Changes to Bone Shield

UltimaJoe777

Why was that cancelled? Stamina builds could REALLY use a good damage shield like Magicka builds have...

In case anyone doesn't know what I mean or forgot Bone Shield was going to change to scaling off Max Stamina instead of Max Health in the Dark Brotherhood patch. That did not happen though.

Caza99

Stamina have rally, vigor, shuffle and more dodge rolls to keep themselves alive. Why would they need Bone Shield as well?

UltimaJoe777

Caza99 wrote: »

Stamina have rally, vigor, shuffle and more dodge rolls to keep themselves alive. Why would they need Bone Shield as well?

I think you miss the point and purpose of damage shields...

Caza99

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Caza99 wrote: »

Stamina have rally, vigor, shuffle and more dodge rolls to keep themselves alive. Why would they need Bone Shield as well?

I think you miss the point and purpose of damage shields...

I think you miss how stupidly OP stamina would be in PvP if they had damage shields as well as what they have now.

UltimaJoe777

Caza99 wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Caza99 wrote: »

Stamina have rally, vigor, shuffle and more dodge rolls to keep themselves alive. Why would they need Bone Shield as well?

I think you miss the point and purpose of damage shields...

I think you miss how stupidly OP stamina would be in PvP if they had damage shields as well as what they have now.

It would be no different than what Magicka has. Oh wait, yes it would, because the change to Bone Shield would still not produce shields as strong as Magicka is capable of having. However, it would help immensely. Can't always spend time dodging when you need to attack and heals over time can only cover so much.

cavakthestampede

Magicka shields aren't on every class, or equal across all classes. Does anyone besides Sorcerers have a native shield skill that scales with magicka? I think the DK one might also. Templar shields scale with health, nightblades have no shields.

So, having it scale off health is good for everybody. Having it scale off Stamina is good for stamina builds. Lots of templars, nightblades, and tanks of all color will prefer the current bone shield.

Caza99

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Caza99 wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Caza99 wrote: »

Stamina have rally, vigor, shuffle and more dodge rolls to keep themselves alive. Why would they need Bone Shield as well?

I think you miss the point and purpose of damage shields...

I think you miss how stupidly OP stamina would be in PvP if they had damage shields as well as what they have now.

It would be no different than what Magicka has. Oh wait, yes it would, because the change to Bone Shield would still not produce shields as strong as Magicka is capable of having. However, it would help immensely. Can't always spend time dodging when you need to attack and heals over time can only cover so much.

If you have that much trouble playing Stam that you feel they need a damage shield, you are doing something wrong.
Giving stamina a damage shield like this would make any decent stamina player nearly unkillable small scale. Can you actually stop for a minute and think about what this would do? Shuffle is already arguably over powered, vigor is an awesome heal over time, rally is a heal over time and a burst heal, and you want to add a damage shield to this?
Sure the shield won't be as strong as a magicka one, but it doesn't need to be when you can completely negate damage with shuffle and dodge rolls.

UltimaJoe777

cavakthestampede wrote: »

Magicka shields aren't on every class, or equal across all classes. Does anyone besides Sorcerers have a native shield skill that scales with magicka? I think the DK one might also. Templar shields scale with health, nightblades have no shields.

So, having it scale off health is good for everybody. Having it scale off Stamina is good for stamina builds. Lots of templars, nightblades, and tanks of all color will prefer the current bone shield.

Ever since the change to Annulment Magicka builds of every sort have access to a great damage shield. Stamina on the other hand...

I see your point about Bone Shield on Health builds though. Templar has Sun Shield sure and all Sorc and DK get are more Magicka shields. Perhaps Obsidian Shield should have a stamina morph at least... Or perhaps Bone Shield could compromise and scale off of whichever is higher between Health and Stamina?

Caza99 wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Caza99 wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Caza99 wrote: »

Stamina have rally, vigor, shuffle and more dodge rolls to keep themselves alive. Why would they need Bone Shield as well?

I think you miss the point and purpose of damage shields...

