Cradle of Shadows last boss ruins the dungeon

clocksstoppe

Just tried out Cradle. The bosses up until the last one were very fun, challenging, and well designed. The final boss however is a complete *** and nobody in my group managed to understand anything from the fight.

• Some adds oneshot you, the boss oneshots you regardless if you permablock or run, and there is no indication of what you can do to prevent it.
• Boss also has like 3 separate special attacks related to eating ultimate which we couldn't tell the significance of.
• The fight is extremely overloaded and confusing. I can clearly tell it was rushed out and poorly playtested.
• Ironically the only mechanic we managed to figure out in that chaos was the one for the gold pledge fight with the impaling.

Nice dungeon but completely ruined by the last boss fight.

Stillian

So just because YOUR group didn't manage to figure out mechanics you dare to declare that whole dungeon is ruined by lastboss?

clocksstoppe

Stillian wrote: »

So just because YOUR group didn't manage to figure out mechanics you dare to declare that whole dungeon is ruined by lastboss?

Let's hear your epic tactics then. And yes, ruined. The other bosses built up a nice experience until the garbage that was the final boss ruined it.

Stillian

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Let's hear your epic tactics then. And yes, ruined. The other bosses built up a nice experience until the garbage that was the final boss ruined it.

1st - What exactly did you struggle with? running backyard? You pick up the light from dead atro (using synergy standing on dead body) then moving within that light you go back to fight pit. There's an ahievement to do that without using the atro light, you can light braziers by coming to them and using synergy.
I dont remember any other "mechaincs" you need to deal with in there.
2nd - Did you expect to faceroll veteran dungeon?
3rd - Other groups (a lot of them actually) didn't have that much of a problems with understanding the mechanics. Maybe problem is not in the dungeon itself? Have you considered this?
4th - If YOUR experience of facerolling veteran dungeon in 1 evening has been ruined by YOUR group, how is that connected to dungeon? It is not ruined in any way.

Personally i think it should have been more harder. Only some of achievements will be challenging (well at least we have that)

Vaoh

We just had a thread asking to nerf Ruins of Mazzatun because they couldn't faceroll it. The real issue is they didn't put in any effort to learn mechanics.

In the case of Velidreth, there is no difference.

People have already posted videos of them defeating Velidreth. Look on Youtube and be enlightened. Stop asking for nerfs asap as a solution to content that mildy challenges you.

timidobserver

I am pretty surprised by this thread. My group wiped once to learn the mechanics and then finished it with little trouble. We were mildly disappointed by how easy the whole dungeon is. Other than the one shot mechanics you have to avoid, the mobs and bosses do very little damage.

Valn

Stillian wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Let's hear your epic tactics then. And yes, ruined. The other bosses built up a nice experience until the garbage that was the final boss ruined it.

1st - What exactly did you struggle with? running backyard? You pick up the light from dead atro (using synergy standing on dead body) then moving within that light you go back to fight pit. There's an ahievement to do that without using the atro light, you can light braziers by coming to them and using synergy.
I dont remember any other "mechaincs" you need to deal with in there.
2nd - Did you expect to faceroll veteran dungeon?
3rd - Other groups (a lot of them actually) didn't have that much of a problems with understanding the mechanics. Maybe problem is not in the dungeon itself? Have you considered this?
4th - If YOUR experience of facerolling veteran dungeon in 1 evening has been ruined by YOUR group, how is that connected to dungeon? It is not ruined in any way.

Personally i think it should have been more harder. Only some of achievements will be challenging (well at least we have that)

Well not everyone is as elitist as you, not everyone plays 16 hours a day and is epic leet at the game. Casual people who just wanna get their daily done are never gonna kill this boss. Your signature says it all tbh, no wonder you got that elitist attitude.

bubbygink

Valn wrote: »

Well not everyone is as elitist as you, not everyone plays 16 hours a day and is epic leet at the game. Casual people who just wanna get their daily done are never gonna kill this boss. Your signature says it all tbh, no wonder you got that elitist attitude.

Fine. Some casual players will never beat it then. What is the problem there? Should every single piece of content in this game be made so simple that a casual player can just pick up the controller and beat it willy-nilly without any thought or strategy? Of course not. It is a "veteran" end-game dungeon. The veteran mode is specifically designed for the more experienced, hardcore, end game players to give them a challenge and keep them coming back and playing the game. If you can not beat veteran, that is why normal exists. Normal is for the casual players.

