Magicka Sorc discussion

Kyye

So I have been thinking really hard about what I should run as a Magicka Breton sorc, my main account, and my questions are should I go for high crit or high spell penetration.

I was running 5 piece Julianos and 3 piece Magnus. I haven't messed with jewellery so any advice is welcome.

Now with the gear changes I have to upgrade. What would be a good set up of the two damage focuses, and what gear to run for each.

Being Breton my pool isn't the greatest but I think focusing on recov would be most rewarding. Advice on this is needed.

EDIT: 125 CP

RebornV3x

Depends are you going to PVP or PVE more.
What I run for PVE for PVP I have no clue Ive been running this since my last build was completely thrashed this patch and I refuse to make new gear since I shouldn't have to till a level/gear cap increase.

2x Molag Kena 5x Julianos and 3x Willpower Jewelry which is really good
Molag Kena is a monster set so it might be hard to get so staying with 3 magnus/seducers on head, shoulders and weapon might be a good thing. You could always go 1 kena and 2x magnus/seducers if your having sustain issues
You'll want 2x infused on chest and leggings and divines on everything else, maximum magicka enchants on all gear.

spell penetration is great this patch so go with sharpened or nirnhoned on weapons for straight spell damage.

FriedEggSandwich

For pvp 5x seducer, 3x willpower, 2 torugs, 1x kena is working quite well for me atm. I stack spell pen with 30cp in the relevant tree (2000ish spell pen) and a sharpened staff (5000ish), plus whatever light armour gives you. 1 cost reduction glyph and 2 spell damage glyphs, with a spell damage enchant on my fire staff. For duels I switch out the 1x kena with 1x bloodspawn. I'm sure there are better setups for sorcs in DB but this is what I came up with on a budget. You can use 2x magnus instead of 2x torugs for a loss of about 100dmg on your frags tooltip but a gain of about 300 on your ward. You can also use 3x magnus but I ended up with 1900 regen with that setup, which is too much imo. I have 1700 regen currently which is enough with all the cost reduction.

I went the route of trying to tank up so as not to be so reliant on my ward, so I wear 2x heavy with 6x impen. Also I took vampirism for the added regen and reduced dmg below 50%hp. Seems to work. Stam regen is almost 700 with vampire, and then almost 900 with blood spawn on top. 37k max mag (no undaunted mettle) with ~2200 spell damage unbuffed. Doesn't sound like much but the spell pen helps, and I can take a load of damage and never run out of resources.

If I had kena shoulder and blood spawn helm (or vice versa, rather than 2 helms) I would totally try 5x seducer, 3x willpower, 1x kena, 1x blood spawn & 1x maelstrom fire staff. Not sure if this would be better as I would lose the spell damage enchant on my current staff, but it sounds good and I want to try it.

Kyye

Ok my gut was right, I don't like crit builds, been running a non vet nb crit build which I'll stick with cause that's a blast. Love raw damage though even on my NB. Thanks everyone. I'm a weekender so no monster sets only crafting

mrdaveqc

Well right now I'm running 5 julianos 1 Kena 2 torug and 3 will power same since ic ! All imp and let me tell you for pvp it's really really bad ! Vs any stamina user ...... I used to melt them now they just do so much damage and can vigor to full heal in less then 1 sec and also infinite dodge... Well if your a try hard guys. Go play a sorc but if you want to have a fair fight and some fun go play something else And let the try hard find a new build and way to play the sorc . I'm working on that

Minalan

mrdaveqc wrote: »

Well right now I'm running 5 julianos 1 Kena 2 torug and 3 will power same since ic ! All imp and let me tell you for pvp it's really really bad ! Vs any stamina user ...... I used to melt them now they just do so much damage and can vigor to full heal in less then 1 sec and also infinite dodge... Well if your a try hard guys. Go play a sorc but if you want to have a fair fight and some fun go play something else And let the try hard find a new build and way to play the sorc . I'm working on that

@mrdaveqc

It's been posted here a few times. The new DB sorc meta is sustain, sustain, and then more sustain. Your spell damage build is DEAD, and not coming back anytime soon. Keep it for PVE where it should still work in raids and pledges.

Try 5 piece Seducer, and 3 Magnus. Then toss at least one lower Magicka cost enchant on your jewelry. Take the atronach mundus stone, and put all of your green points (70 magician, rest Acranist). Don't put more than 60 points or so into Bastion, that's a waste for a six second shield. Instead spread the love to elemental defender and Hardy (40 each), start with Hardy first because it's survival against Stam builds. Under Mage, you want Magicka damage and erosion (spell penetration), the latter for those heavy armor builds. Stack max Magicka, Magicka cost reduction, and Magicka regen. Damage doesn't matter anymore.

Why? When you have mana, you can keep two wards up, spam healing ward, spam streak, spam rune prison or defensive rune, spam mines, spam attacks, etc. Your enemy just dodge-rolled five frags in a row? Fine, you can afford to shoot another ten. Keep it going.

