Stamina vs Magicka

thepurpleplatypus2

Right now in Cyro there are way more stam builds than mag, this is not just me stating the obvious; the reason for this imbalance is the fact that stam builds are overpowered in their abilities to dodge, break free, and spam abilities. While I am a magicka based build I have to micro manage my resources more so than a stam build, i can only dodge roll 2-3 times or break free around 3 times before my stam is gone. this would be manageable if things like dizzying swing and bombard werent broken to high hell, forcing me to deplete my stam before i can even get a hit off. Stamina builds have a much more fluidity to "animation cancel" their attacks, so essentially by the time i put out 3 skills, they've hit me with 5+, or just dizzying swing 7 times. To remain competitive in cyro i am a vampire, mainly for the ult and mist form. Mist form is currently labeled as granting immunity to all stuns, cc's, and such... that is a hunk of bologna. Repeatedly i have been slowed, stopped completely, or knocked out of mist form while being attacked by stam users; naturally this puts a damper on my mood at the time.

I'm sure other people on these forums have gone into the speed stacking and infinite dodge roll habits that stam users have repeatedly used in order to get away faster than a mount, so i wont go into that.

As far as sets go there are sooooooooo much more choices for stamina users that it is just absurd, and when i find a magicka set that i havent previously seen, its 5 piece is next to worthless or it only comes in prosperous. This issue has numbers that speak for themselves.

I dont want to get rid of stam builds or nerf them to the point of making people leave or re roll, i just want a level playing field in the sense of overall effect. To play a magicka build one must sacrifice their stam pool and risk being cc'd over and over. Stam builds sacrifice nothing, if a stam build runs out of magicka they just dodge roll away or use any of their healing or damage abilities to keep the fight going. if im faced with an incompetent stam build i will roll over them just as hard as the next guy but the ones that have their s**t together can infinitely stun, knockback, and root me into oblivion and before i know it i cant block, dodge or do anything stam related.

Also while i have the reader's attention, cyro lag needs to be fixed, and the pop locks on all factions need to be addressed, AD and EP constantly have much larger numbers than DC even while all 3 are "pop locked"

mubzander

Stamina builds have to be aware of dodge rolling, blocking, attacking and healing, so it's only fair if they hit slightly harder since they all usually come off the stamina pool with exception of some skills.

Magicka builds are easy to play compared to them. You don't have to constantly watch your resources. If you're in trouble just run away, dodge, cloak or streak away not to mention one breath of life takes you to full health.

FYI On xbox the current Scourge emperor is a Magic NB.

It appears you do not have sufficient knowledge on the stamina class:

"Stam builds sacrifice nothing, if a stam build runs out of magicka they just dodge roll away or use any of their healing or damage abilities to keep the fight going."

This statement is not accurate I advise you to play a stamina class. There is no need for stamina users to use their magicka pool unless they want certain buffs or cloak.

This thread is irrelevant and brings nothing insightful to the community.

Lokey0024

mubzander wrote: »

Stamina builds have to be aware of dodge rolling, blocking, attacking and healing, so it's only fair if they hit slightly harder since they all usually come off the stamina pool with exception of some skills.

Magicka builds are easy to play compared to them. You don't have to constantly watch your resources. If you're in trouble just run away, dodge, cloak or streak away not to mention one breath of life takes you to full health.

FYI On xbox the current Scourge emperor is a Magic NB.

It appears you do not have sufficient knowledge on the stamina class:

"Stam builds sacrifice nothing, if a stam build runs out of magicka they just dodge roll away or use any of their healing or damage abilities to keep the fight going."

This statement is not accurate I advise you to play a stamina class. There is no need for stamina users to use their magicka pool unless they want certain buffs or cloak.

This thread is irrelevant and brings nothing insightful to the community.

Wow so your saying the cancer nb ganker humping a rock dodge rolling 6 times while rally charges and vigor ticks is hard work. Guess the hard part is stacking enough stam regen while still hitting like a truck.

RebornV3x

Stam is in a good place this patch I mean stam sorcs could probably get some more love but honestly Magicka overall is lacking especially Mag Sorcs

Sharee

mubzander wrote: »

Magicka builds are easy to play compared to them. You don't have to constantly watch your resources. If you're in trouble just run away, dodge, cloak or streak away not to mention one breath of life takes you to full health.

