Why aren't the schools of magicka more affiliated with this game?

datgladiatah

I find it odd and awkward that, still to this day, the only way one can cast 'destruction' and 'restoration' spells are through staves when staves always had the theme of casting one particular spell unique to the staff or a common spell under charges to save a hero's magicka.

I realize tons of spells in the current classes already have similar key spells to those schools (night blade invisibility for illusion, destruction spells spread through all classes, conjuration for daedric summoning, etc.) but I think there are still plenty of options in all the schools to get over the redundancy.

For example, mysticism could have telekinetic and absorb stat/damage/resource abilities. Even though soul trap is in that school it doesn't need to move there. Illusion could bring back calm/fear/rally/fury, and bring back chameleon or muffle rather than just giving a pure invisibility skill for all classes. IMO they should probably just make destro and resto abilities into their selective school, rework staves to hold spell charges, and give an option to make some weapons scale off magicka (or make staves melee weapons but idk, I just don't see why magicka users can't use basic attacks without it *** over their dps). Alteration can use shielding spells, burden (probably not feather unless it only held pve use or gave major/minor expedition), and jump/levitation spells if they were properly balanced (such as being unable to cast spells during the duration of levitate, or having it have a very short duration with high magicka cost). Conjuration could have all the daedric minions that were left out of sorcerer, raise zombie/skeletons, and bound weapons.

I kind of just wrote this in hastily and in spurts, and this isn't really a "you need to take this suggestion seriously!" thread, but at the same time I'd like to hear what others think or see if they have any specific ideas themselves.

Parrotbrain

They were going to introduce a feature called spellcrafting back in 2014, where you could learn spells/skill lines based on the schools of magic. This idea was well liked by fans, but Zeni canned it when they went B2P and Konkle left the company as it wad his idea...

UltimaJoe777

The schools did not really become a thing until further in the timeline from ESO, which is the 2nd Era. As for what exists in ESO there is more than meets the eye.

Summon Storm Atronach is a Conjuration spell in TES5: Skyrim.
Bound Armor relates to the Bound Weapon spells in TES5: Skyrim.
Shadow Cloak is this game's version of Invisibility, which is an Illusion spell in TES5: Skyrim.
Mass Hysteria, a morph of Aspect of Terror, is basically Hysteria which is an Illusion spell in TES5: Skyrim.
Soul Trap is a Conjuration spell in TES5: Skyrim.
Magelight is an Alteration spell in TES5: Skyrim.
Equilibrium is an Alteration spell in TES5: Skyrim.

There are also more Destruction and Restoration spells from TES5: Skyrim beyond the Destruction Staff and Restoration Staff skill lines, such as Fire Rune and Sun Fire. Lore aside, the references are there.

datgladiatah

ESO takes place in the late 2nd era, and Galerion the Mystic is literally in the game. There's no way he couldn't be able to introduce that in a dlc/add on plot of some kind. He's a pretty big part of the main part as is.

There's just a lot of stuff missing. Even in Skyrim there were many spells missing from Morrowind/Oblivion, like sound, levitate, detect X, absorb stats, and like so many others. I feel like classes should have more thematic abilities rather than take from magical schools, so long as Galerion's existence can explain the formation of schools.

I think at the very least, to maintain the spellsword popularity of the TES games, that a spell line shouldn't be limited to holding a staff in your hand. I forgot to bring up that point in my main post.

Tryxus

uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Proposal:_Schools_of_Magic

In short, the mages from the Shad Astula academy in Morrowind were the ones who came up with the concept of dividing magic spells into the schools of magic as we know them during the 3rd and 4th era. The Mages Guild eventually adopted the schools, so they became more widespread.

datgladiatah

That's really interesting, I completely forgot about Thaumatergy in Daggerfall. But still that begs the question; did the Mages Guild organize spells into any cohesive list at all, or was it very incomplete or inconsistent before this change? As seen from the other games, schools of magicka actively get dropped and spells replaced into other similar schools all the time.

Also they have Shad Astula in the game but that's EP content. AND they still lorelol by acknowledging destruction and restoration schools through the staves. Weird.

Birdovic

@datgladiatah

Most likely you Forget about it because those spells were mixed with the Schools of magic.

But yeah I didnt think about Shad Astula at all and was wondering why we barely get introduced to "Masters" of Conjuration/Destruction/Alteration etc.
Everyone (NPC's) just did what they felt they were good at

phaneub17_ESO

It may not count, but there is a war going on so couldn't each respective factions be holding onto secrets of magic for their own forces exclusively? We're just the common folk, there's no way they would share that with us. More than likely it doesn't become well known magic to the public until the continent is united under one rule.

datgladiatah

It seems funny that when a world without much magickal theory suddenly has characters (that aren't just the Vestige) running around growing dragon scales, calling AEDRA for holy bound weapons, and using blood magic with very little previous lore that would suggest how they'd get these or why they'd lose popularity. Not really a complaint in terms of gameplay because I love a lot of the themes but I do wish they were specific to just the vestige.

