*PvE Trials Only* Magicka Sorcerer Build... Need some help !

Izaki

Greetings everyone,

I'm in the process of theorycrafting a Sorcerer PvE build that is a little different to what the current PvE Sorc Meta is. As most of you sorcs know by now that if you want to PvE you should slot both Bound Aegis and Inner Light on your bars. Note this is not a build for 4-man dungeons, its solely for the purpose of doing trials, so Overload use is entirely out of the equation. So let me tell you what I have trouble with understanding : will slotting 2 extra abilities namely Boundless Storm and Velocious Curse out perform the magicka bonus that Inner Light provides? I would have answered this question myself, if only I had been on PC, with the DPS meter tools etc. But I am on Xbox... Therefore I need your help as well as some advice !

First of all, I hate the fact of using solely 6 abilities out of the 10 available. So I want to take one toggle off my bars. Inner Light or Bound Aegis? Inner Light provides Major Prophecy and 7% max magicka, where as Bound Aegis provides around 3% mitigation, 2% spell damage and 8% max magicka. To me Inner Light is out, because Major Prophecy can be obtained through the use of potions, which we will be using anyway in order to gain the Major Sorcery buff.

So all in all, my bars should look like this :
Bar 1 : Inferno Staff :
- Crystal Fragments
- Force Pulse
- Velocious Curse
- Bound Aegis
- Mage's Wrath
- SHOOTING STAR

Bar 2 : Lightning Staff :
- Elemental Blockade
- Liquid Lightning
- Boundless Storm
- Bound Aegis
- Rearming Trap/Proximity Detonation
- ENERGY OVERLOAD

Everything is pretty self explanatory here. No shields because healers need to do something in trials, nothing to support recovery because those said healers will be running Siphon Spirit and Elemental Drain. Most fights are very "stack and whack on the boss" so Boundless Storm will be a damage dealer but also a defensive buff to bring the resistances to 16k. In thrash pulls I'll use Proxy Det instead of Rearming Trap, because crit damage will not matter as much during these.

Rotation should look something like this :
Potion > Boundless Storm > Rearming Trap > Liquid Lightning > Elemental Blockade > Velocious Curse > Force Pulse/Weave/Frags > Velocious Curse > repeat

Point is to keep Velocious Curse up all the time so its the first and last thing before and after a bar swap.

So this is my question. Will the 7% max magicka outperform the damage from Velocious Curse and Boundless Storm? Will someone on PC have the kindness to do a couple of DPS tests on Blood Spawn and post the results (along with the gear used)?

This leads me to another question...

With this set-up however, I do not know what gear sets to use. Molag Kena, Nerien'eth or Valkyn Skoria? Scathing Mage or Twice-Born Star? The complementary set will be a 3 piece Moondancer or Infaillable Aether, depends on which one I finish farming quicker. The weapons are obviously Maelstrom (don't have them yet in a decent trait, but this is theory crafting ).

I already have the answer to the monster helm question : Kena is very difficult to sustain with the 2 extra additions to the rotation, and with the help of @Asayre I managed to pick Nerien'eth over Valkyn Skoria (minimal DPS difference), as most bosses will be kept static by the tanks and the Lich Crystal is a great AoE. (I also have this one in Divines so it was really the obvious choice)

Now the pillar set of the build is a different story. Scathing Mage out plays Julianos according to Sorcerer Arithmagic, so I don't even consider it an option. With 71.2% critical chance and a fair number of direct damage attacks to proc Scathing Mage I will be benefitting from 516 spell damage pretty much constantly. But in trials with Aggressive Warhorn rotations I'm wondering whether Twice-Born Star with Thief and Shadow mundus stones will outplay that boost in damage. My main concern with using TBS is not having enough base damage, as Kena is not involved in this story to provide that big power boost on demand.
So TBS or Scathing Mage for this set-up?

I'm totally open to any advice on anything here ! (apart from obviously putting that damn Inner Light thing on my bar )

Thank you in advance for everything guys, I hope this is of interest to you and that if you do test this that it will not be a waste of your time !

EDIT :
I simulated roughly the damage outputs with both Scathing Mage and Twice-Born Star, on this character building site: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor
While it may not be entirely accurate, Scathing Mage seems to be the best option when its procced as both the average damage and the peak damage are higher.
With Scathing Mage the critical modifier was 106%, with Minor and Major Force buffs and 42 points into Elfborn. This set-up also gave 3662 Spell damage (Major Sorcerery and 4 Sorcerer Abilities slotted AKA 8%).
With Twice-Born Star the critical modifier was 124%. With this set-up I had 3012 Spell Damage.

Keep in mind that these were very very approximative tests. Conclusions were based on tooltip and some formulas from Sorcerer Arithmagic by Asayre.

