Is Stam Sorc too much?

kaithuzar

Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel Dark Deal makes stam sorc maybe a little too good because there is almost no worry of resource exhaustion; at least if you're a good player.

ScruffyWhiskers

The flood of FENGRUSH spawn does seem to be growing every day. Hell I'm tempted to roll an orc stam sorc after watching his role play stream last week and I've only ever played one flea bag Khajiit toon the whole time.

Izaki

It only took Hurricane, a decrease to shield duration and a modification in the way that surge works (note I didn't say nerf, because I don't feel that shields are any worse and because I prefer the way surge works now) for everyone to abandon their cookie cutter magicka sorcerer builds and switch over to stamina sorcerer builds. Most of em are @FENGRUSH or @Alcast builds. Don't get me wrong I love my stam sorc, but it used to be in the same situation as magicka DKs if not worse, so I gave up and went back to my magicka sorcerer. Now I can actually play on this character who's been banking for me for 6 months.

I find it ironic that people seem to think that stamina sorcerer is in a great place, simply due to the fact that the two said players are amazingly good at the class. So don't you cry for nerfs mate ! With 1 DPS ability and a coupe of support abilities, this class is far from overpowered. Its very good now for sure, but it relies on weapon skills more than any other class, including stam DKs (who are the best DPS in trials IMO). Dark Deal has it's flaws like the 1 second cast time during which you're vulnerable to everything and the fact that it can be interrupted. But its a very important skill for a stam sorc. Guess what? It just got buffed. Leave it be, please...

ScruffyWhiskers

Hehe, no I'm certainly not calling for a nerf. I do think it's pretty funny, ironic even that the red headed step child can morph into a demi-god so suddenly. And if I recall correctly, there were people making fun of @Wrobel and his "hurricane" descriptions. Turns out he knew what he was doing.

I tell you what though. It's hard as hell to cloak away from such a highly mobile AoE.

RebornV3x

The problem is Mag sorcs suck in PVP so the only way to stay competitive in PVP is to roll stam sorc either that or reroll to another class.

Brrrofski

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

It only took Hurricane, a decrease to shield duration and a modification in the way that surge works (note I didn't say nerf, because I don't feel that shields are any worse and because I prefer the way surge works now) for everyone to abandon their cookie cutter magicka sorcerer builds and switch over to stamina sorcerer builds. Most of em are @FENGRUSH or @Alcast builds. Don't get me wrong I love my stam sorc, but it used to be in the same situation as magicka DKs if not worse, so I gave up and went back to my magicka sorcerer. Now I can actually play on this character who's been banking for me for 6 months.

I find it ironic that people seem to think that stamina sorcerer is in a great place, simply due to the fact that the two said players are amazingly good at the class. So don't you cry for nerfs mate ! With 1 DPS ability and a coupe of support abilities, this class is far from overpowered. Its very good now for sure, but it relies on weapon skills more than any other class, including stam DKs (who are the best DPS in trials IMO). Dark Deal has it's flaws like the 1 second cast time during which you're vulnerable to everything and the fact that it can be interrupted. But its a very important skill for a stam sorc. Guess what? It just got buffed. Leave it be, please...

I was playing it since before IC and the recent changes have helped it massively. They are in a good place now.

Dark deal is good, but it has a cast time so unless you can create some severance it can get you killed.

ToRelax

It's neither as good as other stam classes, nor it is very fun to play anymore for me. The mobility is still a joke compared to 1.6, and relying on Dark Deal makes you horrible vulnerable.

Bromburak

kaithuzar wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel Dark Deal makes stam sorc maybe a little too good because there is almost no worry of resource exhaustion; at least if you're a good player.

That counts for every class and "little too good" is relative because among Hurricane it's the only active class ability
that really makes sense on a Stam Sorc.

One of the reasons why many Sorcs don't play Stam build on a long run and switch back to Magicka or try another class.
Players don't want to choose a class to end up with 2 skills only. That's simply bad design.