Okay. The next time i am in trouble on my magicka DK, i guess i'll just run away (from the crit rushing/ambushing/invasioning stam attacker).

Lava_Croft

In a game that's entirely based around CC and where Stamina is required to deal with the effects of CC, it's not rocket science to conclude that Stamina builds are the top dogs.

smtdbplus

OP wants magicka sneak, block, roll, run....

I approve this anytime.

Strider_Roshin

The issue with your argument is that magicka Templars are dominating Cyrodiil right now with their RD spams, Malubeth invincibility, and blazing shield tanks. There are plenty of magicka players out there, and magicka is more powerful than ever, but so is stamina. What you're seeing in Cyrodiil isn't stamina being overpowered. Stamina is just viable again so people are able to play the way they want. I know a lot of people that gave up on their stam sorcs or made their Stamblade into a Magblade when TG was released. Now that stamina is viable again people are finally able to play the way they want to.

Next update however is a different story. With Velidreth, stamina will be as OP as Templars, and no-one should be that powerful.

Strider_Roshin

Sharee wrote: »

mubzander wrote: »

Magicka builds are easy to play compared to them. You don't have to constantly watch your resources. If you're in trouble just run away, dodge, cloak or streak away not to mention one breath of life takes you to full health.

Okay. The next time i am in trouble on my magicka DK, i guess i'll just run away (from the crit rushing/ambushing/invasioning stam attacker).

As a magicka DK you should be a vampire. Being a vampire will grant you mobility, an excellent CC, and a great ultimate.

susmitds

Just till the previous patch, magicka ruled over everything. Now stamina gets some buffs to a few skills and an Ultimate, and all the jealous Magicka players turn salty.

Strider_Roshin

susmitds wrote: »

Just till the previous patch, magicka ruled over everything. Now stamina gets some buffs to a few skills and an Ultimate, and all the jealous Magicka players turn salty.

It's because they don't want balance. They've been dominating this game forever, and now that they're starting to get killed by stamina it's all of a sudden OP.

joshhh_nb

Magicka ruled everything? Are you serious? You only say that because of how op shields were, even then a good stam dk would rip through those shields. Sorcs were only and are still annoying to magic classes because of harness and the unlimited pool of magicka you could get. Id also like to mention the annoying ass bombings aswell but that just about died.

Someone said sustaining is harder on a stam class, did you forget you guys have the best race ingame for stam? Redguard and running out of stam is meaningless why do you think stam classes are running food now over drinks lol? Also with well fitted and the absurd recovery you get with eternal hunt and not to mention shuffle you're not going have trouble with sustaining your roll playstyle. Also the rift between mag and stam only grew with the increase to break free and cost of skills, the sustain you can get with redguard, a Dks igenous/battle roar, a templars repentance, a nbs siphoning attacks and a stam sorcs dark deal = wut is running out of resources.

Only mag class that is really annoying in open world is a radiant d from full health c**t or the breath of life spammer/blazing shield tank.

I'm sure the op doesn't want a magic sneak, block roll or run stop trolling. He just wants a balance between the classes, something which could be achieved if they raised base damage, and lowered just by a bit the maximum damage you could do and also fine tune the resource management of all classes. Not just stam.

susmitds

joshhh_nb wrote: »

Magicka ruled everything? Are you serious? You only say that because of how op shields were, even then a good stam dk would rip through those shields. Sorcs were only and are still annoying to magic classes because of harness and the unlimited pool of magicka you could get. Id also like to mention the annoying ass bombings aswell but that just about died.

Someone said sustaining is harder on a stam class, did you forget you guys have the best race ingame for stam? Redguard and running out of stam is meaningless why do you think stam classes are running food now over drinks lol? Also with well fitted and the absurd recovery you get with eternal hunt and not to mention shuffle you're not going have trouble with sustaining your roll playstyle. Also the rift between mag and stam only grew with the increase to break free and cost of skills, the sustain you can get with redguard, a Dks igenous/battle roar, a templars repentance, a nbs siphoning attacks and a stam sorcs dark deal = wut is running out of resources.

Only mag class that is really annoying in open world is a radiant d from full health c**t or the breath of life spammer/blazing shield tank.

I'm sure the op doesn't want a magic sneak, block roll or run stop trolling. He just wants a balance between the classes, something which could be achieved if they raised base damage, and lowered just by a bit the maximum damage you could do and also fine tune the resource management of all classes. Not just stam.

