Is Stam like playing on Easy Mode?

twistedmonk

Yes

As if the tower defense game in a huge, empty zone wasn't bad enough.

They made PvP even more bland which I didn't think it was possible.

All I see is 2-hander/bow cookie cutter builds. Bows plucking away, poison injection spamming, gap closing spammers and finishers.

I don't blame the players, it's clearly the best choice and you can have it all. sustain, survivability, high damage. And its way more fun and the animations are much better looking than any of the magic too.

The only anger I see from stamina users is when they come across a magic templar that they can't kill in 3 seconds.

kaithuzar

Yes

So there are maybe 12-13 different yes's in the comments & comparably around 7 no's.
Yet the poll shows that "no" is winning. This leads me to believe that people are just coming here & hitting a button without explaining their reasoning. Which brings the question of if they have any way of backing their decision with logic or not.
I guess I should have been more specific to ask for reasoning behind the decision chose.
Because at this point the poll is pointless because it looks like there are a ton of stam users hitting no saying "please don't nerf us even though we're the new op meta right now" & a ton of magicka & stam users saying "yes, it's unbalanced right now". sigh...

Sandman929

Yes

kaithuzar wrote: »

So there are maybe 12-13 different yes's in the comments & comparably around 7 no's.
Yet the poll shows that "no" is winning. This leads me to believe that people are just coming here & hitting a button without explaining their reasoning. Which brings the question of if they have any way of backing their decision with logic or not.
I guess I should have been more specific to ask for reasoning behind the decision chose.
Because at this point the poll is pointless because it looks like there are a ton of stam users hitting no saying "please don't nerf us even though we're the new op meta right now" & a ton of magicka & stam users saying "yes, it's unbalanced right now". sigh...

That's exactly what's happening.

Sandman929

Yes

No one wants to believe they're playing so well because the balance of power has shifted when it's so much more fun to believe that they're awesome.

ToRelax

No

Neither stam nor magicka builds are inherently easier to play than the other one. Both offer some low risk high reward or just easy to use stuff like snipe, steel tornado, gap closer spam, or overload, radiant destruction, BoL spam.

Once someone has an idea of what they are doing but is still lacking experience, it may be somewhat easier to survive on a magicka build due to their spammy or more accessible/reliable defenses like shields, heals, cloak or scales. Though I might be biased there, considering I played magicka for the first months of the game before even trying out stamina, and when I finally did, stamina was definitely a lot squishier still.

Jar_Ek

At the moment stamina is in a better place than magicka (but not massively), but in pve both are easy mode. In pvp, zerg is easy mode.

Aedaryl

Yes

Doncellius wrote: »

Let's break it down...right now, only the players in denial feel that Staminais in a bad spot compared to Magicka, which is really strange and kind of sad. -_-

Is it Easy Mode? No, not really. If you aren't a capable or strong player, you will suck just as much no matter what. In general it used to be more risky running Stamina. This has utterly changed in PvP.

Nowadays Stamina is very powerful, especially in a 1vX scenario if you know what you are doing. It trumps Magicka by a good margin too (hence, the current shift to a Stamina meta). The reasons for this are simple:

• Resolving Vigor is extremely powerful and low cost
- Big benefits from Major Mending

• Rally is extremely powerful with a burst heal
- Big benefits from Major Mending

• CC Break/Dodge roll cost increase.
- Magicka builds are no longer capable of dodge rolling more than one time or they will not have Stamina to CC break. If you don't have Tri-Food, then even one dodge roll is dangerous on most builds.
- Stamina gets so much reduction to roll dodge cost/CC costs the increase is negligible for the first 2 roll dodges. It is massive in this game.

• Dawnbreaker has switched to Stamina. Remember that it was always easier to stack damage on Stamina because of passives? Well, this is a beast of an Ultimate. Even some Magicka builds use it despite the damage no longer scaling for them. For Stamina. Dawnbreaker of Smiting is the king of Ultimates in PvP, with superior cost, a hard-hitting AoE CC, and massive damage burst with a secondary massive DoT.

