Ive noticed something about Cyrodiil

ScottK1994

There's a lot of people who do 1v1 and small group fights and they usually complain about zerging.

Why haven't the people who do 1v1 etc noticed they're basically a liability for their team? The purpose in cyrodiil is to get in a huge group and storm and defend keeps? If you're a solo guy your only purpose is to scout.

covenant_merchant

Open world PvP. This game caters to both smallscalers and zergers alike. You can't force smallscalers to zerg, just like you can't force zergers to learn to play beyond spamming one skill (generalizing of course).
And regarding your phrasing, people who "do 1v1" usually don't have a team; it's pretty much the whole point of 1v1 or 1vX.

covenant_merchant

And on a second note, purpose is a very vague notion. Finding purpose and meaning in this game is different for you than it is for me or any other player alike. Meaning is a very difficult issue. For you, it might be fighting for the glory of your alliance together with many other players with a similar mindset. For others, it is to showcase their skill in outnumbered situations. For others yet, it is erotic roleplay.
To each their own, man.

And since sets like vicious death (intended as zerg buster) or skills like reverse slice have been implemented/improved, that clearly shows that the devs do not encourage only "huge groups defending keeps". Though the reason is probably because their servers can't keep up with groups of this size.

ScottK1994

Well then I should have included an extra question or two then.

Like why haven't the development team done anything to make solo players have slight more relevance in their final scores?(like a mission where it allows you to take a farm or something through being sneaky)

I liked and hated that cyrodiil was so big but I always wondered why there wasnt special events for being in an "empty" enemy area?

Because with the way the game is it really seems like the 1v1 and small scale people are dreaming of battlegrounds

susmitds

The only purpose of playing games is having fun and zerging or playing against zergs outnumbered 15+ to 1 is hardly fun.

ScottK1994

kasa-obake wrote: »

And since sets like vicious death (intended as zerg buster) or skills like reverse slice have been implemented/improved, that clearly shows that the devs do not encourage only "huge groups defending keeps". Though the reason is probably because their servers can't keep up with groups of this size.

Do you think that if that a group was attacking a keep and there was only a single player close by to defend it, he should get some type of siege buff? I mean I guess on PC you can shout for help but even then you still have to wait til they show up..

It's just that when I spent a few days in cyrodiil I avoided being alone

ScottK1994

susmitds wrote: »

The only purpose of playing games is having fun and zerging or playing against zergs outnumbered 15+ to 1 is hardly fun.

Im into small group combat but if it was very smooth I think I'd be into large scale combat too, but not of unequal numbers

Sharee

ScottK1994 wrote: »

There's a lot of people who do 1v1 and small group fights and they usually complain about zerging.

Why haven't the people who do 1v1 etc noticed they're basically a liability for their team? The purpose in cyrodiil is to get in a huge group and storm and defend keeps? If you're a solo guy your only purpose is to scout.

Thornblade campaign. You get in a huge zerg and fight another huge zerg for a keep. You win. Your side gains a single point of score on the next scoring tick.

I am solo, and cap a resource before a scoring tick. Guess how many points my side gains?

Yep, the same 1 point.

ScottK1994

Sharee wrote: »

ScottK1994 wrote: »

There's a lot of people who do 1v1 and small group fights and they usually complain about zerging.

Why haven't the people who do 1v1 etc noticed they're basically a liability for their team? The purpose in cyrodiil is to get in a huge group and storm and defend keeps? If you're a solo guy your only purpose is to scout.

Thornblade campaign. You get in a huge zerg and fight another huge zerg for a keep. You win. Your side gains a single point of score on the next scoring tick.

I am solo, and cap a resource before a scoring tick. Guess how many points my side gains?

Yep, the same 1 point.

If you done it solo it should have been well more than 1 point. See that's what I mean, it's not the actual ability of the players obviously it's just that they rarely create a situation where they give their team an advantage over the other.

They should either make it more rewarding for the solo player or try to make it more interesting for solo players to get into groups. That way all alliances will be doing their bests really haha

ScottK1994

Also has anyone else noticed that each alliance works better as a team at a different time of day? My DC team worked best at around 5-6pm, the AD dominated through morning and noon and EP dominated at night haha

Sharee

ScottK1994 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ScottK1994 wrote: »

There's a lot of people who do 1v1 and small group fights and they usually complain about zerging.

