Only 3 Magicka Focused Races?

Lord_Eomer

I found only three magicka focused races currently, argonian will be 4th and all remaining 6 races are focused on stamina. (Dunmer have stamina increase pasives, they may be sort of hybrid not pure magicka)

Is this not stamina biased approach? Should not be there more hybrid races? Instead of 6 pure stamina focused?

Not expecting responses like Racial pasives does not matter etc.

IcyDeadPeople

I imagine at launch the idea may have been to have one magicka, one stamina and one health race in each alliance.

After removal of softcaps it became evident High Elf and Redguard were quite a bit stronger than all the other options, and there have been some buffs to Khajiit, Bosmer and various small adjustments to try to bring the others up to that level but the balance isn't quite there yet.

Lord_Eomer

ESO can not live with soft caps or else game will stop progressing and playera will start leaving due to have no progress.

But more and more races buffed to stamina? Magicka have been ignored and becomes limited to 3? That's why magicka races have very less variety comparing Stamina.

Developer even did not notice what were they doing with races? Or may be it was intentional.

Tryxus

Not everyone is fit to be a mage

-looks at the average Nord gulping down his mead-

I rest my case

Lord_Eomer

Tryxus wrote: »

Not everyone is fit to be a mage

-looks at the average Nord gulping down his mead-

I rest my case

Should have been balance between stamina and magicka. This is very unfair and lore can not be blamed for such unbalance.

Semner

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

I found only three magicka focused races currently, argonian will be 4th and all remaining 6 races are focused on stamina. (Dunmer have stamina increase pasives, they may be sort of hybrid not pure magicka)

Is this not stamina biased approach? Should not be there more hybrid races? Instead of 6 pure stamina focused?

Not expecting responses like Racial pasives does not matter etc.

But are there *really* 6 pure stamina focused? Seems to be that Nord, Orc, and Imperial are designed to be tank races.

Tryxus

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Not everyone is fit to be a mage

-looks at the average Nord gulping down his mead-

I rest my case

Should have been balance between stamina and magicka. This is very unfair and lore can not be blamed for such unbalance.

Actually it can:

- Some races have more magical talents than others
- Although other races can learn magic too (Imperial Battlemages for instance), they still won't have as many mages as the magical races have

Lord_Eomer

Semner wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

I found only three magicka focused races currently, argonian will be 4th and all remaining 6 races are focused on stamina. (Dunmer have stamina increase pasives, they may be sort of hybrid not pure magicka)

Is this not stamina biased approach? Should not be there more hybrid races? Instead of 6 pure stamina focused?

Not expecting responses like Racial pasives does not matter etc.

But are there *really* 6 pure stamina focused? Seems to be that Nord, Orc, and Imperial are designed to be tank races.

They all have weapon damage buff or stamina buff,

It's irrelevant for Magicka builds and yes they are stamina focused may not be pure DPS foxused. This variety is what Magicka lacking.

Orc stamina sorcerer is beating many good races in DPS. Imperials is well known stamina hybrid race that can be very good DPS or tank. Nord are getting stamina buff with upcoming update.

Lord_Eomer

Tryxus wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Not everyone is fit to be a mage

-looks at the average Nord gulping down his mead-

I rest my case

Should have been balance between stamina and magicka. This is very unfair and lore can not be blamed for such unbalance.

Actually it can:

- Some races have more magical talents than others
- Although other races can learn magic too (Imperial Battlemages for instance), they still won't have as many mages as the magical races have

Tryxus wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Not everyone is fit to be a mage

-looks at the average Nord gulping down his mead-

I rest my case

Should have been balance between stamina and magicka. This is very unfair and lore can not be blamed for such unbalance.

Actually it can:

- Some races have more magical talents than others
- Although other races can learn magic too (Imperial Battlemages for instance), they still won't have as many mages as the magical races have

Tryxus wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Not everyone is fit to be a mage

-looks at the average Nord gulping down his mead-

I rest my case

Should have been balance between stamina and magicka. This is very unfair and lore can not be blamed for such unbalance.

Actually it can:

- Some races have more magical talents than others
- Although other races can learn magic too (Imperial Battlemages for instance), they still won't have as many mages as the magical races have

Tryxus wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Not everyone is fit to be a mage

-looks at the average Nord gulping down his mead-

I rest my case

Should have been balance between stamina and magicka. This is very unfair and lore can not be blamed for such unbalance.