Redguard sustain is nerfed.

joshhh_nb

susmitds wrote: »

joshhh_nb wrote: »

Magicka ruled everything? Are you serious? You only say that because of how op shields were, even then a good stam dk would rip through those shields. Sorcs were only and are still annoying to magic classes because of harness and the unlimited pool of magicka you could get. Id also like to mention the annoying ass bombings aswell but that just about died.

Someone said sustaining is harder on a stam class, did you forget you guys have the best race ingame for stam? Redguard and running out of stam is meaningless why do you think stam classes are running food now over drinks lol? Also with well fitted and the absurd recovery you get with eternal hunt and not to mention shuffle you're not going have trouble with sustaining your roll playstyle. Also the rift between mag and stam only grew with the increase to break free and cost of skills, the sustain you can get with redguard, a Dks igenous/battle roar, a templars repentance, a nbs siphoning attacks and a stam sorcs dark deal = wut is running out of resources.

Only mag class that is really annoying in open world is a radiant d from full health c**t or the breath of life spammer/blazing shield tank.

I'm sure the op doesn't want a magic sneak, block roll or run stop trolling. He just wants a balance between the classes, something which could be achieved if they raised base damage, and lowered just by a bit the maximum damage you could do and also fine tune the resource management of all classes. Not just stam.

Redguard sustain is nerfed.

Yeah next patch. Tell me what other race gives back magic though? the 2 second difference isnt much with how easy it is to sustain atm with stam classes.

Strider_Roshin

joshhh_nb wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

joshhh_nb wrote: »

Magicka ruled everything? Are you serious? You only say that because of how op shields were, even then a good stam dk would rip through those shields. Sorcs were only and are still annoying to magic classes because of harness and the unlimited pool of magicka you could get. Id also like to mention the annoying ass bombings aswell but that just about died.

Someone said sustaining is harder on a stam class, did you forget you guys have the best race ingame for stam? Redguard and running out of stam is meaningless why do you think stam classes are running food now over drinks lol? Also with well fitted and the absurd recovery you get with eternal hunt and not to mention shuffle you're not going have trouble with sustaining your roll playstyle. Also the rift between mag and stam only grew with the increase to break free and cost of skills, the sustain you can get with redguard, a Dks igenous/battle roar, a templars repentance, a nbs siphoning attacks and a stam sorcs dark deal = wut is running out of resources.

Only mag class that is really annoying in open world is a radiant d from full health c**t or the breath of life spammer/blazing shield tank.

I'm sure the op doesn't want a magic sneak, block roll or run stop trolling. He just wants a balance between the classes, something which could be achieved if they raised base damage, and lowered just by a bit the maximum damage you could do and also fine tune the resource management of all classes. Not just stam.

Redguard sustain is nerfed.

Yeah next patch. Tell me what other race gives back magic though? the 2 second difference isnt much with how easy it is to sustain atm with stam classes.

You do realize that magicka has superior resource management right? The only magicka class that remotely struggles is the magicka DK, but that's because their whip costs a ridiculous amount of magicka. In PvP a Redguard is the only race that can get away with using max food; whereas every magicka class can do that without a race that gives back magicka.

Mac10murda

Just the stam burst is annoying if my magic nightblade hit like my stam nightblade Ithe would be nice

Strider_Roshin

Mac10murda wrote: »

Just the stam burst is annoying if my magic nightblade hit like my stam nightblade Ithe would be nice

It can. I get hit harder by Magblades than I do Stamblades.

joshhh_nb

@Strider_Roshin superior resource management? you what mate dont make me laugh with things like unchained and the green cp tree resource managment is a joke on a stam class. Lets look at a stamplar, one of the biggest reasons they cant run out of resources is because of how well repentance synergises with a stamplar. A stam nb? siphoning attacks. If you play pvp on a stam class you'd be dumb to not play as a redguard, every class can heavy attack to restore resource whether its through a resto staff or a sword but given how especially strong weaving is on stam classes the difference between them is massive.

Mac10murda

I wonder how there geared on my stam blade I can HA , SA and there pretty much dead , doesn't really go so well on mag blade

Forestd16b14_ESO

Wow another nerf stamina thread ....... Ok this is just dtupid stamina gets buffed and magicka users scream wolf but magicka users were top tier for 2 years incase any one forgot. Stamina isnt over powered magicka just got balanced.