Every fight is a resource war, in the TG patch it was a DPS race. Not anymore. It doesn't matter that your old build could land 2-3K higher frags, your new one can cast five times as many of them. You'll never win against a sustain build with a damage one unless you're amazing good or lucky. The other guy will just keep healing and shielding until you finish blowing your wadd.

PS: Make sure your destruction staff is sharpened. Between 5K sharpened, 5K concentration passive, and 5K of erosion, that 30K heavy armor tank is down to half of that.

AtrophyFX

I'll agree with you on bastion, no need. 3 seducer, 5 kags seems to be doing me right at the moment.

psychotic13

I run x5 Kagrenacs, x5 Clever Alchemist and x3 Willpower, not your usual sorc set up but it works for me. Buffed I have about 4.5k spell damage and 1.8k regen.

But I do have to sacrifice the resto staff for this build and rely on dark exchange.

psychotic13

Minalan wrote: »

mrdaveqc wrote: »

Well right now I'm running 5 julianos 1 Kena 2 torug and 3 will power same since ic ! All imp and let me tell you for pvp it's really really bad ! Vs any stamina user ...... I used to melt them now they just do so much damage and can vigor to full heal in less then 1 sec and also infinite dodge... Well if your a try hard guys. Go play a sorc but if you want to have a fair fight and some fun go play something else And let the try hard find a new build and way to play the sorc . I'm working on that

@mrdaveqc

It's been posted here a few times. The new DB sorc meta is sustain, sustain, and then more sustain. Your spell damage build is DEAD, and not coming back anytime soon. Keep it for PVE where it should still work in raids and pledges.

Try 5 piece Seducer, and 3 Magnus. Then toss at least one lower Magicka cost enchant on your jewelry. Take the atronach mundus stone, and put all of your green points (70 magician, rest Acranist). Don't put more than 60 points or so into Bastion, that's a waste for a six second shield. Instead spread the love to elemental defender and Hardy (40 each), start with Hardy first because it's survival against Stam builds. Under Mage, you want Magicka damage and erosion (spell penetration), the latter for those heavy armor builds. Stack max Magicka, Magicka cost reduction, and Magicka regen. Damage doesn't matter anymore.

Why? When you have mana, you can keep two wards up, spam healing ward, spam streak, spam rune prison or defensive rune, spam mines, spam attacks, etc. Your enemy just dodge-rolled five frags in a row? Fine, you can afford to shoot another ten. Keep it going.

Every fight is a resource war, in the TG patch it was a DPS race. Not anymore. It doesn't matter that your old build could land 2-3K higher frags, your new one can cast five times as many of them. You'll never win against a sustain build with a damage one unless you're amazing good or lucky. The other guy will just keep healing and shielding until you finish blowing your wadd.

PS: Make sure your destruction staff is sharpened. Between 5K sharpened, 5K concentration passive, and 5K of erosion, that 30K heavy armor tank is down to half of that.

I beg to differ with what you call the 'meta' my sorc has high spell damage and has no trouble taking people out? How much sustain do you think you even need?

Minalan

psychotic13 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

mrdaveqc wrote: »

Well right now I'm running 5 julianos 1 Kena 2 torug and 3 will power same since ic ! All imp and let me tell you for pvp it's really really bad ! Vs any stamina user ...... I used to melt them now they just do so much damage and can vigor to full heal in less then 1 sec and also infinite dodge... Well if your a try hard guys. Go play a sorc but if you want to have a fair fight and some fun go play something else And let the try hard find a new build and way to play the sorc . I'm working on that

@mrdaveqc

It's been posted here a few times. The new DB sorc meta is sustain, sustain, and then more sustain. Your spell damage build is DEAD, and not coming back anytime soon. Keep it for PVE where it should still work in raids and pledges.

Try 5 piece Seducer, and 3 Magnus. Then toss at least one lower Magicka cost enchant on your jewelry. Take the atronach mundus stone, and put all of your green points (70 magician, rest Acranist). Don't put more than 60 points or so into Bastion, that's a waste for a six second shield. Instead spread the love to elemental defender and Hardy (40 each), start with Hardy first because it's survival against Stam builds. Under Mage, you want Magicka damage and erosion (spell penetration), the latter for those heavy armor builds. Stack max Magicka, Magicka cost reduction, and Magicka regen. Damage doesn't matter anymore.

Why? When you have mana, you can keep two wards up, spam healing ward, spam streak, spam rune prison or defensive rune, spam mines, spam attacks, etc. Your enemy just dodge-rolled five frags in a row? Fine, you can afford to shoot another ten. Keep it going.

Every fight is a resource war, in the TG patch it was a DPS race. Not anymore. It doesn't matter that your old build could land 2-3K higher frags, your new one can cast five times as many of them. You'll never win against a sustain build with a damage one unless you're amazing good or lucky. The other guy will just keep healing and shielding until you finish blowing your wadd.

PS: Make sure your destruction staff is sharpened. Between 5K sharpened, 5K concentration passive, and 5K of erosion, that 30K heavy armor tank is down to half of that.

