If all Trials had a Public Dungeon option would you like both?

NewBlacksmurf

It seems ZOS is not going to continue to improve the grouping tools so that Trials would be involved so I'm curious on an idea if there was an optional public dungeon mode where the trial would be easier and scaled and set more like a public dungeon for those who don't run trials who may want to have more content.

I do think the loot should differ to be like other public dungeons and not trials but maybe not.

Would you like this as an option of ZOS were to offer it?

NewBlacksmurf

Yes, I'd like an optional public dungeon version of existing and new Trials

I'd like to be able to play both. I understand trial groups can be hard to plan but also some ppl just want content without all the trial strategy and group make up.

Same kinda goes for dungeons as ppl queue as whatever but with trials, it's just trial or no trial

BruhItsOver9000

Yes, I'd like an optional public dungeon version of existing and new Trials

.

bedlom

Yes, I'd like an optional public dungeon version of existing and new Trials

For sure! If trials and group dungeons was public like delves etc. That would be awesome!

Ep1kMalware

Yes, I'd like an optional public dungeon version of existing and new Trials

I voted yes so I could camp particular bosses for certain gear items.

Vaoh

Yes, I'd like an optional public dungeon version of existing and new Trials

Considering how impossible it is even for great players to group with capable players to complete trials..... I'd be fine with this.

Ep1kMalware

Yes, I'd like an optional public dungeon version of existing and new Trials

Doncellius wrote: »

Considering how impossible it is even for great players to group with capable players to complete trials..... I'd be fine with this.

it's not impossible at all, jist challenging to get people to clear comms/not go afk every 3 minutes.

Milvan

No, I wouldn't like an optional public dungeon. I just want the trails to be trials

No. Trials suppose to be engaging and challeging group content. Do you want more public dungeons, ask for it, but reworking trials to fit it is just lazy game design.

(Tho, just disgressing here, it would be great if we could have one public dungeon [not the regular small-sized delves, the big ones like in Orsinium] on each zone area in Cyrodill)

lolo_01b16_ESO

No, I wouldn't like an optional public dungeon. I just want the trails to be trials

The way many trial bosses work can't be used for public dungeons. So they would have to completely redesign the trials and put a lot of effort in it. In my opinion a better way to get more challenging public fights than we have at the moment would be to improve the public dungeons in cadwells gold zones or scale the craglorn events to our current strength.

Vaoh

Yes, I'd like an optional public dungeon version of existing and new Trials

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

Considering how impossible it is even for great players to group with capable players to complete trials..... I'd be fine with this.

it's not impossible at all, jist challenging to get people to clear comms/not go afk every 3 minutes.

I think text chat will make things much easier. As of now it requires a lot of effort to gather the players. This is not even considering the time constraints and issues of having 12 people with things that come up (going afk). Trials aren't easy to coordinate.

I want my loot, but it is not worth 5hrs+ of torture and probably people quitting on the final boss. That is what happens if the entire raid isn't full of serious players who know how to play their role.

Gathering three others for group dungeons is easy. I can already solo most Vet dungeons and boss encounters, so anything my team can add is a plus.

Of course, this is where I easily find strong players since you only need 3 people rather than 11 people to be there at the same time. Almost always I set my PS4 profile to offline to avoid the barrage of invites for vWGT or vICP, but this'll change when vROM and vCOS arrive with CP160 vDSA.

MaxwellC

Yes, I'd like an optional public dungeon version of existing and new Trials

Honestly I read the title and voted.

I thought you meant could I go to a trial and queue up with a bunch of people then I'd agree.

NewBlacksmurf

Yes, I'd like an optional public dungeon version of existing and new Trials

Milvan wrote: »

No. Trials suppose to be engaging and challeging group content. Do you want more public dungeons, ask for it, but reworking trials to fit it is just lazy game design.

(Tho, just disgressing here, it would be great if we could have one public dungeon [not the regular small-sized delves, the big ones like in Orsinium] on each zone area in Cyrodill)

@Milvan
I personally enjoy Trials more than dungeons and Public dungeons...however...the design and intent do not support the Trials. The game is definately more focused outside of Trials as ease of access (meaning there are no in-game tools to organize a Trial group other than having a guild).

This is the first game (MMO type) where Trials/Raids didn't align for progression of gear or some sort of viability so therefore it's pointless unless you're doing the one trial that's end game right now or way back before VR 14 was added.

Now updates are occurring but it's been largely pointless content unless you began on PC until TG update.
Now being on Xbox one it's kinda a lot of waisted content that many don't bother to try because other than a completion achievement, there's no real value.

