Guild Traders, The Quandary

darjobuno

Yes I know there are a ton of Guild Trader posts already out there but I like my position heard.

1. We are a smaller guild of players who enjoy more than JUST selling goods.
2. You can only have 5 guilds and if your running a good guild you do not have time to involve yourself in other goings on.
3. The "successful" trade guilds have inactivity policies and sales quotas you must meet to stay in the guild. Not all of us can meet that criteria and would still like to sell our items.
4. If you attempt to find even the most remote trader to use as your guild trader 30k gold has become not even enough in the more populated alliances and you can not get a return on cost.
5. Your player base is continuing to grow and more of the "Large Trade Guilds" are taking over your guild trader location. So this condition that is taking place is only going to get worse.

I see it as a fairly simple issue with easy possible fixes.

Add more guild traders, perhaps in a "Trade District" so everyone can have a one stop shop and more guild traders are available for guilds to purchase.
This will cause more storage issues on the hard drives.
It will cause lag and bottle neck issues with servers.
It will put a lot of people in the same location at the same time, never a good idea.

Go to a global auction house scenario.
Players are afraid of undercutting and ruining the economy.
There will be the constant fighting about what is a fair price.
Most likely would be a whole drive devoted to just this purpose and may cause bottle necking as well.

Create consignments in existing vendor areas in each town. I like this idea the best. It allows you to sell area related items under the flags of the vendors so it is easy to find a store carrying what you want.
It is immersive way to fix the issue. Players are immersed in the culture of the town they are in and the vendors of the town.
The towns are already set up to accept heavier traffic flows on the system so bottle necking should be a non-issue.
Example: You can make it to where only the Enchanter sells consignment of enchanting items thus fixing the issue of "I have to look everywhere for what I want."
Sellers can sell items that are level dependent. Gear of level 10 being sold in a level 10 area.
You will be able to divide population up around the town instead of focused in one area to keep the "crowd casting" down to a minimum.

It is a great game and all great games have growing pains. Please don't let the pains go on too long.

AlnilamE

darjobuno wrote: »

Yes I know there are a ton of Guild Trader posts already out there but I like my position heard.

1. We are a smaller guild of players who enjoy more than JUST selling goods.

So are we. Yet we manage a guild trader about 80% of the time since they have come out.

4. The "successful" trade guilds have inactivity policies and sales quotas you must meet to stay in the guild. Not all of us can meet that criteria and would still like to sell our items.

In my "trading" guilds, I find that keeping my 30 slots filled is enough to meet any quota. If you are able to gather a single stack of raw mats and put that for sale, that would get you half-way there at least.

5. If you attempt to find even the most remote trader to use as your guild trader 30k gold has become not even enough in the more populated alliances and you can not get a return on cost.

It depends on what you consider the return. The guild taxes? Yeah, that's not going to pay for a trader in an out-of-the-way location if someone else also bids on them. However, if you consider total sales for the guild during the week, people putting in an additional 20-30k in funds for a trader that nets the guild 150-200k is a valid investment.

I see it as a fairly simple issue with easy possible fixes.

Add more guild traders, perhaps in a "Trade District" so everyone can have a one stop shop and more guild traders are available for guilds to purchase.
This will cause more storage issues on the hard drives.
It will cause lag and bottle neck issues with servers.
It will put a lot of people in the same location at the same time, never a good idea.

Each new zone they have added has come with at least half a dozen new traders.

Go to a global auction house scenario.
Players are afraid of undercutting and ruining the economy.
There will be the constant fighting about what is a fair price.
Most likely would be a whole drive devoted to just this purpose and may cause bottle necking as well.

I play a game with an Auction House (Black Desert). Auction Houses are boring. Next!

Create consignments in existing vendor areas in each town. I like this idea the best. It allows you to sell area related items under the flags of the vendors so it is easy to find a store carrying what you want.
It is immersive way to fix the issue. Players are immersed in the culture of the town they are in and the vendors of the town.
The towns are already set up to accept heavier traffic flows on the system so bottle necking should be a non-issue.
Example: You can make it to where only the Enchanter sells consignment of enchanting items thus fixing the issue of "I have to look everywhere for what I want."
Sellers can sell items that are level dependent. Gear of level 10 being sold in a level 10 area.
You will be able to divide population up around the town instead of focused in one area to keep the "crowd casting" down to a minimum.