• Shuffle is arguably the most powerful skill in game because is provides both dodge chance and snare immunity
- Snare/immobilization immunity is the best buff imagineable in 1vX, allowing you to maneuver with your Medium Armor buffed speed with ease. If on Stamplar (current strongest 1vX spec) you can also purify. When used correctly, you cannot get caught.

• Unchained allows you to cast Stamina skills for almost free after a CC break (so free Shuffle+Rally+other skill)

There are many other things, but the flexibility is what makes Stamina so strong. Magicka Templar is almost the only Magicka class you see around nowadays and that's mostly because of Malubeth, Reactive Armor, and some powerful healing+synergies that need to get checked.

THIS

Argonian_Jesus

No

Buff vigor and stamblades

Defilted

No

I find Stam characters challenging to PVP with, but I am not a great 8 hour a day dedicated player either. So I expect any chracter I play to be challenging in the PVP area.

With that said however, I have killed far more players with my Stam Sorc than I ever did with my Magica Sorc. This also holds true for my magika DK. I found the Mag DK extremely hard to effectively kill another player. I did kill some players with the Mag DK but not to any where the frequency I can with my Stam Sorc.

I still get rolled by Mag templars all the time. I can never escape the beam once it is on me. I can try streak away, but normally it is over once the EYE of Jesus is upon me.

I cannot kill NB's in 1 V 1. They are always invisible and always striking me and then going invis again. Not to mention if I do not see them coming they almost always kill me in 3 hits. No amount of vigor or streak can stop them from killing me. I could free base immovable pots and it would not matter.

So from my perspective the stam character is not a auto win character. I have found it to be enjoyable to play however which has made PVP just that much more fun.

AverageJo3Gam3r

Yes

My view is stilted, tho, because my two main characters are a stamDK and mDK.

AverageJo3Gam3r

Yes

Defilted wrote: »

I find Stam characters challenging to PVP with, but I am not a great 8 hour a day dedicated player either. So I expect any chracter I play to be challenging in the PVP area.

With that said however, I have killed far more players with my Stam Sorc than I ever did with my Magica Sorc. This also holds true for my magika DK. I found the Mag DK extremely hard to effectively kill another player. I did kill some players with the Mag DK but not to any where the frequency I can with my Stam Sorc.

I still get rolled by Mag templars all the time. I can never escape the beam once it is on me. I can try streak away, but normally it is over once the EYE of Jesus is upon me.

I cannot kill NB's in 1 V 1. They are always invisible and always striking me and then going invis again. Not to mention if I do not see them coming they almost always kill me in 3 hits. No amount of vigor or streak can stop them from killing me. I could free base immovable pots and it would not matter.

So from my perspective the stam character is not a auto win character. I have found it to be enjoyable to play however which has made PVP just that much more fun.

Use venom arrow to interrupt Jesus beam, or just bash them.

Strider_Roshin

No

So let me get this straight. One stamina user killing 3 to 5 people solo by incorporating dodge rolling, vigor, rally, and a combination of various attacks is considered easy mode. But killing 50 people with one proxy det while wearing the vicious death set is considered hard mode? Lol

Sandman929

Yes

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

So let me get this straight. One stamina user killing 3 to 5 people solo by incorporating dodge rolling, vigor, rally, and a combination of various attacks is considered easy mode. But killing 50 people with one proxy det while wearing the vicious death set is considered hard mode? Lol

It's good to see you're not stooping to exaggeration about the effectiveness of proxy or VD. Stamina builds self-heal too well and dodge too often through no effort on their part. That's what's easy mode. They've got damage, mitigation and healing and aren't lacking in any of those categories. Sure there are mag builds that can do any ONE of those things better, but not all three.
"Easy mode" might not be the term I'd use, but on my stam builds resource management is easier, mobility is better, damage is higher and easier to stack and high mitigation is easier to achieve without sacrificing damage.