Many ESO players are sick of external abilities like 2H as Stamina workaround just because lack of class morph design.
The non existing diversity on Stamina builds is real but ignored by Wrobel.

kaithuzar

@Bromburak "Players don't want to choose a class to end up with 2 skills only. That's simply bad design."
Why does it seem like every time I die it's either "dawnbreaker/reverse slice" or radiant destruction.
I guess this means that every class is bad by design.

DocFrost72

If the issue is that you cannot interupt the only resource management system in the game that can be denied and is based off of your off resource, I'm going to say no to "looking at them". My magic tank thanks you in advance, since he already has to pick the perfect moment a boss isn't about to cave his skull in.

juhasman

kaithuzar wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel Dark Deal makes stam sorc maybe a little too good because there is almost no worry of resource exhaustion; at least if you're a good player.

It's 1 seconds cast time skill. You can inperrupt it by bashing or using interrupting skills. And according to fact mostly stam sorcs are melee that should not be hard to do ,,at least if You're a good player" .

Bromburak

kaithuzar wrote: »

@Bromburak "Players don't want to choose a class to end up with 2 skills only. That's simply bad design."
Why does it seem like every time I die it's either "dawnbreaker/reverse slice" or radiant destruction.
I guess this means that every class is bad by design.

Nope, it depends what the class it self has to offer in relation to external skills as explained in my previous post.

The reason why Wrobel recommends to play 2H in some cases is very simple, it's easier than improving class diversity by fixing class morphs that make sense depending on ressource ...

If you prefer Stam builds in general and have rolled your 3rd or 4th stam buil class and you come to the same conclusion that you end up with more 2H skills than class skills, it makes your class choice questionable over and over again.

It doesn't matter if a Stam Sorc is satisfied with Darkdeal and Hurricane and the changes to passives.
What matters is that it's not our job as players to find work arounds for active abilities depending on ressource, it's the job of designers to come up with solutions for proper class morphs to let players decide how to play instead telling them to f*ck off by recommending to use 70-80% non class skills on your slots.

Now compare this with a Magicka Sorc and you appreciate the freedom of choice depending on class skills.
That's the problem with ESO in general we actually don't pick a class, we pick a d*mn ressource and go from there.

I highly doubt that Wrobel ever thought about it.

Solariken

Stam Sorcs are NOT overpowered, they are in a really excellent place at the moment. I don't often sing a lot of ZOS praises, but they actually did a really good job with stam Sorcs this patch.

Jar_Ek

Having played a stamina sorcerer from the removal of soft caps and a melee sorcerer from before that I can say that stamina sorcerers are nearly as good as they were before soft cap removal... but with alot less options.

As for them them being overpowered, no. They are broadly comparable with some strengths and some weaknesses and a decent set of weapon options.

NoMoreChillies

been playing stam sorc since IC
its a good time to be one now, but far from OP

ShalidorsHeir

Stam sorc is the only class that is well balanced - i mean really perfect! It is far away from being OP and its definitly not too weak! DK is just easy OP god mode stuff, NBs are a way weak and stamplars are also okay, maybe a bit stronger than stam sorc cuz purges can be powerfull stuff. Its is really fine compared to both mana and stam builds. There should be some more options for stam sorc... not many stuff to explore and less class based skills that are usefull.
And ... Dark Exchange ... DAFUG?! its completly useless unless your are a tank for a dungeon. But this skill makes stam sorc comparable with stam DK who does not even need an "exchange skill" to not go out resources! For PvP and as DD this skill is wasted and just needed if you did NOT understand how to play stam sorc

ToRelax

ShalidorsHeir wrote: »

Stam sorc is the only class that is well balanced - i mean really perfect! It is far away from being OP and its definitly not too weak! DK is just easy OP god mode stuff, NBs are a way weak and stamplars are also okay, maybe a bit stronger than stam sorc cuz purges can be powerfull stuff. Its is really fine compared to both mana and stam builds. There should be some more options for stam sorc... not many stuff to explore and less class based skills that are usefull.
And ... Dark Exchange ... DAFUG?! its completly useless unless your are a tank for a dungeon. But this skill makes stam sorc comparable with stam DK who does not even need an "exchange skill" to not go out resources! For PvP and as DD this skill is wasted and just needed if you did NOT understand how to play stam sorc