I beg to differ with what you call the 'meta' my sorc has high spell damage and has no trouble taking people out? How much sustain do you think you even need?

Well, let's be honest here. You have 4500 spell damage for that sweet 15 second window. For the other 45 second though, Clever Alchemist kind of 'meh'.

Your sustain looks good, I combined that with cost reduction though, because I like solo play and 1vX. When you're on your lonesome, or with a small group of three, it's hard on the resources. I get my spell damage from max Magicka, but my build still has around 3K.

psychotic13

Minalan wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

mrdaveqc wrote: »

Well right now I'm running 5 julianos 1 Kena 2 torug and 3 will power same since ic ! All imp and let me tell you for pvp it's really really bad ! Vs any stamina user ...... I used to melt them now they just do so much damage and can vigor to full heal in less then 1 sec and also infinite dodge... Well if your a try hard guys. Go play a sorc but if you want to have a fair fight and some fun go play something else And let the try hard find a new build and way to play the sorc . I'm working on that

@mrdaveqc

It's been posted here a few times. The new DB sorc meta is sustain, sustain, and then more sustain. Your spell damage build is DEAD, and not coming back anytime soon. Keep it for PVE where it should still work in raids and pledges.

Try 5 piece Seducer, and 3 Magnus. Then toss at least one lower Magicka cost enchant on your jewelry. Take the atronach mundus stone, and put all of your green points (70 magician, rest Acranist). Don't put more than 60 points or so into Bastion, that's a waste for a six second shield. Instead spread the love to elemental defender and Hardy (40 each), start with Hardy first because it's survival against Stam builds. Under Mage, you want Magicka damage and erosion (spell penetration), the latter for those heavy armor builds. Stack max Magicka, Magicka cost reduction, and Magicka regen. Damage doesn't matter anymore.

Why? When you have mana, you can keep two wards up, spam healing ward, spam streak, spam rune prison or defensive rune, spam mines, spam attacks, etc. Your enemy just dodge-rolled five frags in a row? Fine, you can afford to shoot another ten. Keep it going.

Every fight is a resource war, in the TG patch it was a DPS race. Not anymore. It doesn't matter that your old build could land 2-3K higher frags, your new one can cast five times as many of them. You'll never win against a sustain build with a damage one unless you're amazing good or lucky. The other guy will just keep healing and shielding until you finish blowing your wadd.

PS: Make sure your destruction staff is sharpened. Between 5K sharpened, 5K concentration passive, and 5K of erosion, that 30K heavy armor tank is down to half of that.

I beg to differ with what you call the 'meta' my sorc has high spell damage and has no trouble taking people out? How much sustain do you think you even need?

Well, let's be honest here. You have 4500 spell damage for that sweet 15 second window. For the other 45 second though, Clever Alchemist kind of 'meh'.

Your sustain looks good, I combined that with cost reduction though, because I like solo play and 1vX. When you're on your lonesome, or with a small group of three, it's hard on the resources. I get my spell damage from max Magicka, but my build still has around 3K.

Well, I don't think of it as a 15 second window, but more 33% uptime as my build excels when using potions so it's up as much as it can be. But I'm still using Kagrenacs and willpower with 3 spell damage enchants so even when alchemist is not 'up' i still have decent damage.

I'm curious as to what your buffed up stats are? If you focus on sustain then do you just keep your shields up and pressure on the enemy constantly until they perish?

I also Primarly play solo so anything that can help me improve my build I appreciate, I've already spent a lot of time making this build, as I use dark exchange that also helps a lot with sustain, I never run into issues with that.

Last thing, how much health do you run with? As I'm using alchemist and Kagrenacs that gives me 3 health bonuses so I'm at around 25k health

Kyye

Oh my, checking this at school and TL:DR just yet. I'm glad I started a good discussion, hopefully it's peaceful!

Minalan

psychotic13 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

mrdaveqc wrote: »

Well right now I'm running 5 julianos 1 Kena 2 torug and 3 will power same since ic ! All imp and let me tell you for pvp it's really really bad ! Vs any stamina user ...... I used to melt them now they just do so much damage and can vigor to full heal in less then 1 sec and also infinite dodge... Well if your a try hard guys. Go play a sorc but if you want to have a fair fight and some fun go play something else And let the try hard find a new build and way to play the sorc . I'm working on that

@mrdaveqc

It's been posted here a few times. The new DB sorc meta is sustain, sustain, and then more sustain. Your spell damage build is DEAD, and not coming back anytime soon. Keep it for PVE where it should still work in raids and pledges.

Try 5 piece Seducer, and 3 Magnus. Then toss at least one lower Magicka cost enchant on your jewelry. Take the atronach mundus stone, and put all of your green points (70 magician, rest Acranist). Don't put more than 60 points or so into Bastion, that's a waste for a six second shield. Instead spread the love to elemental defender and Hardy (40 each), start with Hardy first because it's survival against Stam builds. Under Mage, you want Magicka damage and erosion (spell penetration), the latter for those heavy armor builds. Stack max Magicka, Magicka cost reduction, and Magicka regen. Damage doesn't matter anymore.

