Stealth

darjobuno

Quick blurb about my feelings on this after playing since the early start.

Stealth while great for hiding in PvP and sneaking across PvE has absolutely no use in combat. It will get you 1 critical attack and a 4 second stun. After that you can not re-enter stealth to do anything else with it. If it is not going to be re-usable in combat then the Nightblade skill tree needs to have "Usable Skills" added to it's skill line.

Bottom line on this is either make it to where you can re-enter stealth from an invisibility potion or from the shadow cloak skill, (eliminating aggro) or change the skills for Nightblade.

cdebaca

@ZOS_JanS

notimetocare

Nothing is wrong with stealth. How are you going to hide midfight....

darjobuno

notimetocare wrote: »

Nothing is wrong with stealth. How are you going to hide midfight....

The essence of the skill Shadow Cloak states "Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible for 2.5 secs"
There is even a lore book in game talking about the the ability to become invisible.
The Potion of invisibility states Vanish for X seconds.

That is how you hide mid-fight.

And your missing the point of the post. It's not make it possible for me to hide mid-fight. It's if your not going to let me hide mid-fight using what's already available to me then replace those redundant skills with something that is more useful to the class.

Shadow Cloak and Veiled Strike are not viable unless you can re-enter a crouched position. 2.5 secs is not enough time to get behind someone to used Veiled Strike's full effectiveness when using them together.

Those are active skills on the same skill tree. The 1st and 2nd skills respectfully.

Eliminate the first two skills effectiveness out of any class tree and see how many people raise a stink.

The only people not complaining are the ones who use shadow cloak with their vampire, but the class is Nightblade not Vampireblade.

GreenSoup2HoT

If you fail to kill someone you will be stuck in combat for awhile. I'd like to know what determines who is out of combat. Say a ganker goes in for a kill then run's away, if you do not hit that person again for more then 15 seconds, in my books you should be out of combat.. but in eso if you fail a gank, you can be in-combat for minutes.

If you really want to capitalize on the stealth aspect of this game, its a kill or be killed world. Once you kill someone, do not attack anyone else and try to slip away and re-stealth. If you attack someone then try and slip away you may be stuck in-combat for a long long time.

Azalin76

My biggest issue with stealth is that it is very rare to find mobs that are not facing you and if they are in a large group then at least one will be facing you so it makes it nearly impossible to get in with a stealth attack.

Plus not to mention if a frog sees you then it breaks your stealth and you are screwed. They really need to take that away from stray animals.

darjobuno

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

If you fail to kill someone you will be stuck in combat for awhile. I'd like to know what determines who is out of combat. Say a ganker goes in for a kill then run's away, if you do not hit that person again for more then 15 seconds, in my books you should be out of combat.. but in eso if you fail a gank, you can be in-combat for minutes.

If you really want to capitalize on the stealth aspect of this game, its a kill or be killed world. Once you kill someone, do not attack anyone else and try to slip away and re-stealth. If you attack someone then try and slip away you may be stuck in-combat for a long long time.

I do love that idea GreenSoup2HoT, however, If I attack something from hiding with a bow for instance, and re-enter stealth before the arrow strikes the target, should I not still be considered in stealth?

If a sniper is hidden in foliage out of view and eliminates a target while no other enemies are able to see the attack. Shouldn't the remaining enemies have to LOOK for the sniper and not just automatically know where they are?

That is also a large part of the quandary of this issue, because it does not matter if the rest of the mob was behind a boulder once you one shot the one on the same side of the boulder as you the rest come running after you. Even though there was no line of sight.

GreenSoup2HoT

@darjobuno Ooo i see what you saying, thats an AI issue. This is not Far Cry 3 for example. In PvP its possible to snipe someone out and you can re-stealth without people tracking you like the AI in this game. However AI in this game are so easy to kill i think its a none issue.

darjobuno

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

However AI in this game are so easy to kill i think its a none issue.

Try going into a Public Dungeon by yourself without a heal. Or a Delve in Cyrodiil by yourself and try to dodge the mobs. I can walk through either one with my Tanked Sorc. Healer. But try it wearing leather armor as a Nightblade using just a bow. I am not saying using a Nightblade Siphoner. I personally do not like playing Vampirisk type characters. I am talking a good old fashioned roguish archer. Which is what I do like to play.

You will die on a very regular basis. Why? You can't blame the build because the classes are supposed to be "Balanced". So my answer is in the Shadow Skills you have two primary skills that can not be used the way they are meant to be used.

I watch the other classes run all over the place gathering large mobs to kill and grind. I am sure you have seen this as well. How many times have you seen a Nightblade doing this?

Other classes work very well in groups because their bonuses are found in toe to toe and AOE.