I can come up with many suggestions for Xbox one but ZOS doesn't use any of the consoles features so possibly just having a non-trial mode when we go in up to a certain amount of players in a phased manner seems to make the best sense

The other part is that some ppl just want to play and are not interested in Trials but do desire a way to obtain the gear even if the quality and % to find is much less than that awarded to Trials participants.

Imagine the same cosmetic look but differences in stats and quality on drops.
(Just an idea as I feel Trials should drop best in slot and not public dungeons even in this idea)

NewBlacksmurf

Yes, I'd like an optional public dungeon version of existing and new Trials

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

Honestly I read the title and voted.

I thought you meant could I go to a trial and queue up with a bunch of people then I'd agree.

@MaxwellCrystal
I'd prefer a sign up in the activity like dungeons but anything is better than nothing

vyndral13preub18_ESO

No, I wouldn't like an optional public dungeon. I just want the trails to be trials

If I thought I could trust Zos with scaling I would vote yes. Since if people want an easy boring run through what is suppose to be harder content it doesn't matter much to me. That is why different difficulties are great. People like different things.

But what scares me is that once they make it easy enough for a public dungeon they will feel the need or 'accidently' make the trial version easier. Or people will complain they could do the public dungeon but not the trial and nerds would be incoming.

Ep1kMalware

Yes, I'd like an optional public dungeon version of existing and new Trials

Doncellius wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

Considering how impossible it is even for great players to group with capable players to complete trials..... I'd be fine with this.

it's not impossible at all, jist challenging to get people to clear comms/not go afk every 3 minutes.

I think text chat will make things much easier. As of now it requires a lot of effort to gather the players. This is not even considering the time constraints and issues of having 12 people with things that come up (going afk). Trials aren't easy to coordinate.

I want my loot, but it is not worth 5hrs+ of torture and probably people quitting on the final boss. That is what happens if the entire raid isn't full of serious players who know how to play their role.

Gathering three others for group dungeons is easy. I can already solo most Vet dungeons and boss encounters, so anything my team can add is a plus.

Of course, this is where I easily find strong players since you only need 3 people rather than 11 people to be there at the same time. Almost always I set my PS4 profile to offline to avoid the barrage of invites for vWGT or vICP, but this'll change when vROM and vCOS arrive with CP160 vDSA.

my guild clears it in 60-70 minutes. But unless you're after gold jewelry I wouldn't bother. The drops are identicle on normal mode.

Qbiken

Other, I have a different take on this idea

If DSA and vDSA counts as trials I would love the grouping tool to include those. But otherwise let trials be trials and dungeons be dungeons

Ep1kMalware

Yes, I'd like an optional public dungeon version of existing and new Trials

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

If I thought I could trust Zos with scaling I would vote yes. Since if people want an easy boring run through what is suppose to be harder content it doesn't matter much to me. That is why different difficulties are great. People like different things.

But what scares me is that once they make it easy enough for a public dungeon they will feel the need or 'accidently' make the trial version easier. Or people will complain they could do the public dungeon but not the trial and nerds would be incoming.

if you're referring to people scsling normal sanctum it's not hard at all, by any ,means. It's just as mindnumbing amd thoughtless on cp160. adds just have a rediculous amount of health and it's tedious as collecting lorebooks. You don't even take any damage on cp160.

I kinda think zos did it to let people have another miserable gear grind and easy ah=chievements.

I csn already solo the first bit of hel ra citadel, can't wait to see its 'normal' mode >.<

NewBlacksmurf

Yes, I'd like an optional public dungeon version of existing and new Trials

Qbiken wrote: »

If DSA and vDSA counts as trials I would love the grouping tool to include those. But otherwise let trials be trials and dungeons be dungeons

@Qbiken

DSA and vDSA is a dungeon and not a trial.

Trials = 12 man larger dungeons which can often place a group on a leader boarder depending on the update

Dungeon = 4 man activity where most utilize the activity finder other than DSA

Public Dungeon = different than a Trial or a Dungeon, these allow many different players grouped or in grouped a large encounter that's level specific and doesn't scale unless in Orsinium, etc.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

No, I wouldn't like an optional public dungeon. I just want the trails to be trials

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

If I thought I could trust Zos with scaling I would vote yes. Since if people want an easy boring run through what is suppose to be harder content it doesn't matter much to me. That is why different difficulties are great. People like different things.

But what scares me is that once they make it easy enough for a public dungeon they will feel the need or 'accidently' make the trial version easier. Or people will complain they could do the public dungeon but not the trial and nerds would be incoming.

if you're referring to people scsling normal sanctum it's not hard at all, by any ,means. It's just as mindnumbing amd thoughtless on cp160. adds just have a rediculous amount of health and it's tedious as collecting lorebooks. You don't even take any damage on cp160.