Alcast

l2p issue.

Once you actually do understand the mechanics of the dungeon you will easily be able to beat it.

Stillian

Valn wrote: »

Well not everyone is as elitist as you, not everyone plays 16 hours a day and is epic leet at the game. Casual people who just wanna get their daily done are never gonna kill this boss. Your signature says it all tbh, no wonder you got that elitist attitude.

Then you have the normal version. Easy breezy, daily done, no struggling.

Contraptions

I personally don't find the current difficulty very fun. I would rather they tone down the difficulty to WGT and ICP levels, challenging/time consuming enough without being frustrating. I particularly don't like how their idea of challenge is basically to spam damage sponges and one-shots for all bosses. That's like the lowest kind of challenge, quite disappointing really.

Stillian

Contraptions wrote: »

I personally don't find the current difficulty very fun. I would rather they tone down the difficulty to WGT and ICP levels, challenging/time consuming enough without being frustrating. I particularly don't like how their idea of challenge is basically to spam damage sponges and one-shots for all bosses. That's like the lowest kind of challenge, quite disappointing really.

Current dificulty of IC dungeons allows you to complete them without healer with no problem, and if group is "elite" as 4dd. I really wouldnt like these new dungeons to be same faceroll.
Oneshots are best mechanics, because it makes you actually play it. If it doesnt 1shot you, you can ignore it.

Contraptions

Stillian wrote: »

Contraptions wrote: »

I personally don't find the current difficulty very fun. I would rather they tone down the difficulty to WGT and ICP levels, challenging/time consuming enough without being frustrating. I particularly don't like how their idea of challenge is basically to spam damage sponges and one-shots for all bosses. That's like the lowest kind of challenge, quite disappointing really.

Current dificulty of IC dungeons allows you to complete them without healer with no problem, and if group is "elite" as 4dd. I really wouldnt like these new dungeons to be same faceroll.
Oneshots are best mechanics, because it makes you actually play it. If it doesnt 1shot you, you can ignore it.

I'm not sure what caliber of players you usually group with, but for non "elite" players like most of us the IC dungeons are best done with a normal group composition. I really don't find the IC dungeons faceroll at all. Although I guess once someone has completed vMOL everything else feels like faceroll, eh?

But still, it is my opinion that the current dungeons are a bit too unforgiving (even if you do know all mechanics perfectly) and thus I hope they reduce the difficulty soon.

Nebthet78

Contraptions wrote: »

I personally don't find the current difficulty very fun. I would rather they tone down the difficulty to WGT and ICP levels, challenging/time consuming enough without being frustrating. I particularly don't like how their idea of challenge is basically to spam damage sponges and one-shots for all bosses. That's like the lowest kind of challenge, quite disappointing really.

I agree with you, the Vet Difficulty is set to where it is currently not fun to do. My only goal is to finish it once and NEVER, EVER go into it again!!

Casuals will most definitely not be able to finish.
No teamspeak... you gimp your group heavily because you have to react and work together.
Slow internet? ... gimp your group again.
Older Video Card? ... gimp your group again.
Don't Min/Max your Character .... gimp your group again.

I don't mind a challenge. But both new dungeons on Vet right now are a bit too strong for the "Average" player. I don't think they should be nerfed nearly as heavily as VICP and VWGT were nerfed, but I do think they should be dialed back about 10% on damage and health.

I spent 5 hours yesterday and went through a dps and a healer doing Vet Mazzatun. Got to the last boss. We got her down to 30% 20 times; 8% 4 times, but she would then throw a Totem and then give one of our other players an Acid Trip at the exact same time and because of that, with her constant release of the vines we would all die. We ended up stopping due to actual physical fatigue.

Maybe when everyone has 3600 CP the average player will be on par with the difficulty of the dungeon. But, now I know why the devs never ran the dungeon on Vet mode during any of the live streams, or unless they put themselves in God Mode.

Stillian

Nebthet78 wrote: »

I spent 5 hours yesterday and went through a dps and a healer doing Vet Mazzatun. Got to the last boss. We got her down to 30% 20 times; 8% 4 times, but she would then throw a Totem and then give one of our other players an Acid Trip at the exact same time and because of that, with her constant release of the vines we would all die. We ended up stopping due to actual physical fatigue.