I think you miss how stupidly OP stamina would be in PvP if they had damage shields as well as what they have now.

It would be no different than what Magicka has. Oh wait, yes it would, because the change to Bone Shield would still not produce shields as strong as Magicka is capable of having. However, it would help immensely. Can't always spend time dodging when you need to attack and heals over time can only cover so much.

If you have that much trouble playing Stam that you feel they need a damage shield, you are doing something wrong.
Giving stamina a damage shield like this would make any decent stamina player nearly unkillable small scale. Can you actually stop for a minute and think about what this would do? Shuffle is already arguably over powered, vigor is an awesome heal over time, rally is a heal over time and a burst heal, and you want to add a damage shield to this?
Sure the shield won't be as strong as a magicka one, but it doesn't need to be when you can completely negate damage with shuffle and dodge rolls.

No it does not mean I am doing something wrong. It means I literally have to give up every single aspect of defense to get as much DPS as possible while I don't have to do the same with Magicka. Sure they can dodge, but only so much. Sure there's Vigor, but it's a heal over time. Would be awesome if it was an instaheal but alas it is not. Rally is for 2-handed users only, and not everyone runs that, nor should they have to.

Brrrofski

Stam doesn't need it.

If you need further proof, how many magica builds actually run a shield? Since the changes, I haven't seen practically anyone running harness magica except sorcs still.

UltimaJoe777

Brrrofski wrote: »

Stam doesn't need it.

If you need further proof, how many magica builds actually run a shield? Since the changes, I haven't seen practically anyone running harness magica except sorcs still.

I can't speak for others, but I have builds that rely on shields and work fine.

Caza99

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

cavakthestampede wrote: »

Magicka shields aren't on every class, or equal across all classes. Does anyone besides Sorcerers have a native shield skill that scales with magicka? I think the DK one might also. Templar shields scale with health, nightblades have no shields.

So, having it scale off health is good for everybody. Having it scale off Stamina is good for stamina builds. Lots of templars, nightblades, and tanks of all color will prefer the current bone shield.

Ever since the change to Annulment Magicka builds of every sort have access to a great damage shield. Stamina on the other hand...

I see your point about Bone Shield on Health builds though. Templar has Sun Shield sure and all Sorc and DK get are more Magicka shields. Perhaps Obsidian Shield should have a stamina morph at least...

Caza99 wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Caza99 wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Caza99 wrote: »

Stamina have rally, vigor, shuffle and more dodge rolls to keep themselves alive. Why would they need Bone Shield as well?

I think you miss the point and purpose of damage shields...

I think you miss how stupidly OP stamina would be in PvP if they had damage shields as well as what they have now.

It would be no different than what Magicka has. Oh wait, yes it would, because the change to Bone Shield would still not produce shields as strong as Magicka is capable of having. However, it would help immensely. Can't always spend time dodging when you need to attack and heals over time can only cover so much.

If you have that much trouble playing Stam that you feel they need a damage shield, you are doing something wrong.
Giving stamina a damage shield like this would make any decent stamina player nearly unkillable small scale. Can you actually stop for a minute and think about what this would do? Shuffle is already arguably over powered, vigor is an awesome heal over time, rally is a heal over time and a burst heal, and you want to add a damage shield to this?
Sure the shield won't be as strong as a magicka one, but it doesn't need to be when you can completely negate damage with shuffle and dodge rolls.

No it does not mean I am doing something wrong. It means I literally have to give up every single aspect of defense to get as much DPS as possible while I don't have to do the same with Magicka. Sure they can dodge, but only so much. Sure there's Vigor, but it's a heal over time. Would be awesome if it was an instaheal but alas it is not. Rally is for 2-handed users only, and not everyone runs that, nor should they have to.

I really hope you're trolling right now....
Firstly what class are you playing?
Second, what?!?! Triggered by that having to drop all defense argument....
I don't even know where to start here. Well let's begin with defense on stamina: shuffle, vigor, rolling, rally are available to all classes. And there are class specific defense options as well, such as rune focus, purify and the healing buff on a stamina templar. Stamina doesn't need to drop much defense at all to put out insane DPS. Ugh I could go on but it'd be like talking to a brick wall at this point. There's a reason 75% of cyrodiil is stamina. It's ridiculous damage, sustain and survivability is that reason. They don't need to drop all defense to stack offense, and they can still manage decent recovery stats.