Mmmmm.... That idea is intriguing. How would you limit the number of items that can be put up for consignment? 1 per Merchant? 30 total across all merchants? Would each trader have a limit on how many items total (across all players) they would be able to list at a time?

It is a great game and all great games have growing pains. Please don't let the pains go on too long.

Except for the fact that maintenance now falls in the middle of the time where the traders switch, I quite like the system. It allows small guilds like ours to get a trader if we know where to look.

Have you considered talking to your members and if someone is usually available when the traders switch/servers come back from maintenance have them look for an alternate? I found 2 empty traders this morning just as I was running around a few zones checking.

imnotanother

If they added 2 to 3 more traders, in each zone, it would help alleviate the problem.

Especially if the kiosk was not in a highly trafficked area. Larger guilds would not bother bidding for these locations.

LadyLokari

I really like the idea of consignment, but there is something that should be considered. One Tamriel is coming out fairly soon. If we've got no 'leveled' zones anymore, how is the item separation by level going to work? And what about items that dont have a particular level, like lockpicks, bait and things like Tannins and Tempers?

Just a thought.

cdebaca

@ZOS_GaryA

darjobuno

Just wanted to add a bit about the corruption of the Guild Trader system in place.

Been speaking with some folks who are in "LARGE Trading guilds". I am hearing rumors of the millions of gold they make each week and how this gold is being sold for real money. Yes we live in a capitalist society and if someone wants to make money off of lazy folks who don't want to really play the game so be it.

The issue that arises with this is... Who are the individuals involved in doing this? What kind of sway do they hold with the game developers? What is more important the availability for everyone to enjoy the ability to sell items in the game? or The promotion of these "Mega Guilds" (guilds that have grown so large that they have actually started subsidiary guilds and monopolize whole GT areas in the game.)

Our small active 100+ person guild has been trying for 4 weeks now to get a guild trader period that we can use and try to even break even. We are bidding 30k on guild traders in even the most obscure locations and we are unable to secure a GT. We have moved to outlying areas where virtually no one are in Cadwell Gold and Silver to find a GT.

Now One Tamriel looms in the future. This will mean that there will not be different instances of GTs to use and the competition will only get worse.

Myself I refuse to support huge trade guilds who, "May or May not be" using the gold I help earn them to make real money off the game.

I would think that our game creators would want to insure that "everyone" is given the opportunity to market their wares in stores to the public and not just the Wal-Marts in our gaming world.

Darjo is watching breathlessly to see what will happen with trading in the near future because it will tell him what the people he gives his money to every month think about the people playing their game. If nothing changes Darjo would feel that he is just a meal ticket to them.

Darjo has supplied viable answers to the issues at the beginning of this thread.

FloppyFrank

all i want is a *** search function on consoles

ComboBreaker88

Lol. 30k? Really? Also Guild Traders are not instanced. They're cross faction. Large trade guilds require an incredible amount of dedication and organization. There will always be people who abuse any system that is in place.

starkerealm

AlnilamE wrote: »

darjobuno wrote: »

4. The "successful" trade guilds have inactivity policies and sales quotas you must meet to stay in the guild. Not all of us can meet that criteria and would still like to sell our items.

In my "trading" guilds, I find that keeping my 30 slots filled is enough to meet any quota. If you are able to gather a single stack of raw mats and put that for sale, that would get you half-way there at least.

Weird... I can usually meet my guild's quotas on a single sale. Maybe it's an issue of what you're selling? I mean, I tend to list a lot of green recipes because they've got to be useful to someone. But, I'm not making much off them. High value stuff, like upgrade mats, aspect runes, motif pages, stuff people actually look for and buy? That goes pretty quickly, unless it's overpriced.

AntMan100673

Don't know what platform you're on but on Xbox EU guilds I'm in have lost their bid on a trader and then been able to pick one up for 100 gold that no-one had bid on. It requires having someone who can be on when the traders change though so if that's not you then you need to find someone else in the guild who can do it and give them access to bid.

As was said in another post the guild traders aren't instanced to just your alliance so the silver and gold zones will be the first zone for one of the other alliances, are the traders you're bidding on definitely out of the way?