Strider_Roshin

No

Sandman929 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

So let me get this straight. One stamina user killing 3 to 5 people solo by incorporating dodge rolling, vigor, rally, and a combination of various attacks is considered easy mode. But killing 50 people with one proxy det while wearing the vicious death set is considered hard mode? Lol

It's good to see you're not stooping to exaggeration about the effectiveness of proxy or VD. Stamina builds self-heal too well and dodge too often through no effort on their part. That's what's easy mode. They've got damage, mitigation and healing and aren't lacking in any of those categories. Sure there are mag builds that can do any ONE of those things better, but not all three.
"Easy mode" might not be the term I'd use, but on my stam builds resource management is easier, mobility is better, damage is higher and easier to stack and high mitigation is easier to achieve without sacrificing damage.

So let's do an actual comparison shall we? For one healing ward + vampirism makes magicka stupid tanky. On my magicka NB, I have been knocked down, and unable to CC break due to running out of stamina, but then got back up, and killed the three people that were hitting me as I was on the ground. You see the lovely thing about shields is that they work as you're CC'd.
Now if we were to compare damage stam DKs beat magicka DKs, magicka and stam Nightblades are comparable, magicka sorcs and stam sorcs are comparable (magicka is more bursty though), magicka Templars beat stam Templars.

Survivability is dominated by magicka across the board. Resource management is class dependant. Magicka DKs have horrible resource management; whereas stamina DKs have the best in the game. Magicka Nightblades, sorcs, and Templars are superior to their stamina counterpart though. Overall the game is easier as magicka unless you're a DK in PvP.

Sandman929

Yes

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

So let me get this straight. One stamina user killing 3 to 5 people solo by incorporating dodge rolling, vigor, rally, and a combination of various attacks is considered easy mode. But killing 50 people with one proxy det while wearing the vicious death set is considered hard mode? Lol

It's good to see you're not stooping to exaggeration about the effectiveness of proxy or VD. Stamina builds self-heal too well and dodge too often through no effort on their part. That's what's easy mode. They've got damage, mitigation and healing and aren't lacking in any of those categories. Sure there are mag builds that can do any ONE of those things better, but not all three.
"Easy mode" might not be the term I'd use, but on my stam builds resource management is easier, mobility is better, damage is higher and easier to stack and high mitigation is easier to achieve without sacrificing damage.

So let's do an actual comparison shall we? For one healing ward + vampirism makes magicka stupid tanky. On my magicka NB, I have been knocked down, and unable to CC break due to running out of stamina, but then got back up, and killed the three people that were hitting me as I was on the ground. You see the lovely thing about shields is that they work as you're CC'd.
Now if we were to compare damage stam DKs beat magicka DKs, magicka and stam Nightblades are comparable, magicka sorcs and stam sorcs are comparable (magicka is more bursty though), magicka Templars beat stam Templars.

Survivability is dominated by magicka across the board. Resource management is class dependant. Magicka DKs have horrible resource management; whereas stamina DKs have the best in the game. Magicka Nightblades, sorcs, and Templars are superior to their stamina counterpart though. Overall the game is easier as magicka unless you're a DK in PvP.

Theres so much silliness in there it's hard to know where to start. Healing ward + Vampirism is the magical formula? A resto staff ability that sometimes hits the caster, but mostly doesn't, is the high water mark for survivability in your opinion? I don't know who your three opponents were, but if they couldn't cut through a healing ward and kill you before the CC ended I don't think your victory is due to the power of healing ward plus vampirism, but rather their completely pathetic DPS.