Brrrofski

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Stam doesn't need it.

If you need further proof, how many magica builds actually run a shield? Since the changes, I haven't seen practically anyone running harness magica except sorcs still.

I can't speak for others, but I have builds that rely on shields and work fine.

Well I barely see anyone using them. I don't feel like any of my magica builds (I've had max everything for a while) except sorc needs a shield.

I also have never felt the need for a shield on a Stam build, and stamplar and stam Sorc have been my most played in pvp for a while. Both of which have 21k health. Roll, kite, shuffle all help keep me alive just fine.

UltimaJoe777

Brrrofski wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Stam doesn't need it.

If you need further proof, how many magica builds actually run a shield? Since the changes, I haven't seen practically anyone running harness magica except sorcs still.

I can't speak for others, but I have builds that rely on shields and work fine.

Well I barely see anyone using them. I don't feel like any of my magica builds (I've had max everything for a while) except sorc needs a shield.

I also have never felt the need for a shield on a Stam build, and stamplar and stam Sorc have been my most played in pvp for a while. Both of which have 21k health. Roll, kite, shuffle all help keep me alive just fine.

Yeah Templar and Sorcerer have good supportive capabilities, and I'm not denying the fruits of using skills like Shuffle or as previously mentioned Vigor and if need be I always have Bolstering Darkness as a last resort but sometimes that just isn't enough with my build, and I do not wish to change it just because it lacks defense. Still though a Damage Shield friendly to Stamina-specialized builds would be nice since both Health and Magicka have them. As an archer a great Damage Shield would be awesome, especially when overrun by ads coming from all over out of nowhere.

Caza99

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Stam doesn't need it.

If you need further proof, how many magica builds actually run a shield? Since the changes, I haven't seen practically anyone running harness magica except sorcs still.

I can't speak for others, but I have builds that rely on shields and work fine.

Well I barely see anyone using them. I don't feel like any of my magica builds (I've had max everything for a while) except sorc needs a shield.

I also have never felt the need for a shield on a Stam build, and stamplar and stam Sorc have been my most played in pvp for a while. Both of which have 21k health. Roll, kite, shuffle all help keep me alive just fine.

Yeah Templar and Sorcerer have good supportive capabilities, and I'm not denying the fruits of using skills like Shuffle or as previously mentioned Vigor and if need be I always have Bolstering Darkness as a last resort but sometimes that just isn't enough with my build, and I do not wish to change it just because it lacks defense. Still though a Damage Shield friendly to Stamina-specialized builds would be nice since both Health and Magicka have them.

Ermahgerd a stamina night blade asking for a buff, I've now seen it all. Tomorrow pigs will fly.

Tormy

Nah stamina doesn't need a shield and I play all stam

dday3six

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Stam doesn't need it.

If you need further proof, how many magica builds actually run a shield? Since the changes, I haven't seen practically anyone running harness magica except sorcs still.

I can't speak for others, but I have builds that rely on shields and work fine.

Well I barely see anyone using them. I don't feel like any of my magica builds (I've had max everything for a while) except sorc needs a shield.

I also have never felt the need for a shield on a Stam build, and stamplar and stam Sorc have been my most played in pvp for a while. Both of which have 21k health. Roll, kite, shuffle all help keep me alive just fine.

Yeah Templar and Sorcerer have good supportive capabilities, and I'm not denying the fruits of using skills like Shuffle or as previously mentioned Vigor and if need be I always have Bolstering Darkness as a last resort but sometimes that just isn't enough with my build, and I do not wish to change it just because it lacks defense. Still though a Damage Shield friendly to Stamina-specialized builds would be nice since both Health and Magicka have them. As an archer a great Damage Shield would be awesome, especially when overrun by ads coming from all over out of nowhere.