30k not enough? I'm not surprised, up your bid. Most guilds (including the large trade guilds) don't make back what they spent to get the guild trader in just the taxes, they rely on people paying extra out of the money they're making.

The problem I see with most small guilds in out of the way places is that they set their prices too high, if your paying a lot less to get your trader than the big trade guilds in mournehold, rawl'kha etc then you should be able to sell for less than them. A lot of people will just buy from the main cities for convenience but there are enough people around who will look for a decent price that you can still make good sales. I don't get to play a huge amount and I'm not the biggest trader out there but this week I've donated 50k to guilds I'm in, banked 100k and I've got no idea how much I've spent but id be surprised if its under 100k as I've bought some expensive motif chapters I was missing. Most of these sales have come from what most people consider out of the way places

starkerealm

AntMan100673 wrote: »

30k not enough? I'm not surprised, up your bid. Most guilds (including the large trade guilds) don't make back what they spent to get the guild trader in just the taxes, they rely on people paying extra out of the money they're making.

For where bids are at, last I checked, 30k won't get you in the door in a major city. Those kiosks are expensive. And, @AntMan100673 is right. Most guilds pay for their kiosks through a mix of weekly dues, raffles, private auctions, and other activities. To be clear, those guilds make far more money than they spend on the kiosk, and it is, absolutely worth it to be in one, if you want to make money, but the guild's cut isn't nearly enough to cover the rent.

Rayya_Blackheart

I got lucky in mine where we got half of our bid back in taxes. My major trade guilds don't even put a dent into their down payment with taxes alone. The people who manage guild stores have to dedicate their week towards getting enough revenue, then be up as soon as the servers are on, pray you patch faster than most, see if you won or not, and then possibly begin the hunt for a new spot.

Pomaikai

I'm in a number of Large trade guilds. Do you know what the really evil one does with a portion of the gold they collect each week in raffles, private auctions, and taxes? They give it away to their members! Each week, someone becomes a millionaire. I know. I won a million gold one week! That was pretty damned awesome.

PS... I didn't sell it for real money either.

darjobuno

We are not just a trading guild as I stated at the beginning of this thread. We are out to enjoy the game. If your spending all your time worrying about getting the best drops to have the best treasure to sell in a guild trader to me your not having fun. Your working. To me a guild trader is where I unload the junk I don't want and to keep it from taking up space in the guild bank.

So no we are not going to pay an arm and a leg for a guild trader. Quite frankly I am surprised anyone wants to go through all the hub bub just to sell items.

"In my opinion" the guild trader system is a failed system and the devs are just beating a dead horse by trying to make it work. If you are only in one trade guild that is only 30 spaces worth of sales. If your in more than one trade guild your having to.. again "In my opinion" work just to meet quotas so your not kicked out of a trade guild so you have a place to sell things.

Add the fact that now we are picking up Japan, and adding to our player base even more traders are going to be used up and prices for traders are going to get even higher.

Myself I am to the point where I will just give up trying to find affordable traders and just sell all my stuff to vendors because it really is not worth the headache to me to try to sell anything to players. I want to enjoy the game not have to spend all my time running around the world trying to find an affordable GT for my guild.

I don't even shop on guild traders because its a pain in the arse to find the things I want.

Consider my participation done on this subject. I give up.

darjobuno

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

Lol. 30k? Really? Also Guild Traders are not instanced. They're cross faction. Large trade guilds require an incredible amount of dedication and organization. There will always be people who abuse any system that is in place.

The guild traders are not cross faction. If your in AD your not selling items in the DC version of Skywatch for example. Those are the gold and silver versions "Right Now" of the game. You are still only selling to your alliance.

When the game goes to One Tamriel. The gold and silver versions of those factions will go away and you will be playing the DC lands in the DC alliance. You will not be in Cadwell's gold or silver.

This means the AD traders, EP traders, and DC traders will be all competing against each other for the best kiosks. Also keep in mind that these trader experiences will vary depending upon your Mega Server.