Why haven't the people who do 1v1 etc noticed they're basically a liability for their team? The purpose in cyrodiil is to get in a huge group and storm and defend keeps? If you're a solo guy your only purpose is to scout.

Thornblade campaign. You get in a huge zerg and fight another huge zerg for a keep. You win. Your side gains a single point of score on the next scoring tick.

I am solo, and cap a resource before a scoring tick. Guess how many points my side gains?

Yep, the same 1 point.

If you done it solo it should have been well more than 1 point. See that's what I mean, it's not the actual ability of the players obviously it's just that they rarely create a situation where they give their team an advantage over the other.

Just in case i wasn't being clear- i am not talking about AP i earned, but about the campaign score of your side. Every hour, the game looks at how many assets you own, and adds one point for each asset to your side's score ('home' assets count for two). A keep is worth one point, a resource is also worth one point(i'm talking thornblade, other campaigns may have different scoring rules).

That means it is acually the zerg that is the liability, because if they split, and each member solo capped a resource before a scoring tick, they would boost their alliance's score by way more than the 1 point they achieved as a zerg.

Valencer

ScottK1994 wrote: »

Well then I should have included an extra question or two then.

Like why haven't the development team done anything to make solo players have slight more relevance in their final scores?(like a mission where it allows you to take a farm or something through being sneaky)

I liked and hated that cyrodiil was so big but I always wondered why there wasnt special events for being in an "empty" enemy area?

Because with the way the game is it really seems like the 1v1 and small scale people are dreaming of battlegrounds

Back when the game had soft caps on stats, dynamic ultimate generation and was all about resource management, outnumbered players could put up a very effective fight. People who ran solo or in small groups were very relevant back then and Cyrodiil was more dynamic.

What it comes down to is that a lot of the the people looking for small scale action are frustrated because when a large zerg shows up they cant fight back and defend themselves at all anymore, while back in the day they did have a proper fighting chance. Numbers should be an advantage but they shouldnt be the be-all and end-all of Cyrodiil.

ScottK1994

Sharee wrote: »

ScottK1994 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ScottK1994 wrote: »

There's a lot of people who do 1v1 and small group fights and they usually complain about zerging.

Why haven't the people who do 1v1 etc noticed they're basically a liability for their team? The purpose in cyrodiil is to get in a huge group and storm and defend keeps? If you're a solo guy your only purpose is to scout.

Thornblade campaign. You get in a huge zerg and fight another huge zerg for a keep. You win. Your side gains a single point of score on the next scoring tick.

I am solo, and cap a resource before a scoring tick. Guess how many points my side gains?

Yep, the same 1 point.

If you done it solo it should have been well more than 1 point. See that's what I mean, it's not the actual ability of the players obviously it's just that they rarely create a situation where they give their team an advantage over the other.

Just in case i wasn't being clear- i am not talking about AP i earned, but about the campaign score of your side. Every hour, the game looks at how many assets you own, and adds one point for each asset to your side's score ('home' assets count for two). A keep is worth one point, a resource is also worth one point(i'm talking thornblade, other campaigns may have different scoring rules).

That means it is acually the zerg that is the liability, because if they split, and each member solo capped a resource before a scoring tick, they would boost their alliance's score by way more than the 1 point they achieved as a zerg.

But being a group increases the chances of successfully taking a keep. Like you did well but it couldn't happen that way all the time, you have to react against the enemy etc. If all players in an alliance were in small groups then they couldn't defend a keep against an enemy zerg

ScottK1994

Valencer wrote: »

ScottK1994 wrote: »

Well then I should have included an extra question or two then.

Like why haven't the development team done anything to make solo players have slight more relevance in their final scores?(like a mission where it allows you to take a farm or something through being sneaky)

I liked and hated that cyrodiil was so big but I always wondered why there wasnt special events for being in an "empty" enemy area?

Because with the way the game is it really seems like the 1v1 and small scale people are dreaming of battlegrounds

Back when the game had soft caps on stats, dynamic ultimate generation and was all about resource management, outnumbered players could put up a very effective fight. People who ran solo or in small groups were very relevant back then and Cyrodiil was more dynamic.