Actually it can:

- Some races have more magical talents than others
- Although other races can learn magic too (Imperial Battlemages for instance), they still won't have as many mages as the magical races have

There are only three races with magicka the talent and rest have stamina focused.

If you use stamina focused race I.e. imperial to mage build, you will definitely lose DPS..whixh matter in end game trials and pvp..

starkerealm

Tryxus wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Not everyone is fit to be a mage

-looks at the average Nord gulping down his mead-

I rest my case

Should have been balance between stamina and magicka. This is very unfair and lore can not be blamed for such unbalance.

Actually it can:

- Some races have more magical talents than others
- Although other races can learn magic too (Imperial Battlemages for instance), they still won't have as many mages as the magical races have

On top of that, The Elder Scrolls is a very magical setting. Mages can, and do, swing a very big stick in the setting as a whole.

The racial passives, in most cases, focus on what those races excel at in the single player games.

Nords are big, like to hit things, and get punched in the face. Oh, look.

Redguards prefer direct combat.

Imperials are tough and versatile.

Orcs are big and really like to hit things.

Bretons are gutter elves.

Bosmer are stealthy, bow focused lunatics.

Altmer are arrogant mages.

Dunmer are misanthropes.

Khajiit are stealthy and steal all the things.

Argonians are focused on poisons and amphibious... oh, well, crap.

But, seriously, the racial passives do sync up with their single player incarnations fairly well. The weak points are the Dunmer and Argonians. Mostly because those to races have the least coherent themes going for them. At least when it comes to rule systems and mechanics.

Tryxus

starkerealm wrote: »

On top of that, The Elder Scrolls is a very magical setting. Mages can, and do, swing a very big stick in the setting as a whole.

Magic is everywhere: flowing from Aetherius through the holes that Magnus and the Magna-Ge have torn in the heavens

starkerealm wrote: »

But, seriously, the racial passives do sync up with their single player incarnations fairly well. The weak points are the Dunmer and Argonians. Mostly because those to races have the least coherent themes going for them. At least when it comes to rule systems and mechanics.

Dunmer have always been a Spellsword type of race in the main games, which according to a quote from one in ESO is kinda fitting:

"We fight this harsh land every day in order to survive" (something along those lines, in Stonefalls)

They are adept at fighting with both blade and magic

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Not everyone is fit to be a mage

-looks at the average Nord gulping down his mead-

I rest my case

Should have been balance between stamina and magicka. This is very unfair and lore can not be blamed for such unbalance.

Actually it can:

- Some races have more magical talents than others
- Although other races can learn magic too (Imperial Battlemages for instance), they still won't have as many mages as the magical races have

There are only three races with magicka the talent and rest have stamina focused.

If you use stamina focused race I.e. imperial to mage build, you will definitely lose DPS..whixh matter in end game trials and pvp..

It does make sense in a way. Let's take an average Orc, who decides to use magic. He's obviously gonna have a harder time getting the hang of it than an average Breton (read somewhere that even Breton children practice Illusion magicks in the streets, but can't remember which book )

So even if the Orc does learn spells, he won't be as proficient as other people from the Magicka races. Unless he's a magical prodigy (J'Zargo )

Milvan

Different than HP world, in TES magic is very democratic, anyone can learn it (tho there is probably a economic barrier of having money for education, books etc)

Not all races have natural/cultural (not really sure if the racial features are from their social-cultural enviroment or just biologic/genetic approach) propensity for magic. Btw, Khajiit's breed Alfiq is magic talented as well. Probably maomers are probably like dunmers, but water/ice oriented.

starkerealm

Milvan wrote: »

Different than HP world, in TES magic is very democratic, anyone can learn it (tho there is probably a economic barrier of having money for education, books etc)

Not all races have natural/cultural (not really sure if the racial features are from their social-cultural enviroment or just biologic/genetic approach) propensity for magic. Btw, Khajiit's breed Alfiq is magic talented as well. Probably maomers are probably like dunmers, but water/ice oriented.

Some races (Bretons, Altmer) have an easier time channeling or storing Magicka (it isn't completely consistent), than others. Some of it is cultural, however.