Why? When you have mana, you can keep two wards up, spam healing ward, spam streak, spam rune prison or defensive rune, spam mines, spam attacks, etc. Your enemy just dodge-rolled five frags in a row? Fine, you can afford to shoot another ten. Keep it going.

Every fight is a resource war, in the TG patch it was a DPS race. Not anymore. It doesn't matter that your old build could land 2-3K higher frags, your new one can cast five times as many of them. You'll never win against a sustain build with a damage one unless you're amazing good or lucky. The other guy will just keep healing and shielding until you finish blowing your wadd.

PS: Make sure your destruction staff is sharpened. Between 5K sharpened, 5K concentration passive, and 5K of erosion, that 30K heavy armor tank is down to half of that.

I beg to differ with what you call the 'meta' my sorc has high spell damage and has no trouble taking people out? How much sustain do you think you even need?

Well, let's be honest here. You have 4500 spell damage for that sweet 15 second window. For the other 45 second though, Clever Alchemist kind of 'meh'.

Your sustain looks good, I combined that with cost reduction though, because I like solo play and 1vX. When you're on your lonesome, or with a small group of three, it's hard on the resources. I get my spell damage from max Magicka, but my build still has around 3K.

Well, I don't think of it as a 15 second window, but more 33% uptime as my build excels when using potions so it's up as much as it can be. But I'm still using Kagrenacs and willpower with 3 spell damage enchants so even when alchemist is not 'up' i still have decent damage.

I'm curious as to what your buffed up stats are? If you focus on sustain then do you just keep your shields up and pressure on the enemy constantly until they perish?

I also Primarly play solo so anything that can help me improve my build I appreciate, I've already spent a lot of time making this build, as I use dark exchange that also helps a lot with sustain, I never run into issues with that.

Last thing, how much health do you run with? As I'm using alchemist and Kagrenacs that gives me 3 health bonuses so I'm at around 25k health

With structured entropy, it's about 22-23K health in Cyrodiil, more with the emperor buff. It's enough not to get one shotted. It also depends though on if I'm using surge or structured entropy. Entropy gives a very nice buff, where surge gives a better consistent heal.

And yes, that's exactly it. Keep the pressure up until that ultimate clicks, then use it. I stack healing ward and hardened ward, which always keeps health topped up. I spam defensive rune and mines for my special ganker friends and bow users.

I used to run a spell damage build, but stopped doing so when I always seemed to be screwed for mana in a fight. Sure you can cause harm, but when the other guy dodges or blocks 80% of it, where does that leave you? Just hitting all of your buffs takes off almost a fifth of your Magicka, and then you need to fight AND rebuff.

Build details are in @makkir video below, I'm running basically the same thing as Makkir except I prefer mage's wrath and overload instead of greater storm atronach and elemental drain. They both work.

You can see how to play the build, basically you never have to worry about how much a spell costs, or running out of mana between pots.

https://youtu.be/C9BlHsJDy1c

psychotic13

Minalan wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

mrdaveqc wrote: »

Well right now I'm running 5 julianos 1 Kena 2 torug and 3 will power same since ic ! All imp and let me tell you for pvp it's really really bad ! Vs any stamina user ...... I used to melt them now they just do so much damage and can vigor to full heal in less then 1 sec and also infinite dodge... Well if your a try hard guys. Go play a sorc but if you want to have a fair fight and some fun go play something else And let the try hard find a new build and way to play the sorc . I'm working on that

@mrdaveqc

It's been posted here a few times. The new DB sorc meta is sustain, sustain, and then more sustain. Your spell damage build is DEAD, and not coming back anytime soon. Keep it for PVE where it should still work in raids and pledges.

Try 5 piece Seducer, and 3 Magnus. Then toss at least one lower Magicka cost enchant on your jewelry. Take the atronach mundus stone, and put all of your green points (70 magician, rest Acranist). Don't put more than 60 points or so into Bastion, that's a waste for a six second shield. Instead spread the love to elemental defender and Hardy (40 each), start with Hardy first because it's survival against Stam builds. Under Mage, you want Magicka damage and erosion (spell penetration), the latter for those heavy armor builds. Stack max Magicka, Magicka cost reduction, and Magicka regen. Damage doesn't matter anymore.

Why? When you have mana, you can keep two wards up, spam healing ward, spam streak, spam rune prison or defensive rune, spam mines, spam attacks, etc. Your enemy just dodge-rolled five frags in a row? Fine, you can afford to shoot another ten. Keep it going.

Every fight is a resource war, in the TG patch it was a DPS race. Not anymore. It doesn't matter that your old build could land 2-3K higher frags, your new one can cast five times as many of them. You'll never win against a sustain build with a damage one unless you're amazing good or lucky. The other guy will just keep healing and shielding until you finish blowing your wadd.