With all that in mind though, it'd be nice to see some kind of in-the-making categorization created by Galerion or even some scholar from Shad Astula. It's just kind of sad to see the really unique spells from alteration, mysticism, etc. not see its use in a TES game.

Tryxus

datgladiatah wrote: »

It seems funny that when a world without much magickal theory suddenly has characters (that aren't just the Vestige) running around growing dragon scales, calling AEDRA for holy bound weapons, and using blood magic with very little previous lore that would suggest how they'd get these or why they'd lose popularity. Not really a complaint in terms of gameplay because I love a lot of the themes but I do wish they were specific to just the vestige.

With all that in mind though, it'd be nice to see some kind of in-the-making categorization created by Galerion or even some scholar from Shad Astula. It's just kind of sad to see the really unique spells from alteration, mysticism, etc. not see its use in a TES game.

Well, even without the schools of magic, people were still widely practicing several forms of magic: Dragonknights practice Akaviri battle magicks and Flame spells to emulate the Dov whereas Conjuration/Daedric Summoning was practiced by lone Sorcerers.

There's also the fact that knowledge can be lost over time. King Fahara'jad made a mention that no matter how powerful necromancers are, they're no match for the necromancers of the First Era. So it's possible that Shadow & Siphoning Magic were either lost to the ages or assimilated into an official school of magic when they became mainstream (Shadow = Illusion?)

datgladiatah

Shadow is kind of like a more advance illusion, it physically effects things where no TES game from what I've seen has illusion magic that damages directly... I think. So yeah it's in that archetype but it's so much more advance. I'd love to see an explanation for how someone can gain the power to summon a bound Aedric spear at almost all times though.

I'd also like ZoS to explain why physical spears couldn't be a weapon in this game

Xundiin

datgladiatah wrote: »

Shadow is kind of like a more advance illusion, it physically effects things where no TES game from what I've seen has illusion magic that damages directly... I think. So yeah it's in that archetype but it's so much more advance. I'd love to see an explanation for how someone can gain the power to summon a bound Aedric spear at almost all times though.

I'd also like ZoS to explain why physical spears couldn't be a weapon in this game

Shadow spells are illusion, siphoning spells where actually placed in Mysticism. if you dig through Morrowind and Oblivion spells they have a few transfer health spells in the Mysticism line. Skyrim put life drain (vampire spell) in destruction which is where it gets confusing.

datgladiatah

Yeah but again, no Illusion spells made physical changes. That's kind of against its definition. So twisting path, and that shadow strike attack thing, and creating images that actually do damage, they just do something far more physically complex than any current TES's illusion spell list. I'd say it's more like alteration because it effects physical reality. But yeah siphoning definitely has tendencies towards Mysticism.

Nerouyn

The basic idea is that what we know as the schools of magic from TES games didn't exist in the time of ESO but is about to be rediscovered and that's spellcrafting. Announced years ago. No ETA. They just keep dangling it.

See this reddit post for datamined info on spellcrafting.

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2xpn39/data_mining_spellcrafting_what_is_it_and_what_are/

Duiwel

@UltimateJoe777 I like how you think those skills come from Skyrim

Tryxus

datgladiatah wrote: »

Yeah but again, no Illusion spells made physical changes. That's kind of against its definition. So twisting path, and that shadow strike attack thing, and creating images that actually do damage, they just do something far more physically complex than any current TES's illusion spell list. I'd say it's more like alteration because it effects physical reality. But yeah siphoning definitely has tendencies towards Mysticism.

Not necessarily

Illusion can cause damage to a target, but it's always indirectly by affecting the target's mind. In the case of Shadow Image, it's by making them believe they are in pain. It's like having a cut on you hand for instance: if you focus on that cut or remember how you got cut in the first place, it'll more painful.

So yeah, imagine yourself getting shot by an arrow The Minor Maim bonus at the end of it is quite fitting then too.

Twisting Path or Refreshing Path then fall more along the lines of Morale spells, with Refreshing being a Courage spell (healing your allies on the path) or a Demoralize spell in the case of Twisting (hurting enemies, again in the way of making ppl believe they are in pain the moment they set foot on that path)

And then there's Concealed Weapon/Surprise Attack: invisibility, not for the caster but for a weapon he/she is carrying

So yeah, Shadow is in fact Illusion magic. But it does seem to be a bit more powerful and less subtle than in other games