But again I am done with the topic. I will sell my junk to vendors. Not worth the headache arguing about an easier version of trading.

starkerealm

Pomaikai wrote: »

I'm in a number of Large trade guilds. Do you know what the really evil one does with a portion of the gold they collect each week in raffles, private auctions, and taxes? They give it away to their members! Each week, someone becomes a millionaire. I know. I won a million gold one week! That was pretty damned awesome.

PS... I didn't sell it for real money either.

Those monsters! How can they live with themselves knowing what kind of generosity they've inflicted on the unsuspecting.

Though, seriously, congrats.

Rayya_Blackheart

Pomaikai wrote: »

I'm in a number of Large trade guilds. Do you know what the really evil one does with a portion of the gold they collect each week in raffles, private auctions, and taxes? They give it away to their members! Each week, someone becomes a millionaire. I know. I won a million gold one week! That was pretty damned awesome.

PS... I didn't sell it for real money either.

I too am awful... my guild does raffles where 1 person gets half the donated gold and 2 other people get some other prize I come up with. If we get 200k donated then I add another prize, typically farming a zone of their choice for 2 hours.

Guild traders take work. More than I anticipated. It's just another aspect of how to play the game.

kargen27

darjobuno wrote: »

We are not just a trading guild as I stated at the beginning of this thread. We are out to enjoy the game. If your spending all your time worrying about getting the best drops to have the best treasure to sell in a guild trader to me your not having fun. Your working. To me a guild trader is where I unload the junk I don't want and to keep it from taking up space in the guild bank.

So no we are not going to pay an arm and a leg for a guild trader. Quite frankly I am surprised anyone wants to go through all the hub bub just to sell items.

"In my opinion" the guild trader system is a failed system and the devs are just beating a dead horse by trying to make it work. If you are only in one trade guild that is only 30 spaces worth of sales. If your in more than one trade guild your having to.. again "In my opinion" work just to meet quotas so your not kicked out of a trade guild so you have a place to sell things.

Add the fact that now we are picking up Japan, and adding to our player base even more traders are going to be used up and prices for traders are going to get even higher.

Myself I am to the point where I will just give up trying to find affordable traders and just sell all my stuff to vendors because it really is not worth the headache to me to try to sell anything to players. I want to enjoy the game not have to spend all my time running around the world trying to find an affordable GT for my guild.

I don't even shop on guild traders because its a pain in the arse to find the things I want.

Consider my participation done on this subject. I give up.

Seems less that it is a failed system and is just an aspect of the game you choose not to participate in. It is akin to saying you refuse to spend time in Cyradiil and PVP is broken because you can't be the emperor. Some people think the most entertaining part of this game is the buying and selling of items for profit. I don't agree, but more power to them. Let them enjoy that aspect of the game.

That aside I am in a large trading guild that gets a prime spot every week. All they ask from me is either 5000 in sales or participate in one raffle. They have several with varying amounts needed to get a ticket. That same guild also runs dungeons, does pledges and end game events.

The social guild I am in gets a vendor almost every week. We have over 400 in the guild but probably only fifty or less are really active with guild events and less than twenty donate towards getting a vendor. We get one in an obscure spot when we can and to tell the truth things sell there about as well as they do in the prime spot if you list for same prices.

I would like the game to remember from vendor to vendor what I am looking for so I don't have to every time select again. Other than that little inconvenience I have no problem with having to hunt some for what I want. Beats grinding for it a lot of the time. Craglorn for a couple of hours (or more) for Nirn or fifteen minutes at guild stores? Some choose the grind some choose to spend the gold. I think it is good to have the choice and don't mind at all that I can't get everything I want just by going to one place.

ComboBreaker88

darjobuno wrote: »

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

Lol. 30k? Really? Also Guild Traders are not instanced. They're cross faction. Large trade guilds require an incredible amount of dedication and organization. There will always be people who abuse any system that is in place.

The guild traders are not cross faction. If your in AD your not selling items in the DC version of Skywatch for example. Those are the gold and silver versions "Right Now" of the game. You are still only selling to your alliance.

When the game goes to One Tamriel. The gold and silver versions of those factions will go away and you will be playing the DC lands in the DC alliance. You will not be in Cadwell's gold or silver.

This means the AD traders, EP traders, and DC traders will be all competing against each other for the best kiosks. Also keep in mind that these trader experiences will vary depending upon your Mega Server.