PS: Make sure your destruction staff is sharpened. Between 5K sharpened, 5K concentration passive, and 5K of erosion, that 30K heavy armor tank is down to half of that.

I beg to differ with what you call the 'meta' my sorc has high spell damage and has no trouble taking people out? How much sustain do you think you even need?

Well, let's be honest here. You have 4500 spell damage for that sweet 15 second window. For the other 45 second though, Clever Alchemist kind of 'meh'.

Your sustain looks good, I combined that with cost reduction though, because I like solo play and 1vX. When you're on your lonesome, or with a small group of three, it's hard on the resources. I get my spell damage from max Magicka, but my build still has around 3K.

Well, I don't think of it as a 15 second window, but more 33% uptime as my build excels when using potions so it's up as much as it can be. But I'm still using Kagrenacs and willpower with 3 spell damage enchants so even when alchemist is not 'up' i still have decent damage.

I'm curious as to what your buffed up stats are? If you focus on sustain then do you just keep your shields up and pressure on the enemy constantly until they perish?

I also Primarly play solo so anything that can help me improve my build I appreciate, I've already spent a lot of time making this build, as I use dark exchange that also helps a lot with sustain, I never run into issues with that.

Last thing, how much health do you run with? As I'm using alchemist and Kagrenacs that gives me 3 health bonuses so I'm at around 25k health

With structured entropy, it's about 22-23K health in Cyrodiil, more with the emperor buff. It's enough not to get one shotted. It also depends though on if I'm using surge or structured entropy. Entropy gives a very nice buff, where surge gives a better consistent heal.

And yes, that's exactly it. Keep the pressure up until that ultimate clicks, then use it. I stack healing ward and hardened ward, which always keeps health topped up. I spam defensive rune and mines for my special ganker friends and bow users.

I used to run a spell damage build, but stopped doing so when I always seemed to be screwed for mana in a fight. Sure you can cause harm, but when the other guy dodges or blocks 80% of it, where does that leave you? Just hitting all of your buffs takes off almost a fifth of your Magicka, and then you need to fight AND rebuff.

Build details are in @makkir video below, I'm running basically the same thing as Makkir except I prefer mage's wrath and overload instead of greater storm atronach and elemental drain. They both work.

You can see how to play the build, basically you never have to worry about how much a spell costs, or running out of mana between pots.

https://youtu.be/C9BlHsJDy1c

I've noticed a lot of people using structured entropy as of late, as i already can achieve 25k health in cyrodil I don't feel it necessary to take a slot on my front bar, I run surge on my back back, I personally prefer it not just for the heals but it lasts longer and you can buff up before entering combat. Sometimes I'll use inner light for might of the guild passive.

I don't use a resto though, so I stack hardened ward and dampen magic for a huge shield. As I don't use a resto I have S&B on my back bar and use dark exchange to heal, thus also giving me magicka I also never run out of resource with that and the 1.8k regen.

I use defensive rune and mines on my overload bar, as I find them more situational abilities.

But this isn't a pure spell damage build, I have more health and resistance then most sorcs, am able to maintain my resources and still can reach high damage when needed. The cost for this is the loss of the resto staff, but I've learned to live without it and heal other ways.

Makkir

Using structured entropy for me personally boils down to things other than the health increase:
-It does dmg over time
-It procs Might of the Guild (mages guild passive)
- slotting it gives you 2% magicka regen over 2%spell power from slotting surge

psychotic13

Makkir wrote: »

Using structured entropy for me personally boils down to things other than the health increase:
-It does dmg over time
-It procs Might of the Guild (mages guild passive)
- slotting it gives you 2% magicka regen over 2%spell power from slotting surge

But if you're running inner light you can get the might of the guild proc anyway, and the same bonuses. The DoT isn't even worth mentioning it's garbage

I suppose it saves a slot and kills 2 birds with 1 stone if what you want it for is might of the guild and the major buff without running inner light.

I may give it a try though, I guess I can't really have an opinion on what's better without Trying it myself!

bardx86

psychotic13 wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

Using structured entropy for me personally boils down to things other than the health increase:
-It does dmg over time
-It procs Might of the Guild (mages guild passive)
- slotting it gives you 2% magicka regen over 2%spell power from slotting surge

But if you're running inner light you can get the might of the guild proc anyway, and the same bonuses. The DoT isn't even worth mentioning it's garbage

I suppose it saves a slot and kills 2 birds with 1 stone if what you want it for is might of the guild and the major buff without running inner light.

I may give it a try though, I guess I can't really have an opinion on what's better without Trying it myself!

Ya but it takes 2 slots to get the same effect a entropy. I personally don't believe it should take an ultimate to kill someone but negate is fun.

psychotic13

bardx86 wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

Using structured entropy for me personally boils down to things other than the health increase:
-It does dmg over time
-It procs Might of the Guild (mages guild passive)
- slotting it gives you 2% magicka regen over 2%spell power from slotting surge

But if you're running inner light you can get the might of the guild proc anyway, and the same bonuses. The DoT isn't even worth mentioning it's garbage

I suppose it saves a slot and kills 2 birds with 1 stone if what you want it for is might of the guild and the major buff without running inner light.