Jsmalls

I really like this thread!

I hate the boring Overload meta for Sorcs (even if it is very effective with elegant jewellery and dual swords)

I don't think velicious curse is worth slotting, it isn't going to trigger scathing mage, and if you are adding it to your rotation you are missing out on a possible proc from pulse or frags. Unfortunately I don't think there is anything else worth adding so inner light it is? Also just use bound armor on your back bar, there is no need to keep inner light there anyways because you are dpsing on your front bar.

For the scathing vs TBS, I don't understand why people keep mentioning major and minor force when comparing the two? Do the two buffs get affected by the shadow? For example does the 35~% extra crit damage get effected by the 18% from the shadow? I guess it depends if it multiplicative or additive.

But if not then scathing should be the obvious choice, because you are getting that extra 35% crit damage 6% more of the time.

Also does Neirnith or Skoria proc scathing? Neirnith seems like it would don't as DoT where as Skoria sounds like it's direct which could possibly proc it.

Dracane

-So first off, you must remove bound armor. Why would you choose bound armor over magelight ?
The only benefit of bound armor is 1% more magicka and 2% more spell damage.
Magelight grant 10% more crit and a bit regen. I see you are using spell crit/power/potions. But magelight also only requires one slot. I would choose magelight over bound armor all day.

-Boundless storm and velocious curse will definately out dps bound armor by a significiant amount.

-Regarding your rotation: ALWAYS weave light attacks before and after EACH ability you are using. Light attack>boundless storm>light attack>trap>light attack>liquid L>light attack> Wall>light attack>Weapon swap and so on. Don't weave medium attacks between abilities, only with force shock.

Izaki

Dracane wrote: »

-So first off, you must remove bound armor. Why would you choose bound armor over magelight ?
The only benefit of bound armor is 1% more magicka and 2% more spell damage.
Magelight grant 10% more crit and a bit regen. I see you are using spell crit/power/potions. But magelight also only requires one slot. I would choose magelight over bound armor all day.

-Boundless storm and velocious curse will definately out dps bound armor by a significiant amount.

-Regarding your rotation: ALWAYS weave light attacks before and after EACH ability you are using. Light attack>boundless storm>light attack>trap>light attack>liquid L>light attack> Wall>light attack>Weapon swap and so on. Don't weave medium attacks between abilities, only with force shock.

I play without shields in trials remember ? So that 1320 extra resistance is very very helpful. I'm planning to slot 1 toggle on each bar anyway, so I prefer to stick with Bound Aegis, plus it will look pretty damn cool in the next update.

Thanks for the feedback, yeah I was too lazy to put light attacks in between each attack in the rotation, but yes I definetly will do that !

@jyates214b14_ESO Hey man I appreciate the fact you like this thread, this topic is a very heated one in my guild.
No Velocious Curse doesn't count as a DoT (neither does the Lich Crystal) anymore so it procs Nerien'eth and Scathing Mage (at least thats what I saw so far from the limited possible testing on xbox lol). The thing is curse hits very very hard, almost as hard a frag. My Frags hit for 35k my curse would hit for 30k (self buffs only!). So its an extra DPS ability that adds to C-Frags.

Okay the thing with TBS : crit damage is like crit percentage, its additive. So the shadow mundus + Minor Force = 30% more crit damage. Major Force is bugged it appears its multiplicatie. So in fact with only with TBS you achieve crazy crits like 50k Overloads (Elegance + TBS + Kena).

But if I use TBS, I would end up with very low base spell power : 2 349 unbuffed.
If I use Scathing I would lose out on 18% crit damage but gain 516 base damage.
Its very very difficult to see which one is better for this set up. I'm leaning towards average damage more so Scathing Mage.

Decado

The build I use makes use of both, it's a duel staff build with maelstrom on back bar,

Bar 1
Bound armour
Crystal frag
Force pulse
Velocious curse
Inner light

Shooting star

Bar 2
Bound armour
Liquid lightening
Wall of elements
Mages wrath
Inner light

Overload

Overload bar- you can have many different things in here since it's not used and we don't use overload on the fights

Rearming is obvious
Daedric mines is a good choice
Boundless storm also a good choice
Shields/ taunts and magicka dumps/streak can also go on here for varies trial tactics etc

Eweyhen

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

I really like this thread!

I hate the boring Overload meta for Sorcs (even if it is very effective with elegant jewellery and dual swords)

I don't think velicious curse is worth slotting, it isn't going to trigger scathing mage, and if you are adding it to your rotation you are missing out on a possible proc from pulse or frags. Unfortunately I don't think there is anything else worth adding so inner light it is? Also just use bound armor on your back bar, there is no need to keep inner light there anyways because you are dpsing on your front bar.