Maybe when everyone has 3600 CP the average player will be on par with the difficulty of the dungeon. But, now I know why the devs never ran the dungeon on Vet mode during any of the live streams, or unless they put themselves in God Mode.

I was in vet mazzatun for 2nd time today, and i have no death and speed run achievements now. Quite shows the dificulty. Average group might have less damage, but not much, but on the same time, they are not supposed to do speed and deathless runs on their first tries.

Acharnor

I had seen this post and was concerned about the last boss. We went in with only one person having done it before. It took us three tries - I still don't know what was doing the super damage that wiped us all the first time. It occurs after the boss goes to the ceiling. The next time a couple of us survived and could rez others. It was a challenge to be sure but we made it. Maybe we got lucky.

chimneyswift_ESO

Acharnor wrote: »

I had seen this post and was concerned about the last boss. We went in with only one person having done it before. It took us three tries - I still don't know what was doing the super damage that wiped us all the first time. It occurs after the boss goes to the ceiling. The next time a couple of us survived and could rez others. It was a challenge to be sure but we made it. Maybe we got lucky.

That would be the "Spike Phase." It's super easy. When she climbs up, STOP moving. Everyone. Stand still and wait. If you move she'll detect you and hit you with a spike, so just wait. When the room turns from purple back to a normal color, look at your feet and the second you see the earth below your feet start to crack, roll dodge. It's super simple once you know what to do.

deathbyk1te

For difficulty, these dungeons felt a lot less hard then when vICP and vWGT were first released. It took my group months to even go in and attempt both after we kept wiping during the second and third bosses, respectively, in each dungeon. We'd even practically given up on vICP, but really, learning mechanics and having a group that is willing to listen to suggestions and change their play style if necessary is important. When no one is willing to work together or listen then you're going to have a bad time. If you're more of a visual learner, I made this video about the last boss. My group is by no means elite players or anything like that. We messed up more than a couple times during this fight. Hope it helps:

https://youtu.be/ljoukAh5uDo

Sweetpea704

timidobserver wrote: »

I am pretty surprised by this thread. My group wiped once to learn the mechanics and then finished it with little trouble. We were mildly disappointed by how easy the whole dungeon is. Other than the one shot mechanics you have to avoid, the mobs and bosses do very little damage.

Okay, so you were obviously playing normal then, since the boss was hitting me with a lot of damage.

Walties99

You might be having individual character build problems if you're struggling with this boss, or maybe it is designed for people who want to play more challenging content. I never watched a video or guide on this dungeon and cleared it on vet in under 30 minutes on 2nd try. Would have to be in your group to see what's going on but someone is doing something wrong if you can't beat it.

Brrrofski

Got these in xbox yesterday. Jumped straight into this. Took us about 3 hours but we got it done. We kept wiping to stupid mistakes like one pair would get lost, someone wouldn't dodgeroll etc

Why are you getting one shotted? Tank should keep aggro. I was tanking and don't think boss one shotted anyone.

magictucktuck

On Xbox we liked it we spent some time trying to figure out mechanics but we beat it last night on all our first run I thought it was fun

IwakuraLain42

Did our first run of vetCoS yesterday (couldn't finish it due to time constraints from some players).

First off, this is a fine dungeon, the boss encounters feel fresh and challenging, but not to difficult. The dungeon is very mechanic-oriented, esp. the end boss, the final final encounter has maybe to man mechanics. For the next dungeon maybe put a mechanics less on the end boss and instead put it on the other bosses ? Felt a little bit unbalanced.

Health & Damage of the enemies felt ok, although a few enemies very surprisingly tough (Bone Marrows in the boss fight for example).

Our healer complained about problems healing at the end boss, is there actually a debuff that we missed (execpt for the draining spheres) ? Draining spheres are annoying, but easily avoided.

Our biggest problem is when she moves up and you have to stand still till she comes back down. The telegraph showing you when to dodge is still very hard to see, esp. when playing it on a Console and the TV is a few meters back from the player. Even when when you know what to look for this is easily missed, combined with the less then stellar dodge implementation in the Controller GUI (where have to press Block+Action). While true for a few other telegraphs as well in this case (being a one-shot mechanic) this is very annoying. Please enhance the visual representation of the telegraph.

All in all, a very entertaining dungeon, even if we didn't finished it on the first try.

Brrrofski

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

Did our first run of vetCoS yesterday (couldn't finish it due to time constraints from some players).