What it comes down to is that a lot of the the people looking for small scale action are frustrated because when a large zerg shows up they cant fight back and defend themselves at all anymore, while back in the day they did have a proper fighting chance. Numbers should be an advantage but they shouldnt be the be-all and end-all of Cyrodiil.

Yeah I've noticed that it used to have been different for players, but PvP seems to be perhaps the main thing for this game I think they should be trying to make it as good as they can. Until battlegrounds come the solo player should have more quests or even a buff for being 50/100/200 feet from a teammate. Then if it happens to be a 1v1 they'd hopefully be buffed equally

ScottK1994

Or a buff for how many enemies are around you compared to teammates(5/10/20 enemies)

Because to me Cyrodiil seems to be all about the zerg.

visionality

Scott, you postings show that you're an enthusiastic zerger who has little respect or understanding for ppl who prefer a different playstyle.

Solo players and small scale groups earn as much and often more AP/h than ppl in a big zerg. They can move and react faster than a big body of players, they are often better at playing (otherwise your survivability is not really amusing in small scale^^), and ofc they can defend a keep against an enemy zerg because during a big attack several small groups and a lot of solo players come to defend.

There are some advantages in organized groups - mainly rapid, barrier and purge -, but most zergs are NOT organized which makes the advantage a bit obsolete.

So if you feel happy in a big group of players, that's totally fine and you should keep doing so. But please don't insult people who prefer doing something else just because you don't understand how they can succeed and even excel in it.

ScottK1994

Well actually I've stopped playing PvP because I prefer the idea of battlegrounds. I started playing again last month so it's right during the malubeth stuff etc. I'm not enthusiastic about it but it does seem the purpose


I didn't mean any offense

raviour

the 1v1 players u see r usualy an organized duel, it can be rare to find random duels but the chance is better recently. i play solo, small guild group or lead lfg, mostly solo and i have no problem gaining points alone... the beauty of cyrodiil is that players can do what they want in their own time unlike pledges or trials..

ppl that whinge about zergs r usualy the aliance that has least skill because they r used to zerging, personally i love annoying zergs solo, and on pc u can use chatbox to warn of incoming zergs... some do a small group of talented players that hunt zergs to rek them... points r pretty much the same whatever style of play you choose

as a new player cyrodiil seems vast and daunting so you want a big group but as you get more experienced confidence comes and you have more options available. a battleground/arena for small xvx fights would be a fun thing but if u want to have a 1v1 duels r pretty easy to organize.

ScottK1994

By liability I meant against zergs and the game mechanics not liable because of their skills

ScottK1994

raviour wrote: »

the 1v1 players u see r usualy an organized duel, it can be rare to find random duels but the chance is better recently. i play solo, small guild group or lead lfg, mostly solo and i have no problem gaining points alone... the beauty of cyrodiil is that players can do what they want in their own time unlike pledges or trials..

ppl that whinge about zergs r usualy the aliance that has least skill because they r used to zerging, personally i love annoying zergs solo, and on pc u can use chatbox to warn of incoming zergs... some do a small group of talented players that hunt zergs to rek them... points r pretty much the same whatever style of play you choose

as a new player cyrodiil seems vast and daunting so you want a big group but as you get more experienced confidence comes and you have more options available. a battleground/arena for small xvx fights would be a fun thing but if u want to have a 1v1 duels r pretty easy to organize.

I seen and tried to interrupt a random duel my first all nighter in Cyrodiil, was disappointed when I got teabagged by my teammates lol.

Haha I just think there should either be more options for solo and small scale players or they should suck it up and group up haha

raviour

hehe teabagged by ur own ;p i do /cry. never teabagged b4 but /laugh makes enemies respawn very fast.

on pc pvp is fine whatever size group you r in or if alone because we have chatbox to communicate i hope console get their chatbox soon.

u do get these ppl that have organized duel right next to action then complain when its interupted, very silly

sometimes u just wanna slack off and /w or chat in guilds etc so joining a group is pointless as you are taking up spots that could be used better. other times you just wanna run around with a few mates doin weird stuff. leading a PUG can be very fun and rewarding too although a bit tiring, this is the freedom of pvp

ScottK1994

The reason I came back is because I heard the next update will have text chat haha, it's a small thing but it really does make it seem less like an MMO.