For the scathing vs TBS, I don't understand why people keep mentioning major and minor force when comparing the two? Do the two buffs get affected by the shadow? For example does the 35~% extra crit damage get effected by the 18% from the shadow? I guess it depends if it multiplicative or additive.

But if not then scathing should be the obvious choice, because you are getting that extra 35% crit damage 6% more of the time.

Also does Neirnith or Skoria proc scathing? Neirnith seems like it would don't as DoT where as Skoria sounds like it's direct which could possibly proc it.

If you play with frags and curse on the same slot, it does proc frags. Any ability has a 35% chance to proc frags

Dracane

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

-So first off, you must remove bound armor. Why would you choose bound armor over magelight ?
The only benefit of bound armor is 1% more magicka and 2% more spell damage.
Magelight grant 10% more crit and a bit regen. I see you are using spell crit/power/potions. But magelight also only requires one slot. I would choose magelight over bound armor all day.

-Boundless storm and velocious curse will definately out dps bound armor by a significiant amount.

-Regarding your rotation: ALWAYS weave light attacks before and after EACH ability you are using. Light attack>boundless storm>light attack>trap>light attack>liquid L>light attack> Wall>light attack>Weapon swap and so on. Don't weave medium attacks between abilities, only with force shock.

I play without shields in trials remember ? So that 1320 extra resistance is very very helpful. I'm planning to slot 1 toggle on each bar anyway, so I prefer to stick with Bound Aegis, plus it will look pretty damn cool in the next update.

Thanks for the feedback, yeah I was too lazy to put light attacks in between each attack in the rotation, but yes I definetly will do that !

I play without shields as well as a DD.
But 1320 resistance won't make a difference in my opinion. It's not necessarily an amount that will decern if you die or live.
However if you appreciate it when you value such things. That's fine

Jsmalls

So if it's additive, Scathing would be better because you'd be taking advantage of those buffs 6% more of the time (minor and major force) while also having the extra 500 spell damage.

I'm currently running TBS, Kena, and elegant, but it's boring. So I'm also looking for an alternative. Been running ICP for scathing, have everything else listed for your gear setup, So once I get it I'll be taking it to Bloodspawn to test it out.

I was pulling 35 to 40k dps per second with only self buffs on Bloodspawn with TBS, elegant, and Kena, so I'm hoping that this setup would perform similarly.

Izaki

Dracane wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

-So first off, you must remove bound armor. Why would you choose bound armor over magelight ?
The only benefit of bound armor is 1% more magicka and 2% more spell damage.
Magelight grant 10% more crit and a bit regen. I see you are using spell crit/power/potions. But magelight also only requires one slot. I would choose magelight over bound armor all day.

-Boundless storm and velocious curse will definately out dps bound armor by a significiant amount.

-Regarding your rotation: ALWAYS weave light attacks before and after EACH ability you are using. Light attack>boundless storm>light attack>trap>light attack>liquid L>light attack> Wall>light attack>Weapon swap and so on. Don't weave medium attacks between abilities, only with force shock.

I play without shields in trials remember ? So that 1320 extra resistance is very very helpful. I'm planning to slot 1 toggle on each bar anyway, so I prefer to stick with Bound Aegis, plus it will look pretty damn cool in the next update.

Thanks for the feedback, yeah I was too lazy to put light attacks in between each attack in the rotation, but yes I definetly will do that !

I play without shields as well as a DD.
But 1320 resistance won't make a difference in my opinion. It's not necessarily an amount that will decern if you die or live.
However if you appreciate it when you value such things. That's fine

Well its 1 more chest piece pretty much, and I consider 16k resists being the minimum to avoid one shots.
I hate that ability too, don't get me wrong... Its just... I want to use sorc abilities not something everyone has access to.

Izaki

Decado wrote: »

The build I use makes use of both, it's a duel staff build with maelstrom on back bar,

Bar 1
Bound armour
Crystal frag
Force pulse
Velocious curse
Inner light

Shooting star

Bar 2
Bound armour
Liquid lightening
Wall of elements
Mages wrath
Inner light

Overload

Overload bar- you can have many different things in here since it's not used and we don't use overload on the fights

Rearming is obvious
Daedric mines is a good choice
Boundless storm also a good choice
Shields/ taunts and magicka dumps/streak can also go on here for varies trial tactics etc

Well here'sthe whole problem. You don't have space to put on Rearming Trap, or Boundless Storm or Proxymity Detonation for trash pulls.

BTW, does the Maelstrom Staff enchant still work if its on your off-bar?! If it does then there's a lot more room for item sets and that sweet 348 spell damage weapon enchantment on the front bar.