The Nightblade does their most damage when they are alone because they can do their primary attack from hiding. Try being a Nightblade in a group dungeon and using your primary form of attack from stealth. It will get you killed because you either have to run ahead of the group to get your bonuses. Or you flash into the middle of the pile and the tank can not pull enough aggro before you get munched upon.

Only people I see doing anything as a Nightblade anymore are the ones doing Thieves Guild DLC and Assassin's Guild DLC, and that is for the extra sneaking ability across crowded areas not for combat.

Active Skills are meant to assist in combat.

Toc de Malsvi

darjobuno wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

However AI in this game are so easy to kill i think its a none issue.

Try going into a Public Dungeon by yourself without a heal. Or a Delve in Cyrodiil by yourself and try to dodge the mobs. I can walk through either one with my Tanked Sorc. Healer. But try it wearing leather armor as a Nightblade using just a bow. I am not saying using a Nightblade Siphoner. I personally do not like playing Vampirisk type characters. I am talking a good old fashioned roguish archer. Which is what I do like to play.

You will die on a very regular basis. Why? You can't blame the build because the classes are supposed to be "Balanced". So my answer is in the Shadow Skills you have two primary skills that can not be used the way they are meant to be used.

I watch the other classes run all over the place gathering large mobs to kill and grind. I am sure you have seen this as well. How many times have you seen a Nightblade doing this?

Other classes work very well in groups because their bonuses are found in toe to toe and AOE.

The Nightblade does their most damage when they are alone because they can do their primary attack from hiding. Try being a Nightblade in a group dungeon and using your primary form of attack from stealth. It will get you killed because you either have to run ahead of the group to get your bonuses. Or you flash into the middle of the pile and the tank can not pull enough aggro before you get munched upon.

Only people I see doing anything as a Nightblade anymore are the ones doing Thieves Guild DLC and Assassin's Guild DLC, and that is for the extra sneaking ability across crowded areas not for combat.

Active Skills are meant to assist in combat.

You should be using draining shot the heal is huge and it cc's your target, you could also be using marked target and mark 1 of the guys you are about to engage then burst him down. You could also be using vigor although judging from your comment I doubt you are high enough rank to get it. Dying to NPC's in delves is 100% player error.

TARAFRAKA

I. Just. Can't. Even.

darjobuno

[/quote]
You should be using draining shot the heal is huge and it cc's your target, you could also be using marked target and mark 1 of the guys you are about to engage then burst him down. You could also be using vigor although judging from your comment I doubt you are high enough rank to get it. Dying to NPC's in delves is 100% player error.[/quote]

Please pay attention to the whole post. I have no desire to us the vampirisk abilities. I believe you should be able to play a pure rogue character.

Other classes you can use any one of the skill trees to build a style of character and be viable. The Shadow tree of the Nightblade is NOT a viable class build.

Repeating myself again.. I can build characters that I can close my eyes and walk through the game with. However you can not build a rogue archer (without any of that vampire crap) and be a viable character.

I would just like to see a viable pure rogue character. I would like to see either stealth mean something, or the shadow tree with usable skills.

You can tell by the skills in the Nightblade trees it was meant to play the part for a ROGUE class. Yet you can not use it successfully playing as just a rogue. You can not gain surprise while grouped with others and you can not re-enter stealth even when attacking beyond the distance of detection of stealth.

I do not need people to tell me a way around the handicap. I know how to go around the handicap of the class. I would like to once again:

See the Shadow Skill tree with two "usable" skills in place of shadow cloak, and veiled strike if we are not going to be allowed to re-enter hiding after using shadow cloak or invisibility potion period. That is the statement. That is the purpose of this thread nothing else.

DocFrost72

I hate to say it, but this is silliness. What if I want to play a drunken brawler who fights shirtless with his fists? There's nothing in the game that caters to that, so the game must be broken right?

Vigor is not a vampire ability. It is golden in color and could be considered see higher god power or something healing you.

Slot dual wield daggers on your back bar and run blood craze and the morph of flurry that heals you for damage done. Dual daggers is roguish.

To be viable you have to make concessions. That doesn't mean drop your whole idea, but be willing to adapt, or willing to pay a LOT for repairs...

Toc de Malsvi

DocFrost72 wrote: »

I hate to say it, but this is silliness. What if I want to play a drunken brawler who fights shirtless with his fists? There's nothing in the game that caters to that, so the game must be broken right?

Vigor is not a vampire ability. It is golden in color and could be considered see higher god power or something healing you.

Slot dual wield daggers on your back bar and run blood craze and the morph of flurry that heals you for damage done. Dual daggers is roguish.