Minalan

Tryxus wrote: »

Not everyone is fit to be a mage

-looks at the average Nord gulping down his mead-

I rest my case

Except... Shalidor. He was a better Mage than Vanus ever will be.

starkerealm wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

Different than HP world, in TES magic is very democratic, anyone can learn it (tho there is probably a economic barrier of having money for education, books etc)

Not all races have natural/cultural (not really sure if the racial features are from their social-cultural enviroment or just biologic/genetic approach) propensity for magic. Btw, Khajiit's breed Alfiq is magic talented as well. Probably maomers are probably like dunmers, but water/ice oriented.

Some races (Bretons, Altmer) have an easier time channeling or storing Magicka (it isn't completely consistent), than others. Some of it is cultural, however.

Bretons always received a dragonskin passive, allowing them to absorb spell damage directly into Magicka. Like 20% or so if I remember.

That made them amazingly effective in any fight against magic users. It would wreck an altmer. But that would be OP as hell in ESO. So they tried to sort of implement it with max Magicka, a tiny bit of spell resist, and a little cost reduction.

And what they did was sort of weak compared to the others.

Totalitarian

Minalan wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Not everyone is fit to be a mage

-looks at the average Nord gulping down his mead-

I rest my case

Except... Shalidor. He was a better Mage than Vanus ever will be.

Please note average. I have bolded it to make it more clear.

There are always exceptions to everything. Actually, stuff tends to follow a normal distribution, in real life.



It's a rather good idea of gauging anything statistical (unless it follows a different distribution). Basically, the normal distribution for magical talent has the average magical talent for a given race in the center, where the function has a maximum. While as you go further out, you get more (or less) (depending on direction) magical talent. Also, probability of finding a skilled mage, or absolutely 0 talent for magic whatsoever becomes harder and harder as you move up the talent, or lacktherof tree.

Note that individual races had varying degrees of magical talent, so the normal distribution would be shifted to the right or left (right being for more magical talent, because I defined it like that).

TL;DR: Shalidor is a very skilled mage that is a statistical outlier. Most Nords aren't skilled mages.

starkerealm

Minalan wrote: »

Bretons always received a dragonskin passive, allowing them to absorb spell damage directly into Magicka. Like 20% or so if I remember.

I believe the word you were looking for was "never," not "always." The only time the Bretons have gotten a spell absorption effect was in Skyrim. Dragonskin has never been a passive, it's been a once per day major power, at least starting with Morrowind.

Like I said, there's been inconsistency with the games. In Morrowind, Bretons had +50% max magicka, and 50% spell resist. In Oblivion that changed to +50 magicka and 50% spell resist. In Skyrim they chucked the max magicka up completely, and halved the spell resist to 25%.

So, like I said, the setting has never been completely consistent about what's going on with the magical races of Tamriel.

AshTal

As people have said soft caps made sense. Plus I seem to recall either we didn't know or they didn't Magic and Stamina didn't increase damage so it was more open to what you wanted to play (plus health use to be 20 points a point). However these days maxing out a stat is essential. I use to mix health and magic on my Argonain sorc now its pure magic with ever rune magic and all gear magic and spell damage.

I wonder if one day racials will vanish and they will just be for a faster skill raise and the swim speed racial.

Lord_Eomer

AshTal wrote: »

As people have said soft caps made sense. Plus I seem to recall either we didn't know or they didn't Magic and Stamina didn't increase damage so it was more open to what you wanted to play (plus health use to be 20 points a point). However these days maxing out a stat is essential. I use to mix health and magic on my Argonain sorc now its pure magic with ever rune magic and all gear magic and spell damage.

I wonder if one day racials will vanish and they will just be for a faster skill raise and the swim speed racial.

I wish racial to go, so the racial comparison will go away.

As I myself play mostly magicka (have all stamina races characters), as was doing previously in all elder scrolls games.

The gaps b\w mage and stamina builds are clearly visible due to limited magicka races availability.

For example: we have best stamina DPS PVE and PVP.

PVE = khajit with critical % chance buff
PVP = Redguard

We have well stamina hybrid races

Imperial
Dunmer

We have balanced pvp and pve racea
Bosmer
Orc

We have best stamina tanks:
Nord
Imperial
Orc

No body wants to roll out Nord as best DPS because existing races are offering much more DPS.

Stamina have very good variety comparing magicka have three races 2 dps and 1 mediocre (breton)..

Lumenn

bosmer lore has them with magic. Spinners use illusion when telling their tales, and they used to get a plus in alteration(oblivion for sure, haven't checked the others) so they may not be "known" as battle mages but the talent is there. much like argonians shadow lore, it's been ignored. Bosmer are the perfect thieves, sneak, hiding, bow, agility, and an ignored magicka disposition towards illusion. Wish they'd add at least magicka regen so they'd regen stam/magic to counter dark elves base stam/magic instead of purposely designing and locking us as 2nd best stamina dps/sustain.