I may give it a try though, I guess I can't really have an opinion on what's better without Trying it myself!

Ya but it takes 2 slots to get the same effect a entropy. I personally don't believe it should take an ultimate to kill someone but negate is fun.

Well not necessarily the same effect, cause if you ran inner light and surge you also get 5% max magicka from inner light and the ability to reveal NBs, and you get the heals and 2% increased damage from surge, while being able to buff up and empower from stealth and the effect lasting longer.

Although if you only want the major buff and empower, then I can understand that people would use it to save a slot. (And some people like the health bonus from entropy as sorcs need a bit more health now)

And I agree that it shouldn't take an ultimate to kill someone, that's why I like to have decent damage aswell as sustain so I can keep the pressure on, I like to use my ulti when it's like 1v3.

How is negate out of curiosity? I've never used it so I'm curious as to how much damage it deals or how much it heals?

bardx86

Agreed but what are you giving up for that slot? Also when you switch bars you lose that bonus. Ive tried it but trying to manage 2 different buff to achieve the same thing as entropy to me is to much and slow, i mean we can die in less that a second. 5% magic is not going to win or lose a pvp battle in my mind. Guess it come down to play style I just find it slow and cumbersome. BTW immovable pots with detect is better than inner light for NB's and last longer.

I think negate is amazing. I normally run with a DK and we have it down. He goes in with flight then goes into aoe root and I drop an healing negate on them. Killed groups of folks with just 2 people. Super fun as well just watching them not be able to do anything, good laughs all around.

bardx86

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

For pvp 5x seducer, 3x willpower, 2 torugs, 1x kena is working quite well for me atm. I stack spell pen with 30cp in the relevant tree (2000ish spell pen) and a sharpened staff (5000ish), plus whatever light armour gives you. 1 cost reduction glyph and 2 spell damage glyphs, with a spell damage enchant on my fire staff. For duels I switch out the 1x kena with 1x bloodspawn. I'm sure there are better setups for sorcs in DB but this is what I came up with on a budget. You can use 2x magnus instead of 2x torugs for a loss of about 100dmg on your frags tooltip but a gain of about 300 on your ward. You can also use 3x magnus but I ended up with 1900 regen with that setup, which is too much imo. I have 1700 regen currently which is enough with all the cost reduction.

I went the route of trying to tank up so as not to be so reliant on my ward, so I wear 2x heavy with 6x impen. Also I took vampirism for the added regen and reduced dmg below 50%hp. Seems to work. Stam regen is almost 700 with vampire, and then almost 900 with blood spawn on top. 37k max mag (no undaunted mettle) with ~2200 spell damage unbuffed. Doesn't sound like much but the spell pen helps, and I can take a load of damage and never run out of resources.

If I had kena shoulder and blood spawn helm (or vice versa, rather than 2 helms) I would totally try 5x seducer, 3x willpower, 1x kena, 1x blood spawn & 1x maelstrom fire staff. Not sure if this would be better as I would lose the spell damage enchant on my current staff, but it sounds good and I want to try it.

I actually tried 5 heavy but damage was to low and survivability still wasn't that much better. I also settled on 2 heavy, not sure why anyone wouldn't run 2 heavy after DB, also no undaunted. I then run 3-4 impen depending on how i feel that day. I run about 38k magic and 2600 SD with fire staff. Damage is pretty good still get 13k frags in pvp. Started to use daining poisons but I'm not sure if thats better than the SD glyph yet.

psychotic13

bardx86 wrote: »

Agreed but what are you giving up for that slot? Also when you switch bars you lose that bonus. Ive tried it but trying to manage 2 different buff to achieve the same thing as entropy to me is to much and slow, i mean we can die in less that a second. 5% magic is not going to win or lose a pvp battle in my mind. Guess it come down to play style I just find it slow and cumbersome. BTW immovable pots with detect is better than inner light for NB's and last longer.

I think negate is amazing. I normally run with a DK and we have it down. He goes in with flight then goes into aoe root and I drop an healing negate on them. Killed groups of folks with just 2 people. Super fun as well just watching them not be able to do anything, good laughs all around.

Well currently I'm not even using inner light, but when I do decide to run it I give up defensive posture, like I said in previous posts I don't use a resto, and for this to excel I also use potions of lingering health for the 30% vitality which will be up 100% of the time as I also use alchemist. To further my healing I also have 10% in blessed and quick recovery and am even thinking of swapping out the Atronach Mundus for the ritual.

For my build personally, surge is better for that reason, more healing, I will try entropy to see what I think, but at the moment I'm not overly sure it would be the best option for my build in paticular.

bardx86

psychotic13 wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Agreed but what are you giving up for that slot? Also when you switch bars you lose that bonus. Ive tried it but trying to manage 2 different buff to achieve the same thing as entropy to me is to much and slow, i mean we can die in less that a second. 5% magic is not going to win or lose a pvp battle in my mind. Guess it come down to play style I just find it slow and cumbersome. BTW immovable pots with detect is better than inner light for NB's and last longer.