But again I am done with the topic. I will sell my junk to vendors. Not worth the headache arguing about an easier version of trading.

I run a trading guild on xbox1 NA. The trader kiosks are cross faction. All alliances compete for the current existing kiosks. They are NOT seperated by instance or faction. For instance a trader in mournhold called "guild A" will be the same trader and guild kiosk for EVERY alliance instance.

ItsGlaive

darjobuno wrote: »

Been speaking with some folks who are in "LARGE Trading guilds". I am hearing rumors of the millions of gold they make each week and how this gold is being sold for real money. Yes we live in a capitalist society and if someone wants to make money off of lazy folks who don't want to really play the game so be it.

[...]

Now One Tamriel looms in the future. This will mean that there will not be different instances of GTs to use and the competition will only get worse.

Myself I refuse to support huge trade guilds who, "May or May not be" using the gold I help earn them to make real money off the game.

First off, the RMT aspect is the first I've personally heard of this, and I wouldn't put too much stock in it myself, it sounds very much like a rumour from people who're a bit bitter about the trading system.

That said, there ARE trading guilds that demand ridiculous fees or sales amounts for membership. When I came back proper, along with ITC, I also applied to three other trade guilds. One asks for minimum 5k sales (fine), another asks for 10k (pushing it unless you're hammering out the dungeon and trial runs for gear, and the third asked for 100k (extortionate - cloud cuckoo land). So experiences vary, and some trade guilds - like any guild - are more reasonable than others. Still, I can understand why some go to such silly and extreme measures because the system we have now puts massive pressure on guilds to compete at sky-high prices.

On your second point - One Tamriel will make absolutely no difference. There is only one guild trader - regardless of phasing. If your guild successfully hires one, then it's yours across all faction phases of that location. So again, One Tamriel puts no additional pressure on guilds.

Honestly when the system was first announced I thought it was a great idea. I still do. But I think it's been poorly implemented. If it's a system that's staying - and all signs point to the fact it is - then it needs to be modified. Set up central trading districts - one in each alliance capital. Move all guild traders to this location and add in lots more of them. I'm envisioning a large two-storey building, with traders on each floor. That way there's still a number of different traders to compete against, but they're all in one spot allowing for ease of browsing.

AntMan100673

@darjobuno rather than giving up and selling to npc's why don't a few trusted members from your guild also join a guild with a trader. If they're selling all the excess stuff from your guild bank rather than just their own they should be able to meet any quota, afford any fees etc. You can sort out a split so they get some gold for their time and effort and the rest is deposited to your guild bank. This would raise funds for your guild so you can increase your own bid until you can afford your own trader, it would also give you the knowledge of what sells well at what prices.

darjobuno

darjobuno wrote: »

Yes I know there are a ton of Guild Trader posts already out there but I like my position heard.

1. We are a smaller guild of players who enjoy more than JUST selling goods.
2. You can only have 5 guilds and if your running a good guild you do not have time to involve yourself in other goings on.
3. The "successful" trade guilds have inactivity policies and sales quotas you must meet to stay in the guild. Not all of us can meet that criteria and would still like to sell our items.
4. If you attempt to find even the most remote trader to use as your guild trader 30k gold has become not even enough in the more populated alliances and you can not get a return on cost.
5. Your player base is continuing to grow and more of the "Large Trade Guilds" are taking over your guild trader location. So this condition that is taking place is only going to get worse.

I see it as a fairly simple issue with easy possible fixes.

Add more guild traders, perhaps in a "Trade District" so everyone can have a one stop shop and more guild traders are available for guilds to purchase.
This will cause more storage issues on the hard drives.
It will cause lag and bottle neck issues with servers.
It will put a lot of people in the same location at the same time, never a good idea.

Go to a global auction house scenario.
Players are afraid of undercutting and ruining the economy.
There will be the constant fighting about what is a fair price.
Most likely would be a whole drive devoted to just this purpose and may cause bottle necking as well.