Junkogen

They could do a lot more to make Argonians a really attractive choice for magicka, but they keep sticking their developer toe in the water afraid to jump in. They try to preserve the old while needing to just throw it out and redo it. I don't know. A big thing that really has hurt Argonians is the other races. IMO, the devs are trying too hard to keep Argonians unique that they're not as good as they could be. For example, they won't give them a stealthy passive because of the Khajiit and Bosmer. And they won't make them good with magicka because of the Dunmer. And they won't make them great tanks because of the Nords. And they won't make them good with stamina because there are too many stamina races as it is. So...what to do with the Lizards? They give them niche passives that aren't lore-friendly but they're different. But because they're so niche you can't really create great builds. I don't know. They've just been so disadvantaged by the racial passive system. It sucks.

starkerealm

Lumenn wrote: »

bosmer lore has them with magic. Spinners use illusion when telling their tales, and they used to get a plus in alteration(oblivion for sure, haven't checked the others) so they may not be "known" as battle mages but the talent is there. much like argonians shadow lore, it's been ignored. Bosmer are the perfect thieves, sneak, hiding, bow, agility, and an ignored magicka disposition towards illusion. Wish they'd add at least magicka regen so they'd regen stam/magic to counter dark elves base stam/magic instead of purposely designing and locking us as 2nd best stamina dps/sustain.

Yeah, the alteration bonus in Oblivion was kinda weird (not sure if that was an Arena/Daggerfall thing I don't know about, but I doubt it). They did get an alchemy bonus in prior games.

That said, they were one of the best starting picks for nightblades in Morrowind. Also made very good starting assassins. They'd cap out lower because of how Morrowind handled it's skills, but still.

Waseem

i think it was designed as magicka, stamina and health.. spread to 10 racials each excel with one or two of them.

Lord_Eomer

Waseem wrote: »

i think it was designed as magicka, stamina and health.. spread to 10 racials each excel with one or two of them.

6 excel in stamina, health is out of DPS and alone can not make sense for being tanky (must be with stamina ) and have 3 magicka only currently.

lardvader

Tryxus wrote: »

Not everyone is fit to be a mage

-looks at the average Nord gulping down his mead-

I rest my case

WHAT! I can has *gulp* magicka!!!!11

Just stroke us in the right manner and we'll show you some magic tricks

WuffyCerulei

I don't care about racial passives, esp. for my khajiit sorc. She's a magicka sorc, but I've done a lot to have her hitting hard and somewhat sustainable.

Lord_Eomer

wolfninja101b14_ESO wrote: »

I don't care about racial passives, esp. for my khajiit sorc. She's a magicka sorc, but I've done a lot to have her hitting hard and somewhat sustainable.

You are clearly losing good DPS and sustain, may be it does not matter to you because you just want to play without effective build.

You should do end game trails or PVP to check your build effectiveness.

STEVIL

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

I found only three magicka focused races currently, argonian will be 4th and all remaining 6 races are focused on stamina. (Dunmer have stamina increase pasives, they may be sort of hybrid not pure magicka)

Is this not stamina biased approach? Should not be there more hybrid races? Instead of 6 pure stamina focused?

Not expecting responses like Racial pasives does not matter etc.

No it is not a stamina based approach.

Reason is... you can choose any or alol you want.

it would be a stamina based approach if you were required to spread out your choices evenly between races so they ended up with a population around 6-4 stamina heavy.

But you are not.

So its not.

Lord_Eomer

STEVIL wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

I found only three magicka focused races currently, argonian will be 4th and all remaining 6 races are focused on stamina. (Dunmer have stamina increase pasives, they may be sort of hybrid not pure magicka)

Is this not stamina biased approach? Should not be there more hybrid races? Instead of 6 pure stamina focused?

Not expecting responses like Racial pasives does not matter etc.

No it is not a stamina based approach.

Reason is... you can choose any or alol you want.

it would be a stamina based approach if you were required to spread out your choices evenly between races so they ended up with a population around 6-4 stamina heavy.

But you are not.

So its not.

In end game trails or effective builds developments this matter a lot,

As per your response, racial passives are completely useless (ignorable) so why not remove them instead?