Not wanting to change your build is not a valid reason for ZOS to make a game wide change.

Stamina builds have increased defensive options from an increased Stamina Pool. They can block, dodge, and break-free more readily. That's why Magicka, and to a lesser extent Health builds (i.e. Tank builds) have damage shields.

UltimaJoe777

dday3six wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Stam doesn't need it.

If you need further proof, how many magica builds actually run a shield? Since the changes, I haven't seen practically anyone running harness magica except sorcs still.

I can't speak for others, but I have builds that rely on shields and work fine.

Well I barely see anyone using them. I don't feel like any of my magica builds (I've had max everything for a while) except sorc needs a shield.

I also have never felt the need for a shield on a Stam build, and stamplar and stam Sorc have been my most played in pvp for a while. Both of which have 21k health. Roll, kite, shuffle all help keep me alive just fine.

Yeah Templar and Sorcerer have good supportive capabilities, and I'm not denying the fruits of using skills like Shuffle or as previously mentioned Vigor and if need be I always have Bolstering Darkness as a last resort but sometimes that just isn't enough with my build, and I do not wish to change it just because it lacks defense. Still though a Damage Shield friendly to Stamina-specialized builds would be nice since both Health and Magicka have them. As an archer a great Damage Shield would be awesome, especially when overrun by ads coming from all over out of nowhere.

Not wanting to change your build is not a valid reason for ZOS to make a game wide change.

Stamina builds have increased defensive options from an increased Stamina Pool. They can block, dodge, and break-free more readily. That's why Magicka, and to a lesser extent Health builds (i.e. Tank builds) have damage shields.

Yes I know but my request comes from the simple fact Stamina doesn't have one over needing one in general. I realize it's a stretch but can't hurt to ask. I'm also aware now if Bone Shield changed it would indeed inconvenience some Health builds. It is true Stamina can dodge, block, etc. more than Health and Magicka builds but is it truly the same? Stamina is so freaking cramped in ability choices it almost FORCES cookie cutter builds. Now I'm not blaming the lack of Stamina damage shields for that but since healing is an effective alternative and we have 2 stamina heals over time it really makes you wonder...

Basically in a nutshell I seek more defensive methods for Stamina builds beyond core mechanics. Hopefully it'll be possible someday...

Forestd16b14_ESO

Hmm

*sits in comfy chair and munches on popcorn*

Sorry Joe get ready for the mages..... At least they'll be able to give me some salt for my popcorn....... Wonder if any have cheddar salt...

Also still waiting for resistance to be a valid defense in PvP. No? ZoS still refuses to do anything about it still making heavy armor horribly under powered ? Yea... thought so....

*munches popcorn*

UltimaJoe777

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Hmm

*sits in comfy chair and munches on popcorn*

Sorry Joe get ready for the mages..... At least they'll be able to give me some salt for my popcorn....... Wonder if any have cheddar salt...

Sorry, this thread lost steam after cavak pointed out how much changing Bone Shield would influence Health Builds. I'm honestly certain that is the very reason they backed out of the change. So basically nothing to see here lol

Perhaps someday Stamina will get a universal damage shield, but today there isn't one in sight...

Forestd16b14_ESO

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Hmm

*sits in comfy chair and munches on popcorn*

Sorry Joe get ready for the mages..... At least they'll be able to give me some salt for my popcorn....... Wonder if any have cheddar salt...

Sorry, this thread lost steam after cavak pointed out how much changing Bone Shield would influence Health Builds. I'm honestly certain that is the very reason they backed out of the change. So basically nothing to see here lol

Perhaps someday Stamina will get a universal damage shield, but today there isn't one in sight...

Maybe but as I edited in my earlier post... waiting for resistance to become a valid defense option cause lets be honest here...... it isn't.

It's mitigation capped at 50% at 33K resistance but is easily laughable reduced in so many ways turning that 33K into 12K, 10K, or even 7K resistance....... Yea heavy armor still lack luster and perma-blocking (seeing how that's some how back and making false tanks) kinda relies on resistance.