I think negate is amazing. I normally run with a DK and we have it down. He goes in with flight then goes into aoe root and I drop an healing negate on them. Killed groups of folks with just 2 people. Super fun as well just watching them not be able to do anything, good laughs all around.

Well currently I'm not even using inner light, but when I do decide to run it I give up defensive posture, like I said in previous posts I don't use a resto, and for this to excel I also use potions of lingering health for the 30% vitality which will be up 100% of the time as I also use alchemist. To further my healing I also have 10% in blessed and quick recovery and am even thinking of swapping out the Atronach Mundus for the ritual.

For my build personally, surge is better for that reason, more healing, I will try entropy to see what I think, but at the moment I'm not overly sure it would be the best option for my build in paticular.

Intersting. BTW great thread and love the feedback. I also tried to make healing build and maybe i didn't take it far enough. This is a S&B build I gather? I's also put points in Blessing and quick recovery to try it out. Whats your main heal then?

bardx86

bardx86 wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Agreed but what are you giving up for that slot? Also when you switch bars you lose that bonus. Ive tried it but trying to manage 2 different buff to achieve the same thing as entropy to me is to much and slow, i mean we can die in less that a second. 5% magic is not going to win or lose a pvp battle in my mind. Guess it come down to play style I just find it slow and cumbersome. BTW immovable pots with detect is better than inner light for NB's and last longer.

I think negate is amazing. I normally run with a DK and we have it down. He goes in with flight then goes into aoe root and I drop an healing negate on them. Killed groups of folks with just 2 people. Super fun as well just watching them not be able to do anything, good laughs all around.

Well currently I'm not even using inner light, but when I do decide to run it I give up defensive posture, like I said in previous posts I don't use a resto, and for this to excel I also use potions of lingering health for the 30% vitality which will be up 100% of the time as I also use alchemist. To further my healing I also have 10% in blessed and quick recovery and am even thinking of swapping out the Atronach Mundus for the ritual.

For my build personally, surge is better for that reason, more healing, I will try entropy to see what I think, but at the moment I'm not overly sure it would be the best option for my build in paticular.

Intersting. BTW great thread and love the feedback. I also tried to make healing build and maybe i didn't take it far enough. This is a S&B build I gather? I's also put points in Blessing and quick recovery to try it out. Whats your main heal then?

Maybe show me your skills setup?

Minalan

Lately I've only been running surge. Its better for solo play and ganking because you can pre cast it from stealth. Plus I like having streak and hardened ward on my main bar. The surge heal is also a little better than the entropy dot.

With ice comet on the front, and radiant Mage light on the back, I still keep those guild Magicka bonuses.

FriedEggSandwich

psychotic13 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

mrdaveqc wrote: »

Well right now I'm running 5 julianos 1 Kena 2 torug and 3 will power same since ic ! All imp and let me tell you for pvp it's really really bad ! Vs any stamina user ...... I used to melt them now they just do so much damage and can vigor to full heal in less then 1 sec and also infinite dodge... Well if your a try hard guys. Go play a sorc but if you want to have a fair fight and some fun go play something else And let the try hard find a new build and way to play the sorc . I'm working on that

@mrdaveqc

It's been posted here a few times. The new DB sorc meta is sustain, sustain, and then more sustain. Your spell damage build is DEAD, and not coming back anytime soon. Keep it for PVE where it should still work in raids and pledges.

Try 5 piece Seducer, and 3 Magnus. Then toss at least one lower Magicka cost enchant on your jewelry. Take the atronach mundus stone, and put all of your green points (70 magician, rest Acranist). Don't put more than 60 points or so into Bastion, that's a waste for a six second shield. Instead spread the love to elemental defender and Hardy (40 each), start with Hardy first because it's survival against Stam builds. Under Mage, you want Magicka damage and erosion (spell penetration), the latter for those heavy armor builds. Stack max Magicka, Magicka cost reduction, and Magicka regen. Damage doesn't matter anymore.

Why? When you have mana, you can keep two wards up, spam healing ward, spam streak, spam rune prison or defensive rune, spam mines, spam attacks, etc. Your enemy just dodge-rolled five frags in a row? Fine, you can afford to shoot another ten. Keep it going.

Every fight is a resource war, in the TG patch it was a DPS race. Not anymore. It doesn't matter that your old build could land 2-3K higher frags, your new one can cast five times as many of them. You'll never win against a sustain build with a damage one unless you're amazing good or lucky. The other guy will just keep healing and shielding until you finish blowing your wadd.

PS: Make sure your destruction staff is sharpened. Between 5K sharpened, 5K concentration passive, and 5K of erosion, that 30K heavy armor tank is down to half of that.

I beg to differ with what you call the 'meta' my sorc has high spell damage and has no trouble taking people out? How much sustain do you think you even need?