Izaki

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

So if it's additive, Scathing would be better because you'd be taking advantage of those buffs 6% more of the time (minor and major force) while also having the extra 500 spell damage.

I'm currently running TBS, Kena, and elegant, but it's boring. So I'm also looking for an alternative. Been running ICP for scathing, have everything else listed for your gear setup, So once I get it I'll be taking it to Bloodspawn to test it out.

I was pulling 35 to 40k dps per second with only self buffs on Bloodspawn with TBS, elegant, and Kena, so I'm hoping that this setup would perform similarly.

So the question is is 516 spell damage (~450 spell damage because of the proc) better than 18% crit damage. Average damage would be higher with Scathing but peak damage would be higher with TBS. You profit from Minor and Major Force less on Scathing than on TBS.

For more mobile fights I will probably use Skoria because the meteor locks onto your target rather. But for fights with multiple targets and not much mobility Nerien'eth is definetly better.

I might consider using Molag Kena, but to me it seems that the bugged cost increase (yes its 39% not 33% as the tooltip says) will be too much for the rotation. And obviously if I get a full Moondancer set (the jewelry + 2 body slots) I will use that over Kena, because in both situations the procs are great. But I still have a lot of farming to do in order to get my second ring for Moondancer...

Decado

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Decado wrote: »

The build I use makes use of both, it's a duel staff build with maelstrom on back bar,

Bar 1
Bound armour
Crystal frag
Force pulse
Velocious curse
Inner light

Shooting star

Bar 2
Bound armour
Liquid lightening
Wall of elements
Mages wrath
Inner light

Overload

Overload bar- you can have many different things in here since it's not used and we don't use overload on the fights

Rearming is obvious
Daedric mines is a good choice
Boundless storm also a good choice
Shields/ taunts and magicka dumps/streak can also go on here for varies trial tactics etc

Well here'sthe whole problem. You don't have space to put on Rearming Trap, or Boundless Storm or Proxymity Detonation for trash pulls.

BTW, does the Maelstrom Staff enchant still work if its on your off-bar?! If it does then there's a lot more room for item sets and that sweet 348 spell damage weapon enchantment on the front bar.

You change your bars for trash especially in places like maw, that's the best way to be as effective as possible,

And yes the maelstrom enchant is called crushing wall and if you cast it on your back bar it still applies when you weapon swap, PC users can use srendarr to see that,

And yes the idea is a staff with the spell damage enchant on your primary bar

Izaki

Decado wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Decado wrote: »

The build I use makes use of both, it's a duel staff build with maelstrom on back bar,

Bar 1
Bound armour
Crystal frag
Force pulse
Velocious curse
Inner light

Shooting star

Bar 2
Bound armour
Liquid lightening
Wall of elements
Mages wrath
Inner light

Overload

Overload bar- you can have many different things in here since it's not used and we don't use overload on the fights

Rearming is obvious
Daedric mines is a good choice
Boundless storm also a good choice
Shields/ taunts and magicka dumps/streak can also go on here for varies trial tactics etc

Well here'sthe whole problem. You don't have space to put on Rearming Trap, or Boundless Storm or Proxymity Detonation for trash pulls.

BTW, does the Maelstrom Staff enchant still work if its on your off-bar?! If it does then there's a lot more room for item sets and that sweet 348 spell damage weapon enchantment on the front bar.

You change your bars for trash especially in places like maw, that's the best way to be as effective as possible,

And yes the maelstrom enchant is called crushing wall and if you cast it on your back bar it still applies when you weapon swap, PC users can use srendarr to see that,

And yes the idea is a staff with the spell damage enchant on your primary bar

No no I meant when you slot both inner light and bound aegis you don't have direct access to Trap, or Boundless Storm
The overload bar is where I keep my basic recovery things, its the bar on which i run around in the dungeon
I slot Dark Conversion, Hardened Ward (Sanctum with all that poison), Power Surge for starting the fight and like you sid all those magicka dumps.

Izaki

So I went on and simulated both gear set-ups. Scathing Mage looks better even with Major force active. Peak Damage is higher and the average damage too. I'll edit the OP.

So far the best gear looks like Nerien'eth, Scathing Mage and 4 Moondancer on the front bar, with a Maelstrom Staff on the back bar.

I will try some stuff with Molag Kena but I do think that sustain will be near impossible with all these skills in the rotation. Velocious Curse alone is 3k Magicka every 4 seconds. Frags are bugged it seems as Molag Kena's cost increase applies to the base value and then is divided by 50%. Whereas it should really increase the cost of the already procc'ed Frag... But thats a debate for another day.

So Scathing Mage is THE best DPS set in the game for sorcerers it seems. Other classes like templars and nightblades may find more benefit in using TBS due to their crit damage increasing passives, but not sorcerers.