First off, this is a fine dungeon, the boss encounters feel fresh and challenging, but not to difficult. The dungeon is very mechanic-oriented, esp. the end boss, the final final encounter has maybe to man mechanics. For the next dungeon maybe put a mechanics less on the end boss and instead put it on the other bosses ? Felt a little bit unbalanced.

Health & Damage of the enemies felt ok, although a few enemies very surprisingly tough (Bone Marrows in the boss fight for example).

Our healer complained about problems healing at the end boss, is there actually a debuff that we missed (execpt for the draining spheres) ? Draining spheres are annoying, but easily avoided.

Our biggest problem is when she moves up and you have to stand still till she comes back down. The telegraph showing you when to dodge is still very hard to see, esp. when playing it on a Console and the TV is a few meters back from the player. Even when when you know what to look for this is easily missed, combined with the less then stellar dodge implementation in the Controller GUI (where have to press Block+Action). While true for a few other telegraphs as well in this case (being a one-shot mechanic) this is very annoying. Please enhance the visual representation of the telegraph.

All in all, a very entertaining dungeon, even if we didn't finished it on the first try.

Think those orbs put a heal debuff on you. Felt like it was them anyway.

With her going in the air, your controller rumbles. That's how I knew to move.

IwakuraLain42

Brrrofski wrote: »

Think those orbs put a heal debuff on you. Felt like it was them anyway.

Sound plausible, maybe the green orbs put a damage debuff on you ? Might explain the problems I had with burning some of the adds ...

Brrrofski wrote: »

With her going in the air, your controller rumbles. That's how I knew to move.

Never had any rumble from my controller in the game (PS4) for the last year. Maybe there's some option I've missed, will look tonight. Thanks for the tip.

Brrrofski

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Think those orbs put a heal debuff on you. Felt like it was them anyway.

Sound plausible, maybe the green orbs put a damage debuff on you ? Might explain the problems I had with burning some of the adds ...

Brrrofski wrote: »

With her going in the air, your controller rumbles. That's how I knew to move.

Never had any rumble from my controller in the game (PS4) for the last year. Maybe there's some option I've missed, will look tonight. Thanks for the tip.

Well blue drained magica and green drained stam. So maybe a red one drains health or gives a heal debuff? When magica came up we had our stam dps try and get them as healer, on dps and me (sap tank) had a real hard time if they got us. Unfortunately for me, as I had the boss blocking most my few and as I was trying to grab aggro off everything, I ate them all the time lol. Sap tanking is pretty hard without magica

Yeh, check it. My controller vibrated. The ground does start cracking, but it is hard to see.

Tyrion87

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

Our biggest problem is when she moves up and you have to stand still till she comes back down. The telegraph showing you when to dodge is still very hard to see, esp. when playing it on a Console and the TV is a few meters back from the player.

I don't know how does it look on console but I assume that it's the same as on PC. So you don't want to wait for the red circle to appear in order to dodge roll when the boss is about to come back down. In most cases, especially on hardmode, the red circle is just too late to react properly. Immediately before the red circle you hear a sound of... "falling/crushing rocks" and also you can see some kind of a "cloud of dirt" appearing. That's the time to move. I always roll dodge when I hear that sound (it's before the red circle) and I'm always alive.

IwakuraLain42

Tyrion87 wrote: »

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

Our biggest problem is when she moves up and you have to stand still till she comes back down. The telegraph showing you when to dodge is still very hard to see, esp. when playing it on a Console and the TV is a few meters back from the player.

I don't know how does it look on console but I assume that it's the same as on PC. So you don't want to wait for the red circle to appear in order to dodge roll when the boss is about to come back down. In most cases, especially on hardmode, the red circle is just too late to react properly. Immediately before the red circle you hear a sound of... "falling/crushing rocks" and also you can see some kind of a "cloud of dirt" appearing. That's the time to move. I always roll dodge when I hear that sound (it's before the red circle) and I'm always alive.

I've never heard the sound (which is problematic any way as people on consoles usually communicate via voice chat), I actually was looking for the cloud of dust (not the red circle as that's to late), but that was hard to see on the dark floor. Also sitting directly on a PC monitor makes it probably easier to see then sitting a few meters from a TV screen.

What I did was pressing block when the screen turned reddish and then waited for slightest change on the ground when the light turned on again and immediately pressing action (that's the not so optimal dodge combo using controllers). While not perfect (you loose the regen ticks) that worked.