Also all of stamina users offense and defense comes from stamina so they have to watch it 24/7 they don't have the privilege of forgetting about it like magicka users cause they also dont get recovery while blocking running or sneaking.

joshhh_nb

@Forestd16b14_ESO yep they nerfed magic classes to add balance which i definitely agree with but they were buffing stam classes at the same time, tipping the balance. If there was a balance in this game there why is it that im the only magic nb running around? why are there more stam sorcs than mag sorcs, more stam dks than mag dks? I cant really tell with stam plars/ mag plars right now though but i am seeing a lot of radiant ds.

ScruffyWhiskers

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

It can. I get hit harder by Magblades than I do Stamblades.

Would you care to elaborate on this? I'm curious to hear what hits you so hard from a magicka nb vs. a stam nb especially now with proxy no longer a single target burst skill. Concealed vs. Surprise is no contest surprise wins. Ambush + incap + surprise beats Lotus + concealed + soul harvest.

ScruffyWhiskers

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Also all of stamina users offense and defense comes from stamina so they have to watch it 24/7 they don't have the privilege of forgetting about it like magicka users cause they also dont get recovery while blocking running or sneaking.

You can flip this around too though. Stam can have fun burning magicka on helpful utility skills like cloak or dark exchange and then have one large pool to focus on combat mechanics. Magicka users don't generally have this option unless they are doing unconventional things like using shuffle or rapids. I have to watch my stam too like a hawk and it's a death warrant if I get cc'd while low just like everybody else....but my margin for error is a lot smaller than a stam user's.

Just for the record though. I'm not complaining about stam being OP. The only thing that I would argue is that the bones being thrown over the last year have mostly been stamina beneficial...it was overdue yes but the pendulum has swung up to the stam side. Despite that overall I think the balance is pretty good.

joshhh_nb

@ScruffyWhiskers to be fair i think my concealed hits harder than most stam blades, non crits i get about 4-4.5k and with crits 7k-10k depending on how much impen they're wearing. what makes them stronger is their ability dodge roll, superior heal in the LONG RUN with rally and vigor due to roll dodge, incap, surprise attack debuff and being able to weave heavy attacks that can hit for 5k+

Strider_Roshin

joshhh_nb wrote: »

@Forestd16b14_ESO yep they nerfed magic classes to add balance which i definitely agree with but they were buffing stam classes at the same time, tipping the balance. If there was a balance in this game there why is it that im the only magic nb running around? why are there more stam sorcs than mag sorcs, more stam dks than mag dks? I cant really tell with stam plars/ mag plars right now though but i am seeing a lot of radiant ds.

I see more stamblades than magblades, but then again magblades can cloak indefinitely. I definitely see more stam DKs than magicka ones, but magicka DKs are making a comeback. I still see more magicka sorcs than stamina, although there are definitely more stam sorcs than ever. As far as Templars go, I see just as many stamplars as I do magicka DKs. What see more than anything else in Cyrodiil however, is magicka Templars. Right now all the classes are fairly balanced for the most part. Magicka Templars are the only ones I see outperforming though. Next update is going to be a different story. Next update, stamina will be OP. It's irritating.

Lava_Croft

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

joshhh_nb wrote: »

@Forestd16b14_ESO yep they nerfed magic classes to add balance which i definitely agree with but they were buffing stam classes at the same time, tipping the balance. If there was a balance in this game there why is it that im the only magic nb running around? why are there more stam sorcs than mag sorcs, more stam dks than mag dks? I cant really tell with stam plars/ mag plars right now though but i am seeing a lot of radiant ds.

I see more stamblades than magblades, but then again magblades can cloak indefinitely.

Good luck trying to use Cloak in a combat situation and actually have it work.

Who even needs Cloak when the real enemy of every player in ESO, CC, is so easily dealt with as a StamBlade.

ScruffyWhiskers

joshhh_nb wrote: »

@ScruffyWhiskers to be fair i think my concealed hits harder than most stam blades, non crits i get about 4-4.5k and with crits 7k-10k depending on how much impen they're wearing. what makes them stronger is their ability dodge roll, superior heal in the LONG RUN with rally and vigor due to roll dodge, incap, surprise attack debuff and being able to weave heavy attacks that can hit for 5k+

What's your buffed non-invis/stealth damage tool tip for concealed? With drinks not food mine is about 8.5k depending on my gear setup. My understanding is that surprise (buffed) is 10-12k on your average joe stam nb. Maybe I'm wrong though.

