole Tamriel.

3) After other races started to arrive to Tamriel, Hist were scared of them being destroyed, since they are in form of a tree and cannot defend themselves, so they created Argonians to "see where their eyes cannot see and walk where they cannot walk", meaning to defend them.

4) Up to this day, The Hist rely on the Argonians to defend them, while Argonians rely on The Hist's wisdom to guide them.

Greetings Xinz'r
I deduce your intent to clarify is genuine, yet some statements here are incorrect, or from sources different then mine that I want to read.

1) Incorrect. It is stated in "The Anuad Paraphrased" that the Hist and the ehlnofey survived a war. The Hist had it's own realm "..a lush world, filled with sentient trees." Part of the ehlnofey land, landed on nirn: "A large fragment of the Ehlnofey world landed on Nirn relatively intact, and the Ehlnofey living there were the ancestors of the Mer." Part of the Hist realm landed on Nirn: "The Hist were bystanders in the Ehlnofey war, but most of their realm was destroyed as the war passed over it. A small corner of it survived to become Black Marsh in Tamriel, but most of their realm was sunk beneath the sea." http://truean-xileel.guildlaunch.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11109711&gid=496119

2) Yes, the Hist is sentient, yet there is no clear distinction of first. It is true that the ehlnofey split into the old ehlnofey and the wandering ehlnofey and then fought when meeting again on Nirn. The following quote highlights your statement regarding Saxhlleel residing throughout (Tamriel prior to mer and men).

3) Incorrect. "Exactly when and how the Argonians came to be is unknown, but they were already living in established preliterate tribal communities around the time the Aldmer first began exploring Tamriel.[4][2][5] The ancient Argonians were quickly and swiftly displaced by the more technologically and magically advanced Elder Folk, and were driven back into the swamps of their homeland." You stating the Hist fearing destruction and creating Saxhleel based on this fear is an acceptable personal theory, yet state it as your perspective unless you've read it in Tamriel. If you have read this, send me the reference. http://truean-xileel.guildlaunch.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11081566&gid=496119

4) It is true to state that Saxhleel guard and protect the Hist, yet the word "rely" is exaggerative. The actual power, ability, and influence of the Hist that we have read of, pales in comparison to the potential.
If the Creator has existed from the recording of time, it's unlikely that it needs it's creation. More likely it wants it's creation as an aspect of it's progression.

Clear Waters

Kierro

Eporem wrote: »

Totalitarian wrote: »

If that helps add to any possible Daedric connection.

The possibility would be the Root of Shivering Isles being connected to the Roots of the Hist? Would Sheogorath and Jyggalag have the same/shared memories.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Root

what I cannot seem to get out of my head is the Argonian in the beginning quests telling of the freeing of the spirits so they might flow to Aetherius..unless she was only referring to the Chimer spirits and the Argonian ones returned to the earth..roots, Hist.

Is the Sap of the Hist Tree the Blood of Argonians. Is this blood considered to be their Soul - their DNA

Hist Sap isn't the Argonian's blood, but the Hist's. Hist Sap contains the memories and souls of Argonians. So when a young Argonian licks the sap during his/her naming day, s/he could gain the memories (possibly the soul) of their ancestors. Because Argonians believe in reincarnations. If you burn the sap, you're destroying the Argonian people. Literally. When an Argonian dies, their soul returns to the Hist of their birth tribe, giving the Hist its memories to pass on to the next generation.

This actually helps with RP of my Argonian(s), because my ESO Argonian is the Ancestor of my Oblivion and Skyrim Argonians (Morrowind was father to Oblivion Argonian but had no relation to ESO Argonian). Because they're all his reincarnations.

dodgehopper_ESO

Kierro wrote: »

Eporem wrote: »

Totalitarian wrote: »

If that helps add to any possible Daedric connection.

The possibility would be the Root of Shivering Isles being connected to the Roots of the Hist? Would Sheogorath and Jyggalag have the same/shared memories.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Root

what I cannot seem to get out of my head is the Argonian in the beginning quests telling of the freeing of the spirits so they might flow to Aetherius..unless she was only referring to the Chimer spirits and the Argonian ones returned to the earth..roots, Hist.

Is the Sap of the Hist Tree the Blood of Argonians. Is this blood considered to be their Soul - their DNA

Hist Sap isn't the Argonian's blood, but the Hist's. Hist Sap contains the memories and souls of Argonians. So when a young Argonian licks the sap during his/her naming day, s/he could gain the memories (possibly the soul) of their ancestors. Because Argonians believe in reincarnations. If you burn the sap, you're destroying the Argonian people. Literally. When an Argonian dies, their soul returns to the Hist of their birth tribe, giving the Hist its memories to pass on to the next generation.

This actually helps with RP of my Argonian(s), because my ESO Argonian is the Ancestor of my Oblivion and Skyrim Argonians (Morrowind was father to Oblivion Argonian but had no relation to ESO Argonian). Because they're all his reincarnations.

How does this relate to the 'cut off' argonians I wonder.

Kierro

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

How does this relate to the 'cut off' argonians I wonder.

What don't you get? S/He clearly asked wtf was Hist Sap, and was it Argonian blood. I explained what it was... I'm not sure how that is confusing. Ok, I did put my RP stuff in there, but this thread IS in the RP section of the forum. If that's a problem, it should of been moved to LORE.

jarnkoldur

Argonians born far removed from the influence of the Hist do not function as normal argonians and thus are seen as lesser argonian. Indeed they are acknowledged as "lukiul," those removed of the "saxhleel;" although the terms has also gone to reference argonians whom also allow themselves to be absorbed into the cultures of other races.

Very rarely (if ever) does an argonian survive without the influence of the Hist. Even away from the Hist, argonian mothers are known to breastfeed, in order yield some of the influence of the Hist which dwells within them unto their children.

In conclusion all argonians born away from the Hist aren't saxhleel and would be strangers even amongst their own people. Thus inherently through no fault of their own except for being born and surviving, they embody the loneliest of individuals within Tamriel as they belong to no one except themselves.