Strider_Roshin

No

Sandman929 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

So let me get this straight. One stamina user killing 3 to 5 people solo by incorporating dodge rolling, vigor, rally, and a combination of various attacks is considered easy mode. But killing 50 people with one proxy det while wearing the vicious death set is considered hard mode? Lol

It's good to see you're not stooping to exaggeration about the effectiveness of proxy or VD. Stamina builds self-heal too well and dodge too often through no effort on their part. That's what's easy mode. They've got damage, mitigation and healing and aren't lacking in any of those categories. Sure there are mag builds that can do any ONE of those things better, but not all three.
"Easy mode" might not be the term I'd use, but on my stam builds resource management is easier, mobility is better, damage is higher and easier to stack and high mitigation is easier to achieve without sacrificing damage.

So let's do an actual comparison shall we? For one healing ward + vampirism makes magicka stupid tanky. On my magicka NB, I have been knocked down, and unable to CC break due to running out of stamina, but then got back up, and killed the three people that were hitting me as I was on the ground. You see the lovely thing about shields is that they work as you're CC'd.
Now if we were to compare damage stam DKs beat magicka DKs, magicka and stam Nightblades are comparable, magicka sorcs and stam sorcs are comparable (magicka is more bursty though), magicka Templars beat stam Templars.

Survivability is dominated by magicka across the board. Resource management is class dependant. Magicka DKs have horrible resource management; whereas stamina DKs have the best in the game. Magicka Nightblades, sorcs, and Templars are superior to their stamina counterpart though. Overall the game is easier as magicka unless you're a DK in PvP.

Theres so much silliness in there it's hard to know where to start. Healing ward + Vampirism is the magical formula? A resto staff ability that sometimes hits the caster, but mostly doesn't, is the high water mark for survivability in your opinion? I don't know who your three opponents were, but if they couldn't cut through a healing ward and kill you before the CC ended I don't think your victory is due to the power of healing ward plus vampirism, but rather their completely pathetic DPS.

They were stamina lol

Sandman929

Yes

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

So let me get this straight. One stamina user killing 3 to 5 people solo by incorporating dodge rolling, vigor, rally, and a combination of various attacks is considered easy mode. But killing 50 people with one proxy det while wearing the vicious death set is considered hard mode? Lol

It's good to see you're not stooping to exaggeration about the effectiveness of proxy or VD. Stamina builds self-heal too well and dodge too often through no effort on their part. That's what's easy mode. They've got damage, mitigation and healing and aren't lacking in any of those categories. Sure there are mag builds that can do any ONE of those things better, but not all three.
"Easy mode" might not be the term I'd use, but on my stam builds resource management is easier, mobility is better, damage is higher and easier to stack and high mitigation is easier to achieve without sacrificing damage.

So let's do an actual comparison shall we? For one healing ward + vampirism makes magicka stupid tanky. On my magicka NB, I have been knocked down, and unable to CC break due to running out of stamina, but then got back up, and killed the three people that were hitting me as I was on the ground. You see the lovely thing about shields is that they work as you're CC'd.
Now if we were to compare damage stam DKs beat magicka DKs, magicka and stam Nightblades are comparable, magicka sorcs and stam sorcs are comparable (magicka is more bursty though), magicka Templars beat stam Templars.

Survivability is dominated by magicka across the board. Resource management is class dependant. Magicka DKs have horrible resource management; whereas stamina DKs have the best in the game. Magicka Nightblades, sorcs, and Templars are superior to their stamina counterpart though. Overall the game is easier as magicka unless you're a DK in PvP.

Theres so much silliness in there it's hard to know where to start. Healing ward + Vampirism is the magical formula? A resto staff ability that sometimes hits the caster, but mostly doesn't, is the high water mark for survivability in your opinion? I don't know who your three opponents were, but if they couldn't cut through a healing ward and kill you before the CC ended I don't think your victory is due to the power of healing ward plus vampirism, but rather their completely pathetic DPS.

They were stamina lol

Well they weren't doing a very good job of it.

Lava_Croft

Yes

If only some Stamina users would get rid of their Templar complex and see the current situation for what it really is.