LegendaryMage

mubzander wrote: »

Stamina builds have to be aware of dodge rolling, blocking, attacking and healing, so it's only fair if they hit slightly harder since they all usually come off the stamina pool with exception of some skills.

Magicka builds are easy to play compared to them. You don't have to constantly watch your resources. If you're in trouble just run away, dodge, cloak or streak away not to mention one breath of life takes you to full health.

FYI On xbox the current Scourge emperor is a Magic NB.

It appears you do not have sufficient knowledge on the stamina class:

"Stam builds sacrifice nothing, if a stam build runs out of magicka they just dodge roll away or use any of their healing or damage abilities to keep the fight going."

This statement is not accurate I advise you to play a stamina class. There is no need for stamina users to use their magicka pool unless they want certain buffs or cloak.

This thread is irrelevant and brings nothing insightful to the community.

I played all classes as stamina and they're all stronger than magicka counter parts. No l2p issue here, just cold hard truth.

Strider_Roshin

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

joshhh_nb wrote: »

@Forestd16b14_ESO yep they nerfed magic classes to add balance which i definitely agree with but they were buffing stam classes at the same time, tipping the balance. If there was a balance in this game there why is it that im the only magic nb running around? why are there more stam sorcs than mag sorcs, more stam dks than mag dks? I cant really tell with stam plars/ mag plars right now though but i am seeing a lot of radiant ds.

I see more stamblades than magblades, but then again magblades can cloak indefinitely.

Good luck trying to use Cloak in a combat situation and actually have it work.

Who even needs Cloak when the real enemy of every player in ESO, CC, is so easily dealt with as a StamBlade.

It's actually quite easy. I use shadow image with my magblade. The combination of cloak and shadow image I'm incredibly evasive. You're tanky as a magblade with healing ward and rapid regen (especially if you're a HA magblade), and your damage output is insane with concealed and soul harvest due to the 8% additional magicka via magicka flood.

Strider_Roshin

LegendaryMage wrote: »

mubzander wrote: »

Stamina builds have to be aware of dodge rolling, blocking, attacking and healing, so it's only fair if they hit slightly harder since they all usually come off the stamina pool with exception of some skills.

Magicka builds are easy to play compared to them. You don't have to constantly watch your resources. If you're in trouble just run away, dodge, cloak or streak away not to mention one breath of life takes you to full health.

FYI On xbox the current Scourge emperor is a Magic NB.

It appears you do not have sufficient knowledge on the stamina class:

"Stam builds sacrifice nothing, if a stam build runs out of magicka they just dodge roll away or use any of their healing or damage abilities to keep the fight going."

This statement is not accurate I advise you to play a stamina class. There is no need for stamina users to use their magicka pool unless they want certain buffs or cloak.

This thread is irrelevant and brings nothing insightful to the community.

I played all classes as stamina and they're all stronger than magicka counter parts. No l2p issue here, just cold hard truth.

I've played all classes as magicka, and they're stronger than their stamina counterparts. No L2P issue here; just the cold hard truth.

LegendaryMage

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

mubzander wrote: »

Stamina builds have to be aware of dodge rolling, blocking, attacking and healing, so it's only fair if they hit slightly harder since they all usually come off the stamina pool with exception of some skills.

Magicka builds are easy to play compared to them. You don't have to constantly watch your resources. If you're in trouble just run away, dodge, cloak or streak away not to mention one breath of life takes you to full health.

FYI On xbox the current Scourge emperor is a Magic NB.

It appears you do not have sufficient knowledge on the stamina class:

"Stam builds sacrifice nothing, if a stam build runs out of magicka they just dodge roll away or use any of their healing or damage abilities to keep the fight going."

This statement is not accurate I advise you to play a stamina class. There is no need for stamina users to use their magicka pool unless they want certain buffs or cloak.

This thread is irrelevant and brings nothing insightful to the community.

I played all classes as stamina and they're all stronger than magicka counter parts. No l2p issue here, just cold hard truth.

I've played all classes as magicka, and they're stronger than their stamina counterparts. No L2P issue here; just the cold hard truth.

Were you PVP'ing before 1.6 patch?