Create consignments in existing vendor areas in each town. I like this idea the best. It allows you to sell area related items under the flags of the vendors so it is easy to find a store carrying what you want.
It is immersive way to fix the issue. Players are immersed in the culture of the town they are in and the vendors of the town.
The towns are already set up to accept heavier traffic flows on the system so bottle necking should be a non-issue.
Example: You can make it to where only the Enchanter sells consignment of enchanting items thus fixing the issue of "I have to look everywhere for what I want."
Sellers can sell items that are level dependent. Gear of level 10 being sold in a level 10 area.
You will be able to divide population up around the town instead of focused in one area to keep the "crowd casting" down to a minimum.

It is a great game and all great games have growing pains. Please don't let the pains go on too long.

Refreshing my original post so folks understand once again where I am coming from .

Also just so you know. I, Darjo, run A raffle, a Lotto, a weekly RP class, do daily assists with guild members, run a story line RP, do Dolmen runs, Dungeon runs, Pledges, Trials, and we have attempted to enjoy PvP as well, created a Website to go along with my guild that I also edit and keep up. Plus we have been attempting to get a trader for our guild and we have had to move all the way out to gold and silver. That is the AD ONLY versions of DC and EP to try to get an affordable GT. I do not have time to deal with the demands of trading guilds because I am working with my own guild and helping my members ENJOY the game and its content. The Guild Trading system only works for those "focused" on doing trading. Being a member of a trade guild is a whole lot different than "running" a guild. When you shift your focus to just maintaining a trade guild. You lose the enjoyment of the content of the game.

I have been in the 500+ trading guilds, and I know how "most" of them are. They are a trading guild only. They don't want to hear about an RP on the chat. They don't want people advertising for leveling runs. They only want trade information in and on their guild.

Also if you seriously read the idea about doing Vendor Consignments. It would fix all issues with trading including the issue with pricing, and finding the items your looking for. I am not looking for arguments I have spoken my piece about guild traders.

ItsGlaive

darjobuno wrote: »

darjobuno wrote: »

That is the AD ONLY versions of DC and EP to try to get an affordable GT.

I'm not sure why you persist with this idea, or where it comes from, but as we've all repeatedly said - Guild Traders are NOT instanced per faction. If you own it in one phase of the map, you own it in ALL phases of the map. Always have, always will. Put it to the test.

Master_Fluff

Xabien wrote: »

darjobuno wrote: »

darjobuno wrote: »

That is the AD ONLY versions of DC and EP to try to get an affordable GT.

I'm not sure why you persist with this idea, or where it comes from, but as we've all repeatedly said - Guild Traders are NOT instanced per faction. If you own it in one phase of the map, you own it in ALL phases of the map. Always have, always will. Put it to the test.

The only exception being Cyrodiil, but no "trade only" guilds would want to spend time taking/defending/retaking keeps and resources there.

darjobuno

Xabien wrote: »

darjobuno wrote: »

darjobuno wrote: »

That is the AD ONLY versions of DC and EP to try to get an affordable GT.

I'm not sure why you persist with this idea, or where it comes from, but as we've all repeatedly said - Guild Traders are NOT instanced per faction. If you own it in one phase of the map, you own it in ALL phases of the map. Always have, always will. Put it to the test.

If that is the case then EP in Riften is the place to be because no one bid on the Guild Trader there last week. Which I find difficult to believe considering no GT can be found in AD what so ever for a decent price.

ItsGlaive

darjobuno wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

darjobuno wrote: »

darjobuno wrote: »

That is the AD ONLY versions of DC and EP to try to get an affordable GT.

I'm not sure why you persist with this idea, or where it comes from, but as we've all repeatedly said - Guild Traders are NOT instanced per faction. If you own it in one phase of the map, you own it in ALL phases of the map. Always have, always will. Put it to the test.

If that is the case then EP in Riften is the place to be because no one bid on the Guild Trader there last week. Which I find difficult to believe considering no GT can be found in AD what so ever for a decent price.

Then I guess you've solved your problem - head to Riften. Glad I could help

Runefang

I find it surprising that an auction house idea is so looked down upon by the community. It works so well in most MMOs and is so much easier for a buyer to find the goods they're after than guild traders. Despite the fear mongering which people perpetuate on here there is no reason, outside of immersion, for not having an AH.

Prices will only get lower in a more competitive environment. Sure you do lose the chance of grabbing a really good deal by doing a lot of leg work but that's not advantageous to the vast majority of the player base.