To be viable you have to make concessions. That doesn't mean drop your whole idea, but be willing to adapt, or willing to pay a LOT for repairs...

Well after reading his reply I have come to the conclusion this is not silliness but rather a troll. Do not feed the Trolls.

darjobuno

DocFrost72 wrote: »

I hate to say it, but this is silliness. What if I want to play a drunken brawler who fights shirtless with his fists? There's nothing in the game that caters to that, so the game must be broken right?

Vigor is not a vampire ability. It is golden in color and could be considered see higher god power or something healing you.

Slot dual wield daggers on your back bar and run blood craze and the morph of flurry that heals you for damage done. Dual daggers is roguish.

To be viable you have to make concessions. That doesn't mean drop your whole idea, but be willing to adapt, or willing to pay a LOT for repairs...

Well Doc, If I wanted to be a duel wielding AOE Death Dealer. I would not be using Nightblade as it has virtually no AOE to the class. I would be playing a Sorcerer using Lightning form, Lightening Splash, Steel Tornado, Dark Deal (for healing), Surge, and Meteor to generate big death.

That is not what I want to play however. I would like to play a rogue archer assassin. Emphasis on being as close to a one shot kill artist as possible. The ability to do this however is NIXED by not being able to re-enter stealth without totally disengaging a mob and then re-entering the battle.

I have been here for the whole game since the start. I know the builds. I know what they do. I also know what they "DO NOT DO." Again that is what this thread is about. Thank you for your input.

TARAFRAKA

darjobuno wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

I hate to say it, but this is silliness. What if I want to play a drunken brawler who fights shirtless with his fists? There's nothing in the game that caters to that, so the game must be broken right?

Vigor is not a vampire ability. It is golden in color and could be considered see higher god power or something healing you.

Slot dual wield daggers on your back bar and run blood craze and the morph of flurry that heals you for damage done. Dual daggers is roguish.

To be viable you have to make concessions. That doesn't mean drop your whole idea, but be willing to adapt, or willing to pay a LOT for repairs...

Well Doc, If I wanted to be a duel wielding AOE Death Dealer. I would not be using Nightblade as it has virtually no AOE to the class. I would be playing a Sorcerer using Lightning form, Lightening Splash, Steel Tornado, Dark Deal (for healing), Surge, and Meteor to generate big death.

That is not what I want to play however. I would like to play a rogue archer assassin. Emphasis on being as close to a one shot kill artist as possible. The ability to do this however is NIXED by not being able to re-enter stealth without totally disengaging a mob and then re-entering the battle.

I have been here for the whole game since the start. I know the builds. I know what they do. I also know what they "DO NOT DO." Again that is what this thread is about. Thank you for your input.

Lightning splash and former are magic abilities while the rest of what you named are stamina based abilities so based on that statement it's looking like if you did want to play a sorcerer you would again say the game is broken because you wouldn't be able to do enough damage specced into both mag/Stam to be able to even use the abilities you listed.
The shadow tree is one of the best in game, other classes envy it. And you're complaining.

darjobuno

TARAFRAKA wrote: »

Lightning splash and former are magic abilities while the rest of what you named are stamina based abilities so based on that statement it's looking like if you did want to play a sorcerer you would again say the game is broken because you wouldn't be able to do enough damage specced into both mag/Stam to be able to even use the abilities you listed.
The shadow tree is one of the best in game, other classes envy it. And you're complaining.

Okay I know you are just trying to argue for the sake to argue but take a look at dark conversion while at the base the restoration of health and magicka are even with stamina used, however morphed it returns twice the amount of magicka to stamina used. This allows me to use stamina for blocking and physical attacks and to supply me with more Magicka than what I would be as a pure caster, all the while healing me while casting it. Your argument has no legs to stand on.

This is not WoW. Feel free to cookie cut but don't expect me to.

Thanks for posting : )

ZakuBeta

I play the stealth sniper/dual wield rouge type character all the time. Use your range, the MOBs have a tether and can't go beyond a certain point. I snipe and kill one guy at max range, back up behind something, and stealth. It use to not work, but something happened recently, and now they lose track of me and go back to their starting area. Bosses with adds are impossible to do this to, so it will always be a fight. Groups coming in jack it up, but that is the problem with being a stalker in a world of A.D.D. people. The game rewards rushing through it, more than it does experiencing it.

darjobuno

ZakuBeta: Yes I had noted this in several areas as well. I have even seen more unconnected mobs in game. I do believe they are working on the issue. I have been after them about it for almost 2 years.

I just like to refresh my concerns with them now and again.

I am glad that there are others out there who recognize that the stealth is not what it could or should be.

Thanks for the post.