To be fair to them it was fairly early in the morning, I was one of the few people thinking it was crucial to get things done at that moment haha. Running around angry because my team had 2 keeps but were casually dueling the enemy I messaged players like "we are gonna lose and its your fault" hahahahah. In my defence having 2 keeps isn't a good situation. It was also the last day and we were only in a tight lead.

ScottK1994

I'm pretty sure the person I said that to was the former emporer too I was like CP 12 telling him/her that we're going to lose because of them:')

yodased

1 or 2 people can easily hold a group of 20+ at a choke point. I do it every night.

We also flag keeps and outposts to draw the zerg away from our teams zerg.

We can bounce from fight to fight helping the alliance wherever needed quickly.

We cap resources to get points and stop transit.

We come upon your 20+ man zerg wiped at front door, kill NPC's put up tent and then leave to fight the players who wiped you.

Large scale battle, doesn't mean large group battle.

It is scary to be alone, but sometimes being scared is good

raviour

hehe i similar, war can get you passionate.

former emp doesnt mean much unless you got it in the main campaign and those that did wouldn't use that title anyway coz its cheesy and will have a rank thats more impressive. console mentality might be different tho, but on pc there are a million former emperors. master angler ftw

Hashtag_

Current #1 DC player on PS4 Scourge only runs in a group of 3-8 he has 6 mil+. The red guy runs full group he has roughly the same or less from my recollection at the moment.

ScottK1994

Hashtag_ wrote: »

Current #1 DC player on PS4 Scourge only runs in a group of 3-8 he has 6 mil+. The red guy runs full group he has roughly the same or less from my recollection at the moment.

But do they face off against each other? I'd imagine they'd avoid each other no?

Sharee

ScottK1994 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ScottK1994 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ScottK1994 wrote: »

There's a lot of people who do 1v1 and small group fights and they usually complain about zerging.

Why haven't the people who do 1v1 etc noticed they're basically a liability for their team? The purpose in cyrodiil is to get in a huge group and storm and defend keeps? If you're a solo guy your only purpose is to scout.

Thornblade campaign. You get in a huge zerg and fight another huge zerg for a keep. You win. Your side gains a single point of score on the next scoring tick.

I am solo, and cap a resource before a scoring tick. Guess how many points my side gains?

Yep, the same 1 point.

If you done it solo it should have been well more than 1 point. See that's what I mean, it's not the actual ability of the players obviously it's just that they rarely create a situation where they give their team an advantage over the other.

Just in case i wasn't being clear- i am not talking about AP i earned, but about the campaign score of your side. Every hour, the game looks at how many assets you own, and adds one point for each asset to your side's score ('home' assets count for two). A keep is worth one point, a resource is also worth one point(i'm talking thornblade, other campaigns may have different scoring rules).

That means it is acually the zerg that is the liability, because if they split, and each member solo capped a resource before a scoring tick, they would boost their alliance's score by way more than the 1 point they achieved as a zerg.

But being a group increases the chances of successfully taking a keep. Like you did well but it couldn't happen that way all the time, you have to react against the enemy etc. If all players in an alliance were in small groups then they couldn't defend a keep against an enemy zerg

I'm not saying all players in an alliance should be in small groups, just that not being a part of large zerg does not automatically mean being a liability.

ScottK1994

Fair enough.

I still think that since that's the way a lot of people want to play, it should suit them more.

Darnathian

visionality wrote: »

Scott, you postings show that you're an enthusiastic zerger who has little respect or understanding for ppl who prefer a different playstyle.

Solo players and small scale groups earn as much and often more AP/h than ppl in a big zerg. They can move and react faster than a big body of players, they are often better at playing (otherwise your survivability is not really amusing in small scale^^), and ofc they can defend a keep against an enemy zerg because during a big attack several small groups and a lot of solo players come to defend.

There are some advantages in organized groups - mainly rapid, barrier and purge -, but most zergs are NOT organized which makes the advantage a bit obsolete.

So if you feel happy in a big group of players, that's totally fine and you should keep doing so. But please don't insult people who prefer doing something else just because you don't understand how they can succeed and even excel in it.

Same for u. Your tone suggests otherwise.

Robbmrp

I'm fine with 1v1's in the game. They should just expect that when they run into a group from the other faction that they will be steam rolled most likely. That's the chance you take running alone. It doesn't mean that everyone is zerging all the time. More often than not though you will come across larger groups.