FearlessOne_2014

Yes

As a player who PvPs on both stamina and magicka builds across most of the classes, I just can't see how a stamina main can not see that stamina across the board is highly overtuned. Like said in previous posts on this thread, stamina has the biggest advantage in the game. That is being able to stack huge amounts of damage without having to gave up sustain. The fact that magicka users do not have their dodge roll, sneak, and sprint tied to their main resource bar and stamina does is just beyond huge, except my Magplar which don't need to have to dodge as much as the other magicka class/builds, but I have sacraficed a bit of damage to be able to not die in 3 or 4 secs. to StamBlades or other stamina ganking builds. 2her is just too strong in my opinion with most builds. Magicka users need access to a magicka weapon or two that is not projectile, or force pulse and it's morphs need to be consider as a stream and not a projectile.

We knew this was coming when the first DB dlc pts patch notes hit. There was to much magicka hate in the game even before TG. But it just may be now that the magicka shields have been "balanced" which was needed, that stamina builds just took over. This is because there is very little stamina hate in this game other then RD which if ZOS don't want to "balance" Stamina down to the level of magicka then ZOS should absolute not nerf RD but instead make other counters against stamina supremacy through Evasion, and Dodge Roll. Maybe it's time to allow Magicka builds to use magicka to pump the Arcane Energy around then into their bodies for a short time, to sneak, sprint, and dodge roll around.

As a player who plays both builds. I'd happiy give up every miligram of my shields to be able to Evade, Dodge Roll, and Sprint like stamina builds, they are just hands down better then magicka shield. Making stamina builds much much easier to play then magicka builds

Kas

No

not at all, if there is an easy mode, it's either:
a) playing as a non-leader in a group (the better the group, the easier for the average guys just running with them) or
b) ganking/bombing zergs - anything where your gameplan evolves around a fixed repetitive combination of your skills with little regard to a how a fight evolves

that said, IF you're into longer fights against very good or multiple enemies, the squishier you are, the harder it is. my personal "easy mode" is to play a rather tanky build. this also protects against smaller lag problems. however, to be really successful you still have to perfectly read your enemy, anticipate their actions, manage resources, etc -- in comparison doing what your leader says or executing your 3-10action combo on your target(s) is ESO's easy mode.

the stamina vs magicka difference is marginal in comparison, good stamina players have to dodge selectively, take care of their positioning (your really don't want to miss 60% of your meele attacks due to movement; don't disengage against a magplar when you're gettign low or else you'll be the next one to create an "RD OP" thread...), watch their timers (don't let rally run out while fasalla-debuffed, two seconds without doing damage may seem easy but if you have group AoE etc running, this may be impossible, so you have to keep an eye on your rally timer when you cast them). Just compare that to TG's video making NBs who pressed the 5 same buttons every time...

Lava_Croft

Yes

In a game that almost entirely revolves around various forms of CC, calling Stamina builds only marginally better than Magicka builds is quite out of touch with reality.

kaithuzar

Yes

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

So let me get this straight. One stamina user killing 3 to 5 people solo by incorporating dodge rolling, vigor, rally, and a combination of various attacks is considered easy mode. But killing 50 people with one proxy det while wearing the vicious death set is considered hard mode? Lol

News flash: Proxy det was nerfed a long time ago...

Strider_Roshin

No

kaithuzar wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

So let me get this straight. One stamina user killing 3 to 5 people solo by incorporating dodge rolling, vigor, rally, and a combination of various attacks is considered easy mode. But killing 50 people with one proxy det while wearing the vicious death set is considered hard mode? Lol

News flash: Proxy det was nerfed a long time ago...

News flash: Proxy det does the same damage against zergs as it did previously.

thankyourat

Yes

raasdal wrote: »

It seems to me, most people forget what this vote is about. It is, when i read it at least, about which playstyle is more difficult. This quickly turns into people debating what is more OP, .

In my mind, there is no question about this at all;

Magicka is by far the easiest playstyle, and always has been. It is easy to understanding, and involves very simple mechanics. You either spam shields, heals og cloaks.