I kinda think zos did it to let people have another miserable gear grind and easy ah=chievements.

I csn already solo the first bit of hel ra citadel, can't wait to see its 'normal' mode >.<

I woukd have agreed with you until recently. Also something to keep in mind public dungeons are so easy 1 person can solo them with no issues at all.

The other nite i spent about 2 hours with a random group of people trying to get through nSO. Healers wouldnt heal people couldnt follow directions even though everyone was in TS. The pin mechanic on Osara seemed to completely baffle people. But yes with any group that listens nSO is easy. But still not soloable by one person with no problem. Like all the public dungeons are.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

No, I wouldn't like an optional public dungeon. I just want the trails to be trials

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

I voted yes so I could camp particular bosses for certain gear items.

And that is why it's a terrible idea.

Enodoc

Other, I have a different take on this idea

In order for more people to experience the storylines, yes. But with none of the Trial achievements and none of the Loot that is exclusive to Trials.

NewBlacksmurf

Yes, I'd like an optional public dungeon version of existing and new Trials

Enodoc wrote: »

In order for more people to experience the storylines, yes. But with none of the Trial achievements and none of the Loot that is exclusive to Trials.

Agree completely

Shadesofkin

No, I wouldn't like an optional public dungeon. I just want the trails to be trials

No. Leave trials alone. It's bad enough they took this long to scale them.

If you can't form a group, I feel for you, I really do, but that's no reason to change trials. Quit one of your five guilds and find a competent one.

Ep1kMalware

Yes, I'd like an optional public dungeon version of existing and new Trials

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

I voted yes so I could camp particular bosses for certain gear items.

And that is why it's a terrible idea.

;P I don't disagree with you.

lolo_01b16_ESO

No, I wouldn't like an optional public dungeon. I just want the trails to be trials

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

In order for more people to experience the storylines, yes. But with none of the Trial achievements and none of the Loot that is exclusive to Trials.

Agree completely

How should that work without completly redesigning most of the trials?
Let's take AA since it's the first one according to the story line:
1. You can't open the door as long as the frost atros are alive. What happens if someone killed them before you entered the dungeon? Will the doors shut as soon as the atros spawn? And what happens if you made it through the door before they shut, but one of your friends didn't? Does he have to solo kill them / wait for new people to enter?
2. Teleporters have to be redesigned, otherwise you still need 12 coordinated people
3. When will the bridges spawn / despawn?
4. What about the split trash that has to be killed in a certain order to stop them respawning forever?
5. Thanks to teleports and jumping the dungeon is very linear. What if a friend is left behind when mobs respawn? How do you want to help them?
6. What do you do about mage chain lightning? Will it allow random players to wipe you by standing next to you?
7. What happens if a player enters the last boss platform while it is in execute phase? Will he just instantly die?

And that's just an relatively simple trial. Now think about transforming MoL to a public dungeon with all it's one shot mechanics, multiple add waves that are triggered when you enter an area and numerous doors that are shut untill you kill certain enemies.

I'm not opposed to intressting public pve content, I just can't see how switching trials to public has an advantage over adjusting craglorn events / existing public dungeons or creating something completely new.

Nifty2g

No, I wouldn't like an optional public dungeon. I just want the trails to be trials

You need a leader for trials and organisation for them. How would you be able to do that otherwise

NewBlacksmurf

Yes, I'd like an optional public dungeon version of existing and new Trials

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

In order for more people to experience the storylines, yes. But with none of the Trial achievements and none of the Loot that is exclusive to Trials.

Agree completely

How should that work without completly redesigning most of the trials?
Let's take AA since it's the first one according to the story line:
1. You can't open the door as long as the frost atros are alive. What happens if someone killed them before you entered the dungeon? Will the doors shut as soon as the atros spawn? And what happens if you made it through the door before they shut, but one of your friends didn't? Does he have to solo kill them / wait for new people to enter?
2. Teleporters have to be redesigned, otherwise you still need 12 coordinated people
3. When will the bridges spawn / despawn?
4. What about the split trash that has to be killed in a certain order to stop them respawning forever?
5. Thanks to teleports and jumping the dungeon is very linear. What if a friend is left behind when mobs respawn? How do you want to help them?
6. What do you do about mage chain lightning? Will it allow random players to wipe you by standing next to you?
7. What happens if a player enters the last boss platform while it is in execute phase? Will he just instantly die?