Well Dark Exchange can be useful open world against bad players, but not so much against good ones who pressure you when might run out of resources, instead of letting you LOS and regen. Which is why it's really stupid to say Sorc would by competitive with anyone because of that skill.

mook-eb16_ESO

I don't get it, my stam sorc just dies all the time to stam nb. Cant enough weapon damage and sustain heals.I tried various sets builds weapons combinations all are inferior to NB.

ShalidorsHeir

dots OP + hurricane + doge roll against NB = awesome :P
or my heavy armor build which is fuging secret ^^

@ToRelax yeah that's it --> I just dont compare non-"strong-as-possible" builds because thats not the direction players will head to ... over time.

Patouf

Not too good !

StamKnight, StamBalde and MagPlar are better for PvP. Even, Magicka Sorc well played they have a insane burst range.

StamSorc have speed/hurricane counter the NB and have the best damage for the stam tools, but they can't do 1 vs X for example and are not the best for duels

ShalidorsHeir

wut?
you never duelled an awesome stam sorc ^^

kewl

Can we stop asking for nerfs and instead ask for help on how to counter?

Kas

kewl wrote: »

Can we stop asking for nerfs and instead ask for help on how to counter?

fasalla + reverb + be tanky yourself. make sure you have space on your ignore list for salty stamsorcs

ShalidorsHeir

damn right

Ahzek

Kas wrote: »

kewl wrote: »

Can we stop asking for nerfs and instead ask for help on how to counter?

fasalla + reverb + be tanky yourself. make sure you have space on your ignore list for salty stamsorcs

:<

kaithuzar

Kas wrote: »

kewl wrote: »

Can we stop asking for nerfs and instead ask for help on how to counter?

fasalla + reverb + be tanky yourself. make sure you have space on your ignore list for salty stamsorcs

Kas wrote: »

kewl wrote: »

Can we stop asking for nerfs and instead ask for help on how to counter?

fasalla + reverb + be tanky yourself. make sure you have space on your ignore list for salty stamsorcs

don't tell people to run that terrible build, that set never should have been released in game in the first place.

juhasman

Fasala... now when malubeth (lets hope) will be fixed/changed/ballanced we'll see more ,,NERF FASALA" threads .

kaithuzar

There are just certain builds that are considered relatively cheese. I like to duel & last I checked that set was banned in duels. If this game turns into everyone running fasalas & reverb bash spamming each other b/c it's OP, then this game will have hit a new all time low.
I've yet to see someone outside of magicka templar or magicka dk beat that build. Tell me more about how you want to screw over sorc's & nb's...

ToRelax

kaithuzar wrote: »

There are just certain builds that are considered relatively cheese. I like to duel & last I checked that set was banned in duels. If this game turns into everyone running fasalas & reverb bash spamming each other b/c it's OP, then this game will have hit a new all time low.
I've yet to see someone outside of magicka templar or magicka dk beat that build. Tell me more about how you want to screw over sorc's & nb's...

Why should a mag Sorc even care about that healing debuff?

kaithuzar

@ToRelax because they don't run health regen & typically are using healing bubble. So hardened ward can make the fight last 1 minute longer? Healing debuff affects EVERYONE.

ToRelax

kaithuzar wrote: »

@ToRelax because they don't run health regen & typically are using healing bubble. So hardened ward can make the fight last 1 minute longer? Healing debuff affects EVERYONE.

The damage that comes through from someone fighting me in Fasalla can easily be outhealed even when affected by healing debuffs, or when they are stacked to the extreme I can still hold out indefinitely until the Fasalla debuff is gone while not attacking myself. And if we are talking about group fights, I can be healed form other players under my shields anyway.

Do healing debuffs affect me? Yes. Do they affect me more than DKs or Templars? Quite the contrary.