Depends how you like to fight. I've just switched from a spell damage build (5x kags) to a sustain build (5x seducer). My spell damage build had 3.6k fully buffed (destro/resto) with weapon enchant proc, and I had no trouble taking people out as you say. But as soon as I was outnumbered in any way I would run oom very quickly, resulting in death. With the sustain build I can keep fighting until my incoming damage becomes greater than I can deal with, I never run out of resources and this is preferable to me than being able to burst down 2 players and then die or hide. So you need sustain until your preferred play style doesn't cause you to run out of resources. It's easier to stack spell pen this patch so, considering ability cost has gone up, you might as well give up some spell damage for cost reduction/regen. But if high damage is still working for you then that's great.

psychotic13

bardx86 wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Agreed but what are you giving up for that slot? Also when you switch bars you lose that bonus. Ive tried it but trying to manage 2 different buff to achieve the same thing as entropy to me is to much and slow, i mean we can die in less that a second. 5% magic is not going to win or lose a pvp battle in my mind. Guess it come down to play style I just find it slow and cumbersome. BTW immovable pots with detect is better than inner light for NB's and last longer.

I think negate is amazing. I normally run with a DK and we have it down. He goes in with flight then goes into aoe root and I drop an healing negate on them. Killed groups of folks with just 2 people. Super fun as well just watching them not be able to do anything, good laughs all around.

Well currently I'm not even using inner light, but when I do decide to run it I give up defensive posture, like I said in previous posts I don't use a resto, and for this to excel I also use potions of lingering health for the 30% vitality which will be up 100% of the time as I also use alchemist. To further my healing I also have 10% in blessed and quick recovery and am even thinking of swapping out the Atronach Mundus for the ritual.

For my build personally, surge is better for that reason, more healing, I will try entropy to see what I think, but at the moment I'm not overly sure it would be the best option for my build in paticular.

Intersting. BTW great thread and love the feedback. I also tried to make healing build and maybe i didn't take it far enough. This is a S&B build I gather? I's also put points in Blessing and quick recovery to try it out. Whats your main heal then?

Well my build isn't really a healing build as such, I can reach 4.5k spell damage fully buffed, have 25k health and just under 40k Magicka (could reach 40k with inner light)

My main heal is dark exchange, on its own it may not be enough for some builds. That's why I use potions to increase my healing by 30% on top of blessed and quick recovery, if I'm playing with a friend who's a tank he can also use the guard ability which gives me a further 8% healing and I may even try adding the ritual Mundus cause dark exchange gives plenty of magicka also so my 1.8k recovery may not be needed.

I was even thinking of changing to argonian in the update for even more healing! I'll loose 7% max magicka and the 9% recovery though, so if I did that I'd keep the Atronach Mundus. Argonian may fit my build well though because I use potions and everytime I pop one it'd give the 12% resource to all stats, plus the 9% max health and resistance to poison and disease to help against Stam builds.

Yeah I run destro/S&B, cause I run S&B my resistance can be around 20k buffed in light armor, with my big health pool for a sorc and shields I can be pretty tanky. I use either one of the defensive posture morphs on that bar, so I can either heal when hit or reflect, and people never really expect the reflect from a sorc.

I run x5 kags (4 armor and destro) x5 alchemist (3 armor and S&B) and x3 willpower with SD enchants.

My skills setup is as follows:

Destro
Crushing Shock
Crystal Fragments
Endless Fury
Hardened Ward
Dark Exchange
Ice Comet

S&B
Surge
Dampen Magic
Curse
Streak
Defensive Posture (Either Morph)

Overload

On my overload bar I also have;
Boundless storm
Daedric mines
Rune cage
and my shields, I think these are more situational so not needed as much as the other abilites.

Makkir

You guys wont find a one build fits all type thing here. Were all used to it, me especially coming from WoW. You find something that works with your playstyle and you build around it. If surge works for you, great. I play only small scale 1vX so I prefer Entropy. @psychotic13 you can watch both my build videos (1 is pre-db dual wield build) for some 1vX play. I post them to give players a direction, but it's certainly not an end all.

psychotic13

Makkir wrote: »

You guys wont find a one build fits all type thing here. Were all used to it, me especially coming from WoW. You find something that works with your playstyle and you build around it. If surge works for you, great. I play only small scale 1vX so I prefer Entropy. @psychotic13 you can watch both my build videos (1 is pre-db dual wield build) for some 1vX play. I post them to give players a direction, but it's certainly not an end all.

Yeah I'll check them out man, like you said there's not one build that fits all, and depends a lot on how you play. My build has its weaknesses I'm not going to deny that, but I don't agree with the majority who constantly complain about sorcs being dead because of a shield nerf, because really I haven't even noticed it, in PvP your shields rarely last longer than that if you're in combat anyway.

Kyye

Can't wait to get home an play around. Great info here guys!

Kyye

Alright. Gonna update when i finish the final tweaks put some thought into this