Stamina is by FAR a more difficult playstyle. You dont have access to burst heals, you need to dodge-roll alot, and generally you need to AVOID taking damage, instead of countering with spamming the aforementioned heals, shields og cloaks.

If you are seriously thinking that the playstyle of Magicka is more difficult to learn and "master", compared to Stamina, i dont know what game you are playing... It is not this one...

Edit: Now with Vote

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

So let me get this straight. One stamina user killing 3 to 5 people solo by incorporating dodge rolling, vigor, rally, and a combination of various attacks is considered easy mode. But killing 50 people with one proxy det while wearing the vicious death set is considered hard mode? Lol

News flash: Proxy det was nerfed a long time ago...

News flash: Proxy det does the same damage against zergs as it did previously.

It really doesn't. you need to hit like 13 or 14 people for proxy det to do real damage most of the time you only hit 6 or 7. So on paper yes it's just as powerful but you rarely get those conditions met. It's pretty much a wasted skill slot at this point.

Master_Kas

Yes

kaithuzar wrote: »

So there are maybe 12-13 different yes's in the comments & comparably around 7 no's.
Yet the poll shows that "no" is winning. This leads me to believe that people are just coming here & hitting a button without explaining their reasoning. Which brings the question of if they have any way of backing their decision with logic or not.
I guess I should have been more specific to ask for reasoning behind the decision chose.
Because at this point the poll is pointless because it looks like there are a ton of stam users hitting no saying "please don't nerf us even though we're the new op meta right now" & a ton of magicka & stam users saying "yes, it's unbalanced right now". sigh...

I voted yes without commenting because theres not really a need for it. Any pvp player who isn't biased and have played mag and stam knows whats up

Eshelmen

Not Sure

Never really use my stam character, nor do I have any interest in doing so.

My Magplar does just fine against them.

Xsorus

No

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

So let me get this straight. One stamina user killing 3 to 5 people solo by incorporating dodge rolling, vigor, rally, and a combination of various attacks is considered easy mode. But killing 50 people with one proxy det while wearing the vicious death set is considered hard mode? Lol

News flash: Proxy det was nerfed a long time ago...

News flash: Proxy det does the same damage against zergs as it did previously.

Trust me; as someone who bombed with Prox and VD, It got gutted with the Prox Patch.

Its got a cap of 10 people in terms of the max the buff will increase the spell, and hitting 10 people with Prox actually does LESS damage then pre patch did ....

So it was an all around nerf to the setup.

Sharee

When a stamina build runs out of magicka, its a minor inconvenience.
When a magicka build runs out of stamina, its dead.

Simple as that.

Valencer

Not Sure

Except for the fact that stamina builds need to use their main resource for both defensive actions and actual abilities. Yes, inexperienced players might enjoy the benefits of being able to CC break / roll dodge more often, but that doesnt mean stamina management is trivial for a well played stamina spec.

Obviously cant argue against this thread's title from a Dragonknight perspective, but mostly because magicka DKs specifically have been garbage for close to a year now. Not so convinced about other classes. Magicka templars are formidable and magicka sorcs are still ridiculously tough to take down 1v1 if they camp a minefield and stack hardened ward with harness magicka (even stronger than it was pre-DB since stam builds dont bypass harness anymore)

thankyourat

Yes

Valencer wrote: »

Except for the fact that stamina builds need to use their main resource for both defensive actions and actual abilities. Yes, inexperienced players might enjoy the benefits of being able to CC break / roll dodge more often, but that doesnt mean stamina management is trivial for a well played stamina spec.

Obviously cant argue against this thread's title from a Dragonknight perspective, but mostly because magicka DKs specifically have been garbage for close to a year now. Not so convinced about other classes. Magicka templars are formidable and magicka sorcs are still ridiculously tough to take down 1v1 if they camp a minefield and stack hardened ward with harness magicka (even stronger than it was pre-DB since stam builds dont bypass harness anymore)

What about magblade lol?