And that's just an relatively simple trial. Now think about transforming MoL to a public dungeon with all it's one shot mechanics, multiple add waves that are triggered when you enter an area and numerous doors that are shut untill you kill certain enemies.

I'm not opposed to intressting public pve content, I just can't see how switching trials to public has an advantage over adjusting craglorn events / existing public dungeons or creating something completely new.

@lolo_01b16_ESO
It wouldn't require any major redesigns at all. Some minor changes or you could go with an activity finder easy mode with the same mechanics too.

You could just have a simple action to unlock doors and keep the bosses and trash in place for a public dungeon feel.
In some encounters you'd spawn a boss after trash is killed but ultimately it's just opening up the space to allow players to move around.

This isn't any attempt to mimic the trial story, it's a suggestion to offer existing content in a different way.


You could easily look at this as an activity finder where healing and tanking isn't required due to ZOS buffs and scaling and that works too as long as the leaderboards, achievements are turned off.

I think the quality of loot would be different too but all in all....either of those two ideas offer something more meaningful

NewBlacksmurf

Yes, I'd like an optional public dungeon version of existing and new Trials

Nifty2g wrote: »

You need a leader for trials and organisation for them. How would you be able to do that otherwise

@Nifty2g

You don't need a leader for public dungeons. You just go play. So as mentioned above, certain small changes would be present but that's no different than any public dungeon now.

If referring to my other comment on an easy mode via the activity finder, people are intelligent enough on lower difficulty encounters to self manage.

Dungeons work just fine and let's think of the easy mode like a version of the WoW lfg Raid finder.
As long as the activity finder works, it's no issue.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

No, I wouldn't like an optional public dungeon. I just want the trails to be trials

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

You need a leader for trials and organisation for them. How would you be able to do that otherwise

@Nifty2g

You don't need a leader for public dungeons. You just go play. So as mentioned above, certain small changes would be present but that's no different than any public dungeon now.

If referring to my other comment on an easy mode via the activity finder, people are intelligent enough on lower difficulty encounters to self manage.

Dungeons work just fine and let's think of the easy mode like a version of the WoW lfg Raid finder.
As long as the activity finder works, it's no issue.

I think people are getting confused because the OP says public dungeon. And most public dungeons can be soloed by one person. Yet later on we are talking about the activity finder finding people to go in.

So you just want a really easy raid but not public dungeon level easy.

idk

No, I wouldn't like an optional public dungeon. I just want the trails to be trials

It would be OK if it just dropped junk. There is alread a normal mode for trials and that is really enough.

After all, it's an MMO and MMOs like this traditionally have group content that requires a group. It's life and should stay that way.


Again, as long as it does not drop any of the trial gear and only gave stuff you normally find in a public dungeon I would not complain.

AlnilamE

No, I wouldn't like an optional public dungeon. I just want the trails to be trials

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

In order for more people to experience the storylines, yes. But with none of the Trial achievements and none of the Loot that is exclusive to Trials.

Agree completely

How should that work without completly redesigning most of the trials?
Let's take AA since it's the first one according to the story line:
1. You can't open the door as long as the frost atros are alive. What happens if someone killed them before you entered the dungeon? Will the doors shut as soon as the atros spawn? And what happens if you made it through the door before they shut, but one of your friends didn't? Does he have to solo kill them / wait for new people to enter?
2. Teleporters have to be redesigned, otherwise you still need 12 coordinated people
3. When will the bridges spawn / despawn?
4. What about the split trash that has to be killed in a certain order to stop them respawning forever?
5. Thanks to teleports and jumping the dungeon is very linear. What if a friend is left behind when mobs respawn? How do you want to help them?
6. What do you do about mage chain lightning? Will it allow random players to wipe you by standing next to you?
7. What happens if a player enters the last boss platform while it is in execute phase? Will he just instantly die?

And that's just an relatively simple trial. Now think about transforming MoL to a public dungeon with all it's one shot mechanics, multiple add waves that are triggered when you enter an area and numerous doors that are shut untill you kill certain enemies.

I'm not opposed to intressting public pve content, I just can't see how switching trials to public has an advantage over adjusting craglorn events / existing public dungeons or creating something completely new.

This is pretty much what I thought when I read it. Or how does one go about the first Atro boss? Would you be able to just revive in boss battles?

There is no way you can "simplify" the trials into a public dungeon and still give them the feel that they have now. Maybe they should be added to the group finder, but honestly, if my guild of laid-back PvE players can do most of them given enough effort, then anyone can. And the stories and such are part of the fun.

I think your idea would pretty much suck out the fun of the whole experience.